John Deasy TD in the news...

mad man

Van wrote:

What exactly is Mary Roche saying that hasn't been said by others. We have seen the influence of Independents in this Dail - Nil

Well to say Independents have no influence depends how the numbers add up.You have to remember Jackie Healy Ray and Mildred Fox had FF by the short and Curlys before 2002.Mildered Fox was therefore able to close on a lot of local issues regarding health.

Likewise if I'm not mistaken the reason the country is divided in two i.e BMW and SE region was for the Purpose of Milking the EU for a few more bob.Funding was going to be cut drastically because the Fiscal and Economic situation was turning around.People like Jackie Healy Rae foeced the government to negotiate a compeomise.

So imagine id Waterford Had to FF's and Mary Roche is there an independent and there was a hung Dáil.There would be huge pressure on FF to deliver full radiotherapy and a University.There is a lot of Ifs there but it isn't impossible.

A lot of people are expecting the PD's to Meltdown.I don't think it is going to happen but you never know.This would make FF very dependent on Independents.That is why I thing two Cullen another FF and Roche could potentially be a dream situation.One thing is certain is I do not believe Deasy or O'Shea will be in any position to lobby successfully for Waterford.

Bards

mad man wrote:

Well to say Independents have no influence depends how the numbers add up.You have to remember Jackie Healy Ray and Mildred Fox had FF by the short and Curlys before 2002.Mildered Fox was therefore able to close on a lot of local issues regarding health.

Likewise if I'm not mistaken the reason the country is divided in two i.e BMW and SE region was for the Purpose of Milking the EU for a few more bob.Funding was going to be cut drastically because the Fiscal and Economic situation was turning around.People like Jackie Healy Rae foeced the government to negotiate a compeomise.

So imagine id Waterford Had to FF's and Mary Roche is there an independent and there was a hung Dáil.There would be huge pressure on FF to deliver full radiotherapy and a University.There is a lot of Ifs there but it isn't impossible.

A lot of people are expecting the PD's to Meltdown.I don't think it is going to happen but you never know.This would make FF very dependent on Independents.That is why I thing two Cullen another FF and Roche could potentially be a dream situation.One thing is certain is I do not believe Deasy or O'Shea will be in any position to lobby successfully for Waterford.

If Roche is elected then the apple cart will be upset and we will be a marginal constituency again..... It's been two FF, one FG & One Labour for as long as I can remember

Van

I am one of those who believe that Cullen did not deliver to the same extent that Ministers from other counties did. University, Public Radiotherapy, Motorway to Dublin, major job losses, underperforming economically - need I go on. There is a tendency in Waterford not to be critical of our own Minister. Cullen is rated as being one of the worst Ministers in government by all political commentators. Just because he secures funding for a project or two in Waterford does not change that. Also the days of Independents delivering on major projects is long over. If people think that an Independent from Waterford could deliver issues such as a University or Radiotherapy they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

merlante

Van wrote:

I am one of those who believe that Cullen did not deliver to the same extent that Ministers from other counties did. University, Public Radiotherapy, Motorway to Dublin, major job losses, underperforming economically - need I go on. There is a tendency in Waterford not to be critical of our own Minister. Cullen is rated as being one of the worst Ministers in government by all political commentators. Just because he secures funding for a project or two in Waterford does not change that. Also the days of Independents delivering on major projects is long over. If people think that an Independent from Waterford could deliver issues such as a University or Radiotherapy they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

Van, Cullen's position in FF and in the government is not as strong as some of the other ministers. That should be obvious enough to most people. You have to gauge him on what was possible and what was delivered. He has delivered the motorway, in that they are building it now, as well as the bypass and a centrally funded outer ring road. He was also got funding to save the airport and recently announced that the runway was going to upgraded. There have been a hundred other little things. But prior to Cullen getting in there we had nothing at all. We are coming from a very low base, but Waterford is getting back on the map again.

Public Radiotherapy is something that Michael Martin was 100% against, but I believe Harney has promised it, and I can't see an alternative coalition taking it off the table (but you never know). The university is not something that Cullen ever could deliver alone. Only with the support of the cabinet and with a pile of expert reports could a university ever be delivered. He has at least started the process. As regards jobs, the situation is dire, but it's the companies that won't come here until we get a university. Although he could have done better on this front.

Martin Cullen is not the worst minister in there, forget about the so-called commentators who have their own agendas. There are guys in there so lazy and stupid you don't even know their names. But they are FF men of long standing and service and thus invulnerable to attack so long as they keep their mouths shut.

Bards

Michael Martin is the worst minister... All he ever did when in Health was issue reports.. over 200 to be exact.. cost the tax payer over €1,000 million euro on Eldery care. wasted €120M on PPARS

and what do we hear repeat time after time after time by so called esteemed political commentators.. the e-Voting debalce (€50M)which was started by Noel Dempsey.. but Cullen gets landed with the blame.

we never hear about how bad Michael Martin is..now do we....

merlante

Bards wrote:

Michael Martin is the worst minister... All he ever did when in Health was issue reports.. over 200 to be exact.. cost the tax payer over €1,000 million euro on Eldery care. wasted €120M on PPARS

and what do we hear repeat time after time after time by so called esteemed political commentators.. the e-Voting debalce (€50M)which was started by Noel Dempsey.. but Cullen gets landed with the blame.

we never hear about how bad Michael Martin is..now do we....

Couldn't have put it better myself.

mad man

Van wrote:

I am one of those who believe that Cullen did not deliver to the same extent that Ministers from other counties did..

Unfortunately the electorate in Waterford doesn't get to choose from other Ministers in other counties.We can only pick from within our own constituency.If you can convince me who has a chance of being in a position to deliver for Waterford other than Cullen then I will vote for them

Van wrote:

University, Public Radiotherapy, Motorway to Dublin, major job losses, underperforming economically - need I go on. .

Most of the Major contracts for the Motorway have been signed.The section from Waterford to Knocktopher is due to be signed.If Cullen wasn't there the Motorway would not be even on the agenda.I would say the best we could have hoped for is a 2+1 between Waterford and Knoctopher.There has been huge pressure within the Government,the opposition,the senate, from the Media and academics in the ESRI to scrap the M9 motorway project.

It should also be remembered that under Cullens tenure as Minister for the Environment allocations for non National roads in Waterford City was almost 5 times per capita than that of Dublin City.More again than for Cork and the Funding for Galway was almost insignificant in comparison.That is before you even mention funding for County Waterford.That was the situation for three years.

Van wrote:

There is a tendency in Waterford not to be critical of our own Minister. Cullen is rated as being one of the worst Ministers in government by all political commentators. Just because he secures funding for a project or two in Waterford does not change that..

Why would Waterford be critical of their own minister.It would be akin to biting the hand that feeds you.

You should check out politics.ie.There is a thread there about who is the most hated Member of the Oreachteas.Cullen is mentioned but there is many more cabinet members and TD's mentioned more often.Dick Roche in particular.The fact is Cullen has not been a subject of Contreversy now for two years,There has been a lot of Controversies since then including a Humdinger with Bertie Ahern.Cullen is performing no worse than any other member of the cabinet despite what the media says.Micheal Martin is responsible for much bigger mistakes than Cullen with hardly any Flak.The truth about E voting is that Noel Dempsey had already set this in train in the local elections in Meath.There was huge problems there and he still pushed ahead with it.Cullen was cleared of any wrong doing during the Monica Leech affair.If Cullen was that Bad Bertie ahern could have sacked him two years ago.This is a can only mean that Waterford has become an important constituency or else Cullen is doing a good job.Either way the basic reality of the situation in Waterford is that there is no alternative to Cullen.

Van wrote:

Also the days of Independents delivering on major projects is long over. If people think that an Independent from Waterford could deliver issues such as a University or Radiotherapy they are living in cloud cuckoo land.

You obviously missed the phenomenen of Jackie Healy Ray.This man forced the Government to go back to Brussels and persuade the EU to continue funding for the West.Himself and Mildred Fox practically went to the Government of the day with a shopping list of Demands.There is an extremely high chance of the situation repeating itself in five months time.I'll say again Van if you know of an alternative to the current situation then please tell me because I cannot see it.

Trotter

What do the potential candidates who arent sitting TD's right now need to do over the next months to ensure they unseat a TD though? Is it pure publicity or are the people of Waterford well capable of researching who is worth their vote?

I fear its option 1.. where the person with the biggest poster budget wins.

Bards

Trotter wrote:

What do the potential candidates who arent sitting TD's right now need to do over the next months to ensure they unseat a TD though? Is it pure publicity or are the people of Waterford well capable of researching who is worth their vote?

I fear its option 1.. where the person with the biggest poster budget wins.

It is also a case of the electorate asking "What have the sitting TD's done for the constituency?" if they haven't done much except claim expenses and salary then I say vote them out, and let some new blood in and see what they can do.. If politicians know that unless they actually do something they stand a good chance of being turfed out in five years it might focus the minds...

we need less of the "ah sure.. he's a ballybricken man. " or "My dad always voted for his father, so I better do likewise"

whatever happens as long as we elect Cullen & upset the status quo of two ff, 1 FG & 1 FG then I will deem the election a success for Waterford

mad man

Bards wrote:

It is also a case of the electorate asking "What have the sitting TD's done for the constituency?" if they haven't done much except claim expenses and salary then I say vote them out, and let some new blood in and see what they can do.. If politicians know that unless they actually do something they stand a good chance of being turfed out in five years it might focus the minds...

we need less of the "ah sure.. he's a ballybricken man. " or "My dad always voted for his father, so I better do likewise"

whatever happens as long as we elect Cullen & upset the status quo of two ff, 1 FG & 1 FG then I will deem the election a success for Waterford

The problem is how do you upset the status quo without damaging our chances of electing a politician who can deliver for Waterford.If FF are returned in 2007 Cullen would find it hard to justify a demand for a cabinet post if he has not returned a second FF with him.Cullen pulled more votes than any other FF TD in the country in 2002 including Bertie Ahern.That more than anything else justified his right to a cabinet position.

Bards

It could be read a number of ways by the FF parlimentary party

If we do return only Cullen as the sole FF, Cullen could turn around and say.." they only elected me becasue I hold a cabinet seat, just look at the drubbing Waterford did to FF at the local elections"

If they dropped Cullen from Cabinet then I suspect his chances of getting re-elected in 2012 would be slim due to the fact he would not deliver.

It would also mean Waterford would be open season and all seats would be in play so whoever gets in might be try to win favour by conceeding things which we deserve and need, but otherwise wouldn't get.

On the other hand we could still upset the status quo by returning two FF inc Cullen and dropping one FG or one lab or heaven forbids both FG & Lab.

mad man

Bards wrote:

It could be read a number of ways by the FF parlimentary party

If we do return only Cullen as the sole FF, Cullen could turn around and say.." they only elected me becasue I hold a cabinet seat, just look at the drubbing Waterford did to FF at the local elections"

If they dropped Cullen from Cabinet then I suspect his chances of getting re-elected in 2012 would be slim due to the fact he would not deliver.

It would also mean Waterford would be open season and all seats would be in play so whoever gets in might be try to win favour by conceeding things which we deserve and need, but otherwise wouldn't get.

On the other hand we could still upset the status quo by returning two FF inc Cullen and dropping one FG or one lab or heaven forbids both FG & Lab.

I still think the best way to show that Waterford means business is to elect 2 FF's and Mary Roche as an Independent on a Uni and Radiotherapy ticket.The other options I think are risky and could end up with Waterford being in the political doldrums again for years.

The media seems to be turning against FG and I think this could be their Death Knell.Deasy may have split the FG vote in the West of the county and O'Shea has never really been in position to Deliver.I think if Waterford votes the right way the might be in a position of power greater than 2002 .

merlante

I see your point madman about Cullen being charged with returning two FF seats, and that his success in this could be a crucial factor in his retaining a ministry.

However, that's a 'keep 'em sweet' tactic, and I think 'keep 'em sweet' is a bit too lazy from us. We've simply returned 2 FFers automatically for too long for it to mean much. I think, like the PDs, we are either radical or redundant, we can't simply keep returning 2 FF TDs, even if one of them is a complete waste of space, as both Wilkinson or Kenneally have been. How could Bertie, or any leader, have any respect (respect as in fear) for a constituency that is so mindlessly loyal?

The more radical approach, if we as a people were capable of thinking collectively (which we're not), would be to give Cullen an even larger vote, and to ditch the two other fools. That would set us out as a constituency with a bit of cop on and a bit of spunk. FF are then faced with the possibility of suffering further if Cullen is not offered a ministry. In other words, instead of a keep 'em sweet' strategy, we adopt a more threatening, 'keep him in or we'll kick you out' strategy.

Now, plainly speaking, it looks almost certain that we will elect 2 FFers. Last time out we nearly elected 3 of them! So bearing that it mind, we should at least hope that the Kennealy/Wilkinson vote is severely reduced, and that we change at least one of our TDs. With Deasy's seat looking safe, that means that we have to put O'Shea to the sword. He has fought like a trojan for Waterford over the years, but when it counted, he could not gain any real influence in the last FG/Lab coalition, and is even less likely to do so in a possible FG/Lab coalition this time around. He failed to stop all of the other RTCs being upgraded to university status, which seriously set back Waterford's progression toward university status.

We have to be tough on this one. I wonder will we be?

merlante

Incidentally, here's a very illustrative webcast from WLR with Wilkinson:
Cretinous weasel words on radiotherapy

Van

I think we are kidding ourselves regarding Martin Cullen being a Minister after the next election. Taking for granted that Fianna Fail will be returned (and that may not be the case) he is regarded nationally as being one of the worst Ministers in government. Any analysis on the performance of government ministers show him as a poor performer. The only people that rate him as a good Minister are some people in Waterford.

Bards

Van wrote:

I think we are kidding ourselves regarding Martin Cullen being a Minister after the next election. Taking for granted that Fianna Fail will be returned (and that may not be the case) he is regarded nationally as being one of the worst Ministers in government. Any analysis on the performance of government ministers show him as a poor performer. The only people that rate him as a good Minister are some people in Waterford.

Did you happen to see the FF ard Fheis a few months back.. Bertie Ahern durhing his speech praised Martin Cullen in national TV and said what a great job he was doing, and not to listen to those mdeia comentators.

Now that's what I call an endorsement from your Boss

mad man

Van wrote:

I think we are kidding ourselves regarding Martin Cullen being a Minister after the next election. Taking for granted that Fianna Fail will be returned (and that may not be the case) he is regarded nationally as being one of the worst Ministers in government. Any analysis on the performance of government ministers show him as a poor performer. The only people that rate him as a good Minister are some people in Waterford.

The fact is Van it aint over till the fat lady sings.The reality is there has been no analysis of performance of any minister that is worthwhile.Again I suggest you check out politics.ie to see who is regarded as the worst performing minister in Government.Dick Roche,Michael McDowell have pariah status.Hannafin,O'Dea,Dermott Ahern get mentioned more than Cullen as being bad mimisters. Micheal Martin has been accused of responsibility for the Nursing Home charges scandal and PPARS which will easily cost a billion of taxpayers money when held up to the light.On the other hand since Cullen became Minister for Transport projects have been coming in ahead of schedule and under budget.We never here about this because Good News is No News especially for Indo journalism.Cullen has also takes a lot of Flak for decisions he makes that are actually Bertie decisions.He tests the water and if they prove unpopular he takes the Heat.If they don't then Bertie takes the credit.A typical example was the suggestion to put a series of tolls on the M50.This was a Bertie idea but Cullen pitched it.

I think the only reason we are kidding ourselves is to pretend the flak that Cullen receives is something other than politics.Most of the heat these days about Cullen is from the opposition parties going on about stuff that happened two or three years ago and as I said one of those issues was inherited.This is the job of the opposition.The real question is why does Cullen attract more flak in the media than he deserves.The reason is this,most of us are political animals whether or not we like to admit to it or not including journalists and our local oppositin politician.There is plenty of people out there who think Waterford doesn't deserve cabinet representation.There was no shortage of people in Cork in 2002 who believed they had some sort of divine right to two cabinet ministers.Cullens appointment knocked this on the head.

The power of media opinion in Ireland may be heavily overated.There are signs that they are massively out of touch with the public.The print media consists mostly of Oirish tabloids who have imported the worst type of sleazy journalism from the UK.The Indo is no better.What does that leave us with,The CORK examiner and the Irish Times.Cullen may not have delivered everthing on Waterfords Shopping list.However if you look at what has been deliverd and ask yourself would the alternative have equaled this I think any unpartisan view will say no.

If there is an alternative Government its Guaranteed that Brendam Howlin and Phil Hogan,Twomey will be the voices of the South East.Their rethoric over the years has shown to be anti-Waterford.Whats worse still Deasy has been singing off this Hymn sheet lately.All these things are academic However.I will vote for Genghis Khan if he delivers the Goodies for the City and County.So far You are basically saying Cullen is worthless and I am contradicting you.The question is even if Cullen has no portfolio in the next FF led government would that situation be worse for Waterford than a FG led "alternative" government.The answer is think is no.So bearing that in mind Van what alternative does Waterford have than voting for the incumbents.

Bards

Well Said Mad Man... couldn't have put it better myself:D

merlante

Bards wrote:

Well Said Mad Man... couldn't have put it better myself:D

Indeed, Cullen is the easiest person in the country to slag or abuse. It comes from a long standing habit engendered by the media. So any of the lads that have nothing good to say about him (and plenty bad) could you please advise us who to vote for that would do better. Seriously. Make some suggestions.

I too would vote for Ghengis Khan if he delivered the goods. I'd love if Waterford was the sort of place where we could follow our hearts and elect greens, 'progressive' socialists, 'feed the world and spread the love' type candidates, but we can't, because the second we take our eye off the ball, as history has taught us, we'll be back to zero delivery on everything!

We wouldn't be able to fund cats eyes on the Airport Rd., let alone a runway extension.

Trotter

merlante wrote:

the second we take our eye off the ball, as history has taught us, we'll be back to zero delivery on everything!

Apart from the balance of power situation, isnt the above a perfectly strong reason to elect an independent? Basically they have the freedom to say what they like, so if our party affiliated TD's are not performing in the Dáil, we have a 4th TD who can act as a watchdog and a pressuriser. If the 3 party TDs are not performing well for us in Dublin, a good independent will be all over the local papers telling us exactly that.

Keep Cullen in.. realistically he's our only shot at having a minister.

John Deasy to stay in too because his amazing outpourings actually get us in the news, and no publicity is bad publicity.

Mary Roche to grab Bertie by the throat should he need the independents to form a govt (Highly likely in my opinion), and to scream and shout in the Dáil for the people of Waterford.

and.. Brian O'Shea because he's very good at the little things that people need to phone a TD for.


Whatya think... dream team or wha..

Bards

What if FF come to rely on SF.... Cullinane might be a better bet than O'Shea or Deasy..even though i dislike their economic views.

merlante

The problem with what you've said Trotter is that the FF vote in Waterford is huge. They nearly elected 3 the last time out. Plus the county want one of their own. That means we'll almost certainly have 2 FFers, even if the vote drops. Don't get me wrong, Mary Roche, or an empty tube of toothpaste for that matter, would better than Rosencrants or Guildenstern (Wilkinson or Kennealy).

So it's probably O'Shea to go if it's anyone... It will be interesting to see where the socialist vote will go, as bards said, Cullinane could easily get in, or maybe even Halligan. All it would take would be for some FFers and some O'Shea voters to go a little more extreme...

The SFers are all nuts though...

Trotter

Bards wrote:

What if FF come to rely on SF.... Cullinane might be a better bet than O'Shea or Deasy..even though i dislike their economic views.

For me.. no way. I cannot even comprehend the idea of SF in government. Theres still to many senior SFers on the radio, mixing their words to avoid perfectly reasonable questions. Its normal to hear any politician doing that, but when I hear people refusing to condemn the murder of innocent people, my skin crawls.

SF need to earn my trust in opposition first. Up to now, they still disgust me. Having said that, I do hope to see the day where I would be abhorred to see them in government on economic policy grounds, and not because of the sneaky way they do business now.

Anyway.. thats a bit off topic by me.

1 FF, 1 FG, 1 Lab, and 1 Ind for me please.

Van

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm reading successive posts on this and other forums and newspapers about how Waterford is underperforming economically. I'm reading about our poor infrastructure and access to the city from posters on this and other sites. I'm reading and quite rightly so about the failure to deliver to a university to this region and the consequences of that. And yet the same people who are writing about this things on this and other sites and indeed in local papers are asking us to return the same people and same government that have been in power for the last 10 years as if they had no responsibility at all for the situation we find ourselves in. Now if that isn't foolish I don't know what is:rolleyes:

merlante

Van wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm reading successive posts on this and other forums and newspapers about how Waterford is underperforming economically. I'm reading about our poor infrastructure and access to the city from posters on this and other sites. I'm reading and quite rightly so about the failure to deliver to a university to this region and the consequences of that. And yet the same people who are writing about this things on this and other sites and indeed in local papers are asking us to return the same people and same government that have been in power for the last 10 years as if they had no responsibility at all for the situation we find ourselves in. Now if that isn't foolish I don't know what is:rolleyes:

It's very simple Van, this is the first government since the formation of the state that has done right by Waterford. The deficits in infrastructure that you and we speak of are as a result of 80 years of neglect. Now we are trying to ensure that our prosperity is sustained by electing our best combination of
TDs, of which Cullen is one, because he has brought Waterford back to the table.

Trotter

Van wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm reading successive posts on this and other forums and newspapers about how Waterford is underperforming economically. I'm reading about our poor infrastructure and access to the city from posters on this and other sites. I'm reading and quite rightly so about the failure to deliver to a university to this region and the consequences of that. And yet the same people who are writing about this things on this and other sites and indeed in local papers are asking us to return the same people and same government that have been in power for the last 10 years as if they had no responsibility at all for the situation we find ourselves in. Now if that isn't foolish I don't know what is:rolleyes:

I'm an old farmer. I need to move a big old can of milk. I have a donkey.. and realistically he's a lazy donkey.. and not much use at carrying milk.

I also have a sheep. Thats it.. I have nothing else to carry this massive big can of milk.

Do I give it to the sheep?

Ya with me

FG wont carry the can.. FF could.. but wont.

The Ind could be the big stick with which to threaten the donkey (I said threaten.. not beat.. before Im reported to the ISPCA).

Bards

Trotter wrote:

I'm an old farmer. I need to move a big old can of milk. I have a donkey.. and realistically he's a lazy donkey.. and not much use at carrying milk.

I also have a sheep. Thats it.. I have nothing else to carry this massive big can of milk.

Do I give it to the sheep?

Ya with me

FG wont carry the can.. FF could.. but wont.

The Ind could be the big stick with which to threaten the donkey (I said threaten.. not beat.. before Im reported to the ISPCA).

....and we all know who has the C4:D

merlante

Consider the lily...

Trotter

Sorry.. coming up with odd examples is what I do all day for a living.. its hard to switch it off

Having read it again I still think its fantastic.


Still dont get the C4 thing though!!

merlante

Trotter wrote:

Sorry.. coming up with odd examples is what I do all day for a living.. its hard to switch it off

Having read it again I still think its fantastic.


Still dont get the C4 thing though!!

I wasn't complaining.