Vince's Wrestling Observer Radio Shows Discussion

Fozzy

As said in another thread, Vince has made some shows available for download, so if you've listened to them, let's get the discussion juices flowing!

The Eric Bischoff one was interesting. I didn't watch WCW at all at that time, but I often heard stories about how bad it was. The funny thing I found was that Bischoff admitted that the show had been crap. I mean, I'm sure it would've taken a very stupid person to not see how bad the shows were, but still, I'd have expected Eric to talk up the promotion anyway. McMahon has obviously made some bad decisions in the past, but I don't think he's ever admitted them. He always manages to put a positive spin on things, and I think Bischoff probably should've been doing that here

Listening to him though, it did sound like the WCW product would be getting better. Which we can see now just wasn't true


The WMX7 show was very interesting too. Some good points to take from the show for me, because I didn't really talk about the show with anyone the week after it happened. I absolutely loved that ppv, I have the video in the room here with me and it was one of the best things I've ever seen. But I was surprised to hear people giving out about some parts of the show

A major talking point was that the HHH vs Undertaker match was bad. I remember before the ppv that I didn't expect too much from this match, but it was one of the top 3 matches for me. I thought it was done excellently, and whatever about the politics of the outcome, it was a great match on a great ppv

Someone said that they thought the Vince vs Shane match got a better reaction than the main event, but the guys (at least one of them anyway) on the show disagreed with that. For me, that match was the best on the show. Maybe if I looked at it again I'd disagree, but at the time I loved that match. It had everything in it and was just brilliant. Maybe it didn't get as big a reaction as the main event, but it must've been close

Of course, a lot of talk was about Austin's heel turn. The match itself was brilliant, a lot of near falls, and the confusion with Vince coming down. The fans didn't buy the heel turn in the arena, but I think a big part of that was just that they were huge Austin fans and he'd just won the title at the biggest event ever. They didn't care how he did it. JR did a great job of selling it for the fans at home though

They mentioned a move on Tazz where it looked like they were trying to throw him under the top rope cos he was too short to hit it right, but I remember an interview with Tazz where he said he'd been knocked out and he just didn't remember the rest of that match at all! He just stumbled into the ropes

Nice two shows anyway, brought back some memories, thanks for that Vince!

Charlie

Great work for putting them up there Vince, I thouroghly enjoyed both. I think I might have a re-listen because I can't remember all the points I wanted to make .

However, the first one I will throw out is in relation to Bischoff stating that he had been real tied up lately trying to sort out the Mike Awesome deal. What strikes me now is that if they had of been using there time more efficently they might not have had the problems they did.

One caller from Canada rang up and asked if there were any plans for a better Nitro slot becasue it presently aired at something like 2am (terrible slot). Bischoff said it was on his list of things to do but wasn't at the top of it because he was real busy at the time.

This brings me back to Mike Awesome. Why spend so much of your time to try and bring a guy in and then use him so terribly. Don't get me wrong, I liove Mike Awesome's work and thought he was the star of the first One Night Stand but it just strikes me that surely securing a prime time slot in a huge market (Canada) is far more important than being locked in legal wranglings to bring in a guy that was only ever going to be given a terrible gimmick on the lower mid card range. I just feel that maybe this may be a indcation of how messed up priorities were in the company at the time.

Vince135792003

I'm glad you both enjoyed them. I'll try and stick up longer ones sometime before the weekend. I'll put the links up on this thread.

I think a good one I have is the wrestling observer show right after the last episode of WCW Nitro. From a historical perspective its a really interesting show.

But if there are any other requests I'll do my best. I've about 80 to 100 shows and the list of guests is pretty good.

The thing I took from the Eric interview was here he was, the manager of a multi million dollar wrestling company getting criticised by a 15 year old kid for all of the logic holes in the storylines. Could you imagine Vince putting himself in that position? I couldn't.

Jerichoholic

Good man Vince, have you got any of the f4w shows with Bryan and Dave, they are the holy grail.

Vince135792003

Jerichoholic wrote:

Good man Vince, have you got any of the f4w shows with Bryan and Dave, they are the holy grail.

I won't be. The guy (Alvarez) is trying to run a business, he seems like a really nice guy and I'd rather you gave him 5 euro a month. You'd get your money's worth.

Besides these basically are f4w Bryan and Dave shows (just old ones). I have plenty where they just talk randomly for 2 hours that I'd have no problem putting up. Plus eyada is out of business.

Mr.Nice Guy

The shows were very interesting. I can't believe that one guy didn't like WM17.

Do you have the reaction to WM18? That would be cool as I'd love to hear the thoughts on Hogan's support.

Vince135792003

The shows are mostly between 2000/2001. Eyada went out of business July 2001 I think.

Mr.Nice Guy

Anything from the Austin heel days would be fun. Not many people seemed to enjoy it but I felt it was great.

Charlie

Yeah your right Vince, it was a position that I don't think Vince would have put himself inand one in which Bischoff didn't have to. The only audiene these shows get is hardcore fans and it was the casual fan that WCW had lost and needed to regain. Funny thing aswel was I thought Bischoff came across a real bollix when the 15yr old called. The kid was making some really good critiques and all Bischoff kept asking him was what age he was in a real smug, let the adult talk now, voice.

Vince135792003

Here's another:

Its a 2 hour show from March 2001 with the first 30 minutes all about the news of the day (the big news Shawn Michaels being pulled from Smackdown and the sale of WCW to WWF at time when WWF were offered 11 to 1 on Saturday night for a new WCW show) and the rest is an interview with Jerry Lawler.

It was a really topical show at the time as Lawler had just left the company after his then partner Stacey "The Kat" had been fired. He went into great detail about the whole situation. I think he even read out the letter that he sent to Vince.

http://download.yousendit.com/6F3048027E16A1E8

I just clicked on the link. For whatever reason you may have to log in or register (which seems pretty simple) with yousendit to get the file this time.

Charlie

Cheers Vince, just downloading now so i'll post some feedback later.

Fozzy

Downloading now. I don't remember Michaels being on SD? The only time I remember him in WWE before he made his return was when he was the ref for the HHH/Rock ironman match

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

Downloading now. I don't remember Michaels being on SD?

He was scheduled to be on the show to set up some sort of a return for Wrestlemania. I was a bit vague in my description. I think he still suffered from substance abuse at the time.

Fozzy

Just listened to the show. Again, it was interesting. I'm kind of tired now so I'm forgetting a few things I wanted to mention about it. Funny to listen to how the WWF were originally handling WCW. The assumptions were that it would be completely separate, as some people thought ECW would be this year. No chance! Some of the predictions Lawler made for the future of it were spot on too, although it's obvious enough that competition is a good thing

Gas the way Lawler could say some of that stuff, and speculate on what it was that got Stacy fired, and then come back to the company a year later. I loved Heyman commentating though. I just loved listening to him every week, he really got guys over and still managed to be funny

There was a little mention of a Jerry Jarrett upstart promotion there too, kind of funny listening back now! Also the mention of the Lesnar interview, he debuted the night after that WM, didn't he?

Fozzy

I'm just on here for a moment before I forget again, I remembered what I was meant to say last night just after I'd switched off the computer: I'm absolutely convinced that the first caller for Lawler (the Canadian guy) was Bret Hart! Not only did it sound exactly like him, but I've heard Bret talking about unions before

Time to leg it before someone gives away the Liddell/Ortiz winner!

Vince135792003

Heres another interview from May 2000. This time its with Steve Regal. From what I can remember he was a couple of weeks away from starting again fresh on tv with his William Regal gimmick.

I really enjoyed the interview. Again from what I can remember he came accross very open and genuine in the interview.


So here it is:http://download.yousendit.com/4ADCD77406EE7E79

Charlie

Thanks a million again Vince. Just downloading now so will post later or tomorrow my thoughts.

Again, thanks.

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

Here's another:

Its a 2 hour show from March 2001 with the first 30 minutes all about the news of the day (the big news Shawn Michaels being pulled from Smackdown and the sale of WCW to WWF at time when WWF were offered 11 to 1 on Saturday night for a new WCW show) and the rest is an interview with Jerry Lawler.

It was a really topical show at the time as Lawler had just left the company after his then partner Stacey "The Kat" had been fired. He went into great detail about the whole situation. I think he even read out the letter that he sent to Vince.

http://download.yousendit.com/6F3048027E16A1E8

I just clicked on the link. For whatever reason you may have to log in or register (which seems pretty simple) with yousendit to get the file this time.

Hey vince if you could,will you please re-up this one as I havent been on the site in a while because ive been quite busy..
thanks alot

Vince135792003

fatal wrote:

Hey vince if you could,will you please re-up this one as I havent been on the site in a while because ive been quite busy..
thanks alot

Yep, I will. It should be up by tommorow night.

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

Yep, I will. It should be up by tommorow night.

thanks alot appreciate it

Vince135792003

Here's the Jerry Lawler one again. You might have to register to get it.

http://download.yousendit.com/01F8DAD85498DDE9

Fozzy

The Regal one was interesting. I already knew most of what he said, as I've read his book and it goes into much more detail. Great read by the way. Pity that match with Angle never happened on tv, would've been one to see. That match he had with Benoit at the Pillman show was fantastic..or I'd assume it was, not really sure if I've ever seen it or not..

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

The Regal one was interesting. I already knew most of what he said, as I've read his book and it goes into much more detail. Great read by the way. Pity that match with Angle never happened on tv, would've been one to see. That match he had with Benoit at the Pillman show was fantastic..or I'd assume it was, not really sure if I've ever seen it or not..

Its on the Chris Benoit dvd as an extra. Its a really good match.

fatal

Vince135792003 wrote:

Here's the Jerry Lawler one again. You might have to register to get it.

http://download.yousendit.com/01F8DAD85498DDE9

legend..thanks alot;)

Vince135792003

A 2 hour show from February 2000 with Raven as the guest, who at that point was in ECW.

He likes to talk.


http://download.yousendit.com/33A431A04A3E80A3

Fozzy

Haha, good show with Raven. He's always got great interviews, even if he does tend to tell the same stories again sometimes. He definitely has a very good mind for the business and spoke a lot of sense on the show about ECW, WCW and the WWF

Something got me thinking though, Raven and Dave were praising McMahon for something that we tend to give him a lot of abuse about these days. Raven was talking about how Vince gives young guys a chance to hang with the big guys, so that they're elevated. The night before the show Benoit bet the Rock and that was brought up. Some other names were mentioned, as were Eddie and Jericho, who were elevated to the top within a few years. Anyway, Vince basically does the same thing these days. Elevating young guys like Cena, Kennedy, Umaga, Lashley, and plenty of others. But these days most of the young guys either don't have the talent to deserve such a spot, or they just can't connect with the crowd. Is it just that Vince doesn't understand what makes a good wrestler anymore?

And bleedin Simon Dean callin to rip on Raven! Hahaha

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

. Is it just that Vince doesn't understand what makes a good wrestler anymore?

No I don't think its that.

Its very hard to get a Chris Benoit, an Eddie Guerrero or a Chris Jericho from just a couple of years in OVW. Remember those 3 had been wrestling for a long time in alot of different places so when they finally did make it to the WWE, they were more than ready.

Today, there are so few places for guys to learn but also to make a decent living that it makes it very difficult for alot of guys to get to the level of a Benoit or a Jericho.

Its a fair point that you make though and I'm sure I'm guilty of it too. We as wrestling fans always want change but when we get it, alot of time we complain.

Jerichoholic

I'm looking for the observer show that was right after Wrestlemania 17 went off the air. Brian and Dave discussing the show.

If you come accross it let me know!

Cheers.

fatal

Jerichoholic wrote:

I'm looking for the observer show that was right after Wrestlemania 17 went off the air. Brian and Dave discussing the show.

If you come accross it let me know!

Cheers.

was that the one where one of them(i think brian) didnt like WM17?

Vince135792003

Eh no. I don't really know anyone who didn't like that show.


I'll stick the show up again along with a new one on Friday.

Jerichoholic

Excellent!

I've been listening to the shows leading up to WM17, and it's very interesting with all the WCW shenanigans taking place. Dave was talking about a Saturday night WCW that would air from 11-1am, obviously it never happened. Instead they just stuck it on Raw, which was the dumbest thing I think I'd ever seen.

Fozzy

Whatever WCW show they could have made wouldn't have been all that good considering that they hadn't picked up any top WCW talent. They could've stuck some big WWF stars on it though, but I don't think it would have been any more successful than what they actually did

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

Whatever WCW show they could have made wouldn't have been all that good considering that they hadn't picked up any top WCW talent. They could've stuck some big WWF stars on it though, but I don't think it would have been any more successful than what they actually did

I agree with you saying that its success would be limited given the lack of big name talent they acquired although they did have Booker T, DDP, Buff and had also signed RVD. It was a difficult situation for the WWE given that so many of WCW's top talent had huge contracts still being paid to them for essentially sitting on their ass. It meant that WWE would have had to offer silly money to get Goldberg, Nash etc...

But the whole WCW invasion was still completely messed up. It should have meant huge business for at least 6 months and instead it spiralled the WWE into a decline in popularity its still trying to rise up from.

The biggest problem was that Vince McMahon, never let the WCW faction get the upper hand on the WWE for a considerable length of time. He wasn't prepared to make the WWE weak or in danger and thats what he needed to do to make money off it. Instead it was pretty much 4 months of comedy. And alot of it was really good comedy but that never draws in wrestling.

1 particuliar show sticks in my mind also. It was when ECW joined with WCW and Heyman cut an awesome promo. 10 minutes later they announced Stephanie as the owner of ECW. It killed the momentum.

1 other thing that I remember positively about the invasion was a promo by Freddie Blassie. It was so great.

Jerichoholic

That's WWE's problem, they always reckon that the McMahon family are more important and popular than the wrestlers. Hence Stephanie owning ECW dying on it's arse. And the inVasion being looked back upon as a disaster. Even though the PPV is quite good as a show.

Charlie

I would take the invasion materal any day over the plop we're being churned out these days.

I think a big problem with the invasion storyline is that they really didn't know what they were going with it. At first Linda was coming out (in her CEO capacity) saying that they were going to secure a time slot for WCW and that it would stand on its own, then we had those spots where WWf tv time became WCW tv time with commentator switches and all......

I really think when Vince heard WCW was up for sale he jumped and bought it asap without putting in place the neccessary structures with the TV networks, the WWF itself and the NECCESSARY TALENT (Goldberg, Sting, Flair, Steiner, Nash etc.) so that WCW would have a viable platform. Insetad what we got was a very rushed piece of work which ended up being killed off becasue they realised how badly they messed up and didn't want the headache of trying to fix it. Remember, the brand extension was originally meant o be WWF(Raw)/WCW(Smackdown)

Vince135792003

charlie mchugh wrote:

I would take the invasion materal any day over the plop we're being churned out these days.

I would too. Thats not to say that the feud could have been so much more.

Again just on the point about the talent. Goldberg (and this is just going off memory) had a 2 year contract at 2 million dollars a year. It was gonna take alot of money to get him off his couch and forgo that amount of money to wrestle for the WWE. So the talent situation was tricky.

Charlie

Defintley, the feud could have been so much more.

In relation to Goldberg and the other big stars, I know it was a real tricky situation but he is VKM afterall and ha made stranger things happen. My point was that they could have slowed things right down so as to try and get at least some of that talent in plae and execute a proper invasion, the whole angle was rushed so much in my opinion.

Vince135792003

Just on the last point, I pretty much agree. There would have been a big financial cost to get the likes of Goldberg, Hogan, Steiner etc..but if they done it correctly there would have been a big money return from it too.



http://download.yousendit.com/526ACA3247F7203B

This is an hour long interview with Ric Flair from November 1999. Its a good show with Ric coming off like a total class act.

Ric also featured in a number of tribute shows on eyada for guys like Ray Stevens and Gordon Solie which were really fascinating. If people are interested, I can stick them up.

http://download.yousendit.com/E644AE691B2084D2 - Wrestlemania 17 recap

Charlie

Cheers Vince, always love hearing Naitch talk.

Fozzy

Thanks, I'll have a listen tomorrow

Those tribute shows would be nice to have a listen to, I know Ray Stevens influenced Flair a lot, it'd be cool to hear him talk about it

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

Thanks, I'll have a listen tomorrow

Those tribute shows would be nice to have a listen to, I know Ray Stevens influenced Flair a lot, it'd be cool to hear him talk about it

I'll stick that 1 up next. I think with those kinda shows it can be a little hard to follow because it was before our time but there still really interesting to listen to.

Jerichoholic

Vince135792003 wrote:

http://download.yousendit.com/E644AE691B2084D2 - Wrestlemania 17 recap

Fantastic work Vince, I am so happy with this! Thank you!

I'll also take the Flair interveiws and I'll reprt back on my thoughts tomorrow.

At the time all of this was taking place I was almost married, so I was living away from a viable internet source and also a sky sports outlet. Torrents were a thing of the future. Let it be known though that the girl I was sacrificing all of this for bought me the very rare WM 17 on DVD at the time, and as rare as those discs are....




Thanks Vince though, I appreciate the effort put into finding that for me.

Fozzy

Flair show was interesting alright. He's always mentioned as one of the most polite and respectful wrestlers outside the ring, and he certainly came off like that on the show. The fact that he openly criticised WCW for the way they'd used him that year is something you wouldn't see anyone doing these days in WWE. Sure WWE guys aren't even allowed to be on Meltzer's show these days

I feel like Flair is being used wrong at the moment as well though. He should be used to get young talent over, but not at the expense of making him look useless, which is what I think has happened with him losing to Kenny

The talk of Russo's booking is as relevant today as it was then. Flair and Hogan did get to have a match on Raw 4 or 5 years ago or so, can't remember if it was good or not.. I think it was either great or really bad.. Flair and Angle was great I remember anyway

Interesting to hear him talk about Foley back then, he wasn't angry in any way about the way Mick felt, but I'm sure he'd have been surprised to hear that they'd be feuding over that six and a half years later

Vince135792003

This is the Ray Stevens tribute show from June 2001. The first half hour covers all the news which is interesting as they predict/guess the downward slide of WWE. After that, they do the tribute to Stevens featuring Ric Flair, Billy Graham, Nick Bockwinkel, Bobby Heenan and Red Bastein.

I knew nothing about him except for seeing him a few times on tv but I still really liked the show.

http://download.yousendit.com/008CE1E75017EAF5

Fozzy

I completely forgot to post here after I heard that show. Great show, I miss hearing Bobby Heenan. Ray Stevens was certainly respected a lot by everyone on the show, I'll have to see if I can find more of his stuff

fatal

keep em comin vince..........

Fozzy

Nice one, this'll make for some comparisons with Kurt's recent interviews

Vince135792003

I completely forgot about putting another show up.

Heres a Kurt Angle interview from June 2000: http://download.yousendit.com/763469042FD6BF4E

Speaking of Angle from the observer:
--Kurt Angle was on WOCM in Ocean City, MD this morning for five minutes. He said he's been clean from pain pills for two years now. He said he made more money for WWE than any wrestler over the past six years. He said he likes TNA more because it's more of a wrestling show than a circus act. He said he's starting soon with EXC so we'll be doing both wrestling and MMA. Hey, that's what he said. (thanks to Mike Sempervive).


Heres a Vince Russo interview from December 1999 (pretty early in his booking run in WCW). His comments about Mexican and Japanese wrestlers are interesting from what I can remember. Plus he talked a good game.


http://download.yousendit.com/CE247406151A8521

Charlie

Cheers Vince, really appreciate you sticking these up and look forward to them like they are new episodes of Curb Your Enthusiasm .

I mentioned it before, but somewhere I have an interview woth Russo conducted by R.D. Reynolds & Bryan Alvarez(of Figue Four Wrestling fame) the two guys who wrote the book "The Death of WCW" really interesting stuff as they pinpointed Russo in the book as one of the culprits of WCW's death. If anyone would be interested interested in hearing it I could dig it out.

Fozzy

I think I've actually got that buried away somewhere on the computer now that you mention it.. I think you posted it up here before, don't think I've listened to it

Russo talks a lot of sense at times, but his whole thought process seems to be that wrestling shows cannot get over with wrestling, which just doesn't make sense

Vince135792003

I was listening to a really fun show yesterday. I had never heard of him but it was a guy called Bob Mould who was on the booking committee of WCW when things were going bad at the end. He went into detail about what he saw from his perspective.

I'll stick it up sometime over the weekend.

Speaking of the Death of WCW book. From [url]www.f4wonline.com:[/url]

Death of WCW is now required reading at MIT. They began a new American Pro Wrestling course and "1998: Momentum is Money" is on the syllabus.
[/

A wrestling course?! I think I've found something in college I finally want to study. Here is the course link:

http://cms.mit.edu/academics/courseInfo.php?courseID=CMS.997