Training to Dublin Marathon

gzoladz

Hi guys,

I have started training to participate in the Dublin Marathon 2007. I know it is still early but I need the time as it will be my first one.

I did a few 10k in the past and my mark is on the 56 minutes.

Today I did 15k in Phoenix park and it took me 1h50 min, jogging very smoothly all the way and carrying my backpack.

Although when I finished I was ok aerobic and muscles wise, I have two concerns:

1. Blisters. Hoy do you do with them? Got a few after 15k so I cant imagine what can happen after 42k.

2. Annoying pain on the outside of my left knee. Will something to help to support it and see how it goes.

Any advise would be appreciated, same if there is any other first timer who wants to share his experiences.

Cheers,
Gustavo

ZiggyStardust

Hi,
To avoid blisters, there are special socks with a double layer. The friction will then happen between these two layers and not between the sock and your feet. Not sure where you can get them, I got them in the states. You can also use 2 pairs of socks. Will do the same job.
As for the knee pain, I'm not too sure. I think it could be your IT band which there are a few stretches for.
Hope this helps.

m_s_nixon

you can get double layered socks in arnott's

Hard Worker

I am totally against those two layer socks myself. I think they are only a gimmick. The best socks are tactel or coolmax. They wick away the moisture from your feet. You can also help prevent blisters by using COMPEED. Compeed is like a second skin. It is possible that your shoes might be ill fitting also. If they are not comfortable they could be causing friction in certain areas.
There are many things that can cause knee pain. However, I would be willing to bet that your problem is your ITB. It can be easily corrected by a good sports therapist who could have it sorted after two treatments.

gzoladz

Thanks for the answers. I will investigate further on those options.
BTW, What is ITB?

Amazotheamazing

Firstly, good luck in the training, i'm in pretty much the same place, just did a 10k in 49 mins and hoping to build from here to the Dublin Marathon next October.

Secondly, re the knee pain, I lost about 3 years training due to mis-diaganosed knee problems, if it continues please, please, get it checked properly and get your stride and shoes checked also. While I don't know any good doctors/physio's in Dublin (where you seem to be based?) I can recommend Amphibian King in Bray for shoes, he does gait analysis and recommends the shoes you need. If there doesn't suit you, please, and I really mean this, get good advice when you buy shoes. I'd give you advice on your knee but frankly, the best (and imo only) thing to do is get it properly checked, one thing I found useful was to mark out where it was sore in black marker on the knee so when I went to a doctor I could point out exactly where the problem was. i know it sounds silly, but when you get to the doctor a simple inch higher or lower can make a difference (as I found out after 18 months of bad medical advice).

Whatever shoes you choose, (where-ever you buy them) are going to go through a lot with you, don't scrimp on them.

Anyhow, good luck in the training, lets hope we both get to line-out at the start of the marathon in 10 months.

quozl

I'd like to second everything Amazo just said. We can't diagnose you over a bulletin board, if it doesn't sort itself out very soon then get it checked out.

copacetic

as above get to physio on your knee, on blisters, make sure your shoes fit and avoid normal cotton socks, get some tightish running ones. i neve bothered with double layer socks. I use 'bodyglide' which is like vaseline but not as messy. You may get blisters during training but look after them with compeed as above and on the day of marathon protect your hells with compeed and carry a couple of spares...

gzoladz

Amazo, quozl, daveym, thanks for the advise. I am definitely watching closely my knee.
I will try 20k this weekend but and will wear my knee support (which in reality is a soft elastic band about 10cm wide, but I don't feel any pain when U wear it). I want to see how it responds.
Currently I have Asics runners (dont know the model, but there are on the entry level range). I am planning to upgrade them shortly and get the running socks.
Will check out the "bodyglide" too.
Cheers,
Gustavo

quozl

Gustavo remember that a more expensive asic runner may not be better for you than your current one. An expensive shoe meant for the wrong type of foot isn't going to help. If you can get to Amphibian King in bray it's well worth the trip. Otherwise do go to somewhere reliable. There aren't that many places in ireland that sell runners that i'd trust the staff for advice. So post up where you live and you may be able to get a good recommendation.

I like the double layered socks myself. I never get any blisters, even during the marathon - except on the tips of my 2nd toes, which is just because they're too long

gzoladz

This looks like it will be more difficult than expected. Did 20k today in 2h 35min, of which I walked the last 1.5k. I wore the knee support and it worked perfectly well as I didn't feel any pain in the knee at all.
But at this stage other problems are appearing (as expected being the first time I go into this distance):

- I got a bit of blood on my nipples. I imagine this will be resolved with a propoer running t shirt. My €3 Penneys doesn't seem to be addecuate

-How do you go in terms of eating/drinking during the race? Would you just drink normal water or any energetic drink? Would you eat anything at all?

Happy new year to all,
Gustavo

PS: Amphibian is really popular among runners, I think I will give it a try.

quozl

gzoladz wrote:

This looks like it will be more difficult than expected. Did 20k today in 2h 35min, of which I walked the last 1.5k. I wore the knee support and it worked perfectly well as I didn't feel any pain in the knee at all.
But at this stage other problems are appearing (as expected being the first time I go into this distance):

Careful you're not raising the distance too quickly. You'd not done over 10k until a week ago, right? There's plenty of time left, if you raise the mileage too steeply you're much more likely to injure yourself.

- I got a bit of blood on my nipples. I imagine this will be resolved with a propoer running t shirt. My €3 Penneys doesn't seem to be addecuate

I use clear, plastic surgical tape. A couple of euros from most chemists. It doesn't come off due to sweating. I'm also pretty much hair-free, so if you've a hairy chest then I think covering your nipples with vaseline is the standard approach. A proper running t shirt on it's own won't be enough, trust me

-How do you go in terms of eating/drinking during the race? Would you just drink normal water or any energetic drink? Would you eat anything at all?

I'd suggest trying some energy gels, I use high5 brand which some of the cycling stores sell. http://www.irishfit.com sells powerbar ones I think, they're also well regarded. The key thing is to try them out on some of your longer runs because they make a lot of people nausious. Which you don't want to discover in the middle of the marathon.
The dublin marathon puts on 3 stands with some gatorade in cups. That's not enough, so don't rely on it. Plan something else. Read the old dublin marathon thread to see what some people who don't like gels do. Whatever you do, drink lots of water. It's a very good idea on your longer runs, and it's no harm on the shorter ones.

John_C

A few tips from a (very) casual marathon runner:

Don't do too much too soon. The marathon is ages away. If you can nearly run 20k now you're well ahead of schedule. If you keep upping the distances you'll either wear yourself out or get sick of training before the summer even starts. The long summer evenings are for distance training not the cold winter days.

Put bandages or something on your nipples for any run over about 10 miles. A different shirt can help but tape or something is best.

But a kilo of glucose and mix some into water with a bit of orange or something for taste. It's a lot cheaper than paying a few euro per bottle of lucozade sport. That said, unless you like drinking it (personally I hate the stuff) there's no need to train yourself for that now with the race still far away.

Sign up for a half marathon to give you something to aim for in the short term. The connemarathon is on 1st April and might be a good idea.

gzoladz

Hi guys., thanks a lot for all this advice, it is very useful for me.
I know the jump from 10 to 15 and 15 to 20 in two weeks looks too much, but my intention was to measure myself as I had never run more than 10k. Now I have a better about how much I can run non-stop. I will stick to the 15-20km for the long runs over the next couple of months.
The tapes should resolve the nipples issue. I still need to buy the running socks for the blisters.
Will keep posting how my preparation evolves and I would like to read expriences of other first-timers.

run_Forrest_run

oh yes, the bleeding nipples (AKA runner's nipple) is nasty, I found if you apply some vaseline on the nipples that will reduce friction...vaseline is essential for long distance running...not very glamorous folks but who ever said long distance running was glamorous!

About drinking during the race, only drink what you have been drinking throughout your training. Find out what they will be offering on the day, I did the Dublin Marathon in 2005 and it was water and Gatorade so perhaps you should try out Gatorade in training to get your stomach used to it. When you reach miles 17-26.2 your stomach may get a little fragile so anything that you are not used to could spell trouble. Best of luck.

HardyEustace

Not being smart but are you sure that wearing a knee support is such a good idea? All you're doing is introducing another "foreign object" into your running. Wouldn't it be better to try and get your knee sorted out so that it works without the bandage?

You've loads of time to the marathon so make sure that you use it. I'm speaking from the voice of experience, haven't been able to run since the marathon due to my knees and itbs being bunched. However now using this time to solve the problem and learn what works for me in the future.

louthandproud

HardyEustace wrote:

Not being smart but are you sure that wearing a knee support is such a good idea? All you're doing is introducing another "foreign object" into your running. Wouldn't it be better to try and get your knee sorted out so that it works without the bandage?

You've loads of time to the marathon so make sure that you use it. I'm speaking from the voice of experience, haven't been able to run since the marathon due to my knees and itbs being bunched. However now using this time to solve the problem and learn what works for me in the future.

Hey there, I second that motion. It's quite possible your knee injury is due to your sudden increase in distance. You shouldn't add more than 10% per week on to your previous long run (as a rough rule of thumb ). And at that you shouldn't increase your distances for more than three weeks running. If you go to a physio and get it diagnosed he/she will probably say the same and also give you some excercises to balance out the muscle development in your legs. As some of the posts above also said I can't stress the importance of a correct diagnosis enough. The most sure fire way of failing to get to the starting line is to do too much too soon. I am speaking from experience. Anyway good look with the training.

gzoladz

Hi there, thanks for the advise. I have used the knee support for 7 years. My knee is generally ok but I start to feel some pain after 8km approx. I did have it checked when this started and the diagnosos what that the area were not strong enough so I should try to run without the band as much as I could.
I do that for shorter distances but when I know I will do +10k I use it.
I dont really want to start going through all the checks as it has been this way so long and I hasnt got worst. However, will keep it a close eye.

About the drinking, would you carry some yourself or you would just rely on what it is provided during the marathon? For those who do carry something, where do you carry it?

run_Forrest_run

I pack a few small packets of PowerBar Gel into my shorts...I used to carry little bottles in a holder strapped to the waist but I have stopped doing that, now I just rely on the drinks stations...so any marathon I'm doing I find out what will be available at the stations and how regular will they be.

When training I sometimes drive out along the route the night before and plant a few drinks along certain mile markers. I have often forgotten where I planted bottles so there are a few unopened bottles of Powerade along the roads between Passage West and Ringaskiddy in Cork if anyone gets thirsty!

Odysseus

Personally I always carry my own water for anything over a 10k, I just find it easier. I used to use a belt that tied around my waist, holding two water and also had a pouch I could put my mp3 as well as nuts, mars bars etc. However, I have rencently started using a camelbak, I got the 3lt one as I'm training for two ultras as well as a marathon in the Shara, so I will need plently of fluids, but the standard 1.5lt should suffice for a marathon. I can't recommend the camelbak enough, I wish I have gotton one years ago. I find its much easier to use, I'm taking more fluids in that just using a bottle, you don't really notice the weight, and it keeps the water cool.

quozl

If you don't mind me being nosey Odysseus, what pace do you do your training runs at? Do you find the camelpak bounces much when you're running? Doesn't your back get very sweaty?

I was thinking of getting one myself a while back, but was worried I'd not like it. Maybe I should re-consider.

Odysseus

quozl wrote:

If you don't mind me being nosey Odysseus, what pace do you do your training runs at? Do you find the camelpak bounces much when you're running? Doesn't your back get very sweaty?

I was thinking of getting one myself a while back, but was worried I'd not like it. Maybe I should re-consider.

No at all mate, fire away. I only have the camel back one month now, but I stick by my recommendation I'm that pleased with. As my next run is a marathon so far the longest I have done with it is 20k, but hope to do 30k this weekend. My pace at the moment is a nice easy pace 20k in about 1.40, I did 12k today in 58. I have'nt found that it bounces around, it fits me quite sungly. On the sweat thing I have'nt noticed that either, but the it hasn't been the warmest at the moment, so I have been running with a track suit top on. Hope that answers you questions.

quozl

Thanks Odysseus

gzoladz

Hi lads, I am back in training now after a Holidays break. Went for another 20k with a few changes based on yours and other's suggestions.

-Bleeding nipples. Used vaseline and a running tshirt and it worked perflectly well. Neither blood nor irritation whatosoever.

-I've worn for first time upgraded Asics and running socks (single layer). The blisters issue has considerably improved but it is not ideal yet. Will add vaseline to see if I can achieve a non blisters run.

-Hydratation. This is off course no secret but it is amazing how helpful the energy drinks are. Took 1 bottle of Lucozade sport and 1 bottle of water. Next time I will go for 2 bottles of Lucozade (or Powerade or similar).

I carried the bottles in my backpack. Although I am used to run with it, I know it is not ideal. At the moment my options are a camel backpack or one of those belts where you can hook the bottles.

Any advise?

Thanks,
Gustavo

Odysseus

gzoladz wrote:

I carried the bottles in my backpack. Although I am used to run with it, I know it is not ideal. At the moment my options are a camel backpack or one of those belts where you can hook the bottles.

Any advise?

Thanks,
Gustavo

Hi mate,

I have used both in the past and I have to say using a camelbak is the best thing I have ever done. I even use it on my short runs now. I find that I now drink more as compared to using a bottle, and the camelbak keeps your water cool as well. I use the three ltr one, but if you don't intent to go beyond marathon distance maybe the 1.5ltr would suit you better.

copacetic

also have a look at the north face dogfish and the berghaus bladdered packs, they are small ones, designed for running/activity sports. I have both and they are pretty good.
I prefer the north face, but the berghaus has a handy extending net for helmets if you cycle..

Riggser

Can anyone recommend a running club in Dublin that is good at marathon race training for all levels of fitness?

Odysseus

Can anyone help me with this question, I have never done a marathon in fancy dress, and as I only do one charity run a year, [it becomes a pain chasing people for money], I'm thinking of going all out and doing Dublin in fancy dress. I think I can remember reading that the organisers have baned this due to the risk of heat exchaustion but be honest I can't remember if I seen anyone last year.

copacetic

its not as popular in dublin as in london but there is always a fair few fancy dress guys in dublin..

Odysseus

Cheers mate, thanks for that, I did'nt want to go to the trouble of getting one made, only to find out it was'nt allowed.

damianmckeever

odysseus- yip I can confirm I was overtaken by someone dressed up as scooby doo or something. Hard to take when you're giving your all and someone else is messing in fancy Dress and they're still beating you.:D

Best of luck with it.

quozl- I've been training with a camelback thing for the past 2 months and have found it pretty good. I'm doing an Ironman in July so the plan was Camelback for the run but I'm also trying the Saucony Fuel Belts which carry 4 8oz bottles around a belt. It's ok but you have to make sure you're balanced when you're doing it i.e don't finish the two 8oz bottles on your left side and leave the two 8oz bottles on your right side full, kind of throws you off balance. Trial and error I suppose! some people swear by the fuel belts, have to say the Camelback isn't half as cumbersome as it looks.