Boards - Slowness

copacetic

galwaytt wrote:

aha - I see.

admin+beaker@boards.ie Page generated in 25.86475 seconds with 13 queries

pah! just beat that with one hand behind my back:

admin+statler@boards.ie Page generated in 41.56483 seconds with 14 queries

mike65

admin+beaker@boards.ie Page generated in 0.28029 seconds with 11 queries

Mike.

rogue-entity

The last two nights boards has been inaccessable entirely. First I was getting errors on the main page something to the effect of: Datastore Cache corrupted, please use X from tools.php to fix it.

And last night, I was just getting blank white pages, from pie, blah and www.

Dont know what causes thoughs, just thought I would let you all know

*continues waiting patiently for the day boards get new servers*

Chakar

I would recommend people get broadband.It certainly helps.

Firewalkwithme

Chakar wrote:

I would recommend people get broadband.It certainly helps.

Helps with what exactly? Bitorrent maybe but certainly not boards.ie since I have only ever used this site on broadband and the frustration waiting for pages to load only seems to get worse with time. It's a shame since boards its easily one of my favorite websites despite the slowness.

I don't profess to know exactly where all the resources available to the admins go but I do think that it would be a good idea to get boards.ie in good working order before launching or promoting more international variants and side projects like adverts.ie.

oscarBravo

Cartoon_Head wrote:

I don't profess to know exactly where all the resources available to the admins go but I do think that it would be a good idea to get boards.ie in good working order before launching or promoting more international variants and side projects like adverts.ie.

I'm sure they'll be hiring you as a consultant any day now. Wait by the phone, y'hear.

copacetic

Chakar wrote:

I would recommend people get broadband.It certainly helps.

just to confirm that i have broadband too, i'd imagine everyone who is posting
does. it's slow enough on broadband, it would never work on dialup.

(been ok for me last few days though)

Firewalkwithme

oscarBravo wrote:

I'm sure they'll be hiring you as a consultant any day now. Wait by the phone, y'hear.

Should I be offered the position I'll be sure to create a vacancy for you. I think something along the lines of 'Chief of sarcastic remarks for failing to provide any useful or constructive suggestion or opinion' would be a suitable title given your last post.

Did you even read what I wrote - I did say that I'm not fully aware of what's going on? :rolleyes:

Hagar

Chakar wrote:

I would recommend people get broadband.It certainly helps.

Nice one. Hook, line and sinker.

dublinario

I just had a thread closed in 'After Hours' in which I was trying to discuss boards' chronic performance problems. The mod redirected me here, and I acknowledge that I'm arriving at the party late. My own feelings on boards.ie's terrible performance is that it is a damn shame, considering how many people (particularly Irish) who use it as their primary discussion forum. It's also kind of unjustifiable, and an anachronism to latter-day high-speed internet comms.

I work in web development, and I can't think of a single site (business or pleasure) that even comes into the same ballpark of slowness as boards.ie. The only comparable situation I can recall was when the excellent football365.co.uk introduced a dodgy batch of javascript to their site, which crippled Firefox browsers. Annoyingly, football365 failed to rectify the problem for months, and I'd say they lost plenty of patrons, which brings me to my point:

As slow as football365 were to sort out their performance problem, boards.ie are on a different scale altogether. How long has this been going on? I've been using boards.ie for years, and I don't really remember a time when it was performant. It is amazing to me that no other Irish forum site has cropped up - with performance in keeping with...well, the rest of the internet (and I'm not trying to be sarcy saying 'the rest of the internet' - to reiterate, I don't know any site even half as slow as boards.ie) - and taken boards.ie's market share.

I'm not trying to flame anybody here, or get on the mods backs, because I don't know who is responsible for the site's infrastructure, but there are two facts as I see them:

a) - this site, whilst incurring a high throughput of usage, is doing nothing special. There aren't mad NASA-scaled algorithms doing complex calculations in the background, bouncing results back'n'forth against satellites etc etc. It's just a forum
b) - if the performance problems had persisted for even 3 months, I would have said it was madness. The fact that they have persisted for a period running into years, is mismanagement, and it is a wonder to me that people (including myself) have stayed faithful. I guess when it comes to forums though, it's all about the size of the subscription base. For boards.ie to be usurped, you'd need everybody to switch over to a new forum at the same time. Nobody wants to be user #00000001, talking to themselves.

Nevyn

Firstly if you were to read the history of boards.ie on the biki you would know
who owns the site. http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Category:History

Secondly Have you any idea the size of the boards.ie database ?

Thirdly if you have any input towards the solutions I am sure you posts would be welcome in the developement section rather then stating what is the obivous to most posters.

Fourthly if people decide to go elsewhere then they will go elsewhere but those of us you are a members of the various communtines which use the varying forums here will stay.

scojones

Thaedydal wrote:

Secondly Have you any idea the size of the boards.ie database ?

It's not the database that is the problem, it's vbulletin. The boards.ie database has been optimised (it's indexed, etc) and it's not the backend that is the problem. The admins are throwing hardware at this problem, and this will help somewhat but the problem will keep arising the more popular boards becomes. It's not as if the admins haven't been talking to the guys on vbulletin asking for help with this issue. The way you are talking dublinario, is as if they don't give a toss and don't know what to do. The admins are investing alot of money on new hardware to see if this helps.

We can all criticise something, but I don't see you offering a way out of this issue. That's not constructive criticism, sure it's not?

dublinario

Thaedydal wrote:

Firstly if you were to read the history of boards.ie on the biki you would know
who owns the site.

Did I wonder who owned the site? No. I said that I didn't know who was responsible for its infrastructure; nor am I inclined to care, frankly. I was only disclaiming that I wasn't making a personal attack on anybody, because I wouldn't know who to attack even if I wanted to (which I don't).

Thaedydal wrote:

Secondly Have you any idea the size of the boards.ie database ?

Mate, I understand databases, and the problems associated with their growth. But if I built a website that was taking - in some cases - minutes to return a page, and upon being pulled up by my boss about it said "have you any idea how big the database is?", I imagine I'd be on a one-way trip to P45-ville. Infrastructures are either capable, or incapable. Boards.ie is currently incapable on a scale that I genuinely haven't witnessed in years, if ever. Bemoaning the size of the database is a rather glib way of implying 'nothing better is possible'. Why don't we all just pack up and go home then? There is nothing technically infeasible about making a forum perform adequately. I commend the efforts of everybody involved in boards.ie, and I love the site, but forums aren't at the vanguard of software development complexity: there's nothing unusual about it's requirements.

Thaedydal wrote:

Thirdly if you have any input towards the solutions I am sure you posts would be welcome in the developement section rather then stating what is the obivous to most posters.

Well, a mod pointed me here. But I'll endeavour to dip into the development section too.

Thaedydal wrote:

Fourthly if people decide to go elsewhere then they will go elsewhere but those of us you are a members of the various communtines which use the varying forums here will stay.

...as is your prerogative. I want to stay too.

copacetic

Thaedydal wrote:

Firstly if you were to read the history of boards.ie on the biki you would know
who owns the site. http://wiki.boards.ie/wiki/Category:History

Secondly Have you any idea the size of the boards.ie database ?

Thirdly if you have any input towards the solutions I am sure you posts would be welcome in the developement section rather then stating what is the obivous to most posters.

Fourthly if people decide to go elsewhere then they will go elsewhere but those of us you are a members of the various communtines which use the varying forums here will stay.

so basically people can put up with it or eff off? very helpful.
why shouldn't he talk about boards slowness in the thread about slowness?

site has been fine for me the last few days, but is very erratic. There was a post about having 'patience' a while back, it would be nice to have a sticky if there are things happening etc. It is incredibly frustrating for users and as above mods tend to take offense straight away and stick their heads in the sand. Or at least give that impression.

dublinario

scojones wrote:

We can all criticise something, but I don't see you offering a way out of this issue. That's not constructive criticism, sure it's not?

Well, even if it isn't constructive criticism scojones, isn't this the "feedback" section of the site? And within that section, isn't this the thread about the site's slowness? I've already been booted out of "After Hours" for posting about this issue there, and was pointed here. It's an endemic problem on internet forums, that there's never a shortage of people who are ready to tell you that you shouldn't have posted.

scojones wrote:

The way you are talking dublinario, is as if they don't give a toss...

I never said or implied that the people involved (who I don't know) didn't give a toss.

scojones wrote:

....and don't know what to do...

Clearly they don't. The performance problems have persisted over years. If they knew what to do, the problems wouldn't have persisted over months. But I don't doubt for a second that they're trying.

scojones

You'd swear the admins here were responsible for vbulletin's problems. You don't seem to be offering any alternatives, just pointing out the blatantly obvious. What do you suggest they do? Use something else? Sure, what exactly? And how exactly will the change over occur? Will your alternative fit right in with the existing database or will changes have to occur?

dublinario

scojones wrote:

You'd swear the admins here were responsible for vbulletin's problems.

They (or whoever) are responsible for the site's performance. It doesn't matter whether the performance problems link back to vbulletin or someone having drunkenly urinated onto the server. The site isn't vbulletin. vbulletin is something that the site uses.

scojones wrote:

You don't seem to be offering any alternatives, just pointing out the blatantly obvious. What do you suggest they do? Use something else? Sure, what exactly?

Scojones, you seem to be taking this all a little personally. This thread isn't called "do you have any suggestions for solving boards performance problems". It's just a thread about the site's slowness. If I had a bad meal in a restaurant, I can tell the restaurateur without then being obliged to go into his kitchen and try to correct the failings.

If you are offended or piqued by people who would dare to offer "feedback" on boards' "slowness", perhaps you should avoid the "slowness" thread in the "feedback" forum. This is the first time I've complained about the site's slowness in my couple of years of contributing/reading. If anything, I've left it too long. If everybody "stated the obvious" (as you put it) more often in life, there would be more impetus to get things done.

scojones wrote:

And how exactly will the change over occur? Will your alternative fit right in with the existing database or will changes have to occur?

My alternative? I never offered one scojones. I'll tell you what I do know (as a software developer), without having studied vbulletin. Making this site perform, is doable. There is nothing technically infeasible or unusual in what is trying to be achieved. If that means getting rid of vbulletin, migrating a database schema etc., that's a pain, but at the moment, the site doesn't work properly, so whatever it takes. But I have not the time nor inclination to get involved in helping out. I just wanted to leave some feedback on the feedback forum. I'll tell you what would be mental scojones. What would be truly nutty is if people weren't leaving feedback like this about the dire performance. And if they weren't, there would be less impetus to sort it out. So relax a little mate. Nobody's slagging your ma.

oscarBravo

dublinario, it's not exactly surprising that people are getting a wee bit peeved in response to your post. If you were just saying "boards is slow", the response would be along the lines of "duh, sherlock". Unfortunately, you decided to add a little colour to it:

dublinario wrote:

It's just a forum

But you see, it's not just a forum. It's several hundred forums, with millions of posts and over 80,000 users. To say it's "just a forum" immediately gives the impression that you don't understand the scale of what's going on here.

You can argue in response that you do understand the scale, but you created the wrong impression up front. Then you went on to say:

dublinario wrote:

The fact that [the problems] have persisted for a period running into years, is mismanagement...

You can dress that up, but you can't take it out. That's insulting to the people who run this site. It doesn't matter whether you tried to be insulting or not, you succeeded. Don't be surprised if a caustic post earns a few caustic responses.

copacetic

oh give the guy a break, he is posting valid points in feedback on a thread about the slowness of boards.

All of what he says seems to be more or less true. The usual, 'oh you don't understand the scale' replies are rubbish. There are plenty of much bigger forums
around that work fine.

80,000 users? I love boards but at least half those users are never on here if not a lot more. Why the need to exaggerate? Whats the point of that?

Fair enough if we are told that the Guys are working on it as seems always to be implied, of course then nothing really changes. If the problem is cost etc, just let people know but don't make out that it is an impossible problem etc etc it's just sad.

I'll sit back now and wait to be told that I don't understand anything and I should thank the lord that boards works at all..

scojones

dublinario wrote:

They (or whoever) are responsible for the site's performance. It doesn't matter whether the performance problems link back to vbulletin or someone having drunkenly urinated onto the server. The site isn't vbulletin. vbulletin is something that the site uses.

VBulletin does everything. It generates HTML, it queries the database. VBulletin is slow. The web server is not.

dublinario wrote:

Scojones, you seem to be taking this all a little personally.

I'm not.

dublinario wrote:

This thread isn't called "do you have any suggestions for solving boards performance problems". It's just a thread about the site's slowness.

My alternative? I never offered one scojones. I'll tell you what I do know (as a software developer), without having studied vbulletin. Making this site perform, is doable. There is nothing technically infeasible or unusual in what is trying to be achieved. If that means getting rid of vbulletin, migrating a database schema etc., that's a pain, but at the moment, the site doesn't work properly, so whatever it takes. But I have not the time nor inclination to get involved in helping out. I just wanted to leave some feedback on the feedback forum. I'll tell you what would be mental scojones. What would be truly nutty is if people weren't leaving feedback like this about the dire performance. And if they weren't, there would be less impetus to sort it out. So relax a little mate. Nobody's slagging your ma.

I'm also a software developer. I don't really see the point you are trying to prove there.

Boards is slow. Everyone knows this. Merely pointing out the obvious without offering an alternative is rather... silly. That's the point I'm trying to make here. Several of us have been saying this for ages now but guess what? It's pointless because the admins are constantly working to sort the issues out. As of now they are throwing new hardware at this issue. If you look around, alot of features have been scaled back for a while. We have no search ( I don't like BT ), you can't see the users viewing a particular forum. I don't have a problem with you pointing out the slowness, but it's pointless to be discussing something you claim to understand but apparently don't.

oscarBravo

daveym wrote:

oh give the guy a break, he is posting valid points in feedback on a thread about the slowness of boards.

Yes, and he's wrapping them up in some unnecessarily offensive language - that's the point I'm making, which you seem to have missed.

daveym wrote:

All of what he says seems to be more or less true. The usual, 'oh you don't understand the scale' replies are rubbish. There are plenty of much bigger forums
around that work fine.

Hey, great. Why don't you find out what it is that they're doing right that boards.ie is doing wrong, and let us know?

daveym wrote:

80,000 users? I love boards but at least half those users are never on here if not a lot more. Why the need to exaggerate? Whats the point of that?

I'm sorry, what did I exaggerate?

daveym wrote:

Fair enough if we are told that the Guys are working on it as seems always to be implied, of course then nothing really changes.

The guys are working on it. That has been clearly stated - not implied - ad nauseam.

daveym wrote:

If the problem is cost etc, just let people know but don't make out that it is an impossible problem etc etc it's just sad.

Find me a post where an admin has said it's an impossible problem. Go on, just one. I'll be here.

daveym wrote:

I'll sit back now and wait to be told that I don't understand anything and I should thank the lord that boards works at all..

I'll sit back and wait for you to argue with what you think I meant instead of what I said.

Diamondmaker

I have waited ages to get into this thread it must be amazing!!!!

:eek: Oh sh!t its the queue to complain how damn slow and unusable this becoming

and yes I AM on broad band no probs any where else!!!

Grrrr

christophicus

In boards deffence for me it has only been the last few months that it has been really slow , and yes it is annoying but hey, thats life.

By the way, is there any idea as to a time frame before baords gets back up and running at full speed?

steve-hosting36

Perhaps is the admins provided the community with clear, unambiguous plans and timelines, things would be simpler?

Blaming vbulletin/cosmic rays/little green men for the slowness isn't 100% accurate. Vbulletin may be crap, but even crap can be made perform with the right infrastructure, there are a great many larger vbulletin powered sites out there.

Terry

dublinario wrote:

I've already been booted out of "After Hours" for posting about this issue there, and was pointed here.

You were not "booted out of After Hours".
I suggested you take your complaint here.

dublinario wrote:

This thread isn't called "do you have any suggestions for solving boards performance problems". It's just a thread about the site's slowness. If I had a bad meal in a restaurant, I can tell the restaurateur without then being obliged to go into his kitchen and try to correct the failings.

Do you regularly get free meals in restraunts?
I only ask because you are not paying for your use of this site.

I suggest you change your attitude.
With posts like that, this thread will turn very ugly very quickly.

I'm sure you are able to offer your suggestions with the need to resort to bitching and moaning.

steve-hosting36

To be fair, the admins do get paid to keep boards online (all that advertising) and it is the people who spend their time on the site who provide that ad revenue, so, in a way, he did pay

Being a little pedantic -and- facetious here, but if boards is to survive and grow as a community, it needs to learn to take criticism a little better If everyone simply knew what the plan to fix the problem was (which is eminently fixable) then people wouldn't complain so much.

christophicus

I think this thread has already turned very ugly.

copacetic

oscarBravo wrote:

Yes, and he's wrapping them up in some unnecessarily offensive language - that's the point I'm making, which you seem to have missed.

there wasn't any offensive language, the charter says don't be afraid to
criticise but when someone does, there are always people to say 'don't criticise'

oscarBravo wrote:

Hey, great. Why don't you find out what it is that they're doing right that boards.ie is doing wrong, and let us know? I'm sorry, what did I exaggerate?

boards doesn't have 80k users, it has 80k people who have registered the majority never to return and use the site

oscarBravo wrote:

The guys are working on it. That has been clearly stated - not implied - ad nauseam.

Where? All I've seen is people like you and the other lowly mods above say it. It is pretty clear you guys would say or imply anything, true or not, personally I don't believe any of you know what you are talking about.

oscarBravo wrote:

Find me a post where an admin has said it's an impossible problem. Go on, just one. I'll be here. I'll sit back and wait for you to argue with what you think I meant instead of what I said.

I didn't say an admin said that. It is mods like yourself who imply that it is because boards is too big etc that it can't work properly. I'd imagine any of the admins would appreciate the honest feedback and acknowledge if they had more time to work on it boards would have been working fine a long time ago.

The problem I have is that this is FEEDBACK, we are supposed to criticise and I'm sure the organ grinders appreciate it. The attacks on posters by the monkeys are sad..

christophicus

#Elites wrote:

"VBulletin is slow. The web server is not"

yeah it is slow, but boards.ie is very slow when compared to other VB sites..

granted its fine sometimes, other times its incredly slow, and its very anoying when you acculy want to do something on here.

agreed.

Faith

Jaysus, everyone needs to relax! This place has become unbelievably full of people sniping at each other. dublinario was just commenting on how slow boards has been in recent history. I doubt there's one person who's posted in this thread who hasn't complained somewhere or other about the slowness of boards, and/or the resulting lack of decent search. Sure, maybe he was a bit harsh in his criticism, but leave him alone.

To those of you suggesting that he should provide a solution - no, he shouldn't. This thread had about 140 posts from people complaining about the slowness until somebody decided that the most recent person to complain had to be the one to provide the solution. Nobody else provided a solution.