Banning children from restaurants?

bonkey

I've been in a couple of places where they had a successful attitude.

If parents couldn't control their kids, the family were asked to leave. If they objected, they were told that the restaurant made no exception for unruly behaviour from anyone and would have kicked them out had they been a group of 4 adults with 2 of them misbehaving, rather than 2 adults with unruly kids.

Strangely enough, any time I've seen it, the parents stomp out complaining about the crappy service and how they'll never go there again. Strangely enough, I don't think a single one of the copped to the fact that this was probably the ideal result for the owner/manager, who was willing to lose small amounts of business to keep large amounts.

In the two places I've seen this, I've also seen how well behaved kids were literally doted on by the staff.

eth0_

Sigh. Sure would be nice to have one day without Thayedal being so aggro :rolleyes:

Nevyn

Aggro ?

What you read into someones posting is what you read into them my dear; get over yourself here have a stepladder.

Shiminay

This is and should always have been a Parenting board post tbh, Etho_, you're a mod, you should know that!

Society seems to think it is no longer appropriate to point out other people's errors/mistakes/misdeeds/inability to control children. We've all experienced the cinema/restaurant/wherever situation where some sh1t kids are wrecking heads whilst Mammy and Daddy who have become oblivious to the whole thing cause they've been dealing with it (or more accurately, not dealing with it) for months/years. You should have said something yourself instead of waiting till you could bitch about it on the internet.

I will always try to find the parents and make a show of them. As a service industry manager I have spoken softly in the ears of people and as a customer I have screamed in the face of people and threatened severe physical damage and I usually get the desired result by picking my words carefully .

As a manager, you explain that (for example) after 9pm it is illegal for children to be in a licenced premesis and this can include not just a hotel bar, but their reception/lobby too depending on their licence. I tell them they have 5 minutes to bring the children to bed or I call the guards. I have gotten a lot of agro from some parents about me telling them their children can not run around my hotel unsupervised. I supsequently told them to go to their room and pack their bags which makes for a sudden turn around. One of them went over my head to the Duty Manager who then showed them the complaints from other guests who were demanding they not be charged for X, Y and Z because of the unruly children that ruined their whatever. He then said that he was going to pass on all these charges to the people at fault, "who happen to be you and your children. So do you want to settle 5 people's bills or just your own?" They left there and then complaining about service and all that as someone mentioned above much to the delight of everyone else. All the other complaints were happy as word had spread through the hotel very quickly that we had actually thrown the bastards out. People like seeing BIG results when they have a complaint. The outcome? 1 possible complaint and 5 or 6 very satisfied customers who admired the way we handled it.

I have had the guards call a woman's house who's children refused to stop talking during a film. I asked nicely to be quiet and stepped up the aggression each subsequent occasion. by the 5th time I stood up, told her *she* was leaving and got the manager. There was a big scene and they eventually left. Later, as I was leaving the cinema having successfully enjoyed the rest of the film, I saw them pulling off in their car and one of the afore mentioned darlings decided to give me the finger. I rang the Gardaí straight away, called out the licence plate and they made a visit which I hope frightened the sh1te outta this wonderful mother - certainly the garda I spoke with was on my side cause she was stunned by the story. This may seem a little harsh to most people, but the law won't allow me to do the right thing which would have been to whip the child and mother with a length of nylon rope until they pissed themselves (when I am president of the world, this will be the MINIMUM punishment). I'm forced to play by this society's rules which really sucks, but the police must follow up any genuine complaint received and really are not happy about having to call to anyone's house telling them their kids were reported for their behaviour whilst they were driving.

The problem lies in parental application of discipline and that's it. Banning kids from restaurants won't fix that, it's a FAR bigger problem than that. Kids seem to have lost respect for parents (gross generalisation here - don't snap!) and people in general seem to have lost respect for everyone else and so won't teach the brats what they're doing wrong. Gone are the days when if someone's kid was acting the maggot you'd give them a clip around the ear and send them on their way where their parents would give them the same and demand the child went back to apologise. This is a very big shame.

The businesses have to be brave and step in, this is very true. Too many don't/are afraid to. Ned's point about people getting onto the radio etc naming and shaming is unfortunately also highly important. We now live in a society where people think they are gods because they're paying for something. Some of you should see the way my colleagues and I get treated when someone else has done wrong. It's clearly our fault that your child won't behave. :rolleyes: I once had some parents say to me "well, you closed the pool to children at 7 - what else are they supposed to do?" I answered "madame, it's 11pm, they're supposed to be in their beds" which was met by a full blown nuclear assault by both mother and father and auntie - all of whom were swaying on their seats and slurring their words. 2 other guests chimed in on my behalf and before I knew it there was almost a brawl in the lounge! It was insanity. Eventually the crash of one of my lamps breaking ("I wonder who might have done that?" were my exact words when I heard it) and the subsequent tears ended the arguement. The additional €200 added to their bill for the new lamp caused them to cut short their trip - how unfortunate.

The point:
Speak up and take no sh1t from anyone in any circumstance! Never be afraid to get mad.

Blub2k4

I'm moving this to parenting.

parsi

eth0_ wrote:

Sigh. Sure would be nice to have one day without Thayedal being so aggro :rolleyes:

What aggro ? For once I agree with Thayedal. I don't bring my children out to resturants in the evening usually as its too late but it can be nice to go to somewhere like Milano's at lunch. It can be stressful sometimes as I look around each time they talk a tad loudly or drop their napkin in case someone is looking over glaring and wishing that those pesky kids could be kicked out. But hey my kids know that they have to behave or else we'll up and leave and they like the experience.

I do find that Continental Europe treat families better in restaurants. Maybe that's because families are encouraged to eat together and not just go to MacDonalds. I've been in France cringing when the two-year old had a tantrum and around me people are smiling and giving sympathetic glances.

eth0_

Kharn wrote:

This is and should always have been a Parenting board post tbh, Etho_, you're a mod, you should know that! .

I would have thought it was a grey area, also I knew if I put it on the parenting board it would most likely get a bad reaction from the people I was criticising in my original post

Nevyn

There is nothing wrong with criticising bad parents or parents that are failing thier children;
the people who let thier children run amok and ruined your evening post on boards and post in the parenting section ?

I doubt it.

Not all parents are the same not all parents agree and this could have been put in humanities
and etho_ if you would prefer for it to be there rather then here I will move it.

Owen

Kharn ... you've put up with some mighty grief over the past few years! Thank you for sharing your side, and your insightful views. It made for extremely interesting, and humourous reading!

Kernel32

A TV show here in the states did a social experiment a while back that I watched. They created a setup in a restaurant where I woman came in with two kids, around the ages of 6 and 8. She sat down, got on her mobile phone and the kids ran wild. She and the kids were actors. Very quickly the other female patrons complained directly to her and to the staff about her unruly kids.

They performed the same experiment again but this time with a father and two kids. They entered, sat down, he got out a newspaper and buried his head in that while the kids ran wild. Not one person made a complaint to him or to the staff.

In both cases they interviewed many of the patrons after the incident. They explained that it was all a setup. In the first case they asked those that complained, why they did and basically they felt that the kids should have been kept under control. In the second case they asked people who could be visibly seen on camera to be annoyed why they didn't complain. They didn't because they felt sorry for the guy. They guessed that maybe he was divorced or his wife was working late etc and that he had been forced to take them out to eat.

It's an interesting look at how we view mothers and fathers in a situation like that. It was also interesting that only women complained to the mother and not a single man.

Nevyn

Again the unfortunate sterotype that father's are not as good at parenting as mothers and have less responsiblity or hand on experience to deal with thier off spring

Ph3n0m

Thaedydal wrote:

Again the unfortunate sterotype that father's are not as good at parenting as mothers and have less responsiblity or hand on experience to deal with thier off spring

indeed - people have oft looked at me and quite honestly, I always felt that they thought I was some kind of pervert when I am out with my daughter (I dont look like the stereotypical "father figure") - one went even so far as to ask my daughter who I was - and I have never seen that happen before or since to other people.

That said the stereotype of fathers not being as good as mothers - well I have never found that stereotype at all. When my daughter is bold, she is punished by me - I may come down heavy on her at times, but she knows thereafter not to do it again - or atleast not get caught

Cake Fiend

ned78 wrote:

Because I would generally never directly complain in such a situation.

Why not? If you act like a doormat, you're going to keep being walked on IMO. Also, parents of children like these mightn't necessarily even realize how disruptive their brats are unless someone points it out to them - bear in mind that they're probably somewhat immune to it at this stage. I'd much rather complain (politely) to someone and hopefully have something done about it than sit and finish in irritated silence. If the parents won't do something about it, I'd go to the manager. If the manager wouldn't do something about it, I'd know where to avoid in future if I want a peaceful meal.

layke wrote:

Anyway this isn't the parenting forum

It is now! So, parents? I'm curious of your opinions.

Zynks

Cake Fiend wrote:

It is now! So, parents? I'm curious of your opinions.

My opinion is that Ireland must be the most child-unfriendly country in Europe. I am not sure what is the reason for this intolerance, but it can't be good for anyone. Yes, there are common sense rules such as expecting kids not to be out after say 8 o'clock, but the way is being put here is a case of doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Shiminay

ned78 wrote:

Kharn ... you've put up with some mighty grief over the past few years! Thank you for sharing your side, and your insightful views. It made for extremely interesting, and humourous reading!

And that's only the stuff relating to kids
Hotels are a very strange (but occasionally fun) place to work...

I should at this stage, since we've moved venue, point out that I'm not a parent (maybe some day), so can't fully appreciate the stress involved.

Very interesting about the experiment Kernel32 mentioned. I don't know why we (general all encompasing word for society) should think that 1 parent has responsibility for teaching and discipline and so on. I don't think I could stand by and left my partner/mother of kids take on all that work alone, but I have strange notions on parenting after a very interesting childhood

Personally I get *very* wound up by screaming kids , but not as much when I see parents actively trying to reign them in and not the glance in the general direction followed by a "shop that Chantalle." At the end of the day, I realise that we're all human (the kids too aparantly) and that the parents aren't always going to win (see my previous point about the nylon rope). You can't get mad with someone trying their best and not coping because of circumstance. That's when you try to help.

The Hill Billy

Kharn wrote:

You can't get mad with someone trying their best and not coping because of circumstance. That's when you try to help.

The voice of reason. The hospitality sector could do with many more with an attitude like that & the aforementioned attitude to "misbehaving" guests. Nice one Kharn!

Kashkai

Right first off, I'm a father with three kids who I love more than anything (excpt wife of course). However, I can't stand it when parents let their kids run amok in a restaraunt as its not only bloody annoying but dangerous too with waiting staff walking around with hot food, glasses, cutlery etc. If one of the misbehaving kids tripped up a waitress and caused a plate of steaming food to be thrown over someones face, who would be responsible? Probably the restaraunt who didn't have the courage to get the "couldn't be arsed" parents to control their kids.

My eldest is now 6 1/2 and has been brought into restaraunts since she was an infant. On the rare occasion that she cried we'd take her up and rock her and if this didn't work, one of us would take her outside the restaraunt to calm her so as not to disturb other diners. Now that she's grown up used to eating in a restaraunt, she knows how to behave and she's the first to roll her eyes when she sees other kids misbehaving. There was one funny incident when she once turned around to a young boy of 4 (who was screaming his head off and throwing toys around) that if he didn't shut up, her Daddy (i.e. me) would take him outside and make him stand in the car park until we were finished eating. She then gave him a dirty look and finally finished by shaking her head at his parents. It was this final act, i.e. a 6 year old tut-tutting at the parents, that shamed them into controlling their kid.

Our twins are now 1 year old and they too are pretty well behaved in restaraunts. I guess our method of bringing their food with us so they aren't left hungry while we wait, letting them have a little of our food to try and having a few toys on hands works for us. As parents you have to accept that you won't be able to have candlelit meals when the kids are with you but with a little preparation, you can ensure that you can have a nice quiet meal with your kids without upsetting anyone.

simu

As others have said, don't blame all parents for the behaviour of bad parents. I often bring my son to restaurants without a problem. He's only a baby so discipline isn't really an issue yet but if I thought he was going to go into meltdown, I would just leave pronto. I don't understand how some parents can sit back and relax while their kids go mad tbh. Banning kids from restaurants is not the way, though - Ireland is already child-unfriendly enough and relegating kids to fastfood chains is no solution in this era of rising rates of child obesity. I don't know what the solution is really - some parents seem unwilling to impose any boundaries on their kids and the repercussions of this are felt in more places than restaurants.

Talliesin

eth0_ wrote:

You never hear parents threatening children with "the man" much anymore
"MICHAEL! THE MAN is looking at you! THE MAN will put you out of the restaurant!".

My children don't know who the man is, they know me though and know I will take them out of a restaurant.

They are not perfect. I have to warn them sometimes, but they know that if they really got out of hand I will settle my bill and take them straight home and that the matter will then be discussed with my ex-wife.

I think it's important also to not just bring them to the "family-oriented" dives. Children learn by example and what they learn by seeing places full of ill-behaved brats does not compare well to what they will learn if they occasionally go to somewhere a bit less hectic (I also like them to know what proper food tastes like).

I have to say I've seen for more disruptive behaviour from adults than children.

Jotter

blue in howth is great for kids. Its a beautiful place, relaxed good food and they also provide colouring books and crayons so that kids eat and then can entertain themselves, Ive yet to see a bdaly behaved kid in the place. Seeing how kids arent allowed in pubs after a certain time then it should be same in restaurants say after 9 that way the snooty adults can go for a meal at 9 for kid free dining and the normal fun loving family oriented adults can have a family meal out anytime during the day or before 9 problem solved

Gaspode

eth0_ wrote:

I shudder to think of the amount of nights out spoiled by loud and badly behaved children.

I feel really sorry for restaurant staff who have to pick their way around in case they trip over a little brat that's running around the restaurant while his parents sit having dinner oblivious/not caring.

Its not the children at fault then, its the parents who let them behave in that way that are at fault. Children will behave as badly as their parents let them.

I've often had children with me in restaurants, and they quite simply have to stay put, eat up and behave. I wont tolerate them running around, making noise, etc., hence like yourself I've little tolerance for parents who let theirs behave like that. It makes it double hard for our children to behave when they see other kids doing what they like.

I dont think a ban on children on specific days/nights is the way to go. A bit of education and manners is all thats required.

Geek Nose

I fookin' hate kids in restuarants (ex. the extremely quiet & well behaved ones; which is a rarity, despite what certain parents on here claim). They should ban kids u12 from all restaurants, except family places - like Capt. America's, TGI Fridays, Hard Rock Café, etc....

Did anyone notice how most kids you see in restaurants behave unruly, yet everyone in this topic who has a kid, just coincidentally happens to be the well-behaved ones? Amazing...

Nevyn

Geek Nose wrote:

They should ban kids u12 from all restaurants, except family places - like Capt. America's, TGI Fridays, Hard Rock Café, etc....

I would not consider those suitible places to take children they are dimly lit and
have far to much envises on drink and cocktails and for children serve a very limited upgrade of what is advailible in fast food chains.

The Hill Billy

Geek Nose wrote:

Did anyone notice how most kids you see in restaurants behave unruly, yet everyone in this topic who has a kid, just coincidentally happens to be the well-behaved ones? Amazing...

You don't see them because they are sitting down, eating up & behaving themselves. You only notice the ones that are making a nuisance of themselves. Amazing?

rediguana

Answer is simple:

Have some child-free restaurants.
Have some family-friendly restaurants.

That way both markets get served. Regardless of the type, unless the 'restaurant' is McDonalds, there is no way kids should be allowed by parents to run amok disturbing diners and impeding staff. If they can't be bahaved, let them eat at home.

And no, I don't have kids

run_Forrest_run

very good point Hill Billy...kids will be kids but if they are disrupting others in a restaurant then it should be the parents that are asked to leave with their children. I have seen it myself, parents bring their kids out as a form of break for themselves...the kids act up and the parents just ignore them (just like they probably do at home) but it is the other people around them have their night ruined. Tis up to the parents.

McGinty

Kharn

You are right that people don't take enough responsibility for their children and are afraid to speak up for themselves, but I hope you were joking when you stated

I have screamed in the face of people and threatened severe physical damage

, or to tie both parent and child with cord to keep them in line, you have (by the sounds of your thread) successfully dealth with deliquents through peaceful methods, so why resort to childish and aggressive methods, I am glad that other people can't smack children as that was abused in the past, we have to resort, like you have, to other methods. You and others are right that some parents have abscondened total responsibility towards their kids, it is up to government, school, etc to sort them out, which annoys me as well.

Overheal

Kharn wrote:

This is and should always have been a Parenting board post tbh, Etho_, you're a mod, you should know that!

Society seems to think it is no longer appropriate to point out other people's errors/mistakes/misdeeds/inability to control children. We've all experienced the cinema/restaurant/wherever situation where some sh1t kids are wrecking heads whilst Mammy and Daddy who have become oblivious to the whole thing cause they've been dealing with it (or more accurately, not dealing with it) for months/years. You should have said something yourself instead of waiting till you could bitch about it on the internet.

I will always try to find the parents and make a show of them. As a service industry manager I have spoken softly in the ears of people and as a customer I have screamed in the face of people and threatened severe physical damage and I usually get the desired result by picking my words carefully .

As a manager, you explain that (for example) after 9pm it is illegal for children to be in a licenced premesis and this can include not just a hotel bar, but their reception/lobby too depending on their licence. I tell them they have 5 minutes to bring the children to bed or I call the guards. I have gotten a lot of agro from some parents about me telling them their children can not run around my hotel unsupervised. I supsequently told them to go to their room and pack their bags which makes for a sudden turn around. One of them went over my head to the Duty Manager who then showed them the complaints from other guests who were demanding they not be charged for X, Y and Z because of the unruly children that ruined their whatever. He then said that he was going to pass on all these charges to the people at fault, "who happen to be you and your children. So do you want to settle 5 people's bills or just your own?" They left there and then complaining about service and all that as someone mentioned above much to the delight of everyone else. All the other complaints were happy as word had spread through the hotel very quickly that we had actually thrown the bastards out. People like seeing BIG results when they have a complaint. The outcome? 1 possible complaint and 5 or 6 very satisfied customers who admired the way we handled it.

I have had the guards call a woman's house who's children refused to stop talking during a film. I asked nicely to be quiet and stepped up the aggression each subsequent occasion. by the 5th time I stood up, told her *she* was leaving and got the manager. There was a big scene and they eventually left. Later, as I was leaving the cinema having successfully enjoyed the rest of the film, I saw them pulling off in their car and one of the afore mentioned darlings decided to give me the finger. I rang the Gardaí straight away, called out the licence plate and they made a visit which I hope frightened the sh1te outta this wonderful mother - certainly the garda I spoke with was on my side cause she was stunned by the story. This may seem a little harsh to most people, but the law won't allow me to do the right thing which would have been to whip the child and mother with a length of nylon rope until they pissed themselves (when I am president of the world, this will be the MINIMUM punishment). I'm forced to play by this society's rules which really sucks, but the police must follow up any genuine complaint received and really are not happy about having to call to anyone's house telling them their kids were reported for their behaviour whilst they were driving.

The problem lies in parental application of discipline and that's it. Banning kids from restaurants won't fix that, it's a FAR bigger problem than that. Kids seem to have lost respect for parents (gross generalisation here - don't snap!) and people in general seem to have lost respect for everyone else and so won't teach the brats what they're doing wrong. Gone are the days when if someone's kid was acting the maggot you'd give them a clip around the ear and send them on their way where their parents would give them the same and demand the child went back to apologise. This is a very big shame.

The businesses have to be brave and step in, this is very true. Too many don't/are afraid to. Ned's point about people getting onto the radio etc naming and shaming is unfortunately also highly important. We now live in a society where people think they are gods because they're paying for something. Some of you should see the way my colleagues and I get treated when someone else has done wrong. It's clearly our fault that your child won't behave. :rolleyes: I once had some parents say to me "well, you closed the pool to children at 7 - what else are they supposed to do?" I answered "madame, it's 11pm, they're supposed to be in their beds" which was met by a full blown nuclear assault by both mother and father and auntie - all of whom were swaying on their seats and slurring their words. 2 other guests chimed in on my behalf and before I knew it there was almost a brawl in the lounge! It was insanity. Eventually the crash of one of my lamps breaking ("I wonder who might have done that?" were my exact words when I heard it) and the subsequent tears ended the arguement. The additional €200 added to their bill for the new lamp caused them to cut short their trip - how unfortunate.

The point:
Speak up and take no sh1t from anyone in any circumstance! Never be afraid to get mad.

Sir: You just won the internet

Kernel32 wrote:

They performed the same experiment again but this time with a father and two kids. They entered, sat down, he got out a newspaper and buried his head in that while the kids ran wild. Not one person made a complaint to him or to the staff.

Well, you said it was out of pity: whereas my experience working in a Hotel/pub/club super-thingy tells me that it might have also been a fear of him blowing a fuse? Sure, ladies can do that too: but it doesn't always take 3 bouncers in-unison to settle them back down

Celticfire

Zynks wrote:

My opinion is that Ireland must be the most child-unfriendly country in Europe.

I'll second that.

Overheal

I thought the French eat their children?