PS3 Delayed in EU till September '07???

1huge1

I find this very hard to believe
it would really kill sony's chances in europe
its like handing their position right to nintendo and microsoft

Smellyirishman

AceCard Jones wrote:

Very true, hence why I think we should just wait and see because this point can't be debated properly yet.

I think it's quite clear that there is not a significant difference though. I mean, look at the Wii and 360, now the 360 has had a year head start but the difference in power is apparant. This difference is not as clear with the PS3 and 360 because, well, there is very little difference. If your going to argue for the PS3 don't spout about it's graphics or "power" advantage over the 360, because the way it is now it's more likely that any difference seen will be due to development and programming and not any hardware advantage, that's all.

Karmafaerie

I can't believe I started all this!
All I was saying is that Sony have finally stopped coming out and saying that their console is multiple times better than the 360.
Sony have spent the last two-three years going on about how the PS3 was going to be so, so, much better.
They were even saying that it was going to be 4 times better at one stage!
Now that both consoles are out there to be tested by both developers and producers, Sony have had to stop all the ridiculous claims, as too many test were being done to support them!
Basically, the PS3 has a slightly faster processor speed, while the 360 has a slightly faster graphics engine!
As I was saying however, 90% of the games for them are going to be on both consoles, so will be the same basic game. Developers are developing more games for the 360, and porting them over to he PS3, so if there was a major difference in console (which there clearly isn't), it wouldn't matter!

Listen, who cares, if you want a PS3 buy a PS3 - if you want a 360 buy a 360. Or splash the cash and get both!
Who cares, this is a thread about the release date of the PS3.
Sony have once again shown how much they value the European market, and if the console gets pushed back too much, consumers are going to start getting pissed.
A console can be the best, and have the best games, but what difference does that make for you if you can't buy one?!

projectmayhem

we all know the phantom is the leetest of the leet anyway

Ri_Nollaig

Karmafaerie wrote:

I can't believe I started all this!
All I was saying is that Sony have finally stopped coming out and saying that their console is multiple times better than the 360.
Sony have spent the last two-three years going on about how the PS3 was going to be so, so, much better.
They were even saying that it was going to be 4 times better at one stage!
Now that both consoles are out there to be tested by both developers and producers, Sony have had to stop all the ridiculous claims, as too many test were being done to support them!
Basically, the PS3 has a slightly faster processor speed, while the 360 has a slightly faster graphics engine!
As I was saying however, 90% of the games for them are going to be on both consoles, so will be the same basic game. Developers are developing more games for the 360, and porting them over to he PS3, so if there was a major difference in console (which there clearly isn't), it wouldn't matter!

Listen, who cares, if you want a PS3 buy a PS3 - if you want a 360 buy a 360. Or splash the cash and get both!
Who cares, this is a thread about the release date of the PS3.
Sony have once again shown how much they value the European market, and if the console gets pushed back too much, consumers are going to start getting pissed.
A console can be the best, and have the best games, but what difference does that make for you if you can't buy one?!

That basically summed it all up but some people take their console beliefs at almost a religious level so these arguments are ALWAYS going to continue...

And on topic i don't think sony will delay the european launch AGAIN as it would have given its main competitor an almost 2 year advantage and either shows that they truely don't care about the euro market or they really just think they have it in the bag no matter what.

Calibos

I just have to laugh after seeing the comparison video.

I remember the E3 render demo of Motorstorm and Killzone being held up by the Fanboys as proof that the PS3 was 2x 3x 4x as powerful as the 360.

I remember people telling the Fanboys to 'Remember Sony's Hyperbole about the PS2 Final Fantasy Emotion Engine TM Demo' FMV quality ingame graphics on your PS2!!

They were asked to remember how that turned out and were they so gullible to believe the same crap again.

I can't believe that even after seeing that vid, they are 'still' trying to claim that the PS3 is so much more powerful.

I am not a fanboy of any console. I have owned every console barring the segas since the Snes. I will be getting a PS3 to go with my 360 and Wii because I do think its good value seeing as I want BluRay. I do think the games will be great. I do think it'll be great that its a lot quieter than the jet engined 360. But what I do not think is that it is more powerful than the 360 in any meaningful way and I certainly never let myself believe the hype back at E3 or now.

tuxy

AceCard Jones wrote:

And just on the note of someone saying Sony admitted it was only slightly more powerful than the 360....
It's more than 2x more powerful a machine.

AceCard Jones wrote:

Very true, hence why I think we should just wait and see because this point can't be debated properly yet.

Do you suffer from some kind of dissociative identity disorder?

projectmayhem

Calibos wrote:

I remember people telling the Fanboys to 'Remember Sony's Hyperbole about the PS2 Final Fantasy Emotion Engine TM Demo' FMV quality ingame graphics on your PS2!!

They were asked to remember how that turned out and were they so gullible to believe the same crap again.

er.. well if you go back to the ps2 "this is what we can do" vids, they pretty much hit on target in the last 2 years of the ps2's life with GT4, burnout: revenge, tekken, killzone, black & so on...

Calibos wrote:

But what I do not think is that it is more powerful than the 360 in any meaningful way and I certainly never let myself believe the hype back at E3 or now.

while i disagree with the sentiment that the ps3 isn't that much more powerful, i agree about it being meaningful. yeah, it's more powerful, but it's not going to make a difference for most games. first party titles will be mind-blowing (GT, killzone, socom, etc.) in the same way they were on PS2, and xbox. halo was mind-blowing on xbox, while everything else looked as good as the ps2.

need for speed will look the same on both machines, but halo3 and killzone2 will look unbelievable on each console. so yeah, it is more powerful, but not in any really meaningful way.

AceCard Jones

tuxy wrote:

Do you suffer from some kind of dissociative identity disorder?

Not that I know of anyway....;)
But since I seem to be expected to explain myself......
I think it was best said when Smellyirishman said:

Smellyirishman wrote:

it's more likely that any difference seen will be due to development and programming and not any hardware advantage, that's all.

I believe this is 100% true and I never even once stated that anything the PS3 did would be directly down to it's Hardware.

And when ciaran500 said specs on paper mean nothing when comparing two consoles that consist of different architecture, he hit the nail on the head and looked at it much better than I previously had.

But when I read down the list of specs between the two consoles I would rather build the Playstation 3 than the 360.
My comment was more directed at the raw list of hardware than the two consoles' compared performance.

Cuddlesworth

Leading back to the original topic, not only is Blue-ray diode production taking a nose dive, but cell yields dont seem to be getting any better. And IBM's servers are selling like hotcakes at the mo, coupling that with demand from the x-box 360 (for cell cpu's) and you see a huge shortage in the market for a launching console that was never meant to be there this far into its release.

September seems optimistic.

(Won't be buying one, don't need to spend that much money on a glorified pc thats a nightmare for any coder)

quad_red

krazy_8s wrote:

And IBM's servers are selling like hotcakes at the mo, coupling that with demand from the x-box 360 (for cell cpu's) and you see a huge shortage in the market for a launching console that was never meant to be there this far into its release.

Er, whilst made by IBM, the 360's cpu is a tri core xenon power pc chip, isn't it?

Anyway, that's neither here nor there. Lifting a note from topgear - what's the point of power if you can't apply it on the road? If the anecdotal evidence is to be believed, the PS3 is a difficult platform to develop for. This should at least delay any realisation of the PS3's marginal technical superiority for a good while.

In the meantime, one shall be able to enjoy similiarly stratospheric graphics on the 360 for less money.

ambro25

After all that, and in reply to the actual topic... Europe might get the PS3 earlier after all, since US stock is apparently/allegedly/reportedly not shifting

quad_red

a September launch will make all that much of a difference over a March launch.

Fanboys will buy whether it's March or September and the average consumer won't buy a console in summer time (even in a March launch adequate numbers probably wouldn't be available for months).

The big test will be next Christmas and one would assume that Sony will have sufficient pieces produced and distributed by that point to contest the Christmas market in Europe.

thefinalstage

quad_red wrote:

a September launch will make all that much of a difference over a March launch.

Fanboys will buy whether it's March or September and the average consumer won't buy a console in summer time (even in a March launch adequate numbers probably wouldn't be available for months).

The big test will be next Christmas and one would assume that Sony will have sufficient pieces produced and distributed by that point to contest the Christmas market in Europe.

I have the damn thing reserved .

I would buy a 60 gig one right now from that pile!

AceCard Jones

The PS3 is hard to develop for?
I have read quite the opposite on many sites, I even heard that Armored Core 4's development for the 360 has stopped due to developing for the console being so awkward in comparison to the PS3 which is still on the way.

ambro25 wrote:

After all that, and in reply to the actual topic... Europe might get the PS3 earlier after all, since US stock is apparently/allegedly/reportedly not shifting

Read the first two comments at the bottom of that article.;)

Ciaran500

AceCard Jones wrote:

The PS3 is hard to develop for?
I have read quite the opposite on many sites, I even heard that Armored Core 4's development for the 360 has stopped due to developing for the console being so awkward in comparison to the PS3 which is still on the way.

lol, Where are you reading this?

And AC 4 is still coming to the 360.

quad_red

AceCard Jones wrote:

The PS3 is hard to develop for?
I have read quite the opposite on many sites, I even heard that Armored Core 4's development for the 360 has stopped due to developing for the console being so awkward in comparison to the PS3 which is still on the way.

Really? I haven't seen anything like that. Guys like John McCormack have come out and said that the 360 is far easier to develop for.

Ri_Nollaig

ambro25 wrote:

After all that, and in reply to the actual topic... Europe might get the PS3 earlier after all, since US stock is apparently/allegedly/reportedly not shifting

also and everyone is happy with this one! ebay touts got screwed over http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3-grey-market/feature-the-decline-of-the-ps3-grey-market-224984.php

AceCard Jones wrote:

Read the first two comments at the bottom of that article.;)

read the third...

Minto

Mossy Monk wrote:

if this was the case then i would buy an xbox 360

I did and i've never looked back! Just don't go playing it on HD TVs unless you have one, cos I did and now I can't stand playing it on my sh*tty TV!

Back on topic, for Sony's sake I hope its untrue, because several friends of mine are going to go the Xbox route if it doesn't come out in March! I don't imagine they are the only people who will either!

Cuddlesworth

quad_red wrote:

Er, whilst made by IBM, the 360's cpu is a tri core xenon power pc chip, isn't it?

Its a tri-core cell cpu(3 cell cpus on 1 core), ps3 is one higher clocked cell cpu with 7 support cores(I think) and Ibm servers are Banked Cell cpu's. All made by Ibm, patented by Ibm, produced by Ibm and made in the same fabrication process. Which is under huge strain and not producing anywhere near the number of cpu's for demand.

I think this is here or there, price drops are not likely with componant costs riding rather then falling, Blue ray more so then the Cpu. And shortages mean delayed shipments of something that is going to be popular weither we like it or not.

quad_red wrote:

In the meantime, one shall be able to enjoy similiarly stratospheric graphics on the 360 for less money.

And queing.

McDermotX

Guys,
there's no point comparing CPUs......they are completely different technologies.
Without wanting to fan the flames here, its almost like comparing apples and oranges..
The "Waternoose" or Xenon CPU used in the 360 is a relatively standard 3-core CPU based on the PowerPC IBM architecture........The PS3's Cell CPU is a derivative of the Cell architecture designed by STI (Sony, Toshiba, IBM).
There are advantages and disadvantages to both techs, but the Cell on paper, could prove to be an entirely new standard for IT grunt. Whether this potential will ever be realised on the PS3 in another matter entirely.
They are as far away from each other technically as is possible with processor development.
In development CPU-wise, MS have gone for a more grounded architecture with proven performance, whereas Sony have gone for a new, potentially stunning, technology which may prove beyond a lot of developers or those with limited resources.
It is a brave move from Sony, but the potential benefits are excellent, that is not to say the 360's CPU is no slouch either, just more familiar, technically speaking.

ambro25

Ri_Nollaig wrote:

ebay touts got screwed over

ah, well, now that's just the cherry on the cake

Note to others - despite having owned several iterations of the PS1 and both the breeze block and slim PS2 over the years, yes, I am a shameless Sony basher, I have been for over 2 years now, ever since the first Sony/LikSang (and others) debacle (not the second one that led to LK's demise, btw).

Truth be told, it's fairly pleasing to witness years of growing, utter corporate arrogance being put in its place in the only possible manner to get the mesage across loud and clear: the punters' wallet vote.

(erm... it's also fairly pleasing to be vindicated )

The only real danger is whether this eventually grows to 1984-alike proportions (2006 Sony has certainly reminded me of 1984 Atari), and the whole thing goes "poof"

Vyse

AceCard Jones wrote:

........ I even heard that........

Brilliant!!!

Anyway I wouldn't be overly suprised if the PS3 didn't hit it's March deadline but I would still expect it to hit before Summer '07. I think if they don't launch by early May then there's little point in launching until September. The summer time is tradionally a very slow time for the games market.

Fizman

Currently on Komplett: "302 pcs expected on stock 2007-03-19"

Currenty on Play.com: "Due for release on 07/03/2007"


Looks like they are just plucking figures out of the sky.

Karmafaerie

Fizman wrote:

Currently on Komplett: "302 pcs expected on stock 2007-03-19"

Currenty on Play.com: "Due for release on 07/03/2007"


Looks like they are just plucking figures out of the sky.

It's just as likely that Sony are telling everyone something different to muddy the water.

In fact, this whole delay rumour could have been started by Sony, to drum up more desperation for the March release.

Fizman

It is a possibility I guess, after all it is Sony.
I emailed Komplett regarding ordering one to get some info...reply:

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your enquiry.

We can confirm that the amount shown on the website is the amount left for you to order.
The date given is an estimation from the supplier, so can not be guaranteed, I'm afraid.
The website will be updated with new information as we get it from the supplier.

Hope this helps.

Best regards
Komplett
Best Wishes for 2007!

GrumPy

AceCard Jones wrote:

The PS3 is hard to develop for?
I have read quite the opposite on many sites, I even heard that Armored Core 4's development for the 360 has stopped due to developing for the console being so awkward in comparison to the PS3 which is still on the way.

lol.

andyps2.5

Well i think sony can't push the date any futher. If they do playstation magazines will give sony more bad atilicles. But I really think after the PS3 riot(which you view on youtube.com) there not likly to do anything that piss people off.

history_buff

Ruu wrote:

A couple of places say September 1st and some say November 17th. Amazon.co.uk has it down as March 2007 as do Play.com.

What concerns me is that they haven't given a specific date in March, though all signs point to a March 30 release, if you go by the game schedule.

andyps2.5

history_buff wrote:

What concerns me is that they haven't given a specific date in March, though all signs point to a March 30 release, if you go by the game schedule.

Well I found some games are going to be released on the 16th. I don't think the site is reliable for Ireland but I’d like to think the ps3 is coming earlier than the 30th.