DIY Tiling - a lot of it!!!

Kashkai

Yeah I know, another "how do you do tiling" thread.

However, now that our house is almost complete, funds are running VERY low and after getting some obscene quotes for tiling (I know they have to make a living but some of them are charging more for the work than what the tiles cost!!!) we ,i.e. the wife, has decided that we, i.e. me, will do the tiling ourselves, i.e. myself.:rolleyes:

Now I've never done any tiling before and I have the following to tile:
a 24 ft x 21 ft kitchen
a 8 ft x 13 ft Utility/Toilet
a 13 ft x 9 ft bathroom
a 6 ft x 6ft ensuite
a 9 ft x 5 ft ensuite

How the hell do you do it? I have gotten loads of advice which to be honest is putting me off doing the job even more than before I asked for the advice. Getting the tiles to run straight is the main problem as to end up with a row of tiles that are deviating away from a wall would drive me mad. I want to get this job done prior to the kitchen/bathroom stuff being installed as I would then avoid having to cut tiles to fit around fixtures and fittings.

Can someone please give me a basic lesson in tiling, i.e. for floor tiles-
How do you get floor tiles to run straight vis-a-vis walls that may or may not be square
How do you get tiles level with the adjoining tiles
How do you get the spacing correct
How can you avoid having thin strips of tiles at the edges of the room

For wall tiles,
Why do you need to place a strip of wood a tile length up from the shower tray/skirting board. Why can't you just tile from the ground up?

If there's anything else I need to know tell me please as it will cost a small fortune to put any mistakes right.

delly

Tried my first bit of tiling a while ago as I always thought it was a pretty straight forward thing to do. What I learned was that 'tiling' i.e. physically fixing the tiles to the wall is no problem, what isn't so easy is getting a perfect finish with grouting and levels and the last 10% really makes a difference in how it looks.

Best of luck.

r3nu4l

Not sure if this will help or not for the floor tiling.

Try this too for wall tiling.

All courtesy of the B&Q website...try a google for 'DIY tiling tutorial' and see if any of it helps.

Best of luck

Macy

I'll try and help, as I did our kitchen to as good a standard as other rooms we got a pro in to do. However, to get the same finish it took me weeks whereas he was in and out in day This is just how I did it, but I in no way claim to be an expert.

How do you get floor tiles to run straight vis-a-vis walls that may or may not be square
I assumed the walls were square tbh. Just pick the walls it'll be most noticeable if they're not. In our kitchen I picked the two with the doors. I marked the half way distances and drew the straight lines on the floor with chalk/ marker using a straight edge of 2 by 1. Lay out the tiles dry first and see how it looks. This is one of the most time consuming bits, but the first line is the most important. After that it's easy enough. I then nailed a straight edge for the first course. You do have a certain period of time before the cement drys so don't panic if you're not happy with it.

How do you get tiles level with the adjoining tiles
Ideally the floors would've been levelled using self leveling compound, so after that you use the adhesive thickness really and I used a spirit level.

How do you get the spacing correct
Floor tile spacers available at any DIY store.

How can you avoid having thin strips of tiles at the edges of the room
Depends on how you centre and lay the tiles out and how much time you want to spend on that part of the process. My tip would be to get a manual tile cutter for this as it's much quicker than the cutting machines for straight cuts.

Why do you need to place a strip of wood a tile length up from the shower tray/skirting board
The shower tray and skirting board my not be level, and the wood supports the weight of the tiles while they dry.

Tips:

1. The DIY books will give you the basics of laying out tiles and that. I've got the Readers Digest DIY one which is fine for basics like this
2. Have a manual cutter for straight edges, save the electric one for fiddly ones
3. Get a mixer bit for a drill if you're getting the bags of adhesive/ grout for the floor tiles.
4. If the floor hasn't been levelled, use self levelling compound first (and my tip for that would be mix as much as possible for each pore).

tbh though, after doing the rooms I did and having the remainder done by a tradesman, I'd spend the extra on the tradesman if you can possibly afford it, especially if time is a consideration.

yop

Dave, it all depends on how "DIYER" you are, if you know that you have no DIY bone in your body walk away from this because if you mess it up it looks cat and is a costly mistake to make, with paint this can be painted over, tiling is harder to camoflage (sp!).

If you have all square rooms then you would have a chance doing the floors, again as the lads said above, they have to be level or very close to level otherwise you are fighting a hard battle tring to compensate with adhesive.

To give you are idea of what end cuts you are going to be left with "dry tile" a line up and down and across the rooms, adjust according until you have a nice even cut on both sides or just one large cut tile at the end.

The right tools are essential, you can rent a good tile cutter, especially if you are laying porcelain or large tiles (say 300*600) you will need a decent tile cutter.
Good long level, tile nips, floor and wall trowel, grouting squeegy or rubber bottomed trowl for grouting, a wet saw if you can get one is handy for cutting around door jams and sockets and window boards.
A pencil or washable marker, tape & spacers.

Kashkai

Thanks for the advice lads. The wife is keen for me to do the tiling myself as I can manage just about every other painting, plumbing, electrical job myself. However, I know if I make a mess of the tiling, I'll be looking at it for years and its this point thats putting me off.

FX Meister

Start with the smallest and least used/seen areas first to develope your skills and see how you get on.

Macy

yop wrote:

Good long level, tile nips, floor and wall trowel, grouting squeegy or rubber bottomed trowl for grouting, a wet saw if you can get one is handy for cutting around door jams and sockets and window boards.
A pencil or washable marker, tape & spacers.

Forgot about all them. Also I got a tool for finishing the grouting that had changeable tips for different width spaces.

DublinDilbert

Dave,

don't be put off by it, it's just another challange!!! it's not that bad, but i'd advise that you start with the utility room and make all your mistakes there....

With tiling it's very hard to notice the mistakes till after it's all done, that's why it's so important to plan, plan and plan, before you start.... have it clear in your head and your work area marked out before you stick any tiles down...

measure up your work areas, make sure its square, if its slightly off square work out a way to hide the fact they are slightly off square, maybe one wall isn't as critial as the other....

A chalk line can be good for putting down floor tiles... if you have a long hallway to do, snap a calk line right down the center of it, and work off it either side....

Have a look at some other tiling jobs and see how the tricky bits are done... I noticed one kitchen floor, it looks excellent, there are large square tiles ( 4 colours mixed together ) but around the edeg the tiler split the tiles across the diagonals, so each large square tile yeilded 4 small triangles... and these triangles were arranged into a square to make a border around the edge... it looks great..

Oh yea with floor tiles people always notice the bit around the door way.

hunnymonster

We did our house and it really isn't a problem. Allow plenty of time and move slowly. Start with a little used area and within a couple of hours you'll be perfect. If it suits the design of your house choose a tile with an irrlegular edge for your first spot as these are more forgiving. Lay them out first (with spacers or at least approx gaps) to make sure you don't have slithers at the edges. Use your spirit level continiously: even the slightest uneveness will drive you nuts for years. Every two rows, stand up and look (admire) your work from different angles. When your stooped down you may not notice small things. If you can beg, borrow or steal an electric cutter it makes light work of it. Ditto knee pads. Borrow a friend for the first session, two heads are better than one when you're figuring things out. Stock up on your favourite music, you'll be there a while.

patrickolee

Don't be worried, it easier than you might think, (but is time consuming and tedious!) Just take it slowly and don't plan to the do the whole lot at the speed of a professional tiler. Plenty of cups of tea and get the wife to help, you could do the tile cutting and let her do the glue spreading. It'll make her appreciate how brilliantly fast you have been working and less likely to complain about the pace of progress

About the worrying if everything squares up, if your walls are not regular, you could try to run them all at an angle? You won't notice the irregularities quite so badly then. Thats what we did for the kitchen, followed the line between the two doors. It does make the room look longer and looks quite well, but it did complicate the tile cutting around corners.

FrankGrimes

have some sturdy cardboard on hand and use it for getting awkward cuts right first time: put the cardboard down as if it was a tile, mark the awkward bits that need cutting, and cut to shape with a scissors, cutting too little instead of too much off. Keep trimming till it's the exact fit, then use this cardboard as a stencil and trace onto a tile - if you can cut the tile exactly along those lines you'll have perfect fitting tile first time instead of doing trial and error with expensive tiles. I use a small angle grinder for many of my cuts, dangerous tool in the wrong hands though.

I haven't done floor tiling yet, and wall tiling I found pretty handy as you can easily use tiling gauges (see the Readers Digest DIY book) and once these are level you have an easy starting point. Might be an idea to do walls first to get into practice if you have any? I'll be starting a floor job in a T-shaped floor space in my kitchen soon and it is playing on my mind how to get the layout right. Trial and error with dry tiles before mixing the adhesive will probably be what I end up doing.

Be warned - the rapid set adhesive is workable for a relatively short period of time, and one minute its workable, the next its starting to set and is unworkable within minutes so don't mix too much at a time. You can get wall tile adhesive in buckets, more expensive but easier to work with.

Cmar-Ireland

It's been mentioned already, but I cannot stress enough the importance of laying out the tiles dry first. Start by see if the room is square, i.e opposite walls exactly the same distance apart along the whole length. If the walls are 100% square, then you will have a much easiser job. Decide if you want full tiles on the obvious wall and cut tiles against a less noticable side. You can start laying tiles from the wall or mark the floor to suit. Self mix adhesive is cheaper, but messier than readymix. Instead of the little cross spacers, buy strips of thin timber (to suit what size grout space you want) and cut into 25mm lengths.
Think about tiling patterns, maybe start every second row with a half tile.
Work slowly and carefully, don't use quickset and you will have time to correct mistakes.

ctrl-alt-delete

Cmar-Ireland wrote:

Instead of the little cross spacers, buy strips of thin timber (to suit what size grout space you want) and cut into 25mm lengths.

I don't think this man will have time to do this to be honest, and if you dont mind me saying it seems a bit stupid to go to that effort. The tile spacers are perfect and are designed for the job, they are not susceptibke to water. I wouldn't start a job without them, if you start square of one wall (chances are the room will not be square) these spacers will keep everything squared up for you.

As has already been mentioned dry lay every tile first before you even begin to lay any. Have a look at all your options - take into account where you enter the room from and lay out the tiles to visually suit this.

When laying the tiles (if you have dry cut and placed them all) take up 6 or 9 tiles at a time depending on size and lay in sections - obviously not working yourself into a corner you cannot get out of. Kepp a bucket of water and a sponge with you to wipe up any adhesive that may stray onto the tiles - much easier to get off when its fresh.

Another tip is have a paint scraper - when you have layed a tile, run the scraper down the tile - removing the adhesive where there will be a grout joint before you lay the next tile - this will save you having to remove any protruding adhesive when it comes to grouting.

Most important thing is to plan it - you may feel at the time that you are wasting time - as it will take quite a bit - but its better to spend a couple of hours making sure everything is visually pleasing, rather than spending 15 years looking at a sh1t job.

you are better off also buying a wet saw - €50 odd in diy shops rather than using an angle grinder if you are not experienced. However if your tiles are tough - porcelin or whatever you may need to invest in a few blades - if you do get a wet saw - keep it well watered - this keeps the blade cool and will increase its lifespan.

good luck

Cmar-Ireland

ctrl-alt-delete wrote:

I don't think this man will have time to do this to be honest, and if you dont mind me saying it seems a bit stupid to go to that effort. The tile spacers are perfect and are designed for the job, they are not susceptibke to water. I wouldn't start a job without them, if you start square of one wall (chances are the room will not be square) these spacers will keep everything squared up for you.

I might sound like a stupid idea :rolleyes: , but believe me, it's better than the spacers. Especially if the pattern is not standard (IMO);)

But one thing for sure, if the op doesn't have the time to lay out properly, then he is better off saving up for a pro to do the job.

Sonnenblumen

The country is full of exceptionally poorly executed tiling work, public, private, large, small, simple or complex conditions. The conclusion I would take from this is, that there are many poor tilers and/or too many willing to accept sub-standard levels of finish.

I'm not a tiler but would 'borrow' to pay for good tiling. Nothing worse than shoddy finish.

Finally, in terms of cost, I would expect material costs to equate to approx 35% of overall costs, certainly labour would be equal if not greater than tile costs.

Look elsewhere to save costs, and unless you're familar I would advise
against tackling such a job.

Do-more

DublinDilbert wrote:

if you have a long hallway to do, snap a calk line right down the center of it, and work off it either side....

I tiled our hall with those small 3" marble tiles, it was a real pain...

Snapped a chalkline down the centre and then to be sure to be sure, screwed a good straight lenght of timber to the floor down the line and tiled off one side first...

Kashkai

Sonnenblumen wrote:

The country is full of exceptionally poorly executed tiling work, public, private, large, small, simple or complex conditions. The conclusion I would take from this is, that there are many poor tilers and/or too many willing to accept sub-standard levels of finish.

I'm not a tiler but would 'borrow' to pay for good tiling. Nothing worse than shoddy finish.

Finally, in terms of cost, I would expect material costs to equate to approx 35% of overall costs, certainly labour would be equal if not greater than tile costs.

Look elsewhere to save costs, and unless you're familar I would advise
against tackling such a job.

While I'd agree that a shoddy job will not only be a waste of money but will drive me nuts for years, I've taught myself to do most of the painting, electrical, plumbing etc jobs around my house after putting up with overpriced and shoddy work from so called tradesmen.

The last time we paid (expensively) for a tiler to do our floors and bathrooms, we came home from work and found that he:
1. Had adhesive plastered all over the walls, doors, skirting boards and door handles that took me an age to remove.

2. He blocked the sink with cement while washing out his tools which necessitated me having to put in a new u-bend.

3. The tiles in the shower were not sealed properly and water started to leak down through the walls to the living room beneath.

4. The tiles in the bathroom fell off one day when the wind caused the door to bang shut.

5. And finally, he helped himself to a bottle of whiskey and cigarettes that my wife had bought in the duty free for her Dad.

Lesson no. 1 was to take time off work and supervise "tradesmen"

Lesson no. 2 was not to take a recommendation for a tiler from the tile shop (who later denied recommending him as they said he was a well known "chancer" - begs the question where we got his name from and how he managed to collect our tiles from said tile shop before he started work on our house)

Lesson no. 3 is to only take someone on who is recommended by someone you know and see their work beforehand if you can

Finally, I'm going to have a go at the ensuite floor to start with. It's a small enough area and square in shape so no awkward corners to deal with. If that works out, I'll do the shower and then see where I go from there. I might still leave the larger areas to a pro but time will tell.

Thanks for all the advice and hints folks.

Dave

delly

Prosperous Dave wrote:

Finally, I'm going to have a go at the ensuite floor to start with. It's a small enough area and square in shape so no awkward corners to deal with. If that works out, I'll do the shower and then see where I go from there. I might still leave the larger areas to a pro but time will tell.

That sounds like the best plan as judging by what you have managed yourself you should be ok, but if not 'tis only a small area.