Record firms sue allofmp3.com

Doctor J

Let's have a show of hands from all the heroes bringing down the music industry, how many of you stole cd's, or tapes, or vinyl from shops before downloading became available? I mean, it's still the nasty record industry and we all know the savage markup they put on each cd, that's before those bastards in HMV and the likes add their chunk. The artist is getting sod all royalties anyway, so it's ok to steal cd's too, right?

Or is it just ok to download cos it doesn't feel like stealing when you don't have to sneak something physical out of the shop?

stevejazzx

Doctor J wrote:

Fair enough, but tell me this, why is it ok to take music without paying from an established act? At what point does an act be termed established and why doesn't it matter whether they get paid from that point? How is an artist not getting paid for their work going to help the artist? There is a nasty status quo present which isn't going to be changed by artists not getting paid. Yes, the business side of the whole thing is disgusting but I've yet to see someone explain how stealing music is going to change that. There are plenty of acts who'd be lucky to sell even 25,000 copies of their albums whose music appears on these sites. They may not top the download charts but at that level a little means quite a lot. Stealing from artists isn't going to change the music industry.

I take your points and you are correct. I would essentially agree with all those points with the possible exception that while I believe that 'illegal downloading' is wrong, it's hard to rest all the blame for act upon those carrying out the downloading. There seems to be a lot problems which have contributed to the current situation and until the whole thing is clearly fairly and consistently regualted I can't anything changing.

stevejazzx

Doctor J wrote:

Let's have a show of hands from all the heroes bringing down the music industry, how many of you stole cd's, or tapes, or vinyl from shops before downloading became available? I mean, it's still the nasty record industry and we all know the savage markup they put on each cd, that's before those bastards in HMV and the likes add their chunk. The artist is getting sod all royalties anyway, so it's ok to steal cd's too, right?

Or is it just ok to download cos it doesn't feel like stealing when you don't have to sneak something physical out of the shop?

But there is another facet to this as copyright doesn't just cover copying or downloading, it covers illegal/unauthorised lending, hiring, viewing for public performance etc. Ever lent a cd to friend? Had people over your house wathching a movie? Taped music from the radio? Or covered a piece of music without the consent of the owner in advance? All of those are technically illegal although to be fair in most instances (with the exception of covering music) a user can claim fair usage as a defense. The point is that the limitations being put on something legally purchased are becoming ridiculous. DRM is becoming more and more restrictive with the end result again I believe of causing more piracy. People will be fed up if they legally download a song or movie and then can't legally back it up/or store it because it embedded with copy restrictions.

Doctor J

I agree entirely. As I've said though, I can't see the logic behind stealing from the artist. It won't achieve anything other than making life harder for the people whose creativity we should be celebrating for making our lives a better place. We can all agree that the industry is geared so the artist makes the least as it is, so what good is downloading doing to anyone who loves music and wants bands to continue to create and release music? It's only human nature to take advantage of a situation, be it downloading for free or getting a band to sign an unfair contract, if you can get away with, chances are you'll go for it. In the case of allofmp3 getting taken to court, it's a matter of some people who, surely we can all agree, have done nothing positive for any of the artists whose work they sell and make money off and I can't see how them getting shut down is a bad thing. The legalised business is a different battle.

It's up to bands to start copping on and exploiting the avenues available for making a living off their music and realise they don't need the music business as much as the music business needs them. To do that though, they first need control of their music and they have no control with allofmp3 and their ilk. Why would your average punter pay a decent price for something they can get, no strings attached, for a paltry sum?

The Sparrow

Doctor J wrote:

Let's have a show of hands from all the heroes bringing down the music industry, how many of you stole cd's, or tapes, or vinyl from shops before downloading became available? I mean, it's still the nasty record industry and we all know the savage markup they put on each cd, that's before those bastards in HMV and the likes add their chunk. The artist is getting sod all royalties anyway, so it's ok to steal cd's too, right?

Or is it just ok to download cos it doesn't feel like stealing when you don't have to sneak something physical out of the shop?

That is ridiculous... Please link me to any judgement anywhere that has found allofmp3 illegal? Quite simply, stealing a CD is illegal whereas downloading from allofmp3 is LEGAL!

Here is the thing though, I would be perfectly happy downloading from whomever if I was charged a fair price and I then received full ownership of the music or content that I downloaded. Not like at the moment where record companies expect me to pay an exorbitant amount of money and then use DRM to completely restrict my use of what I have have just been ripped off for. Its the same as if I bought a book in Easons or wherever for a ridiculously high price but I was only able to read it inside an Easons store. If I buy something, I want to own it and do what it anything that I legally wish to.

Even if they only cut there price by half, I would download tracks for 50 cents a pop (which would still mean massive profit for them) if I had ownership of the music after I downloaded it. Otherwise it is a nonsense. Allofmp3 has been investigated lots of times by Russian prosecutors and not once have they been found guilty of breaching any law. SO please stop comparing allofmp3 to stealing. Downloading from P2P is illegal and wrong and so is stealing a CD. Downloading from allofmp3 is perfectly legal as far as I can see

stevejazzx

Well, we'll never own music entirely, only the artist should have that priviledge...in Princes case Warner bros. tried to take ownership of the masters to his music but he eventually got them. George Michael endured a massive court case with Sony for his. Another example of big corporations trying to litreally own everything. I think a fair compromise would be to let let people have full digital access to the media content.

As for allofmp3 being legal or not is a very tricky question. I recently visited a place in moscow called the garbuska. It is a shopping mall as big as dundrum shopping center. It is full of legal outlets like Sony, Aiwa, etc and retailers selling mobile phones and digital cameras etc. It is also jam packed full of stalls where people are openly selling(the place is patrioled by Russain Police) pirated wares of every nature. Everything from the very latest DVDs....I picked up a movie called 'the good Shepard' as part of my research /ahem/ that movie isn't even in cinemas over here yet. They were also selling every convieable piece of software you can imagine, from any CAD program you want to Vista Premium. The frightening thing is that media they sell has such good packaging to go along with it, an indication that htere is significant investment in the trade. You get a full dvd case with inlay etc. the good shepard cost just 150 rubels which is about 4 euro. i could have bought countless PC games(or xbox or even xbo360-burned onto dual layer discs fully packaged) for just 3 euro each. They even had one with fifa07 nhl 07 and nba 07 all on one dvddisc. It's Massive business in Russia.

More interstingly though there were stalls which had excellent packaging on thier products. They looked real but they were riduculously cheap. It turns out that these products (which accounted for about 5% of the store) were genuine to an extent. It was explained to me that there were licenses given to distributors to sell x amount of a certain product legally, a bulk license so to speak. A very fishy practice. Allofmp3 are doing more or less the same thing, except they are most probably not declaring their offical sales. They more than liklely have multiple bank accounts and pass money around to each. Accounts are closed monthly and reopend in other banks etc making a paper trail very difficult. In Russia noone goes out of business if they are friends of the administration. In the case of allofmp3 it would appear that the authorities have been very lenient on them to date indicating that someone involved has good connections, not necessarily the Russain mafia, in fact most likley not, more likley just a businessman with mafia/administration friends. if the matter gained significant international attention, enough to embarass Putins administration then allofmp3 would be gone tomorrow but such a thing is unlikley. As I said before big companies are happy to trade in the illegal mall which is the garbuska, so as long as it remains an undercurrent issue then the Russain government and big business will essentially just turn a blind eye to the whole affair.

another article about it
http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/7991.cfm

stovelid

Bullsh*t.

Provide evidence please or quit parroting vested record company interests.

Craig Murphy wrote:

they're then selling on their credit card details to crooks.

Do you work in the business?

Funny how you start bleating when piracy becomes a problem but had no problems with f*cking mugs like me having to pay through the nose for music since I was a kid.

Craig Murphy wrote:

When i contacted them about how OUR RELEASES got onto the sites