Irish Rail - "Weekender" Ticket

DublinDan

I regularly commute Dublin to Cork and back for the weekends. Just noted a 'Weekender' option on the Irish Rail website which would save about 9 euro on the return fare (52e instead of 61e). This apparently requires an ID card which you need to get at the station.

I've never heard of this before. Is it new? Has anyone else used it?

Anything to save money on rising transport costs......

MarkoP11

Been available for a long time, notices at stations and timetables and the fares are online

For those over 26 years valid for travel outwards on Friday, Saturday and Sunday and return on or before the next Tuesday. Special ID required at a cost is €7, need passport sized photograph to get card issued. Cards issued at all booking offices.

You can book a weekender ticket online and get a seat reservation at no cost, the weekender option will only be shown online for a valid combination of journeys

If you are under 26, bring a proof of age, passport photo and €10 and you can get a faircard, no restriction on journey times, again you can book online

rikki2

I went to renew my Weekender card last Friday 9 January and was told that Irish Rail have cancelled this service and were only allowing passengers with a current Weekender card to avail of this service. They wont renew or issue any new cards after they expire. So my fare went from a recently increased €33.50 to €48 for a return trip to Galway.
I can get a return with Aer Arrann for €50. Its mad when Minister Gormley wants us to use more Public transport and reduce our carbon footprints. Most other Green initiatives are to subsidise public transport.

Ham'nd'egger

rikki2 wrote: »

I went to renew my Weekender card last Friday 9 January and was told that Irish Rail have cancelled this service and were only allowing passengers with a current Weekender card to avail of this service. They wont renew or issue any new cards after they expire. So my fare went from a recently increased €33.50 to €48 for a return trip to Galway.
I can get a return with Aer Arrann for €50. Its mad when Minister Gormley wants us to use more Public transport and reduce our carbon footprints. Most other Green initiatives are to subsidise public transport.

They have been done away with; bad luck for you man. If your travel times or dates are flexible, some of the web booked tickets are far cheaper which may be the reason why; to phase same out.

bk

Hamndegger wrote: »

They have been done away with; bad luck for you man. If your travel times or dates are flexible, some of the web booked tickets are far cheaper which may be the reason why; to phase same out.

Our just take a car, which is becoming increasingly cheaper and faster then rail travel.

Great job guys.

rikki2

I checked out the price by internet booking and there was a reduction of 50c. Morra ya.
As for taking the car, yes I agree it is cheaper in terms of petrol but I doubt you could make Galway from Heuston in 2Hrs 20mins on a friday eve at 5pm. Plus you dont have to worry about being over the limit on the journey back on Sunday. Theres also 400kms put up on the car in terms of wear and tear and doing this trip on a regular basis will devalue the car and increase the annual Service costs.

bk

rikki2 wrote: »

As for taking the car, yes I agree it is cheaper in terms of petrol but I doubt you could make Galway from Heuston in 2Hrs 20mins on a friday eve at 5pm.

Of course circumstances are different for everyone. But don't forget to add the time to get to and from the station.

As an example for me Cork To Dublin by train 2Hrs 45mins, but I need to leave at least 1hr 15 mins early in order to make the train and then another 15 mins from train to home. Total 4 hrs 15/30 mins door to door, plus add the cost of Taxi to and from the station.

With all the road improvements it takes about 3 hrs by car door to door. Sure it would take longer on a Friday, but it is fine coming back, I usually avoid rush hour traffic anyway. And it is only going to get faster, probably 2 hrs 30 mins when the Cork to Dublin and M50 are finished

rikki2 wrote: »

Theres also 400kms put up on the car in terms of wear and tear and doing this trip on a regular basis will devalue the car and increase the annual Service costs.

Certainly, however there are other benefits, such as sharing with others and splitting the cost of fuel and tolls, therefore making it even cheaper. Being able to use the car at your destination. Being able to carry lots of stuff in the car.

MOH

Hamndegger wrote: »

They have been done away with; bad luck for you man. If your travel times or dates are flexible, some of the web booked tickets are far cheaper which may be the reason why; to phase same out.

The reason why is the same reason it always is: to fleece customers and get more money out of them.

Web fares don't offer an alternative: They're not applicable at times when most people who used a weekender would have been travelling; and they're not available on all routes.

Of course, they're so incompetent they can't even manage to do this properly - there's at least two places on the Irish Rail website where it still tells you about Weekender fares and how to get a Weekender card.

Ham'nd'egger

MOH wrote: »

The reason why is the same reason it always is: to fleece customers and get more money out of them.

Web fares don't offer an alternative: They're not applicable at times when most people who used a weekender would have been travelling; and they're not available on all routes.

Of course, they're so incompetent they can't even manage to do this properly - there's at least two places on the Irish Rail website where it still tells you about Weekender fares and how to get a Weekender card.

In which case, get onto Irish Rail and let them know about it. The place I checked said they are NOT available any more. OP asked a question, I tried to help him out:D

http://www.irishrail.ie/your_ticket/ticket_types.asp

MOH

Hamndegger wrote: »

In which case, get onto Irish Rail and let them know about it. The place I checked said they are NOT available any more. OP asked a question, I tried to help him out:D

http://www.irishrail.ie/your_ticket/ticket_types.asp

Sorry, wasn't attacking you personally (also, the OP was 2 years ago! ).

Just annoyed, as a) I use it a lot and it's going to cost me a bomb when my current card runs out, I'll probably have to drive instead; and b) I mailed a large group of people earlier this week who are planning a weekend away, advising them to get weekender cards, *after* checking the IR site to get the details from a page they never bothered to update.

(And as for letting them know: they've haven't bothered to respond to seven of my eight e-mails over the last year, so I don't really see the point.)

Dabatter

This is really a joke coming on the back of the 'Smarter travel' €4.5 billion plan. I mean the withdrawal of this weekender card makes the prospect of driving to Galway more economically attractive on a Friday evening, which is exactly what the government does not want according to the new master plan. Your options are get a return bus to Galway for about €18, drive the car up and back for about €35 or 40 tank of petrol or without the weekender card it will be €48 for the train. I would be a bit peeved to be getting the bus every week but 30 quid saving is not to be sniffed at. Irish Rail are trying to give this spin that the prices on the web are more attractive now. This is a load of crap, if you want the special offers you need to get the 7.10 am train on a Friday morning(eh, which means take a day off work for heavens sake!) and return at 8.20am on a Sunday. Why are they so different to the European and UK attitudes whereby they actuallly encourage people to travel on the train at weekends with some great offers. The worst thing about all of this is their lack of respect for the regular travellers to whom they have not issued one press release on why they are doing this. It is sheer ignorance. I have written to them about this and will let you know if I get a reply. Can people also write to Senator Dominic Hannigan as he raised this issue in the Senate in the last couple of weeks.

Dabatter

and mentioned here too
http://www.railusers.ie/news/news.php?year=2009&no=1.html

rikki2

This is a reply I got from Irish rail when I asked them to reinstate their weekender

Dear Mr. Kennedy,
Thank you for your email regarding the Weekender Discount scheme.
The Weekender Discount scheme was introduced several years ago as a means of offering discounts to customers. It was a paper based process requiring a high level of administration.
Sales of this ticket type have declined significantly over the last number of years which coincided with the introduction of web based bookings. Our online promotions offer substantial discounts and the additional flexibility of not confining customers to travel on specific days as is the case with the Weekender ticket.
In the context of its commercial remit, Iarnród Éireann reviews its product portfolio on an ongoing basis. In view of the need to maximise revenue and affect administrative efficiencies, it is no longer feasible to offer heavily discounted fares at times of peak weekend demand particularly on Fridays and Sunday evenings. Other service providers including Airlines, Hotels, etc, operate a similar strategy offering more substantial discounts during their off peak.
We would recommend that, for our best discount offers at all times, please consult our website www.irishrail.ie

Regards,

JayeL

Wow. Just when they get good trains, just when they get them into the stations on time and just when the random breakdowns appear to be a thing of the past, IE decide to take the safety off, take aim and shoot themselves straight in the foot.

Just....wow. So it'll now be 144 for two return tickets to Killarney, a trip my wife and I take every 4-6 weeks.

Do they think that there's no alternative? Because there is; 5 hours in the car from Dublin gets to Killarney at around the same time as the 6.30 train. Plus we have no screaming kids, no overpriced food, no waiting to get to and from stations. Just point to point. And now it'll be around 80 cheaper to drive.

IE obviously find all us passengers are getting in the way and are trying to price us off their lovely new trains.

It's time to take the car

Victor

JayeL wrote: »

Just....wow. So it'll now be 144 for two return tickets to Killarney, a trip my wife and I take every 4-6 weeks.

Alternatively you can pay €40 each off-peak.

JayeL

Victor wrote: »

Alternatively you can pay €40 each off-peak.

Taking time off work to suit IE? No thanks.

serfboard

Iarnrod Eireann wrote:

In view of the need to maximise revenue and affect administrative efficiencies, it is no longer feasible to offer heavily discounted fares at times of peak weekend demand particularly on Fridays and Sunday evenings.

Keep going like this lads and there won't be any peak weekend demand :mad:

Talk about trying to force people into using their cars ... but wait! There's a carbon tax a-coming ... so you'll be screwed either way

Dabatter

Hey Rikki2, got the exact same message back from Irish Rail too. I decided to break down the letter I was sent back and responded again looking for some proper feedback and not some corporate drawl. I also tried to contact the Spokesperson Barry Kenny for feedback also, so hopefully may get a reply. All my responses are in red writing.


Dear xxxxx(irish rail customer service person), thank you for your reply to my query, much appreciated. In relation to response, I feel that I need to respond to some of the points you have made. I would really appreciate if you could read my response and perhaps at least acknowledge the points I am trying to convey. It would be great to get feedback again as I do feel genuinely that Irish Rail are missing the point and could alienate some customers.

Thanks for your time

In relation to the following -
A) The Weekender Discount scheme was introduced several years ago as a means of offering discounts to customers. It was a "paper based process requiring a high level of administration".
RESPONSE: Given the significant level of investment that Irish Rail have placed in their IT systems(web based), have Irish Rail investigated implementing an automated solution that would enable the user at home to renew or purchase their new 'Weekender' card. This would greatly reduce the "high level of administration". As far as I remember and I may be wrong, but when purchasing a 'Weekender card', all I do is bring a passport photo, sign a preformatted laminated card with a unique ID and give my address. The Customer service agent as far as I can see puts my photo into the laminate and writes down the expiry date. Is this really a "high level of administration"?

Sales of this ticket type have declined significantly over the last number of years which coincided with the introduction of web based bookings.
RESPONSE: If sales are declining then why are you not attempting to promote this service? I have informed a considerable amount of people who did not realise this service existed and they were extremely happy. The fact of the matter is that Irish Rail has not attempted to promote this service. Please give me an example where you have advertised the 'Weekender card' in recent times. Do you have quantitiative evidence of the falling sales? For example, could you tell me what percentage of sales was the 'Weekender Card' responsible for in 2005 compared to 2008? This product provides real value to the weekend traveller.

C) Our online promotions offer substantial discounts and the additional flexibility of not confining customers to travel on specific days as is the case with the Weekender ticket.
RESPONSE: This is completely ridiculous. The beauty of the 'Weekender Card' is its flexibility; I just cannot understand your statement. This is what the 'Weekender card' represents. I can travel ANY time on Friday, Saturday or Sunday as long as I return on ANY day up to the Tuesday on ANY scheduled train. The online promotions to which you are referring do restrict you to certain days and certain times, fact. For example, I finish work on the Friday and nearly 100% of the time board the 16:50 train to Galway and return late on the Sunday evening at 18:15 so I can basically enjoy my Sunday. This costs me €33.50 with a 'weekender card', but without the card it will cost me €48 for the exact same service. If I want to get one of your 'promotions', I need to leave Dublin at 7.10am or 9.10am on the Friday morning and return on the Sunday morning at 8.25am. Can you not see how restrictive and impractical this is for someone like me? I would actually need to take a day off work to avail of the promotion on a Friday and leave Galway first thing on Sunday morning. I really cannot agree with your point here.

Dublin to Galway on Fridays - 1 way
7.10 €15, 9.10 €15, 11.10 €25, 14.35 €25, 16.50 €25, 17.50 €25, 19.15 €25

Galway to Dublin on Sundays - 1 way
8.25 €15, 11.30 €25, 13.20 €25, 14.55 €25, 16.15 €25, 18:15 €25

16:50 Galway to Dublin - Friday
18:15 Dublin to Galway - Sunday
with Weekender card - €33.50
without Weekender card - €48

D) In view of the need to maximise revenue and affect administrative efficiencies, it is no longer feasible to offer heavily discounted fares at times of peak weekend demand particularly on Fridays and Sunday evenings.
RESPONSE: I was under the impression that the 'Weekender cards' sales were 'declining significantly'. Therefore, why are you pulling the plug on a extremely useful product that is not performing and consequently is not affecting your overall income? The truth is that Irish Rail wants people to pay full whack for the peak travel period. Have you studied what they do in the Europe, particularly France, Holland, Belgium and the UK? They offer incentives for people to travel at the weekend by issuing tickets at reduced prices, and yes, at peak periods. I lived in London for 4 years and used the rail infrastructure regularly and was really impressed with their reduced fares at weekends.

E) Other service providers including Airlines, Hotels, etc, operate a similar strategy offering more substantial discounts during their off peak.
RESPONSE: Of course they offer reduced fares at off peak periods; this is no different to anything else. However, this is about transport, not accommodation. The one thing you are mssing here is this - The likes of Ryanair/Aer Lingus or Train services in England, whilst they may charge higher fares during the peak periods, they also give people an opportunity to purchase tickets in advance at vastly reduced rates(2 weeks or more). Furthermore, Ryanair/Aer Lingus do have a quota of seats available at cheaper prices during peak times to encourage people to book early. I also agree that if you do not book on time, then you should expect to pay a higher price. Irish Rail just does not simply provide this type of incentive for customers to book early, so there is no way you can compare yourselves to Airlines. Yes, off peak I agree the 1 way fares operate in the same way, but peak fares there is no incentive.

To summarise, I really do not know where you are heading with this sudden withdrawal of the 'Weekender card'. For someone like me and many more in my position, I am now in a position where I need to make one of 3 decisions -
A) Get a CityLink bus return to Galway for €19 .
Drive the car back and forth with a petrol tank of €40 guaranteed to be enough or
C) Get a return ticket on the train to Galway for €48

I hope you can see that the €30 between the train and bus is effectively a no brainer and indeed prices me out of the train. Granted the bus will take 45 minutes longer, but €30 is a big saving. I hope you consider your options before pressing ahead with your 'Weekender card' withdrawal plans. I really hope to hear back from you and would really appreciat if this does not end up been a wasted email.

Thanks for your time

Ham'nd'egger

JayeL wrote: »

Taking time off work to suit IE? No thanks.

Lots of people do it to suit airline prices.

markpb

Hamndegger wrote: »

Lots of people do it to suit airline prices.

But not many people fly to Kilarney :P

Seriously though, Irish Rail have offered reductions on off-peak travel to encourage people to travel then. That's to be applauded and some of the offers there would almost make me consider it (but given the price/speed comparison, most of the time I'm happy to take the bus). On the other than, they have simultaneously increased the price of their peak services by removing the weekender card.

I get that they want to get people to move to off-peak services but it's not going to happen. Most people work 9-F M-F and most people are going to travel on Friday and Sunday evenings - you can't break that mould.

Mixupat

Hi Dabatter. If you get a response from Irish Rail, please post. Bring back weekender!

Dabatter

Hi all, just to say I have enlisted the support of a Senator in the Oireachtas(I dont want to mention his name on the site) who is getting in touch with the Chief Exec of Irish Rail and is forwarding a parliamentary question to Noel Dempsey. This question by the way he must answer either written or verbally by law. For what its worth, we'll see what happens. Just need to keep the pressure on even its the last thing on their minds at the moment.

rikki2

Hi Dabatter,

That was a brilliant response to Irish Rail. I couldn't have worded it better. I refuse to travel by rail. It's no longer worth it. The last time I took the 16:50 train to Galway I was left standing till I got to Athlone. That was on Jan 10 when my Weekender expired. The service isn't worth €48. The buffet car is is manned by yepshe-wepshes who haven't a clue and couldn't give a bo**ix. It's not that long ago you could get sausage and chips on the train. Now its €2 for a bar of chocolate and €3 for a bottle of water. Irish Rail have their ****e. The intercom service would blow the head off you its that loud. They've lost me as a customer.
I took an Aer Arann flight to Galway for Valentines. (The other half will not be persuaded to move to Durty Dublin) It cost me €60. If I'm to pay €48 to travel then I'm going to go in comfort for €12 more. Ok they gave us new trains but at what cost? They're no quicker, you're still left waiting in Woodlawn for the outgoing train to pass. It's single track all the way from Tullamore.
And thats another thing; Why does the Galway train have to travel from Athlone to Clara, Tullamore, Portlaoise. There is a line from Athlone to Mullingar which would cut down on journey times. That was the way the Galway train went in the past. There was also talk of reopening the Broadstone Train Station at one stage which originally was the terminus of the Galway Line.
The whole company needs a good shake-up. I hope you and your Senator friend can persuade them. If you need any support PM me.

KC61

rikki2 wrote: »

Hi Dabatter,

That was a brilliant response to Irish Rail. I couldn't have worded it better. I refuse to travel by rail. It's no longer worth it. The last time I took the 16:50 train to Galway I was left standing till I got to Athlone. That was on Jan 10 when my Weekender expired. The service isn't worth €48. The buffet car is is manned by yepshe-wepshes who haven't a clue and couldn't give a bo**ix. It's not that long ago you could get sausage and chips on the train. Now its €2 for a bar of chocolate and €3 for a bottle of water. Irish Rail have their ****e. The intercom service would blow the head off you its that loud. They've lost me as a customer.
I took an Aer Arann flight to Galway for Valentines. (The other half will not be persuaded to move to Durty Dublin) It cost me €60. If I'm to pay €48 to travel then I'm going to go in comfort for €12 more. Ok they gave us new trains but at what cost? They're no quicker, you're still left waiting in Woodlawn for the outgoing train to pass. It's single track all the way from Tullamore.
And thats another thing; Why does the Galway train have to travel from Athlone to Clara, Tullamore, Portlaoise. There is a line from Athlone to Mullingar which would cut down on journey times. That was the way the Galway train went in the past. There was also talk of reopening the Broadstone Train Station at one stage which originally was the terminus of the Galway Line.
The whole company needs a good shake-up. I hope you and your Senator friend can persuade them. If you need any support PM me.

I'm not sure why you think operating via Mullingar would be quicker? That line has a max speed of 70mph and is single track to Maynooth, while services between Portarlington and Heuston are (KRP works excepted) cleared for between 90mph and 100mph, with double track on that section.

The fastest trains from Heuston to Athlone take 1 hour 23 min (which includes a 6 minute buffer for possible engineering works associated with the Kildare route 4 tracking work), while the fastest from Connolly to Mullingar takes 1 hour 04 mins. Given that Mullingar to Athlone by rail is 28 miles, roughly the same distance as Mullingar-Longford (which takes 30 mins), I can't see how it could possibly be faster?

Carawaystick

Hi Dabatter,
Noel Vote for me in a chopper in trim Dempsey will say
"That is an operational matter for Iarnróid Éireann blah de blah"

rikki2

KC61 wrote: »

I'm not sure why you think operating via Mullingar would be quicker? That line has a max speed of 70mph and is single track to Maynooth, while services between Portarlington and Heuston are (KRP works excepted) cleared for between 90mph and 100mph, with double track on that section.

The fastest trains from Heuston to Athlone take 1 hour 23 min (which includes a 6 minute buffer for possible engineering works associated with the Kildare route 4 tracking work), while the fastest from Connolly to Mullingar takes 1 hour 04 mins. Given that Mullingar to Athlone by rail is 28 miles, roughly the same distance as Mullingar-Longford (which takes 30 mins), I can't see how it could possibly be faster?

In its present form you are right. However an opportunity was missed by discarding the connection to Mullingar from Athlone. In terms of distance going from Athlone to Dublin via Mullingar is alot shorter than via Portlaoise. All you have to do is look at a map and it becomes clear how far south the Galway train travels. The decision to take this route I can only assume was a rational one to improve the catchment area at the cost to the customer. When the Galway train used to go through Mullingar the journey was cut by 20mins. Both services were offered at that time. Had that route been maintained and improved we wouldn't be having this discusssion.

KC61

rikki2 wrote: »

In its present form you are right. However an opportunity was missed by discarding the connection to Mullingar from Athlone. In terms of distance going from Athlone to Dublin via Mullingar is alot shorter than via Portlaoise. All you have to do is look at a map and it becomes clear how far south the Galway train travels. The decision to take this route I can only assume was a rational one to improve the catchment area at the cost to the customer. When the Galway train used to go through Mullingar the journey was cut by 20mins. Both services were offered at that time. Had that route been maintained and improved we wouldn't be having this discusssion.

I agree that the line via Mullingar is shorter, but it will never have the speed advantage that the current line offers. There is no prospect of the line speed between Athlone and Connolly via Mullingar going over 70mph due to the curvature of the line. The other route can offer (for significant part of the journey) up to 100mph running and as such is the faster route.

The fastest time achievable via Mullingar from Athlone to Connolly would be roughly 1 hour 35 mins. The fastest time via Portarlington to Heuston (once the KRP works are concluded) should be 1 hour 17 mins.

Indeed you would have to go back to before the time the Dublin-Cork line was relaid (in the late 1970s) to find a time that going via Mullingar would be faster. That was the main reason for the switch of route - to take advantage of the faster line speeds.

The problem with the Galway/Mayo route is that beyond Portarlington it is entirely single track. While the new trains will afford faster speeds, with every extra train added on a single track route that means that at least one train needs to add recovery time to its schedule for each train it passes going in the opposite direction (usually 6 minutes) to allow for one or other of the services being late.

The current schedules do not reflect the faster acceleration that the new trains offer, as they are still being rolled out and locomotive hauled services still operating. However, when the new timetable comes out (my guess is in August), this will reflect 100% railcar operated services on the Limerick, Kerry, Waterford, Galway and Mayo routes and should see improvements in overall journey times. However, these improvements in journey time could be reduced if extra trains are added to the schedule for the reason outlined above.

A time may well come for re-doubling a large portion of the line from Portarlington to Athlone to minimise the potential delays from late running services. There are currently 4 passing loops along that section, splitting the line into 6 10 minute single track sections for trains running at line speed.

rikki2

KC61 wrote: »

I agree that the line via Mullingar is shorter, but it will never have the speed advantage that the current line offers. There is no prospect of the line speed between Athlone and Connolly via Mullingar going over 70mph due to the curvature of the line. The other route can offer (for significant part of the journey) up to 100mph running and as such is the faster route.

The fastest time achievable via Mullingar from Athlone to Connolly would be roughly 1 hour 35 mins. The fastest time via Portarlington to Heuston (once the KRP works are concluded) should be 1 hour 17 mins.

Indeed you would have to go back to before the time the Dublin-Cork line was relaid (in the late 1970s) to find a time that going via Mullingar would be faster. That was the main reason for the switch of route - to take advantage of the faster line speeds.

The problem with the Galway/Mayo route is that beyond Portarlington it is entirely single track. While the new trains will afford faster speeds, with every extra train added on a single track route that means that at least one train needs to add recovery time to its schedule for each train it passes going in the opposite direction (usually 6 minutes) to allow for one or other of the services being late.

The current schedules do not reflect the faster acceleration that the new trains offer, as they are still being rolled out and locomotive hauled services still operating. However, when the new timetable comes out (my guess is in August), this will reflect 100% railcar operated services on the Limerick, Kerry, Waterford, Galway and Mayo routes and should see improvements in overall journey times. However, these improvements in journey time could be reduced if extra trains are added to the schedule for the reason outlined above.

Getting back to the point I was making. I think if you look at the map of the rail network including the Athlone to Mullingar route you will find that the route from Clara to Kildare looks a hell of alot more curved than athlone to Mullingar. Also I dont see how providing extra train services on single line track will shorten journey times. Surely the problem lies with the track.

KC61

rikki2 wrote: »

Getting back to the point I was making. I think if you look at the map of the rail network including the Athlone to Mullingar route you will find that the route from Clara to Kildare looks a hell of alot more curved than athlone to Mullingar. Also I dont see how providing extra train services on single line track will shorten journey times. Surely the problem lies with the track.

The point is that the track from Athlone via Portarlington will always deliver faster journey times and that is why the trains were re-routed.

The track from Dublin to Portarlington has a maximum line speed of 100mph, and most of it is operational to 90mph. The track from Portarlington to Athlone has a line speed of 75mph. When the Kildare Route Project is completed next year, the slower suburban services will be separated from the Intercity services to Hazelhatch. With clockface timetabling, this should mean that most Intercity services will get a clear run out of Heuston meaning that (and this is more relevant at peak times) they can operate at full line speed rather than being held by a slower train in front, and should also be further accelerated by at least 6 minutes with the removal of the extra running time added to cover possible engineering works.

The track from Dublin to Athlone via Mullingar on the other hand has a maximum line speed of 70mph due to the curvature of the track en route, and that is unlikely to be improved beyond 75mph. More significantly though, there is a fairly intense suburban service operating between Maynooth/Clonsilla and Connolly (which is likely to increase) which would severely impact on the running time of any Intercity services due to the lack of a clear track ahead.

Therefore, for all of the above reasons, the service is and will remain faster routing via Portarlington. Therefore simply looking at the map and route is only part of the issue. You have to look at the actual track, and the other services that share the route.

The point regarding improved running times is that the new trains deliver significant improvements in acceleration and deceleration. However, as they are still operating alongside the slower locomotive hauled trains, Irish Rail have not yet reflected these changes in the timetable on the Galway/Mayo routes. That should then happen in the next timetable change (rumoured to be around August) when the services are 100% railcar operated.

The caveat I added is that while individual station to station times will improve, the problem could be that if many additional trains are added to the schedule on the Galway/Mayo route, that does have a negative impact on overall journey times as for every time two trains have to pass on single line sections (at passing loops), additional time needs to be added to allow for one of the trains being potentially delayed.

Sean9015

rikki2 wrote: »

Getting back to the point I was making. I think if you look at the map of the rail network including the Athlone to Mullingar route you will find that the route from Clara to Kildare looks a hell of alot more curved than athlone to Mullingar. Also I dont see how providing extra train services on single line track will shorten journey times. Surely the problem lies with the track.

Try comparing Connolly - Mullingar (which basically follows the canal) with Heuston - Portarlington, which as KC61 pointed out is 90/100mph for most of the way. The Mullingar line is max 70mph or less due the constant curvature. I don't know Mullingar - Athlone, or Portarlington (not Portlaoise) - Athlone well, but the latter is reasonably straight from memory, and ought to be capable of higher speeds subject to the track bed on the bogland.

Capacity of the single line beyond Portarlington is limited, and in an ideal world a double tracking a section (say Tullamore - Clara) would allow much more flexibility and better timekeeping than can currently be the case, and speed services up as they would not need to wait for the oncoming train to pass - but we know when that is likely to happen....

KC61

Despite appearances, the two routes are in fact more or less the same distance.

Having done some checking, the mileage from the existing station in Athlone to Heuston is 81 miles. The mileage from the old station (on the west side of the Shannon) to Connolly is 79.25 miles. Allowing for the fact that the two stations in Athlone are about 1 mile apart (by rail), and Connolly is about 2 miles beyond Heuston, that means a difference of less than 5 miles.

rikki2

KC61 wrote: »

Despite appearances, the two routes are in fact more or less the same distance.

Having done some checking, the mileage from the existing station in Athlone to Heuston is 81 miles. The mileage from the old station (on the west side of the Shannon) to Connolly is 79.25 miles. Allowing for the fact that the two stations in Athlone are about 1 mile apart (by rail), and Connolly is about 2 miles beyond Heuston, that means a difference of less than 5 miles.

I find that difficult to accept. If I was driving to Dublin from Athlone, why would I turn off at moate go to Clara, then tullamore all the way down to Kildare, then upwards to portlaoise. I have a map of the full rail network including the disused track and its clear to see which is the shorter route.

To come back to your point on the Sligo Dublin Line being conjested with Commuter trains from Maynooth to Connolly. Is this not also the case from Newbridge to Heuston? Also that line from Portlaoise to Heuston not alone serves Galway but also the Cork, Limerick, Mayo and Roscommon services. The only intercity service on the Sligo Line is just that, Sligo. What is clearly required is track improvement. I accept that the Line into Heuston is fast and as this debate goes on its becoming clearer that this is where Irish rail would like to develope as the main hub of its PALEway system.

Unless there is an ulterior motive to downgrade the Sligo service even further. It's offputting enough to have to travel for 2.5 hours on a commuter train. There is only one decent train running on that track per day. It's no wonder the trains are empty. This line has been under threat in the past. However if the Galway service was routed back through Mullingar it would alleviate the pressure on the line into Heuston and provide a strong basis for an upgrade of the track.

KC61

rikki2 wrote: »

I find that difficult to accept. If I was driving to Dublin from Athlone, why would I turn off at moate go to Clara, then tullamore all the way down to Kildare, then upwards to portlaoise. I have a map of the full rail network including the disused track and its clear to see which is the shorter route.

The reality is that the mileage is based on the mileposts that are on the railway, and they are accurate. So, I'm afraid that short of going and taking a photograph of them for you I don't know what else I can do. The mileage is 81 via Portarlington and 79.25 via Mullingar, and you can tell me that you've looked at as many maps as you like, but that is fact.

The current railway from Athlone routes direct to Clara via Clonnydonnin and not Moate, and then direct to Tullamore and Portarlington. Dublin-Galway trains do not go near Portlaoise.

The railway from Clara to Moate was lifted in the early 1960s, while the line from Athlone to Mullinagar via Moate is still in situ.

rikki2 wrote: »

To come back to your point on the Sligo Dublin Line being conjested with Commuter trains from Maynooth to Connolly. Is this not also the case from Newbridge to Heuston? Also that line from Portlaoise to Heuston not alone serves Galway but also the Cork, Limerick, Mayo and Roscommon services. The only intercity service on the Sligo Line is just that, Sligo. What is clearly required is track improvement. I accept that the Line into Heuston is fast and as this debate goes on its becoming clearer that this is where Irish rail would like to develope as the main hub of its PALEway system.

Unless there is an ulterior motive to downgrade the Sligo service even further. It's offputting enough to have to travel for 2.5 hours on a commuter train. There is only one decent train running on that track per day. It's no wonder the trains are empty. This line has been under threat in the past. However if the Galway service was routed back through Mullingar it would alleviate the pressure on the line into Heuston and provide a strong basis for an upgrade of the track.

There are trains going to/from Limerick, Cork and Waterford along the line to/from Kildare, but never more than one an hour each, and most going more or less non-stop from Kildare to Dublin. The problem is the stopping services of which there are up to 5 an hour between Maynooth/Clonsilla and Connolly in the peak, and only perhaps two an hour on the Kildare route, which will run on separate tracks from Hazelhatch inwards once the current 4-tracking project is completed.

You obviously are not in any way familiar with the Sligo rail line. There are now 8 trains per day from Dublin to Sligo, all with the new Intercity railcars, and loadings have shot upwards.

The point is that there is no significant scope for improving the line speed on the section from Mullingar to Maynooth due to the curvature of the line and beyond getting the line speed increased 5mph to 75mph there is little more that can be done. The track can never deliver speeds of 90mph + simply due to the physical location of the permanent way no matter how much "upgrading" is done.

That rail line is going to become more and more congested with commuter services sharing the same tracks, while on the route out of Heuston they will be separated over the portion where the maximum number of stops are.

I agree there is a case for reopening Athlone-Mullingar as an alternative, but your case that it is going to be faster over the existing route via Portarlington holds no water whatsoever, due to location, other services, and permanent constraints that shape that route.

Sean9015

rikki2 wrote: »

I find that difficult to accept. If I was driving to Dublin from Athlone, why would I turn off at moate go to Clara, then tullamore all the way down to Kildare, then upwards to portlaoise. I have a map of the full rail network including the disused track and its clear to see which is the shorter route.

To come back to your point on the Sligo Dublin Line being conjested with Commuter trains from Maynooth to Connolly. Is this not also the case from Newbridge to Heuston? Also that line from Portlaoise to Heuston not alone serves Galway but also the Cork, Limerick, Mayo and Roscommon services. The only intercity service on the Sligo Line is just that, Sligo. What is clearly required is track improvement. I accept that the Line into Heuston is fast and as this debate goes on its becoming clearer that this is where Irish rail would like to develope as the main hub of its PALEway system.

Unless there is an ulterior motive to downgrade the Sligo service even further. It's offputting enough to have to travel for 2.5 hours on a commuter train. There is only one decent train running on that track per day. It's no wonder the trains are empty. This line has been under threat in the past. However if the Galway service was routed back through Mullingar it would alleviate the pressure on the line into Heuston and provide a strong basis for an upgrade of the track.

Sorry - why do you keep mentioning Portlaoise? The railway from Athlone to Dublin does not go within 10 miles of th place. It DOES go via Portarlington though, but then onto Kildare - not Kildare first.

I roughly agree with KC61's mileages. From Heuston to the closed Athlone station (which is accessible from Mullingar) is a shade under 81 miles. Connolly to Mullingar is 51.75 miles; Mullingar to Athlone I have as 27.9, giving a total of 79.65. This is partly because of the winding section between Mullingar and Dublin.

Granted that Hesuton is further west than Connolly, but the characteristics of the two lines are such that in modern circumstances, the route via Portarlington will always be quicker.

MOH

KC61 wrote: »

You obviously are not in any way familiar with the Sligo rail line. There are now 8 trains per day from Dublin to Sligo, all with the new Intercity railcars, and loadings have shot upwards.

"Now" as in since when? Less than two weeks ago I travelled on the Sligo line and it wasn't in a new Intercity railcar.

KC61

MOH wrote: »

"Now" as in since when? Less than two weeks ago I travelled on the Sligo line and it wasn't in a new Intercity railcar.

Sorry, I was referring to weekdays since the introduction of the new railcar on the morning/evening peak service to/from Gorey. The full service on the Sligo route is rostered as follows:

Monday - Thursday & Saturday:
All services are intercity railcars

Friday:
All services except the 1305 to Sligo and 1700 ex-Sligo are Intercity railcars due to the 1505 being strengthened to 6 coaches.

Sunday:
The 1305 and 1505 ex-Connolly and 1700 & 1900 ex-Sligo are 8-piece commuter railcars. Unless a late evening service to Sligo starts (2105) and perhaps a 6-piece comes over from Heuston on Sundays to help out there is little that can be done about this due to the fact that 3 x 6-piece sets need to overnight in Sligo to operate the 0545, 0700 and 0900 ex-Sligo on Monday morning.

The point is that there certainly is not just "one" good train on the route.

Gruffalo

rikki2 wrote: »

I find that difficult to accept. If I was driving to Dublin from Athlone, why would I turn off at moate go to Clara, then tullamore all the way down to Kildare, then upwards to portlaoise. I have a map of the full rail network including the disused track and its clear to see which is the shorter route.

Galway train does not go via Portlaoise.

Try looking at a map of the road network while you are at it. The journeys being compared are Dublin - Galway via Clara/Tullamore and Dublin - Galway via Mullingar / Moate. While the first part of your statement is correct i.e. you would not drive through Clara and Tullamore to go from Athlone to Dublin, you are forgetting that you would not go anywhere near Mullingar either.

rikki2

KC61 wrote: »

Despite appearances, the two routes are in fact more or less the same distance.

Having done some checking, the mileage from the existing station in Athlone to Heuston is 81 miles. The mileage from the old station (on the west side of the Shannon) to Connolly is 79.25 miles. Allowing for the fact that the two stations in Athlone are about 1 mile apart (by rail), and Connolly is about 2 miles beyond Heuston, that means a difference of less than 5 miles.

Thankyou for your most informative reply, I wasn't sure what you were basing your data on but you obviously have done your research on this. With reference to the curvature of the track I misunderstood you on that. I thought you were referring to the Mullingar to Athlone section. Having looked at amore detailed map I see the curve section alright between Maynooth and Mullingar. I stand corrected!
However I am right in that Irish Rail are continuing to use Suburban trains for the Journey to Sligo. I was on one 2 weeks ago. There were only 3 carriages on that train which is hardly full capacity. IAnd I can tell you that everyone hates them. The central doors to the carriage open at every stop and let ehat little heat there is in the Carriage out. THe seats are too hard and cramped for such a long journey. I only managed to get the new train once at 4:50m from Drumcondra. When Igot the return from Ballymote on the Sunday it was the same Arrow service
This thread has undoubtably gotten sidetracked (pardon the pun) from its main topic and I'd like to ask you what are your views on the withdrawal of the weekender discount card service?

KC61

rikki2 wrote: »

Thankyou for your most informative reply, I wasn't sure what you were basing your data on but you obviously have done your research on this. With reference to the curvature of the track I misunderstood you on that. I thought you were referring to the Mullingar to Athlone section. Having looked at amore detailed map I see the curve section alright between Maynooth and Mullingar. I stand corrected!
However I am right in that Irish Rail are continuing to use Suburban trains for the Journey to Sligo. I was on one 2 weeks ago. There were only 3 carriages on that train which is hardly full capacity. IAnd I can tell you that everyone hates them. The central doors to the carriage open at every stop and let ehat little heat there is in the Carriage out. THe seats are too hard and cramped for such a long journey. I only managed to get the new train once at 4:50m from Drumcondra. When Igot the return from Ballymote on the Sunday it was the same Arrow service
This thread has undoubtably gotten sidetracked (pardon the pun) from its main topic and I'd like to ask you what are your views on the withdrawal of the weekender discount card service?

No problem!

The use of the 29000 commuter railcars on the Sligo route is however now down to 4 return services per week (listed above), out of a total of 53 return services, a significant improvement on before. Unfortunately, this includes the two evening services to Dublin on Sundays, due to the fact that the longer trains need to overnight in Sligo to operate the first three trains in the morning.

As for the withdrawal of the Weekender card, yes I agree that it is a retrograde step. Also, I believe that the all-island rover tickets, the Emerald Card and the Irish Rover have been withdrawn.

All of these products were poorly marketed and I think that debatter has hit the nail upon the head in his post!

madmoe

Hi all,
I was using a weekender card to get reduced price on a weekend ticket to Mayo up until today when I was told that they are no longer being issued :-( Now the only way to get cheap fares is to go online!! That is what I was told when I just rang Heuston station today. That is pure BS...just checked and there is no way to get a cheap weekender ticket unless you have a fair card, does anyone know how to get one of these?

Typical of Iarnrod Eireann the weekender, is still advertised on their website here http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/your_ticket/leisure.asp even though it has not been offered apparently since January of this year??

Cheers,
M

Edit: The faircard only applies to people up to 25...bummer!

dereko1969

they're still on the website because people still have valid weekender cards, they're being phased out so as it states here
http://www.irishrail.ie/your_ticket/ticket_types.asp
No new Weekender ID cards will be issued. Customers already in possession of a valid Weekender ID card may purchase this ticket. Valid for outward travel Friday, Saturday or Sunday and for return up to the following Tuesday.

They have reduced fares to Westport to a tenner for non-weekend travel which is great value (or early on a Friday travel and late on a Monday).

madmoe

Early on Friday and back late on Monday is no good to me at all.....as I'm sure is the case for most other people as well :-(

bk

I must say the Cork to Dublin train is looking much, much quieter at weekends this year (yes taking into account it is summer and therefore less students).

Yesterdays 5:30 Cork to Dublin was only about quarter full, never seen it that quiet.

I'm guessing IR getting rid of the weekender card is driving passengers onto the vastly improved Cork to Dublin road.

Genius IR!

madmoe

Not to mention services like Go bus and City Link from Galway to Dublin where you get FREE WiFi on the bus for the duration of you trip. There is NO standing at all either!

I hope IR loose loads of customers over this!!

fh041205

What was the reason given for scrapping the weekender card? And please don't compare IR to a bus journey. I would gladly pay 3 or 4 times the price to get a train to Cork over a bus anyday.

bk

fh041205 wrote: »

What was the reason given for scrapping the weekender card? And please don't compare IR to a bus journey. I would gladly pay 3 or 4 times the price to get a train to Cork over a bus anyday.

In the past yet, but with the new roads it is getting harder to justify the extra expense of the train.

When the motorway is completed and if some one puts on real non stop express buses with toilets on board and free wifi, IR will be in serious trouble.

IR certainly aren't making it an easy choice with the cancellation of the weekender card.

madmoe

I agree. When the students come back in September there will be major over crowding on the 4.15 train I normally take home to Mayo on Friday evening. There have been times when I have had to stand up for a big part of the journey..... I spoke to a colleague here who goes to Cork on the train around the same time and had to stand ALL the way to Cork!!

I for one am not paying IR €48 for the pleasure of having to stand most of the journey!! It should be against the law that people have to stand on the train. They need to make the train longer of put another train on!

munchkin_utd

It should be against the law that people have to stand on the train. They need to make the train longer of put another train on!

OR do like spain or France where every ticket comes with a seat and you cant get on the train without a ticket for that specific train.

Anyhow, with the current system of FREE seat reservations you should never have to stand ever again.

Or another way of reducing overcrowding on the peak hours Friday evening trains would be to withdraw student and other discounts along with free travel passes for those overcrowded trains.
If you were cynical you could say that the overcrowding is caused by masses of people travelling paying a reduced or no fare at all.

madmoe

I for one will not be paying €48 for the pleasure of having to stand up!

munchkin_utd

madmoe wrote: »

I for one will not be paying €48 for the pleasure of having to stand up!

But, if you book online you have a seat guaranteed all to yourself, so for your 48 Euros you will have a seat.

I don't see the problem. Seat reservations exist so you dont have to stand. Having to stand is your problem, and getting a seat reservation is the solution.
And if no seats are available on your desired train (which is only the case if you book late in the day), choose another train with seats available.

And with a seat reservation the old peculiarity of travelling by irish railways of having to turn up 2 hours before the train departure to guarantee a seat is a thing of the past. Jeasus, that messing would nearly drive you to take a bus!

madmoe

That makes perfect sense....I was a bit slow on the uptake there ;-)

Cheers,
M