Dangerous animals legislation

Mr. Presentable

What, if any, are the enforcable laws in this country regarding the ownership and handling of "dangerous" dogs? Are there breeds required by law to be muzzled, leashed, not permitted for breeding etc?

tallus

As far as i know Pitbull terriers are supposed to be muzzled. Not sure about the rest of the breeds.

trout

nipplenuts wrote:

What, if any, are the enforcable laws in this country regarding the ownership and handling of "dangerous" dogs? Are there breeds required by law to be muzzled, leashed, not permitted for breeding etc?

I was researching that very question over the Christmas ... the Control of Dogs act lists the following breeds ...

(a) American Pit Bull Terrier,
(b) Bull Mastiff,
(c) Doberman Pinscher,
(d) English Bull Terrier,
(e) German Shepherd (Alsatian),
(f) Japanese Akita,
(g) Japanese Tosa,
(h) Rhodesian Ridgeback,
(i) Rottweiler,
(j) Staffordshire Bull Terrier

According to the Regs, when in a public place these dogs must be (i) securely muzzled; and (ii) led by a sufficiently strong chain or leash, not exceeding two metres in length, by a person over the age of sixteen years who is capable of controlling the said dog.

check out this link -> http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI442Y1998.html

Ruu_Old

Similar to the above, from the Citizens Information website.

Rules relating to certain breeds of dog

The Control of Dogs Regulations 1998 (S.I. No. 442 of 1998) impose additional rules in relation to the following breeds (and strains/cross-breeds) of dog in Ireland:

* American Pit Bull Terrier
* English Bull Terrier
* Staffordshire Bull Terrier
* Bull Mastiff
* Dobermann Pinscher
* German Shepherd (Alsatian)
* Rhodesian Ridgeback
* Rottweiler
* Japanese Akita
* Japanese Tosa
* Bandog

The rules state that:

* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be kept on a short strong lead by a person over 16 years who is capable of controlling them
* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must be muzzled whenever they are in a public place
* These dogs (or strains and crosses of them) must wear a collar bearing the name and address of their owner at all times.

The rules on muzzling and leashing do not apply to dogs used by the Gardai, the Dublin Harbour Police, State Airport Police and bona fide rescue teams in rescue operations. The rules on muzzling do not apply to guide dogs for the blind.

Gillie

Well that's me fecked!
I don't muzzle my GSD. I bring him where I know there will be very few if any ppl.
If I come across other ppl I will put him on a lead straight away.
Probably not good enough in most ppl's eyes but there ya go.

Do other ppl who own the dogs on the list use a muzzle?
How come Black Labs are not on this list?

Dave!

Boxers are of Mastiff descent, so does that qualify as a "strain or cross" of a Bull Mastiff? Or are that too tenuous a link?

Just wanna make sure I'm in the right in not muzzling my Boxer! Not that she'd ever need it mind you -- I'd be more worried about her pushing someone over than biting them!

superdudeman007

The muzzling rules do not apply to guide dogs for the blind.

How many blind people have alsations/pit bulls/rottweilers???

johnnyrotten

It amazes me , the amount of muppets with their pitbulls or Staff with no muzzle or lead. A lot of people have these dogs as a fashion item.
The law is not enforced

Gillie

superdudeman007 wrote:

How many blind people have alsations/pit bulls/rottweilers???

Some would have alsations but probably not the other two.

DaveMcG wrote:

Just wanna make sure I'm in the right in not muzzling my Boxer! Not that she'd ever need it mind you -- I'd be more worried about her pushing someone over than biting them!

I feel the same about my GSD but the person who meets me doesn't know that!
To be fair if I meet (and I have done) someone with a Rottie and no lead/muzzle, no amount of "Ah he won't touch ya" will make me feel better!

There is a requirement to enforce this legislation but I would question why some dogs are NOT on that list!

Kojak

Gillie wrote:

Some would have alsations but probably not the other two

Alsations wouldn't make good guide dogs - they are 2 excitable. In my experience, I haven't seen too many that are guide dogs, its always labradors.

I have a neighbour who owns 2 alsations and who never puts a muzzle on them. There's no need as they are harmless, but that only them 2 - I can see why these dogs need to have muzzles, leads etc.

Why aren't collies (i.e. sheep dogs) required to wear muzzles?? - these dogs can be as vicious (or more so) than many on the list above.

Gillie

Kojak wrote:

Why aren't collies (i.e. sheep dogs) required to wear muzzles?? - these dogs can be as vicious (or more so) than many on the list above.

Well said!

Nuttzz

Two Staffordshire Bull Terriers (I call them pitbulls but people in the know tell me they are staffordshire) sometimes enter the car park of our offices from the garden of a house behind us.

They roam on a elevated platform which puts them at head height when we are going to our cars, while they have yet to attack they are quite aggressive to us as we go into our cars. I have reported them to the dog warden a number of times but they have done nothing, the owners just scorn at us. I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

/edit they are not muzzled, leashed or collared and roam freely and are two grown (one male one female) adult dogs

Gillie

Nuttzz wrote:

Two Staffordshire Bull Terriers (I call them pitbulls but people in the know tell me they are staffordshire) sometimes enter the car park of our offices from the garden of a house behind us.

They roam on a elevated platform which puts them at head height when we are going to our cars, while they have yet to attack they are quite aggressive to us as we go into our cars. I have reported them to the dog warden a number of times but they have done nothing, the owners just scorn at us. I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

Why have the Wardens done nothing? Have they spoken to you?
Have you tried annoying the Gardaí also?

Might be worth getting some footage of the dog(s) being aggressive towards your staff?

nando

Subject to sub-article (2), these Regulations shall apply to every:—

( a ) American Pit Bull Terrier,
( b ) Bulldog,
( c ) Bull Mastiff,
( d ) Dobermann Pinscher,
( e ) English Bull Terrier,
( f ) German Shepherd (Alsatian),
( g ) Japanese Akita,
( h ) Japanese Tosa,
( i ) Rhodesian Ridgeback,
( j ) Rottweiler and
( k ) Staffordshire Bull Terrier and

^^ That's the list I found for restriction of certain breeds - that would need to be on a leash and muzzled in public.

Greyhounds must also be on a leash and a person cannot be in charge of more than 4 greyhounds at a time in a public place.

I totally agree that there are other breeds which are much more likely to bite than those on the list. Those on the list are very strong though, so I suppose more likely to cause greater damage if they attack.

Working with dogs every day in a situation where they are generally afraid and likely to be in pain I personally have found that the breed of dog most likely to bite is a West Highland White Terrier, so much so that I have met only one Westie that didn't try and bite staff working with it. But the damage a Westie can do is limited due to its size - it is unlikely to succeed in mauling me.

On the other hand the breed I would trust the most regardless of how much pain they are in would be a Greyhound/Lurcher. From the list above I would consider Bulldogs and Staffies likely to be very aggressive to other dogs but no more likely than any other breed to be agressive to people.

I would like to know how they came up with that specific list though - what research was done and what were their criteria for imposing extra restrictions.

Nuttzz - definitely inform the local Garda station of the problem if the wardens have not done something.

Jotter

I find the list to be a bit stupid to be honest. To me the breed of dog isnt a good indicator of aggression, the level of socialisation and responsible ownership is. I know they picked the breeds likely to do most damage if they do attack but I think that all owners when they go to buy licence should be made take part in a 5 hour obedience training school, they get a provisional licence to start and if they fail to attend then they dont get full licence and can be prosecuted. All dog owners when walking their dogs should be subject to the possibility of being asked to produce their licence (same as car licence) that way the people who buy dogs as tough fashion accessories might ( i repeat might) take proper responsibilty for their new pet! I know its prob not practical but it just bugs me when I see hard men walking their pitbull/rottie and I wonder do they have any idea how to properly look after their pet or are they just after the look.

Nuttzz

Will contact the gardai maybe they can do something about it, thanks guys

FranknFurter

Nuttzz wrote:

I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

The guards are your best option tbh.

(Having a "legally held" shotgun does not allow you to shoot any animal just because you *feel* it *may* be a threat to others. As you should know if you have one.
If the animal was in the process of attacking or being about to attack you, your property or your staff, then "maybe" you might not be prosecuted).

If the animal is on your land however, (dont know if you own or rent the offices and car parking area?) then as your first step you should inform the owners that they (and their animals), are not allowed on your land and that they will be reported to the guards as trespassing if they do. And that they will be prosecuted. Either do it in person or letter.

I understand your frustration however it is not the dogs that are at fault, it is their owners irresponsible behaviour that is at fault. It is THEIR responsibility to keep their animals out of your car park and secure in their own property.
It is the dogs owners who should be punished, not the animals who are only doing what they feel allowed to do.

B

hotlips_h

Kojak wrote:

Alsations wouldn't make good guide dogs - they are 2 excitable. In my experience, I haven't seen too many that are guide dogs, its always labradors.

The Irish Guide Dog association do indeed use German Shepherds. There are a few pictured in the book "Independence" that they brought out recently. They also mention them on their website:
http://guidedog.web59.thomascrosbieholdings.com/?cat=22

Tabitharose

Gillie wrote:

How come Black Labs are not on this list?

why would black labs specifically (as opposed to chocolate or yellow) be on the list they are all the same breed just different colours - do you just not like the black ones?

Jules

All dogs from Westies/yorkies/chihuahua to rotts/mastiffs/pitbulls should wear muzzles when out in public places. I have had more problems with small dogs then large ones. I think it is just responsible pet ownership to have some kind of restraint on your pet when out in mixing with other dogs and people!

racso1975

How come Black Labs are not on this list?

Whats the problem with them?

Gillie

Tabitharose wrote:

why would black labs specifically (as opposed to chocolate or yellow) be on the list they are all the same breed just different colours - do you just not like the black ones?

Sorry I should have clarified that.
In my experience a lot of them are quite vicious!

Of course that doesn't mean that they all are!

peasant

jules80 wrote:

All dogs from Westies/yorkies/chihuahua to rotts/mastiffs/pitbulls should wear muzzles when out in public places. I have had more problems with small dogs then large ones. I think it is just responsible pet ownership to have some kind of restraint on your pet when out in mixing with other dogs and people!

A muzzle for every dog?
Surely you meant to type "lead" instead of "muzzle" ...yes?

Jules

No peasant i ment muzzle, when out in public every dog should wear one! no matter bog or small, as i have stated before i have had more troble with little yorkies and westies than with larger breeds!

lightening

Nuttzz wrote:

while they have yet to attack they are quite aggressive to us as we go into our cars. I have reported them to the dog warden a number of times but they have done nothing, the owners just scorn at us. I have a legally held shotgun and i am tempted to destroy them, i'd rather not but I worry about the safety of my staff but would like to hear any ideas/opinions before taking such a serious step

I guarantee you, one man walking around a car park with a loaded gun is more dangerous than staff bull terriers. Further more, a dog unnecessarily injured can be dangerous to people.

Gillie

jules80 wrote:

No peasant i ment muzzle, when out in public every dog should wear one! no matter bog or small, as i have stated before i have had more troble with little yorkies and westies than with larger breeds!

Would it not suffice to have the dog on a lead only?

Jules

no it would not, not all the time leads can slip, break etc and people can approach your dog in a manner in which you feel is ok but can be a threat to your dog. Yeah you might say its a bit over the top but tbh a blank rule would be able to be policed much better than certain breeds as then you have crosses etc.

peasant

Why is a "dangerous dog" dangerous?

It is not because it is of a certain breed but because its owner has not trained it properly (or, even worse, explicitly trained it to be aggressive).
This applies to all dogs, big or small.

It is therefore not a certain class of dog that is "dangerous" but a certain class of owner. Usually (in the case of big dogs) it's the same "class" of owner that couldn't give a hoot about rules and regulations anyway ...and certainly not about the "dangerous dog act", because, let's face it, they will never control or muzzle their dogs in public because they deliberatly got them to intimidate people with them. So in these cases, the "dog control act" is about as effective as trying to control gun crime by telling people that there must be a cork in the barrel of their gun at all times ...laughable !

In the case of small(er) dogs, it's the kind of owner who has no clue about the hirarchical structure that is necessary when training a dog, but instead hug and kiss their little darling into a position where Pooch thinks the world is his/hers to rule according to their will ...anyone who doesn't share this view gets snarled at or bitten.

In both cases the dog has to suffer the consequences of its owner's shortcomings by being declared dangerous, be muzzled or even put down.

This is wrong.

Not the dog should be punished, but the owner !

Jules

peasant, as with the pb vs crossbredd thread, we are not gonna change peoples attitudes towards dogs and training etc, therefor to protect dogs from stupid owners they should be muzzled think about it logically!

peasant

Oh yeah right ...because a certain number of people is too stupid / irresponsible / sociopathic to take proper care of their dogs, "we" (...who's "we", btw?) must of course therefore muzzle all dogs in public ...

... logical, surely

What do they put in your breakfast these days, jules?

You do realize, do you, that muzzle actually causes great discomfort to a dog?
It prevents it from panting properly, it prevents it from barking properly, it seriously hampers inter-doggy cummunication by altering/distorting the body language signals that are transmitted via facial expressions, it prevents a dog from sniffing things properly ...never mind drinking or eating.

And that a dog actually has to get trained to accept a muzzle is another issue.

Jules

i dont know what kind of muzzles you use.. but if proper ones are gotten and that fit correctly they are fine. and also can drink through them. And obviously you still have not gotten off your high horse!