The perils of buying off the plans - Richmond Hall

Cantab.

http://www.neighbours.ie/dublin3/showthread.php?t=9&page=4

I do feel sorry for a lot of these guys - I believe a lot of these flats were sold in the spring/summer frenzy of 2006...

Some of the most horrifying quotes:

"I have completed the final snag and am ready to close. my solicitor has been trying to get in contact with the builders solicitors (Maguire) for quiet some time now and he finally cornered them today - the reason Maguire havent been knocking down our doors to close is because they dont have all the necessary legal documentation for closing. As mention in a post some time ago they still do not have the HB11 doc (HomeBonds insurance) - this is where an engineer needs to verify the building size is what they say it is.
Also, and even more worrying, the solicitor has not got the appropriate documentation from the Dublin Corporation to say that they have adhered correctly to the planning permission laws in regards to affordable housing. In between the legal jargon my solicitor was using i took it that Dublin Corpo are not willing to release the legal document saying that this development is in accordance with the planning permission rules. I have asked my solicitor to detail this in an email for me so i can try to better understand the overall situation.

In short (according to my solicitor) it is an unauthorised development and this rangling between Maguire and the Corpo has been ongoing for 18months now - how long more it will drag on i dont know. We can buy the property but my solicitor has recommended against it until he finds out more."

"Those heaters are not what it states in the brochure-why is the bedroom heater slimline and the others are not. I am very disappointed with this. I have viewed lots of apts before buying this one and have never seen the like of this before. They are going regardless!"

"Agreed, there seems to have been lots of random statements made lately alright. Also builders solicitors are unresponsive so no sign of them wanting to close. I thought they would have been looking to bank the cash pre xmas."

"Everyone should be careful with water run off from the balconies (i.e., from balconies above your apartment). The balconies on the top floor are rather large (and they have no guttering system, which should be questioned). This is causing water run off to trickle down along the walls which will lead to green discoloration in the future, but worse, it may cause water to seep in through the windows/patio-doors or just cause damp exterior walls. When snagging, carefully check for this."

"I got in to see the apartment last weekend and the balcony was totally waterlogged. There were water stains seeping into the sitting room from one of the sloped rooves - because of no guttering. The floor in the sitting room is so uneven I couldnt lay floors. The apartment is supposed to have features that were in the agents brochure and in the plans submitted to dublin planning but have none of them in reality. I haven't done a snag and am going to hold out until I get satisfaction."

So watch out everybody if someone tries to sell you one of these flats on the cheap!

Sponge Bob

LOL , another shoddy shoebox in Dublin , I am so surprised.

Elcaro

Sponge Bob wrote:

LOL , another shoddy shoebox in Dublin , I am so surprised.

I have actually seen the inside of these apartments and they are quite well finished, far from shoddy. A lot better that some other developments (I wont mention out of politeness) which I have viewed.

Of course, every development (off the plans) runs into delays of some sort, be it legal or otherwise. 6 months is typical.
And there will always be structural issues; that's why there is a snagging process, so that they can be addressed.

If you want to see a shoebox, view a 1990's 55 sqm 2 bedroom apartment! New appartments must abide to tighter regulations.

godtabh

I've bought off plans and am happy enough in what I've done.

Some people buy off plans not being able to understand the drawings which wasnt a problem for me.

Some people buy off plans thinking they may never get another chance. Again wasnt a problem for me.

Not all situations are the same

Sponge Bob

Looks to me that the vendors solicitors will not give an undertaking to the purchasers solicitors that all the correct documents will appear and until they do give undertakings the process is logjammed.

Its a bad sign when solicitors cannot or will not give a clear undertaking, it means they themselves suspect that planning may not be forthcoming or that there may be title problems with land or both.

At least the purchasers solicitor is earning his or her crust on this one

Cantab.

Sponge Bob wrote:

Looks to me that the vendors solicitors will not give an undertaking to the purchasers solicitors that all the correct documents will appear and until they do give undertakings the process is logjammed.

Its a bad sign when solicitors cannot or will not give a clear undertaking, it means they themselves suspect that planning may not be forthcoming or that there may be title problems with land or both.

At least the purchasers solicitor is earning his or her crust on this one

That's a certainty (just like death is).

I've heard that there is dodginess about the land down there alright. I also heard the place wasn't built in accordance with the planning permission. The interesting question would be: who has to pay to sort all this mess out? The owners or the developer? What happens if some of the apartments have been sold and others are still owned by the development company? Is the company only then liable for the percentage of flats they still own? Indeed, who was the company (so we can watch out for them?!), and is this company still trading? Only in cute-hoor Ireland would you hear of situations like this...

Looks very complicated (indeed messy, stressful and time-consuming).

Sponge Bob

Cantab. wrote:

That's a certainty (just like death is).
I've heard that there is dodginess about the land down there alright.

but that happens a lot, lost deeds etc. It should not be a showstopper and undertakings are a mechanism for dealing with it.

I also heard the place wasn't built in accordance with the planning permission.

again its not a showstopper unless the variances are sizeable. You would need to grind thru the files in the corpo though.

The interesting question would be: who has to pay to sort all this mess out? The owners or the developer?

why the owners, of course, if they do not make the developer do it. Once the developer gets his money and there are no undertakings in place then the developer is 100% in the clear.

What happens if some of the apartments have been sold and others are still owned by the development company? Is the company only then liable for the percentage of flats they still own? Indeed, who was the company (so we can watch out for them?!), and is this company still trading? Only in cute-hoor Ireland would you hear of situations like this...

ooooh my head messy messy permutations there.

Looks very complicated (indeed messy, stressful and time-consuming).

again thats where your solicitor has to be on the ball . If I knew someone looking at a place like this I would tell them to do what their solicitor says and wait.

The developer will pull the stops out UNTIL he gets his money.