Housing Bubble Bursting

Highly Salami

2-bed apartment in Dublin city centre:
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/10-aston-building-aston-place-dublin-2/415001
only €3.75 million, buy now before it goes up to 4 million!
:eek:

Jesus Wept

Expensive and horrible.

Mr. Loverman

Highly Salami wrote: »

2-bed apartment in Dublin city centre:
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/10-aston-building-aston-place-dublin-2/415001
only €3.75 million, buy now before it goes up to 4 million!
:eek:

It would be like living in a fitness centre.

Dob74

Highly Salami wrote: »

2-bed apartment in Dublin city centre:
http://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/10-aston-building-aston-place-dublin-2/415001
only €3.75 million, buy now before it goes up to 4 million!
:eek:

Only 1000 euro a square foot, what a deal.

desertcircus

That place was first offered years ago - April 2007 at least, if I'm right. It seemed like an insane proposition even then. How many people who can afford a four million quid apartment will be willing to live in a place that has a single guest bedroom, is designed as a work of art rather than a home, and is located in a less-than-ideal spot?

It makes no sense on any level; it's a seven-figure gamble on the prospect of a multimillionaire hearing about it, flying to Ireland to see it, and falling in love with it.

Merch

john47832 wrote: »

maybe a little harsh but not far off the mark -personally I think that politics in this country is flawed, we are governed by salesmen, and a salesmsns job is to overemphasize the good and blatantly lie or ignore anything thats bad

I have never voted before and will never vote for a salesman - I could only ever see myself voting if the party were non irish, had intellectual ability, common sense and a good record in a business background

I'm not trying to single you out for criticism, but not voting against the salesman is a as good as a vote for them to me, I understand why you say it but I still like to think if enough decent/selfless/sensible people vote against the major parties (all of them) then that is a public statement that we wont tolerate them anymore and they will be forced to change or disappear.
They rely on the other side being as bad so just dont vote for FF, FG or Labour (or greens) I really would at this stage prefer a coalition of everyone else,
Whatever of their faults, SF are the only ones that I have heard saying that the system needs to be changed from the inside.
Joe Higgins seems to have morals, Lab, FF and FG are happy to saddle us with private investors losses? If I invest in a company and it goes bust, what do I get? why would I be refunded? I know its not as simple as that but still, it just doesnt make sense.

I say vote for anyone but FF,FG or Lab

matsy1

How much further could house prices fall???

matsy1

matsy1 wrote: »

How much further could house prices fall???

In some areas, to zero! if there are no buyers at all, you could just end up abandoning it!

This will be the fate of many houses that are already in poor condition and in a bad location.

Edit: found a better picture

Red Hand

Deleted User wrote: »

In some areas, to zero! if there are no buyers at all, you could just end up abandoning it!

This will be the fate of many houses that are already in poor condition and in a bad location....

It's a fixer upper.

matsy1

Deleted User wrote: »

In some areas, to zero!

They wont give them away for free, the bank will sell them.. Maybe I mean like the 3 bedroom house in a nice enough estate in Dublin, now priced at €250k for instance http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=558113...
How further could it fall?

Blackjack

matsy1 wrote: »

They wont give them away for free, the bank will sell them.. Maybe I mean like the 3 bedroom house in a nice enough estate in Dublin, now priced at €250k for instance http://www.daft.ie/searchsale.daft?id=558113...
How further could it fall?

Well apparently the average Dublin property price increased 500% from 1994, so there could be another 50% off current prices, certainly if Morgan Kelly is to be believed.

It's a fixer upper.

Not if there's a modern one just along the road going for less than 80k, which there will be soon.

norrie rugger

Merch wrote: »

I say vote for anyone but FG or Lab

Exactly why not vote Labour (or even a relatively conservative FG) but do vote Sinn Fein???
You do know that it is ALL FF's fault. They were the keyholder for the past 14 years. You can not blame the opposition forthe decisions of the ruling party. You CAN blame FF, those that voted for them, those that did not bother voting and those that voted single policy independants. We have an extremely fair voting system and we got the government that we deserved.
Blaming the opposition, for the public choices and FF decisions, is foolish and the exact mentality that keeps FF in positions of power

dory

matsy1 wrote: »

How much further could house prices fall???

Well I'm using other countries as comparisons, and by that standard we have quite a bit to fall.

It doesn't matter about laminate flooring, or big red couches, their only worth what someone can afford, and right now the Irish can't afford much.

jmayo

desertcircus wrote: »

That place was first offered years ago - April 2007 at least, if I'm right. It seemed like an insane proposition even then. How many people who can afford a four million quid apartment will be willing to live in a place that has a single guest bedroom, is designed as a work of art rather than a home, and is located in a less-than-ideal spot?

It makes no sense on any level; it's a seven-figure gamble on the prospect of a multimillionaire hearing about it, flying to Ireland to see it, and falling in love with it.

FFS if someone has 3.5 million they can buy a nice pad in Spain or some such place, not in the centre of the capital of a busted country like Ireland. :rolleyes:

dory wrote: »

Well I'm using other countries as comparisons, and by that standard we have quite a bit to fall.

It doesn't matter about laminate flooring, or big red couches, their only worth what someone can afford, and right now the Irish can't afford much.

We are in a very strange market.
By this stage we should be near the bottom and things could start moving again, even though realistically prices would remain static for years. At least people would know what true value was.

Instead as someone said, death by a thousand cuts.
We are having a slow drop dragging out the whole thing.

The market is in a limbo state since banks are not foreclosing on defaulting homeowners, banks do not have the money to lend to purchasers, purchasers haven't a clue what is going to happen with jobs and taxes so won't risk house purchase, huge overhang of NAMA linked property is just sitting there not coming onto the market and no one really knows what is going to happen to interest rates and the euro.

Merch

norrie rugger wrote: »

Exactly why not vote Labour (or even a relatively conservative FG) but do vote Sinn Fein???
You do know that it is ALL FF's fault. They were the keyholder for the past 14 years. You can not blame the opposition forthe decisions of the ruling party. You CAN blame FF, those that voted for them, those that did not bother voting and those that voted single policy independants. We have an extremely fair voting system and we got the government that we deserved.
Blaming the opposition, for the public choices and FF decisions, is foolish and the exact mentality that keeps FF in positions of power

I am not saying its FG or Labours fault, well not entirely, but they should have voiced significant concerns about the regulators laxness and more.
It is FF fault and I think it would not be as bad if FG or Lab were in during that time, I do blame people that voted FF in, but more so people that didnt vote/couldn't have cared less as they were happy away and they had their job and it was really nothing to do with them, so long as taxes didnt go up and they got to watch corrie or whatever.
But now, do I really think FG/Labour will make a significant difference? not really, they will just have to clean up the mess as best they can, come next time the elctorate will hate them if they makle any cuts and promptly forget all this 2010/11 business and re-elect FF.
After all that stuff with Gilmores wife and the land, I just find that a conflict of interest on his part other than that I would have outright voted for Labour and anyone that benefited getting them in on their own.
FG are not significantly different and Labour with Gilmores response to his "wifes" activities have shown they are not either.
We need an overhaul of the political system not just a change of government
What we need now is a party or a collection parties that have not been in power FF,FG, Labour have all just been the same, we need a complete turn around in the way things are done.

norrie rugger

Merch wrote: »

We need an overhaul of the political system not just a change of government
What we need now is a party or a collection parties that have not been in power FF,FG, Labour have all just been the same, we need a complete turn around in the way things are done.

But how can you say that they have been the same, given that the opposition parties have not been there.
This is what I do not understand.

Also Lab have never actually been given majority status, within government to impliment their proposals. Judging them on decisions made, as junior members, 15 years ago is a bit harsh

Merch

FG is only marginally different to FF
But they are not even going to consider trying to fix problems, just manage them.

There will be no talk of upsetting the system that got us here in the first place, no call for change from them

FG have been in power

norrie rugger

Merch wrote: »

FG is only marginally different to FF
But they are not even going to consider trying to fix problems, just manage them.

There will be no talk of upsetting the system that got us here in the first place, no call for change from them

FG have been in power

Which is why I am focusing on Labour;)
Let's be honest, what can anyone do to "Fix" this?

The question really before us now is who is best to manage

Merch

norrie rugger wrote: »

Which is why I am focusing on Labour;)
Let's be honest, what can anyone do to "Fix" this?

The question really before us now is who is best to manage

Well, I believe labour have been in coalition with FG
I'm unhappy with their outright acceptance that the bank debt should be foisted upon the nation an d not with even a return, such as ownership of the banks (not just their debts) change of management in all banks being supported and the implementation of some kind of code of conduct.

norrie rugger

Merch wrote: »

Well, I believe labour have been in coalition with FG
I'm unhappy with their outright acceptance that the bank debt should be foisted upon the nation an d not with even a return, such as ownership of the banks (not just their debts) change of management in all banks being supported and the implementation of some kind of code of conduct.

Forgive me here but did Labour vote against the banks debt transfer?

quozl

norrie rugger wrote: »

Forgive me here but did Labour vote against the banks debt transfer?

Labour were against the bank guarantee to their credit. FG supported it - which I just don't understand, Bruton is an economist!

Fr0g

quozl wrote: »

Labour were against the bank guarantee to their credit. FG supported it - which I just don't understand, Bruton is an economist!

The bank guarantee was not about economics but about saving the proffesional classes all of whom were up to their tonsils in property related debt. A lot of them had leveraged their (ridiculously overvalued) homes. I'm talking about judges, solicitors, barristers, doctors, consultants etc. It was about saving the bankers and the developers, the people who "matter". FG is as much a part of this as FF in my opinion.

Spiritofthekop

dory wrote: »

Well I'm using other countries as comparisons, and by that standard we have quite a bit to fall.

It doesn't matter about laminate flooring, or big red couches, their only worth what someone can afford, and right now the Irish can't afford much.

Agreed.

Some of the prices on houses on Daft are just outrageous still, no surprise they have been on offer for over 1 year in some cases.

The TIMES House Price List just came out last Sunday.

Plenty of people are going to get a fright. Its about time people got real with house prices they are still WAY overpriced and its not going to get any better for a long long time.They WILL continue to drop further & further as no one will buy anymore as they are not getting value for money.

Most of the houses for sale on Daft in south Dublin area you could firstly knock €100,000 OFF for starters & only then start talking business.

liger

Spiritofthekop wrote: »

Most of the houses for sale on Daft in south Dublin area you could firstly knock €100,000 OFF for starters & only then start talking business.

lots of houses/apts in the D24 area have been priced from 130 - 200k. Do you think that those places have much further to fall?

If you got a 3bed mid terrece, about 10years old. in the kiltipper/killinarden side of things, for say 135k. would you think your getting a good deal?

norrie rugger

liger wrote: »

lots of houses/apts in the D24 area have been priced from 130 - 200k. Do you think that those places have much further to fall?

I have seen some of these building and the answer is "Yes".
I would not buy some of them under any circumstance

needmore

Has any one seen this website??

check out this link: http://offsetdebt.net/

could be our way out??

Treehouse72

needmore wrote: »

Has any one seen this website??

check out this link: http://offsetdebt.net/

could be our way out??

Sounds like nothing more than dressed-up debt writedown to me.

In fact, it sounds worse: it sounds like somebody demanding a bailout without realising that any holes left in the banks' balance sheets as a result of their idea just need to be filled by the taxpayer, absent sovereign/bank/sovereign-bank restructuring.

I'm open to correction on my opinion as I am no expert and that's just an amateur reading of the piece.

Merch

Treehouse72 wrote: »

Sounds like nothing more than dressed-up debt writedown to me.

In fact, it sounds worse: it sounds like somebody demanding a bailout without realising that any holes left in the banks' balance sheets as a result of their idea just need to be filled by the taxpayer, absent sovereign/bank/sovereign-bank restructuring.

I'm open to correction on my opinion as I am no expert and that's just an amateur reading of the piece.

I'm no expert either but it sounds like there is some merit to it? It doesn't suggest someone looking for a bailout to me, only that you pay the bank back what they borrowed?

Treehouse72

Merch wrote: »

I'm no expert either but it sounds like there is some merit to it? It doesn't suggest someone looking for a bailout to me, only that you pay the bank back what they borrowed?

No, I don't think it's saying pay the bank what they borrowed:

The family home owner should be allowed to repay their mortgage with these discounted bonds. That way the homeowner can repay only what the house is worth now and pay out less cash each month.

That sounds like a NE bailout to me.

Besides which, my understanding is that the bank borrowed most of the amount the borrower did. They then make their profit in interest and charges. There isn't, I don't think, a big difference between the capital sum the banks and mortgage holder have borrowed, so the former can't just let the latter of the hook with no consequence. If they accept less from the borrower, it leaves more of a hole in their balance sheet and more capitalisation money will be needed from the state to continue. It's all locked in until it gets defaulted on or restructured.

Again, open to correction.