Oil burner not burning

Jim79

Hi,

I have a Firebird heating system with a Riello burner. its been installed for over a year and worked fine until Christmas eve. Basically the power was switched on as normal and the green LED illuminated but no burner sound. The only sound was that of a liquid in motion.

The pressure gauge beside the firebird is at zero.

The only thing that changed is i bled the radiators the night before.A number of them had air inside.

should the pressure gauge be at zero when the heat is off?
thanks, (chilly) jim 79.

Avns1s

Sounds like the pressure has been lost from your system. Is it a system with a pressure vessel. If so you'll have to find the water inlet point and allow water from the mains into the system up to about 1 bar.

Jim79

no there is no vessel that i can see.
there is a pump near the burner which has a bypass pipe. the bypass pipe has a tap on it. i was thinking about opening that a little hoping that it would introduce some pressure.

thanks for your quick response.

c ashelmore

If I understand you correctly the Riello burner is not firing at all,but the circulation pump is working- sound of water flowing.Check to see if the lockout light is showing on the control box on burner.If it is press it once.

Jim79

HI Cashel,

You are correct.
I have checked that lock out light and it is not illuminated.
Also i have checked that there is sufficient oil in the tank.

thx, J79

c ashelmore

Ok. Is power actually reaching the burner? A simple phase tester will verify this, at bottom of control box.If no power check for loose wire, faulty thermostat etc. If there is power at burner,not gone to lockout,then there is a fault with burner itself.

JamesM

Jim79 wrote:

HI Cashel,

You are correct.
I have checked that lock out light and it is not illuminated.
Also i have checked that there is sufficient oil in the tank.

thx, J79

Check the reset button on the boiler thermostat.
Jim.

mobby

JamesM wrote:

Check the reset button on the boiler thermostat.
Jim.

I have a Firebird boiler and there is a reset button on the thermostat.
You may have to unscrew a small cover to see the reset button. best of luck

Avns1s

Jim79 wrote:

HI Cashel,

You are correct.
I have checked that lock out light and it is not illuminated.
Also i have checked that there is sufficient oil in the tank.

thx, J79

Push in the lockout button anyway and tell us what, if anything, happens when you do.

If you have no pressure vessel, then you will have a small tank in your attic close to your main tank. Check that there is water in that.

JamesM

Avns1s wrote:

Push in the lockout button anyway and tell us what, if anything, happens when you do.

If you have no pressure vessel, then you will have a small tank in your attic close to your main tank. Check that there is water in that.

If you have a lot of air in the system, you may need to top it up - but the immediate problem is probably the thermostat reset button.
Jim.

Jim79

Avns1s, sorry i gave you wrong information regarding the pressure vessel. there is a small dark red cylinder on the first floor beside the large hotwater cylinder.

I pressed the reset button on the burner but it has made no difference. i went into the attic and there are two relatively large black plastic water tanks. They are both filled with water.

i closely inspected the pressure gauge today and i can see that it is at 1 bar. i am not sure if there has been a change or if the first time i was not careful enough when i read it. But it is at 1 bar now.

James M&Mobby
Regarding the thermostat. there is a red plastic circular device onto one of the copper pipes coming out of the firebird. is that the thermostat? should i remove the red plastic and look for the reset switch there?

Many thanks for your help.

c ashelmore

No,that sounds like the pressure release valve.(if you turn the red knob water will come out briefly) The thermostat should be on the boiler itself with a dial showing what temperature the boiler is set at.

JamesM

c ashelmore wrote:

No,that sounds like the pressure release valve.(if you turn the red knob water will come out briefly) The thermostat should be on the boiler itself with a dial showing what temperature the boiler is set at.

Yes the thermostat is on the boiler. It has a dial with numbers. Right beside the dial is a small cap over a button. Unscrew the cap and press the button.
Jim.

mobby

JamesM wrote:

Yes the thermostat is on the boiler. It has a dial with numbers. Right beside the dial is a small cap over a button. Unscrew the cap and press the button.
Jim.

As the man said.

Avns1s

Jim79, don't suppose you could post pictures of the front of your boiler and the lads might point out the reset button on the thermostat and also post a pic of "the Red plastic circular device" on the copper pipe. I do agree (depending on the way your system is wired) that the reset button being reactivated will probably solve your problem.

If you've 1 bar of pressure, that should be fine.

Let us know how you get on.

Jim79

JamesM wrote:

Yes the thermostat is on the boiler. It has a dial with numbers. Right beside the dial is a small cap over a button. Unscrew the cap and press the button.
Jim.

I am away from the house at the moment but i recall the area on the boiler that you are writing about as i recall the number 5 is displayed on the dial.
i am hoping to be back tomorrow but it could be saturday before i get it done. i will try and get some photos also.

thanks everyone you have been very helpful.

Jim79

Hey, i have attached 5 images.

i have a close up of the burner. i removed a plastic cap and there is a black circular rubber underneath but no button(see burner image).

also i have attached an image of the pressure gauge and the red cap at the top.(Pressure reading is now zero bar.)
In the unidentified image i dont know what that is but its power cable comes out of the firebird.

What do you think?

Avns1s

Wonder why your pressure has dropped again to zero. Do you know where your system is filled, possibly your hotpress. If so find and turn on the valve so that your system fills to one bar or so. It shoild stop filling at this point anyway.

The unidentified object looks to me like a motorised valve. You seem to have two of them? So you have heating / hotwater combination?? Do this make any sense?

Do these valves have a "sliding" lever at any part. Often labelled "man

---

auto". If it does, move this to man and see does anything happen.

Let us hear back from you.

JamesM

Jim79 wrote:

Hey, i have attached 5 images.

i have a close up of the burner. i removed a plastic cap and there is a black circular rubber underneath but no button(see burner image).

also i have attached an image of the pressure gauge and the red cap at the top.(Pressure reading is now zero bar.)
In the unidentified image i dont know what that is but its power cable comes out of the firebird.

What do you think?

:eek: Deep Breath - The thermostat is on top of the boiler.
One of those white electric cables (probably the looped one) is going into it. The button is beside the dial.
Jim.

Avns1s

JamesM wrote:

:eek: Deep Breath - The thermostat is on top of the boiler.
One of those white electric cables (probably the looped one) is going into it. The button is beside the dial.
Jim.

I agree James but I think it might be important to put some water pressure into the system first. This is probably the reason the button has popped in the first place, if it has popped.

Jim79

Fellas,
in the unidentified image they have sliding levers on top. i will try the override.
also i will try one of the red taps in the hot press to get the pressure back. there are a couple of red taps in there. can you suggest which one i should go for?

regarding the themostat i now understand you are simply referring to the dial on the front panel. i have tryed it and there has been no response.

Dilbert75

Jim, I've a similar boiler in our home. Its feeding a sealed system, in that there's no small expansion tank in the attic to top up the system for any losses. Instead its pressurised to (as the man said) c. 1bar when cold and there's a small red tank inside the boiler cover to allow expansion when it heats up. If you don't have a small expansion tank in your attic, possibly over your main water tank, then its likely you have a sealed system too.

I had a similar problem with mine the year after we moved in - boiler switched on but no heat. Turned out (for some reason) the pressure had dropped (have never been able to find a leak so we can only hope that there's a valve somewhere slowly passing water back along the system). After much searching which, like yourself, concentrated on the boiler itself, we were directed towards the hot press. There we found a small valve, like you'd find on a washing machine water supply, which connected mains water to the central heating system - I verified this by tracing all of the other pipes in the hot press. By opening this just a crack, and having someone watching the gauge, I was able to allow the system to repressurise. When I fired up the boiler again, it worked perfectly.

Hope that's of some use.

JamesM

Jim79 wrote:

regarding the themostat i now understand you are simply referring to the dial on the front panel. i have tryed it and there has been no response.

Jim, Just to humour me, will you put it in writing and say that you have found the thermostat reset button and pressed it !
You may have a problem with the amount of water in your system, but I have never known it to effect an oil system the same as a gas system. I have never seen a switch in an oil system, controlled by the water pressure. Of course I could be completely wrong. If you do want to fill the system, the T shaped handled valve in the 3rd photo is the one for filling the system.
Jim.

Jim79

James M,

'will you put it in writing and say that you have found the thermostat reset button and pressed it !'. Answer: regarding the thermostat i have only pressed buttons on the external panel. if the reset switch is inside the boiler then no.

Dilbert, thanks for your story. i powered on the system again last night and the pump activated as before and the pressure went up to 1 bar again.

Avn, regarding the motorised valve i moved both sliders to the override position. (not at the same time). however there was no change.

i think i need to get the camera out again and photograph the thermostat area.

i'm goin to a NYE party early tonight so it will be tomorrow before. i have the photo up.

many thanks everyone.

JamesM

Jim79 wrote:

James M,
'will you put it in writing and say that you have found the thermostat reset button and pressed it !'. Answer: regarding the thermostat i have only pressed buttons on the external panel. if the reset switch is inside the boiler then no.
i think i need to get the camera out again and photograph the thermostat area.

Jim, Sorry for getting a bit heavy
Back to the beginning: When you switch on your time clock power goes out to the burner and to the waterpump. The waterpump is working because you can hear a trickle of water.
The power goes from the time clock to the boiler thermostat and then on to the burner. Going by the photos you have posted, it would seem that you have no gravity flow and all your pipes go down into the ground. This can sometimes cause the boiler to overheat and cause the thermostat hi-limit button to activate, especially if the temperature is set quite high. This usually happens when the heating system shuts off at night (circulation stops and the temp shoots up - button hops out - no heating next morning). This is why, from your description, I believe that you are not getting power down to the burner.
Everyone is talking about the water side of things, but your burner is not firing !(I presume that there is no heat in the boiler ?) Get it going and then worry if some of your rads are not heating. One other thing can happen - if you press in the button on the burner, it can sometimes stick in and not reset - try moving it around a bit and make sure it springs out again.
If you still have no heat maybe you should call in the professionals.
Now I will back off because I can't think of anything else
Jim.

Jim79

Burns at last, Burns at last, thank god almighty it burns at last.

i finally located the reset switch. i removed a black cover and there was this little push switch. i pushed it and suddenly it kicked in. you cant imagine my relief, my hands are feckin blue from washing them in cold water.

The solution was so simple but it was simply my own incompetance that has taken so long to find the answer.

James M, Avns1s, Cashel Dilbert,and Mobby many thanks for your help.

JamesM

Jim79 wrote:

Burns at last, Burns at last, thank god almighty it burns at last.

i finally located the reset switch. i removed a black cover and there was this little push switch. i pushed it and suddenly it kicked in. you cant imagine my relief, my hands are feckin blue from washing them in cold water.

The solution was so simple but it was simply my own incompetance that has taken so long to find the answer.

James M, Avns1s, Cashel Dilbert,and Mobby many thanks for your help.

That's great Now just make sure that you don't have the boiler temp too high, and that the pressure gauge shows reasonable pressure when the heat is on, and you will be warm for the winter .
Jim.