Shelbourne crisis

redzerdrog

event wrote:

why do you think that?

there is a lot of money being put into the club by local investors, if that were to go, or if they failed to get europe two years running, things could change dramatically

Because i know the main contributer personally and he is in for the long haul he adores the club and dragged it off its knees to be were it is today. Drogs have been there and done that when it comes to going broke and these lads saved the club then so i am sure they are not planning pulling out on the club.

The Rooster

Is there land in Ollie's name? Or is it in Shels name?
If he did put land in his own name rather than in the name of Shelbourne FC, then redspider might have a point - but I dont know.

Disagree about Derry being in an advantageous position regarding tax obligaions. In my experience the UK Inland Revenue are harder to deal with than the Irish Revenue. As bohsman said, the only reason Revenue are going after Shels so hard is that they are consistenly breaking agreements and falling behind payment schedules.

_blank_

The ground is OWNED by DCC.

Shels own a lease on it for a specified period of time. This was given to them by the Donnelly Family. It was previously held by the football club known as Drums, the original tennants of Tolka Park.

They are selling the LEASE, not the ground.

The problem is that the option to buy the lease was given to Ossie Kilkenny's consortium three years ago, and they started making payments for this back then on the understanding that the monies would be used to find a new ground. The money was instead used to fund the CL Group Stages Dream.

This pissed off the OK Consortium, so they pulled the plug on the funding.

They couldn't see the club moving out of Tolka, so many deals had fallen through, so they moved to get their hands on the land, and relations turned sour, with OK allegedly telling Ollie Byrne that he'd "effing out Shels out of business". IMO this is a disgraceful thing for the Chairman of the Irish Sports Council to say, but that is another debate.

As I already stated, Ollie is not, was not, and never will be in the Shelbourne business to line his own pockets. His family has considerable history with the club, he gave up the chance for a 'normal' life with a wife and kids for Shelbourne. And it looks like it's going to kill him.

godtabh

Doesnt the FAI have to nominate a club to the CL and while 99/100 its who ever wins the league if you look at what happened in Italy the governing body can change who it enters

Zebra3

seansouth wrote:

Shels own a lease on it for a specified period of time. This was given to them by the Donnelly Family. It was previously held by the football club known as Drums, the original tennants of Tolka Park.

It was actually previously held by Home Farm, originally held by Drums.

But what you've said about Ollie is spot on, he's not in it for personnal gain. The accusation that the Donnellys were hoodwinked is outrageous and potentially libellous. I would seriously urge the op remove it or that a mod edit it unless further information comes into the public domain. The Donnellys are a highly succesful business family and the chances of them being hoodwinked by anyone are minimal.

soma

While relegation sucks, my own personal feeling is still one of relief that the club still exists. Time moves fast, Shels will be back battling for the top honours within a few years hopefully.

_blank_

Zebra3 wrote:

It was actually previously held by Home Farm, originally held by Drums.

Doh - of course you are right.

redspider

seansouth wrote:

You have absolutely no clue what you are on about here.
Ollie Byrne is not in this to make money. Any money coming out of the deal to him will go back to the club. Ollie IS Shels. It is his life. It could yet be the literal death of him. What you are suggesting here is offensive to me, the club I love, and Ollie Byrne. Take it back please.

Perhaps that came across a little harsh. I think Byrne will probably make millions out of this property deal, but what he as owner of Shelbourne FC wants to do with it is another story, whether piling it back into Shelbourne for footballing reasons or not. It would seem that in the past he has had bona fide intentions for Shelbourne, but not always a lot of business sense, so he could very well spend it all on Shelbourne. However, he doesnt have to, and what with his poor health and others taking over, who knows what they will do with the money.

The key point in relation to this is that I understand (I hear what you are saying Sectron F!) that it has been alleged that he/Shelbourne FC bought out the Donnelly part ownership of the lease, for a snip at what Kilkenny is paying for it. That smells of wheeling-dealing to me, and whilst the football club might be the direct beneficiaries of it in time, I wouldnt put it up there with Mother Teresa ethical standards.

redspider

_blank_

The Donnellys aren't idiots.

They knew what the deal entailed. They agreed to it, again, for the good of the club.

bohsman

Never thought Id see the day Id stand up for Ollie Byrne but no way is he in it for the money, the man only has Shels, no real friends etc if Shels go I dont think hed survive very long.

LizardKing

Gary Brown , Shels interim chairman , just on RTE news there. He sounded very sketchy and did not really answer any questions straight - I doubt they'll try and appeal the decision, he kept mentioning not getting further sanctions in march ?? Lets just hope they survive ... also I apologise for my previous more positive *rumours* that failed to come true ... I won't pass on *rumours* from that contact again but I think a few people on the board believed it would be sorted and finish more positively than this

Up Shels

_blank_

LizardKing wrote:

also I apologise for my previous more positive *rumours* that failed to come true ... I won't pass on *rumours* from that contact again but I think a few people on the board believed it would be sorted and finish more positively than this

Mate, don't worry about that. I think most of everyone involved at that level with Shels was of the same mind.

LizardKing wrote:

Up Shels

Aye.

KdjaCL

Sadly my "nah nah hahahah your ****ed" kind of posts came amongst genuine posts of informative "rumours". For one i dont apologise for my posts regarding shelbourne as Einzie pointed out i and other pats fans are fairly glad to see Shels get "football justice".

Relegation.... in regards to the known misdemeanours committed fair enough, i posted about AFC Shelbourne being born out of this as i believe thats where it should have/will end/ed with Shels being thrown out of the Eircom League altogether. But thats based on "rumours" as there is a lot more to Shels saga than has been printed and mentioned in the media. redspider touches on it but without i suppose a media source printing it its "rumours" and some people who dont know these "rumours" would get upset at these being posted or mentioned.

In regards to "rumours" that are posted here and on foot.ie the Eircom league is in Ireland which is a small country. Atm i work with 1 ex EL player and 2 current players, ndo used to live beside me and in the past i have worked with geoghan/r collins and others. My recently deceased uncle was a part of the FAI and my younger brother plays for an EL side (not pats the wanker). We all know people who are either playing or part of the EL in general. So to expect to see media recognition of "rumours" is crazy talk. I knew a few days ago about the relegation thing but didnt post about it due to Shels fans being fairly upset over mine and pretty much anyones "rumours" (other than lizardkings) or even opinions of shels.

So to sum up "rumours" are something based on poop or fact, time tells which is true BUT believe them at your own peril. Boards.ie cant get involved with "rumours" due to people going Libel mental. But i dont want to force people who live beside X player not to post so i would advise using the [rumour] tags to cover everyones bums.


kdjac

LostinBlanch

KdjaCl

Not sure if putting [rumour] or [alleged] in certain posts like some of the above actually absolves people from blame if libel is actually deemed to have been committed. I'm harking back to other message boards about the time of the Premier League players "roasting" scandal.

The percieved wisdom then was that even saying something is alleged to happen or is a rumour wouldn't leave someone in the clear from possible legal action. So some people (or mods) may want to go back and edit posts just to be sure to be sure.

KdjaCL

LostinBlanch wrote:

KdjaCl

Not sure if putting [rumour] or [alleged] in certain posts like some of the above actually absolves people from blame if libel is actually deemed to have been committed. I'm harking back to other message boards about the time of the Premier League players "roasting" scandal.

The percieved wisdom then was that even saying something is alleged to happen or is a rumour wouldn't leave someone in the clear from possible legal action. So some people (or mods) may want to go back and edit posts just to be sure to be sure.

We do(a lot) upon orders but generally anyone can say anything as long as they word it correctly. In a perfect world you would be responsible for your own posts but at the moment the website you post them on is. Atm only once has the footballing authorities come down on a website and that was a "northern ireland club playing in the EL" *for something a fan posted in his blog.

* see its possible

kdjac

event

redzerdrog wrote:

Because i know the main contributer personally and he is in for the long haul he adores the club and dragged it off its knees to be were it is today. Drogs have been there and done that when it comes to going broke and these lads saved the club then so i am sure they are not planning pulling out on the club.

yeah

but things can change, thats all we are saying. To say it will never happen to Drogheda, thats a stretch though. It could happen easily enough

redzerdrog

event wrote:

yeah

but things can change, thats all we are saying. To say it will never happen to Drogheda, thats a stretch though. It could happen easily enough

yeh it could also happen chelsea and i dont see there fans worrying about it. i could also go get knocked down by a bus there is no point trying to predict what will happen espesially in the world of football. I just know at present and the forseeable future the club is secure and in great hands.

event

redzerdrog wrote:

yeh it could also happen chelsea and i dont see there fans worrying about it. i could also go get knocked down by a bus there is no point trying to predict what will happen espesially in the world of football. I just know at present and the forseeable future the club is secure and in great hands.

i know that, that was my point:rolleyes:

just to say it will never happen, you should be aware that it could very easily

LizardKing

Back on topic , there was an article in yesterdays herald saying Alan Moore was being offered the managers contract... anyone any info. on the validity of this ?

_blank_

Today's Irish Times

League of Ireland:Reigning League of Ireland champions Shelbourne are believed to be set to announce today their intention not to appeal their demotion to First Division licence status.

With no manager and no team, the club are eager to finally put the decision of the FAI's First Instant Committee (FIC) of last Monday, that condemned them to relegation, behind them and prepare for the new season which begins in earnest a fortnight today. It also emerged yesterday that Alan Moore, the club's former Republic of Ireland international midfielder, is the chief candidate for their vacant managerial post. A full statement, or a hastily arranged press conference, regarding both pressing issues is expected from Tolka Park today following a further meeting of the club's board last night.

Right, no appeal, nice one.

Pighead

Don't worry lads, keep the chins up. On a brighter note Oriel Park in May is like heaven and earth. See ya then boys!

_blank_

That's a very hard thing to do at the minute Pighead, mate.

For the latest twist, Gary Browne has stepped down from the club, and there is talk of there actually being an appeal.

Who the fúck is in charge now? What the fúck is happening to my club?

I'm very angry at the moment.

wardie

Dermot Keely confirmed as manager according to aertel.

tbh

Friday, 23 February 2007 21:42

http://www.rte.ie/sport/2007/0223/shelbourne.html?rss

Shelbourne FC have announced the appointment of Dermot Keely as manager for the new season.

The eircom League champions were demoted to the First Division on Monday.

In a statement, the club said: 'The club is very grateful to Dermot for coming on board at this time. He brings to the job a proven track record, a wealth of experience and most importantly at this time, a determination to rebuild for the future.

'Dermot will spend the weekend putting together a squad of players, a task that will be very difficult given the looming transfer deadline of next Wednesday.

'Between now and then, it is not proposed to issue updates on players being signed. The club would like to thank its supporters and to join with them in looking forward to the new season.'

The club also said that Gary Brown has stepped down from the position of interim chairman of the Management Committee.

Jonny Arson

Finally a bit of good news but still it very much appears Ossie Kilkenny is taking his cash offer off the table for whatever reason so the pain and anguish continues

BOHSBOHS

i think moore is heading to dalymount? or has received an offer from bohs anyway

Bateman

BOHSBOHS wrote:

i think moore is heading to dalymount? or has received an offer from bohs anyway

There was a report in the Daily Mail that we had offered Moore a playing contract but it was totally false.

bohsman

Apparently Derry and Bohs amongst others are offering theplayers nobody else will take on loan to Shels, McGuinnesgate and O'Brien from Bohs by the looks of it.

MrJoeSoap

You go away for a couple of weeks and your club gets relegated in pre-season. Thats football I suppose...

KdjaCL

Crawford and Chambers resign for shels.

5 players now.


kdjac

redspider

The Shelbourne crisis is not fully over. According to this:

Press Release
27th February 2007
Shelbourne Football Club has today lodged an appeal on the conditions imposed by the FAI attached to the issuing of its First Division Licence.

The club, with great regret, accepts that Shelbourne Football Club will be playing in the First Division nest season, but is of the view that the conditions attached to the granting of the licence could not be complied with, within the timeframe stipulated, because of the particular and unique situation prevailing at the club at present.

The club will present its case for appeal to the licensing committee in the foreseeable future.

Whilst the conditions have not been made officially public as far as I am aware, if Shelbourne cant meet them, then will they lose their Div 1 license as well and be kicked out??

I also noticed that Shelbourne have two pre-season friendlies set-up but these will be played at Clonshaugh and not at Tolka. Not exactly a way to bring in much fans and much needed money. Perhaps trying to save the grass at Tolka but I doubt that's the reason. A bit strange.

Its not over until the fat lady sings, and in this case, completes her repotoire and leaves the stage!

Redspider

John_C

In my opinion, this is all about getting to the start of the season. Once they've played their first game, they won't be thrown out so they're dragging the appeals process out that long.

KdjaCL

They want the deadline for players to be paid and the revenue to be extended to march 31st........They also intend to have a 9k a week budget for 1st divison (rovers had 6k last year with biggest attd). Kilkenny is funding the 9k but not the debt...


Some people just never learn.


kdjac

_blank_

We have a full squad, and the 9k IS NOT being spent in full, nowhere near it.

http://www.shelbournefc.ie/news.php?id=583

Most of the players have signed permanent deals I'd presume, as a club can only hvae four loanees for the season.

woodyg

On a side note are Shels the 1st team to win the leauge and get relegated in the same season?

redzerdrog

Tony O'Dowd

The experienced netminder makes a surprise return to league football with the former Derry City, Shamrock Rovers and Drogheda United man answering Keely's SOS call to end his association with non-league Malahide United.

James Hussey

Will provide goalkeeping competition for O'Dowd after being surplus to requirements at both UCD (where he spent most of last season) and Bray after both clubs made more experienced captures.

Alan Murphy

The ex-Drogheda man and last year's Longford captain is a significant addition as the full-back will offer experience to the defensive ranks. Work commitments had affected his Premier Division prospects.

Niall O'Reilly

The young full-back has spent the last few seasons at Bohemians, but was unlikely to receive much first team exposure at Dalymount Park this year thus leading to his release.

Conor Rafferty

The Dundalk born defender has just joined Bohemians after returning home from a stint in England with Wolves but has been allowed to spend the season at Tolka Park on loan to continue his education.

Aiden Collins

Collins arrives from Bohemians after enjoying a stint at Dalymount Park which was ravaged by injuries that ensured he could never nail down a regular starting slot.

Brian Gartland

Centre-half Gartland was Bray's under-21 player of the year in 2006 but comes to Shelbourne without having made a senior competitive appearance for Wanderers.

Aaron McEneff

The left-sided defender could never get a consistent run in the starting eleven at UCD due to persistent injuries including a broken metatarsal last year.

Kieran Harte

Harte is a midfield player who comes to Tolka Park from UCD. Is involved with the college's Collingwood Cup side this week but will link up with Shels afterwards.

Ciaran Ryan

A long-standing member of the Bray Wanderers squad, Ryan was released by Seagulls manager Eddie Gormley at the end of last season.

Mark O'Brien

Keely was last night hoping to wrap up the signature of the midfielder who has failed to sparkle at Bohemians following a contentious move from Shamrock Rovers. Spent part of last season back on loan with the Hoops.

Jim Crawford

Crawford is the only member of league-winning squad to remain at Tolka Park after agreeing to sign for Keely again. Was a peripheral squad figure last season but will be key player in Division One.

James Chambers

The midfielder is a promising talent with the Irish under-21 squad that is in Madeira this week. Been with Shels since his schoolboy days but spent all of last year on loan with Waterford.

Glen Lacey

The winger has been out of the Eircom League before being snapped up by Keely. Had spells with Shamrock Rovers and Drogheda United.

John Brophy

Brophy is another to arrive from UCD who he is also representing in this week's Collingwood Cup. Enjoyed first team exposure at Belfield but spent most of his time in the under 21 squad where he played in both midfield and attack.

Darren McKenna

Experienced striker at this level who scored goals earlier in his career with Monaghan United but was most recently with Kildare County where he was ravaged by injuries last season.

Mark Leech

Scored winning goal in last year's Setanta Cup for Drogheda but fell down pecking order there and spent the end of 2006 on loan with Bohs.

Davitt Walsh

Recently signed from Finn Harps by Bohemians but, similar to Rafferty, has been made available to Shels for the coming year in order to gain valuable experience.

Wayne Byrne

The striker arrives from Bray where he failed to establish himself in a regular starting berth since making his senior debut in October 2005.

Kyle Moran

The ex-Man United man arrives on loan from Derry having just linked up with the Brandywell club during pre-season. The 19-year-old striker is a native of Dundalk.

Jonny Arson

If Keely can gel that squad together pretty quickly and add new faces in July when the loanees depart I'd be quietly confident Shels will there or there abouts near the top by the end of the season. However I would take finishing bottom and the club to get itself properly sorted off the pitch anyday.

woodyg wrote:

On a side note are Shels the 1st team to win the leauge and get relegated in the same season?

In Ireland I'd imagine so but internationally look at Juventus, Serie A champions 2005/06 and then relegated but for different reasons of course! Technically relegated isnt the correct term since we recieved an invitation into a new league by securing a 1st division licence but of course that doesn't soften the blow not being in the top flight.

KdjaCL

Jonny Arson wrote:

In Ireland I'd imagine so but internationally look at Juventus, Serie A champions 2005/06 and then relegated but for different reasons of course! Technically relegated isnt the correct term since we recieved an invitation into a new league by securing a 1st division licence but of course that doesn't soften the blow not being in the top flight.

Keely will do a job there it may not be pretty but it will be effective, hope athlone win just for *that* stadium. But think Shels be there abouts.

3rd team in a row to be relegated as champions Juve Ferenvaros and now Shels.


kdjac

redzerdrog

bur juve were stripped of the title so they are technically champions

_blank_

Well we had a friendly yesterday against a 'Waterford United Selection' and we won 1-0. Davitt Walsh the scorer (he's on loan from Bohs) in the first half.

Eleven O'Clock on a sunday morning was a very bad time for this, and the weather was terrible, still about 3-400 turned out for it.

It was a very encouraging display, although I doubt we'll be promoted this year, the team still needs to gel, and that will take a good few weeks to happen.

One thing I will say is that the lads looked well up for it. What gave them good heart was the standing ovation they got at the end of the match, one player commenting that it made him 'feel ten feet tall'.

It was very nice to cheer on a Shelbourne team eventually after the horrible winter we have endured.

redspider

Good to see that Shelbourne have a squad assembled together and have at least played one friendly. Keely is ideal probably for putting a battling unit together. Remarkable that 250 turned up, as it wasnt at Tolka and wasnt a 'proper' friendly I understood.

> Is involved with the college's Collingwood Cup side this week but will link up with Shels afterwards

I played in that competition so its hard to believe that League of Ireland football is at such a low level.

In terms of issues, there was still an open question on the conditions being met I had understood. I read on Shelsweb (last week) that one of the 'unwritten' conditions perhaps was that Accolade/Shelbourne owed the FAI 250k for international tickets that were never paid. Not sure if that info was correct or not but woruldnt surprise me.

I also have anecdotal evidence from a Shels ever-present fan that ticket prices were inflated over recent years and were above face value to bring in even more money. Yet another shenanigan although one that can be 'gotten away' with.

Has the Fat Lady left the stage yet?

Redspider

John_C

redspider wrote:

I played in that competition so its hard to believe that League of Ireland football is at such a low level.

Yes but UCD won quite comfortably with players nowhere near their eL squad. There's a reason the players are being let out on loan to Shels (and seperate reasons for Shels needing them).

MrJoeSoap

redspider wrote:

I played in that competition so its hard to believe that League of Ireland football is at such a low level.

Thats a bit of a leap to make. I now plenty of lads from college who played in the Collingwood, but aren't anywhere near 'LOI' standard. There were always a couple of players who would fit in well in a First Division squad though, as is more than likely the case here.

redspider wrote:

I also have anecdotal evidence from a Shels ever-present fan that ticket prices were inflated over recent years and were above face value to bring in even more money. Yet another shenanigan although one that can be 'gotten away' with.

Can you expand on this? What is "face value" exactly? And 100 euro for a student season ticket is unbelievable value.

_blank_

redspider wrote:

Remarkable that 250 turned up, as it wasnt at Tolka and wasnt a 'proper' friendly I understood.

The match was at Tolka Park, having been re-scheduled from the Saturday at an unplayable AUL.

redspider wrote:

I also have anecdotal evidence from a Shels ever-present fan that ticket prices were inflated over recent years and were above face value to bring in even more money. Yet another shenanigan although one that can be 'gotten away' with.

There are no tickets issued at Tolka Park, so I don't know where your 'Shels Regular' is getting his 'evidence'.

You are accusing Shelbourne of some kind of embezzlement, which I think you should withdraw. If you are going to make such wild claims then I at least think you should back them up in some way other than 'anecdotal evidence'. I'm a Shels regular who is telling you that this wasn't going on. But you know what, because your story is more 'inflamatory' people will jump on that one.

You are a disgrace tbh.

redspider

seansouth wrote:

You are accusing Shelbourne of some kind of embezzlement, which I think you should withdraw. If you are going to make such wild claims then I at least think you should back them up in some way other than 'anecdotal evidence'. I'm a Shels regular who is telling you that this wasn't going on. But you know what, because your story is more 'inflamatory' people will jump on that one. You are a disgrace tbh.

I dont want people to jump on it. Its just something that a Shels person said, a senior person, who knows Ollie Byrne in fact and is/was a mamber of the SSDG, season ticket holder for a decade or decades even, and all that.

Basically they were just saying that many of the FAI international tickets that went through Shels had price NN on them but Ollie used to ask for more than the face value, ie: NN + handling. That's all. Who knows, maybe it was a handful of tickets for each top match, a mere 0.1%, or maybe it was 1000's. I'm not s.hit-stirring, but you must admit that with all the things that were going on this certainly could be within the realms of possibility and is in fact small potatoes compared to some of the other hood-winkery that has gone on.

Any news on the appeal to the FAI in relation to the 'conditions'?

Redspider

KdjaCL

The ticket rumour has not been mentioned by the FAI or shels in public, the only conditions they want extended are the deadline to pay the payers and revenue. If true it makes the FAI look like gimps altho they doing a fine job of that on there own.



kdjac

_blank_

Can I ask if I posted a rumour that ManYoo or some other club were involved in ticket touting what the outcome would be?

The moderation of this forum by this particular moderator has become shambolic.

The Rooster

Adding a fee for international or similar tickets is widespread among rugby clubs, some GAA clubs have recently started doing it (for intercounty games), and I guess there are some soccer clubs that do it too.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Its a means of fundraising that club members are happy to help with it. With GAA clubs its usual that the levy is being directed at a particular cause - e.g. the €2 levy per ticket goes directly towards the new training pitch.

Rugby clubs are certainly the "worst" for it and charge by far the highest levy, and they also do a lot of "throw in a meal and double the ticket price". Nothing illegal or untoward about it - although some GAA folk think the rent should be based on actual price charged by clubs rather what the ticket says!

Back on topic I've no idea what Shels were doing. But if they were selling tickets to their club members at above face value, then the buyer would know exactly what was going on and would have agreed to it (everyone knows the face value of Intl tickets).

GuanYin

redspider wrote:

I also have anecdotal evidence from a Shels ever-present fan that ticket prices were inflated over recent years and were above face value to bring in even more money. Yet another shenanigan although one that can be 'gotten away' with.

Anecdotal evidence is an oxymoron. Basically someone told you a story or you heard a rumour - this is not evidence.

Unless you can provide actual substantial evidence be VERY careful what sort of accusations you are making.

I would appreciate you clarify this comment or withdraw it.

_blank_

Thank you psi.