Do bigger wheels = less grip?

antodeco

Hi Folks,

Changed my 16" wheels to 17" wheels and have noticed a severe drop in grip. Could this be the tyre size or bad tyres? They are new wheels and tyres.

Thanks

colm_mcm

are you driving a jeep or a car? What size and brand did you change from/to?

BreadBoard

antodeco wrote:

Hi Folks,

Changed my 16" wheels to 17" wheels and have noticed a severe drop in grip. Could this be the tyre size or bad tyres? They are new wheels and tyres.

Thanks

Could it be weather related? I've noticed my car sliding a little more recently due to the icy weather.

antodeco

Ive had the tyres 3 months, and its always been there

Driving an 06 almera. Went from Nissan standard Dunlop 16's to Autogard 17's. If i accelerate in a straight line, it slips sideways fighting for grip. Its also kicked out on me a few times. Checked the pressure and get them re aligned, but still the same

colm_mcm

I've never heard of Autoguard tyres. maybe it's because they're not as good as Dunlop?

BreadBoard

antodeco wrote:

Ive had the tyres 3 months, and its always been there

Driving an 06 almera. Went from Nissan standard Dunlop 16's to Autogard 17's. If i accelerate in a straight line, it slips sideways fighting for grip. Its also kicked out on me a few times. Checked the pressure and get them re aligned, but still the same

Could be the tyres ... are they the same width as the 16's you had?

antodeco

Thats what I was thinking. I was thinking of changing the tyres and going for something slightly wider anyway (dune buggy look )

colm_mcm

I reckon the answer is in the brand you've got. I've noticed big differences in grip even between big name brands, This might be unfair, but I suspect the tyres you have now are cheapies

layke

To answer your question, yes.

Don't ask me the physics though. I've just heard it from a few people who I would consider reputable.

antodeco

Hmm!! The grip is considerably different on these. Whilst on the subject (sort of), is it possible to get wider tyres for a wheel?

colm_mcm

yeah, no problem getting wider tyres, but the profile of the tyre (the percentage of thickness of the sidewall to the width of the tyre) has to be reduced to prevent the outside radius of the tyre getting too big for the car. Also, too wide a tyre and you will scrub the arch liner on full lock.

greglo23

with a wider tyre you have less grip as the weight of the car is spread over a wider area. just look at the ice racers and snow tyres; they are really skinny tyres so the footprint of the tyre is smaller which gives more grip.
it looks to me that the cheapie tyres are your problem though. if you want serious grip get high end pirelli's. amazing grip but they dont last long :rolleyes:

antodeco

right so ill try wider tyres out the window then!! I do alot of driving, so dont want no squeaky tyres when i turn Id love a set of pirelli's but ill have them gone in around 2 weeks!! Any other advice on tyres?

Seth Brundle

never heard of Autoguard tyres but seemingly they are cheap high performance yokes from Pirelli. Where did you get them and what sales pitch were you given?

antodeco wrote:

Thats what I was thinking. I was thinking of changing the tyres and going for something slightly wider anyway (dune buggy look )

Your driveshafts, etc. may not be able for the extra strain.

antodeco wrote:

Hmm!! The grip is considerably different on these. Whilst on the subject (sort of), is it possible to get wider tyres for a wheel?

You can but they would probably be an unusual size and therefore more costly. What size are the new ones?

antodeco wrote:

Driving an 06 almera. Went from Nissan standard Dunlop 16's to Autogard 17's. If i accelerate in a straight line, it slips sideways fighting for grip. Its also kicked out on me a few times. Checked the pressure and get them re aligned, but still the same

What kicked out? The rear? If it slipping in a straight line then I would ditch them asap!

Hagar

Pirelli's on a fully loaded Citroen Dyane FTW.

antodeco

Probs the best idea! Just get new tyres. In this weather im noticing it alot more. Both front and back kick out. Went around a corner and the front slipped out, turned around a roundabout and the front just "drifted"!

fletch

greglo23 wrote:

with a wider tyre you have less grip as the weight of the car is spread over a wider area.

Bull****....perhaps in the wet/snow a narrower tyre is more favourable as it is less likely to aquaplane but in dry conditions, a wider tyre will most certainly provide more grip.

greglo23 wrote:

just look at the ice racers and snow tyres; they are really skinny tyres so the footprint of the tyre is smaller which gives more grip.

It gives them more grip as each tyre is exerting more pressure per square inch and therefor is better able to displace the snow

greglo23 wrote:

it looks to me that the cheapie tyres are your problem though.

Would definitely agree....my car is on cheapy tyres at the moment(bought it 2nd hand not so long ago) and the thing feels like its on ice skates! :eek:

311

I'm not an authorithy on cars or anything ,but I thought that there is certain tyres that have to go on one way.
If tyres are put on the wrong way ,what happens ?

greglo23

How can you seriously believe that the same weight spread over a wider area gives more pressure. in fact a wider tyre exerts less pressure because the weight is distributed over a greater amount of road. take the example of snowshoes. you can walk over loose snow wearing snowshoes where you would sink wearing boots. the same principle applies to tyres.

Blitzkrieger

_Brian_ wrote:

I'm not an authorithy on cars or anything ,but I thought that there is certain tyres that have to go on one way.
If tyres are put on the wrong way ,what happens ?

That's an interesting point. I took my father's car for it's NCT and the guy noticed that one of the tyres was on backwards. I had kinda noticed that the tail wanted to kick out when turning left. Maybe they did put them on backwards.

apeking

_Brian_ wrote:

I'm not an authorithy on cars or anything ,but I thought that there is certain tyres that have to go on one way.
If tyres are put on the wrong way ,what happens ?

I got myself 4 new alloys, bought the second hand so i went and tried fitting them myself, went to the garage two weeks later to get a puncture fixed and the lad told me my wheels were on the wrong sides.


I was wondering why i was sliding around all over the place in the rain, not a good idea, at all

fletch

_Brian_ wrote:

I'm not an authorithy on cars or anything ,but I thought that there is certain tyres that have to go on one way.
If tyres are put on the wrong way ,what happens ?

I'd say you'd notice quite a difference if you put these tyres on the wrong way around

Owen

I've 18's under my MINI, and they improved both grip, and ride quality. So no, larger wheels do not detract from Grip (Larger wheel, larger tyre, larger contact patch = more grip).

Iompair

It depends on the conditions, big wide tyres are best on dry smooth roads. On wet irish roads narrower tyres are better, less liable to aquaplane.

Anyway get a better set of rubber, Perrelli are good, I've got a set of bridgestones on now, way better then the goodyears I got with the car.

Barr

The width of a 16" could be the same as 17" so it may not even be down to the size
I used to run 16" Dunlops on my present car then changed these for a set of 18". The tyre that came with them was some cheap crap I never heard of. The car used to slide all over the place especially in the wet. Went back the following week and changed to Semperits and the handing is definately on a par if not better than the dunlop 16"

As said before its your tyre make thats giving you such poor grip.With a bigger alloy you'd want decent quality tyres

with a wider tyre you have less grip as the weight of the car is spread over a wider area. just look at the ice racers and snow tyres; they are really skinny tyres so the footprint of the tyre is smaller which gives more grip.

I'd have to disagree with this statement if this were the case why would'nt Formula 1 cars have skinnier tyres. They spent millions looking to gain a extra tenth and look at the width of those rear tryes!

Geek Nose

I just got all new 18" Pirelli Zeros on my XK8. When it's dry, the grip is amazing, but over the last few days I've noticed the back spinning out a bit on roundabouts & turns - obviously when it's icey or wet, and without even going that fast!
Wider tyres are much better in dry conditions, but worse in wet or ice. It's simple physics.

Avns1s

Geek Nose wrote:

Wider tyres are much better in dry conditions, but worse in wet or ice. It's simple physics.

This is exactly right.

Hagar

Barr wrote:

I'd have to disagree with this statement if this were the case why would'nt Formula 1 cars have skinnier tyres. They spent millions looking to gain a extra tenth and look at the width of those rear tryes!

F1 cars have are aerodynamically designed to exert downward force on the rear wheels to increase the traction. Hence the massive wings on the back.

My earlier post about the Citroen was based on a test Top gear did many years ago where they discovered to their amazement that the pressure exerted by a Citroen's tyres on the road per square inch was greater than a Porche simply beacuse of the very small footprint of the narrow tyres. However the Porche had more grip because it had more square inches of rubber in contact with the road surface albeit at a lower pressure, the sum of the pressure was greater.

Barr

F1 cars have are aerodynamically designed to exert downward force on the rear wheels to increase the traction. Hence the massive wings on the back

This is all ever well but his point was narrier tyres have more grip than wider ones.
By that logic an F1 car should be running on narrier tyres which is not the case, huge wing or not.

Barr

F1 cars have are aerodynamically designed to exert downward force on the rear wheels to increase the traction. Hence the massive wings on the back

This is all ever well but his point was narrier tyres have more grip than wider ones.
By that logic an F1 car should be running on narrier tyres which is not the case, huge wing or not.

Hagar

I heard you the first time.:D