Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2007

Mitch Connor

why do you feel Shreeves was correct in his manner towarsd Ronaldo? Was there a need to ask him 4 times about the penalty, and basically ask him did he cheat?

Shreeves should appologise for his actions, but only those towards Ronaldo. As i said above, fergie should have handled it better, but in the same situation i'd have wanted to tell Shreeves to **** off too.

I'd be of the same opinion if it was Robben and Mourinho too, in the same situation. It would be understandable if Ronaldo had dived, but i honestly do not think he did, neither do any of the pundits i have heard speaking off the incident. Shreeves had no reason to go after Ronaldo in the way he did, as Ronaldo had done nothing wrong. If Shreeves wanted to have a go at someone, it should have been Southgate regarding the clear penalty, the cheat claims and Morrisons 'tackle'

event

Tauren wrote:

why do you feel Shreeves was correct in his manner towarsd Ronaldo? Was there a need to ask him 4 times about the penalty, and basically ask him did he cheat?

Shreeves should appologise for his actions, but only those towards Ronaldo. As i said above, fergie should have handled it better, but in the same situation i'd have wanted to tell Shreeves to **** off too.

I'd be of the same opinion if it was Robben and Mourinho too, in the same situation. It would be understandable if Ronaldo had dived, but i honestly do not think he did, neither do any of the pundits i have heard speaking off the incident. Shreeves had no reason to go after Ronaldo in the way he did, as Ronaldo had done nothing wrong. If Shreeves wanted to have a go at someone, it should have been Southgate regarding the clear penalty, the cheat claims and Morrisons 'tackle'

he is an interviewer

thats what he does

when a player has dived quite a lot in teh past, he is going to get asked about it when it there is another diving controversy/incident

apologise?

jesus christ, what have fans come to?
asking for people to apologise cos an interviewer asked him if he dived? Boo hoo, god love him. Perhaps if he had stayed on his feet in the past he wouldnt be asked such questions

PHB

I think the issue is that Ronaldo is being single-out compared to say Gerrard, Drogba, Fabregas etc.

Those sorts of questions would never be asked to Gerrard, and Fergie doesn't like it.
While he may have sounded like he lost his temper, Fergie always knows what hes doing, and I'm pretty sure the press will continue to be manipulated by him.

Sure just look at Boro and the press coverage they are getting. Not only is everybody calling them basically stupid in how they dealt with it, everybody is now starting to question their squad, and closer media inspection into that team is never a good thing.
As always, Fergie has played the media exactly where he wants them.

There is no discussion of the fact that for a large portion of that match, United were quite poor, and could easily have scored. It is only about how Ronaldo was treated, and how Boro reacted.
As always, it is genius

Green_Martian

Ronaldo has played very well this season, and one part of his game i love now is that he does not go down under the slightest challenge. The last few seasons he has fallen as if someone shot him when he was hardly touched, but i think this season there have been times when he could have gone down but didn't.

I personally think he is maturing as a player and is trying to cut down on the diving

Mitch Connor

event wrote:

he is an interviewer

thats what he does

when a player has dived quite a lot in teh past, he is going to get asked about it when it there is another diving controversy/incident

apologise?

jesus christ, what have fans come to?
asking for people to apologise cos an interviewer asked him if he dived? Boo hoo, god love him. Perhaps if he had stayed on his feet in the past he wouldnt be asked such questions

If it WAS a dive i would understand, but it clearly wasn't. I have no problem with ronaldo being asked about it, but the way it was asked, and the persistence shown is what got in my nerves.

Henry and Gerrard dive just as much as Ronaldo has done this season, yet this line of questioning is not put to them, i wonder why? Media darlings?

event

im not debating that henry and gerrard dive and they should be asked as well

but thats not the issue

and while he was asked a few times, again, boo hoo. He has made his bed so now he has to lie in it

i just cant believe fans are defending fergie. I know some are blinkered but come on lads

madds

Re: the SAF versus Shreeves altercation...have a listen to the Beeb's interview Southgate and listen very closely to the voices in the background the last 10 secs -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ots-4_h-V1M

Right at the end of the clip it sounds like SAF saying 'he's out of order... f*cking cretin' followed by Shreeves saying 'I asked' and then it cut out.

Mitch Connor

event wrote:

im not debating that henry and gerrard dive and they should be asked as well

but thats not the issue

and while he was asked a few times, again, boo hoo. He has made his bed so now he has to lie in it

i just cant believe fans are defending fergie. I know some are blinkered but come on lads

Yes, it is EXACTLY the issue.

Ronaldo was being singled out for unfair treatment by an interviewer who thought he could trip the foreign kid with slightly dodgy english up. If it had been Henry in the exact same situation, there is no way Shreeves would have behaved in the manner he did - and that is the point.

It was like watching a FOX news reporter interviewing a democrat.

Nalz

I'm 110% Manchester United fan to the core, love them to bits but I agree Fergie was in the wrong. Yes he has this warranted deserved untouchable ora about him, but none the less whether or not Ronaldo is being singled out Fergie was still in the wrong.

I think Ronaldo is singled out slightly. And maybe Fergie had the right and clever idea (as is said above he plays the media well) he just executed it wrong. It doesnt really matter that much though. Shreeves was doin his job, Fergie was doin his - he just went over board a little.

sprinkles

event wrote:

im not debating that henry and gerrard dive and they should be asked as well

but thats not the issue

and while he was asked a few times, again, boo hoo. He has made his bed so now he has to lie in it

i just cant believe fans are defending fergie. I know some are blinkered but come on lads

I don't think anyone is defending Fergie in what he said, although it is understandable but he should have reacted better. The problem lies with the manner in which the questions were put. I have no probem with Ronaldo being asked once or many times about his actions but Shreeves prodded in a smug and condecending way, as if he was going to be the big reporter that would have the balls to finally accuse Ronaldo of diving and have him admit it.

He acted inappropriately and should apologise for his MANNER of questioning.

Fergie too acted inappropiately and should apologise to Shreeves.

PHB

So what's everybodys thinking for the summer signings?
I think Hargreaves is pretty much a dead cert, the question is who else we buy.
Personally, I'd like to see another attacking bought.

I'm torn between a top class striker or a top class winger.
I think Giggs is getting on in years, and we need another top class winger to both get the best out of Giggs and get the best winger partnership in the country. Robben is still the one that got away imo.

I think with Rossi returning I'd rather see Saha-Rooney-Rossi-Ole as our 4 strikers next season, with a new winger bought, instead of a striker bought.
That said, Saha is very injury prone, and he isn't reliable.
I'm not sure I'd be happy just yet with a Rooney Rossi parternship for the majority of the season.

Personally with the addition of Hargreaves I can see another winger being bought, to allow for the 4-3-3 in Europe at the highest level. Rooney is not a world class winger, and he never will be, and can't be the left of a 4-3-3.
If it is going to be
Hargreaves-Carrick-Scholes
Ronaldo

---

x

---

Saha/Rooney

---

I think we need another top class winger.
Maybe Lennon, maybe Ribery, not sure really. I'm sure Fergie has someone in mind

Green_Martian

£6k for united. for poor behaviour of supporters
£40k for Lille. for reaction to goal and something else


Manchester United have been fined €9,256 (CHF 15,000) for the improper conduct of their fans at the game, which included the setting-off of fireworks and disturbances at the entrance to the stadium. Appeals may be lodged against the verdicts within three days of receipt of the written grounds for the decisions.

UEFA Link

herbieflowers

PHB wrote:

So what's everybodys thinking for the summer signings?
I think Hargreaves is pretty much a dead cert, the question is who else we buy.
Personally, I'd like to see another attacking bought.

I'm torn between a top class striker or a top class winger.
I think Giggs is getting on in years, and we need another top class winger to both get the best out of Giggs and get the best winger partnership in the country. Robben is still the one that got away imo.

I think with Rossi returning I'd rather see Saha-Rooney-Rossi-Ole as our 4 strikers next season, with a new winger bought, instead of a striker bought.
That said, Saha is very injury prone, and he isn't reliable.
I'm not sure I'd be happy just yet with a Rooney Rossi parternship for the majority of the season.

Personally with the addition of Hargreaves I can see another winger being bought, to allow for the 4-3-3 in Europe at the highest level. Rooney is not a world class winger, and he never will be, and can't be the left of a 4-3-3.
If it is going to be
Hargreaves-Carrick-Scholes
Ronaldo

---

x

---

Saha/Rooney

---

I think we need another top class winger.
Maybe Lennon, maybe Ribery, not sure really. I'm sure Fergie has someone in mind

Well if Hargreaves does sign, I hope he replaces Carrick - the most overrated, overpriced player ever! I don't know what he's added to the team, yeah he can pass but modern day midfielders need more than that. (eg Essien - can tackle, shoot, has pace, energy, strength)

I hope that the 4-3-3 is dropped completely. Simply, we can't play it. We don't have the right players. 4-4-2 is what we're good at, why not stick with that? At full pelt (with 4-4-2) we'd beat most, if not all top teams in Europe. The 4-3-3 hasn't worked, it's too negative imo and it doesn't get the best out of players like Ronaldo and Rooney, and I don't believe the addition of Hargreaves will solve that problem.

I'd say Man U will sign another striker, Solskjaer's getting on, I don't think Rossi will make it...papers say Gudjohnsen (well, the Sun)...wouldn't mind that...anorther Larsson-esque type player. I've always been an admirer. I hope we don't sign some "rated" striker like Torres, just someone to add depth to the strikeforce. Someone of Saha's ability, not world-class but will get goals and is a decent player. Signing a mercenary would be a bad idea imo.

I'd like to see Park get more of a chance next season - who knows, he may replace Giggs...

sprinkles

PHB wrote:

So what's everybodys thinking for the summer signings?

What about the portugues lad Nano (?)

I agree I'd like to see another attacking option brought in, not too sure it has to be a winger though. Giggs will be around next season with Park as backup. Fletch and richardson (if he's not sold) will be reserves in case of injuries. I htink we need another striker for the reasons you mentioned. We'll be a bit short with just Rooney, Saha (injury prone), Ole (getting on...) and Rossi (still unproven imo). I'd like to see a bid for David Villa or Torres but we have to get value for money.

tdv

We need alot of new players, its hard to know were to start.

A new right back, Neville has been very consistant this season but is getting on & will be finished in a year or 2 & Wes Brown is nothing.

A central midfielder, Carrick is average & its going to be hard for Scholes to play week in week out in a year or 2.

A winger, we all know about that.

A new striker, Saha is just not good enough.

A Goalkeeper, VDS will be gone after next season & Foster & Kuszczak are no good.

astrofool

tdv wrote:

We need alot of new players, its hard to know were to start.

A new right back, Neville has been very consistant this season but is getting on & will be finished in a year or 2 & Wes Brown is nothing.

A central midfielder, Carrick is average & its going to be hard for Scholes to play week in week out in a year or 2.

A winger, we all know about that.

A new striker, Saha is just not good enough.

A Goalkeeper, VDS will be gone after next season & Foster & Kuszczak are no good.

the mind boggles

PHB

The mind really really does boggle.

Neville has another 2 seasons in him, he is the captain, and Wes Brown is a pretty good cover, probably the best RB cover in the league.

Scholes can still play most games, and his game has never, and never will be, about his athleticism. Hargreaves will add to our midfield greatly.

VDS will still be here next season, so why would we need to replace him?
Ben Foster is always pushing Robinson while at Watford, and he's pretty much regarded universally this season as excellent.

A new winger is needed, as is a new striker.
I can't see us spending more than 35 million next summer, Hargreaves will be got for 15-20, so we will really only have enough money for one more player. In terms of youth talent in winger/striker, Rossi looks the best prospect, so lets invest in a winger

sprinkles

Yeah Foster's no good :rolleyes:

tdv

PHB wrote:

The mind really really does boggle.

Neville has another 2 seasons in him, he is the captain, and Wes Brown is a pretty good cover, probably the best RB cover in the league.

Scholes can still play most games, and his game has never, and never will be, about his athleticism. Hargreaves will add to our midfield greatly.

VDS will still be here next season, so why would we need to replace him?
Ben Foster is always pushing Robinson while at Watford, and he's pretty much regarded universally this season as excellent.


A new winger is needed, as is a new striker.
I can't see us spending more than 35 million next summer, Hargreaves will be got for 15-20, so we will really only have enough money for one more player. In terms of youth talent in winger/striker, Rossi looks the best prospect, so lets invest in a winger

Well I'm not saying they need sorting straight away but in the near future.

Wes Brown is crap. He had an alrite game against a poor Bolton side, didnt have to do to much in the game. I seen him against Fulham a few weeks ago he was brutal, Fergie nearly paid the price for dropping Neville in that game & if he's the type of back up we have it dosen't fill me with too much confidence. No excuses, not good enough.

Well were getting Hargreaves in the summer were dose that leave the 18million pound man?

Foster is unproven at the top level. He's pushing Robinson big deal, Robinson is no world beater himself. Bottom line is he's not in the same league as VDS. And the other fella is ****e.

MrPillowTalk

Evra is a possible option at left mid. Personally would love to see Torres at United. Most important business this summer is getting Ronnie to sign on the dotted line.

tdv

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Evra is a possible option at left mid. Personally would love to see Torres at United. Most important business this summer is getting Ronnie to sign on the dotted line.

I Thaught about that aswell.

tdv

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Evra is a possible option at left mid. Personally would love to see Torres at United. Most important business this summer is getting Ronnie to sign on the dotted line.[/QUOTE]

At a reasonable price.

MrPillowTalk

tdv wrote:

MrPillowTalk wrote:

Evra is a possible option at left mid. Personally would love to see Torres at United. Most important business this summer is getting Ronnie to sign on the dotted line.[/QUOTE]

At a reasonable price.

I think if they have to break the bank then thats what they should do, who could replace him? at what cost? and if he was sold inevitalbly it would haunt us when he's banging them in for Barca against us in the CL.

Mitch Connor

herbieflowers wrote:

Well if Hargreaves does sign, I hope he replaces Carrick - the most overrated, overpriced player ever! I don't know what he's added to the team, yeah he can pass but modern day midfielders need more than that. (eg Essien - can tackle, shoot, has pace, energy, strength)

I hope that the 4-3-3 is dropped completely. Simply, we can't play it. We don't have the right players. 4-4-2 is what we're good at, why not stick with that? At full pelt (with 4-4-2) we'd beat most, if not all top teams in Europe. The 4-3-3 hasn't worked, it's too negative imo and it doesn't get the best out of players like Ronaldo and Rooney, and I don't believe the addition of Hargreaves will solve that problem.

I'd say Man U will sign another striker, Solskjaer's getting on, I don't think Rossi will make it...papers say Gudjohnsen (well, the Sun)...wouldn't mind that...anorther Larsson-esque type player. I've always been an admirer. I hope we don't sign some "rated" striker like Torres, just someone to add depth to the strikeforce. Someone of Saha's ability, not world-class but will get goals and is a decent player. Signing a mercenary would be a bad idea imo.

I'd like to see Park get more of a chance next season - who knows, he may replace Giggs...

hmmmmm - we've gone from a team knocked out in the group stage of the CL, and finishing second in the league without ever looking like winning it, to a team in the CL quarters and top of the table by 6 points.

Yeah, what has Carrick added?

Carrick has been a fantastic signing, himself and scholes are great together.

event

yiz do have bardsley as well at villa, he is looking like a good prospect

Mitch Connor

event wrote:

yiz do have bardsley as well at villa, he is looking like a good prospect

I think Simpson is the better prospect at right back, i think bardsley is too limited to be a proper united fullback. he doesn't have the pace or skill to go past people, and isn't a great crosser of the ball. Simpson is ahead on all of those. However, Bardsley is the stronger defender, and is a very strong tackler.

madds

It's all about priorities at his stage. We all know Fergie is not going to be given a blank cheque by the Glazers so that he can make the signings that are required.

Defence
We bolstered the defence after purchasing Evra and Vidic last season and they have proven to be excellent signings. With Gabby back on form and Jonny Evans getting valuable experience at Sunderland, defence is not a priority. However, there is a possibility that Heinze will be shipped out and Bale will be brought in.

Midfield
Giggs and Scholes are not getting any younger as we know but they are both being spoken about in terms of the PFA awards so IMO we can get another 1/2 seasons out of them. Hargreaves is definitely coming, but the question remains do we require anything else? Nani from Sporting is being spoken about and Spurs have been making sounds about him in recent days. However, our relationship with Lisbon coupled with the Ronnie's recent form and adulation should see us in pole position to grab him....provided we want him.

Up Front
I don't see us adding to our strike force during the Sumer tbh. Smith and Ollie will leave and Rossi will return.

Potential sales (Heinze ~7m, Smith ~5m) = €12m
Potential purchases (Hargreaves ~20m, Bale ~8m, Nani ~12m) = ~€40m

Nett spend = ~€28m...can anyone see the Glazers giving us this much for transfers?

Feel free to tear holes in the above

PHB

Yeah, what has Carrick added?

Last year we didn't win the league. He joined us, and now we are winning the league.
Our best 11 last year?

---

VDS

---

Neville-Rio-Slyvestre--Heinze
Ronaldo-Scholes-Fletcher-Giggs

---

Rooney--Van Nist

---

This year

---

VDS

---

Neville-Rio----Vidic----Evra
Ronaldo-Carrick-Scholes-Giggs

---

Saha----Rooney

---

In terms of attack, the only difference is Carrick and Saha. You may say oh but Ronaldo and Scholes have been amazing, which they have, but theres a reason for it.
Carrick has made Ronaldo, Saha, and Giggs all better players.
He does the quiet dirty stuff, and he does offer quite a bit of protection, but most importantly, he is always availible to be passed to, and he always then passes on.
Carrick this year has been in the limelight because when he gets the ball, he knows the best thing to do is give it to Scholes, and let him make the magic, but he has that ability, and has done everything he could do.
He has been quietly very effective, and to be honest, I think he is beginning to earn that price tag.
With Hargreaves brought in, we have a very very very good trio of midfield players to choose from.

Is Nani a winger or a central midfielder?
Since he is at Sporting, we have first option on him.

fortuneg

Lisbon want 20m for Nani

madds

PHB wrote:

You may say oh but Ronaldo and Scholes have been amazing, which they have, but theres a reason for it.

Is Nani a winger or a central midfielder?

Scholes was missing for half of last season so while I agree that Carrick has been a great signing for us this season, the return of Scholes after his eye injury has also been a huge benefit.

Nani plays wide left/right or up front....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nani_%28footballer%29

PHB

Well then he'd be a great signing (assuming he is good, I've never seen him play)
If his buy out is 25 million Euro, he'd be what, 16 million? Buying him and Hargreaves would be a great bit of business, and would give us a really strong squad.
If Heinze does go he can be replaced with Bale. I can't imagine Bale costing more than we will get for Heinze, so its a net loss of 0.

herbieflowers

Tauren wrote:

hmmmmm - we've gone from a team knocked out in the group stage of the CL, and finishing second in the league without ever looking like winning it, to a team in the CL quarters and top of the table by 6 points.

Yeah, what has Carrick added?

Carrick has been a fantastic signing, himself and scholes are great together.

Yeah sure point taken, obviously. But the point is that Carrick is a limited player, and in all fairness, it wouldn't take much to be a better midfielder than Fletcher or O'Shea. Point is, for 18m we could have signed someone better. Yes, we're doing well but if we want to challenge cosistently in Europe we need someone better, better quality generally. Carrick isn't that.

tdv

MrPillowTalk wrote:

tdv wrote:

I think if they have to break the bank then thats what they should do, who could replace him? at what cost? and if he was sold inevitalbly it would haunt us when he's banging them in for Barca against us in the CL.

Ribery,Malouda,Nani or Robinho?

PHB

Of course we could have gotten somebody better for 18 million, sorry, who was it?
Last summer, tell me, what midfield we could have gotten that was better than Carrick for 18 million?

Transfer prices are not a reflection of how good the player is.

herbieflowers

Makoun, much tidier player, much more of an effective midfielder. I never said transfer prices were a reflection of someone's ability, all I said was that it was a waste of money.

madds

herbieflowers wrote:

Yeah sure point taken, obviously. But the point is that Carrick is a limited player, and in all fairness, it wouldn't take much to be a better midfielder than Fletcher or O'Shea. Point is, for 18m we could have signed someone better. Yes, we're doing well but if we want to challenge cosistently in Europe we need someone better, better quality generally. Carrick isn't that.

But surely the point is that if we look through European football we can all find players who are better than some if not all of the current Utd team when comparing them 1 to 1? The sum is greater than its parts and all that....

Fergie needed a holding player who could also knock it about a bit. Granted Carrick isn't a holding player in the traditional sense but he does allow Scholes to get fwd and involve himself more in building attacks than if Fletch or O'Shea were playing instead of him. The point is that Carrick can still play a killer ball whilst under pressure, whilst also breaking up his fair share of opposition attacks. I lost count of the number of times O'Shea lost possession last season tying to play simple/killer balls.

If we win the title this season, then an initial €14m outlay for an English holding player (not many of them around) plus an extra €4m for capturing the title will have been money well spent.

My only question is how will Fergie play Carrick and Hargreaves together?

1. Play Carrick as a DM and let Hargreaves push on?
2. Play Hargreaves as a DM and let Carrick push on?
3. Play both Hargreaves and Carrick as DM's giving greater attacking license to wingers & strikers and also encouraging fullbacks to push on at every opportunity?

herbieflowers

madds wrote:

But surely the point is that if we look through European football we can all find players who are better than some if not all of the current Utd team when comparing them 1 to 1? The sum is greater than its parts and all that....

Fergie needed a holding player who could also knock it about a bit. Granted Carrick isn't a holding player in the traditional sense but he does allow Scholes to get fwd and involve himself more in building attacks than if Fletch or O'Shea were playing instead of him. The point is that Carrick can still play a killer ball whilst under pressure, whilst also breaking up his fair share of opposition attacks. I lost count of the number of times O'Shea lost possession last season tying to play simple/killer balls.

If we win the title this season, then an initial €14m outlay for an English holding player (not many of them around) plus an extra €4m for capturing the title will have been money well spent.

My only question is how will Fergie play Carrick and Hargreaves together?

1. Play Carrick as a DM and let Hargreaves push on?
2. Play Hargreaves as a DM and let Carrick push on?
3. Play both Hargreaves and Carrick as DM's giving greater attacking license to wingers & strikers and also encouraging fullbacks to push on at every opportunity?

I agree, but I don't thik Carrick is great under pressure...he's great when no-one's around him and he has the time and space t play a pass - he's always been like that, a casual player. I just think 18m could have signed a better player that's all...yes he allows Scholes to get forward, but I wouldn't agree that he breaks up attacks...he's a poor tackler imo

madds

Fair enough HerbieFlowers.

But I also held the same view as you at the start of the season. I must admit however, my opinion of Carrick changed as time went on. I found myself watching him very closely in matches. He doesn't make any Keane-like tackles but what he does do is close down the space very well and close off potential passes by the opposition.

Fletch and O'Shea are players who react after the pass has been played....Carrick seems to be a better reader of where the danger is coming from and hence his presence has made Utd more defensively sound this season.

Mitch Connor

madds wrote:

But surely the point is that if we look through European football we can all find players who are better than some if not all of the current Utd team when comparing them 1 to 1? The sum is greater than its parts and all that....

Fergie needed a holding player who could also knock it about a bit. Granted Carrick isn't a holding player in the traditional sense but he does allow Scholes to get fwd and involve himself more in building attacks than if Fletch or O'Shea were playing instead of him. The point is that Carrick can still play a killer ball whilst under pressure, whilst also breaking up his fair share of opposition attacks. I lost count of the number of times O'Shea lost possession last season tying to play simple/killer balls.

If we win the title this season, then an initial €14m outlay for an English holding player (not many of them around) plus an extra €4m for capturing the title will have been money well spent.

My only question is how will Fergie play Carrick and Hargreaves together?

1. Play Carrick as a DM and let Hargreaves push on?
2. Play Hargreaves as a DM and let Carrick push on?
3. Play both Hargreaves and Carrick as DM's giving greater attacking license to wingers & strikers and also encouraging fullbacks to push on at every opportunity?

if we get hargreaves, i reckon carrick will eventually take Scholes place in a 442, with Hargreaves becoming the DM.

This will provide a strong centre, allowing the wingers and full backs to push on. It would be a CM pairing like Alonso and Sissoko at Liverpool.

stooge

PHB wrote:

Last year we didn't win the league. He joined us, and now we are winning the league. Carrick has made Ronaldo, Saha, and Giggs all better players.
He does the quiet dirty stuff, and he does offer quite a bit of protection, but most importantly, he is always availible to be passed to, and he always then passes on.

He has been quietly very effective, and to be honest, I think he is beginning to earn that price tag.

I had my reservations when we shelled out 18m for a guy who cant get in his own national team regularly. I still have them...

Obviously we're never gonna replace Keane, and any centre mid will always be compared to him, but I don't think Carrick is the reason were top. Last year Scholes was missing for a good part of the season. Having him back regularly this year is one of the main reasons we're top now and doing well in the cups.

Don't get me wrong, I think Carrick is a good player, but he's definitely not a tough tackling mid or ball winner. He doesnt do 'quiet dirty stuff', he does nice passing from just in front of the back line. Apart from that he hasnt added too much attacking influence nor has he been a rock in front of the defence. Hargreaves, IMO would add much more, especially when it comes to big games against big players e.g. Chelsea (essien, ballack), Liverpool (Gerrard), Europe.

Youre probably gonna argue that he wasnt bought to be an attacking midfielder, if thats the case why didnt we spend that 18m to get an essien type player who does defending and attacking?

One thing we can agree upon though is that if we win the league and cups it wont matter how much they over spend on certain players.

Mitch Connor

stooge wrote:

I had my reservations when we shelled out 18m for a guy who cant get in his own national team regularly. I still have them...

Obviously we're never gonna replace Keane, and any centre mid will always be compared to him, but I don't think Carrick is the reason were top. Last year Scholes was missing for a good part of the season. Having him back regularly this year is one of the main reasons we're top now and doing well in the cups.

Don't get me wrong, I think Carrick is a good player, but he's definitely not a tough tackling mid or ball winner. He doesnt do 'quiet dirty stuff', he does nice passing from just in front of the back line. Apart from that he hasnt added too much attacking influence nor has he been a rock in front of the defence. Hargreaves, IMO would add much more, especially when it comes to big games against big players e.g. Chelsea (essien, ballack), Liverpool (Gerrard), Europe.

Youre probably gonna argue that he wasnt bought to be an attacking midfielder, if thats the case why didnt we spend that 18m to get an essien type player who does defending and attacking?

One thing we can agree upon though is that if we win the league and cups it wont matter how much they over spend on certain players.

even beofre scholes injury, he was fairly poor. While scholes has been great, Scholes' confidence in Carrick to be able to run for 90minutes AND not screw up either positionally or in passing unlike Keane (of his last season and a half) Smith, O'Shea and Fletcher.

Its the combination of the two that has been instrumental in putting us top of the league. when either are missing from the side, it is very very noticable.

Granted, i'd have prefered Essien over him, but oh well, that wasn't gonna happen.

While Carrick is not the tough tackling midfielder some wanted, i think it is unfair to say he does not do the dirty stuff. Ferdinand is not a tough tackling defender, but he is still a cracking defender. He closes space down, he runs the opposition out of play, he makes interceptions. Like Makalele (but not as world class as Makalele)

As for saying he hasn't added to the team, i think that is just silly. The ability to actually keep the ball is very very important, and it is what Carrick does. While he doesn't have many goals, or assists, he is an important part of the creation of goals. Passes and plays go through him, as they do Scholes.

He is a very undervalued player imo.

When you say we should have signed an Essien type player, i agree - but seriously, there weren't any around. Who would you have gone for (that we could have actually got)

PHB

but he's definitely not a tough tackling mid or ball winner. He doesnt do 'quiet dirty stuff'

Find me somebody who thinks he is.
He is a midfielder, in the Pirlo mould. He doesn't make tackles like Keane, but Keane could never pass like Carrick.
Carrick is probably the best passer of the ball at United.

Obviously we all would have loved Essien, but he is without a doubt in the Roy Keane mould, and can't pass the ball as well as Carrick.

Makoun has done nothing to suggest he is at the level of Carrick, especially considering the quality of the french league.

herbieflowers

PHB wrote:

Find me somebody who thinks he is.
He is a midfielder, in the Pirlo mould. He doesn't make tackles like Keane, but Keane could never pass like Carrick.
Carrick is probably the best passer of the ball at United.

Obviously we all would have loved Essien, but he is without a doubt in the Roy Keane mould, and can't pass the ball as well as Carrick.

Makoun has done nothing to suggest he is at the level of Carrick, especially considering the quality of the french league.

Yeah fine, he's a good passer, but under pressure, I don't know. For me, and this goes back to when Carrick was at Spurs and West Ham, Carrick needs lots of space and time to use the ball efectively. I remeber watchnig the England tour of the US too and the pundits, correctly, pinting out that he needs far too much time. Put him under any amount of pressure and he'll lose it. I don't think he's retains the ball well as people think.

As for Makoun, he was the standout player for Lille imo (well, one of) against Man U recently. He rarely lost the ball, did the dirty stuff...I was well imprersssed and I can understand why Fergie was sniffing around earlier in the summer...(and if you're going to pick on players for the quality of their leagues, what about Shevchencko for Dinamo Kiev? He, like Makoun, showedhis true ability in the CL, that's how players gain a reputation)

fortuneg

Out of all the factors that have improved the team from last season i personally think the addition of Carrick plays one of the smallest parts.

I don't believe he does much quiet dirty work, he's quite a poor tackler, he won't put his head in and challenge for a ball in the air despite being a tall lad (6 ft 2 in), he takes far too much time on the ball and doesn't really have the ability to retain it when challenged.
Although having said all that when he is given time to pick his pass he can deliver a nice ball!

The main positive factors this season have been:

1. The return of Scholes, we were severly lacking in creativity and attack in the centre last season.
2. The emergence of Vidic as a quality centre back (we've conceded 9 less goals this season than we did at the same time last season)
3. Ronaldo adding some end product to his game, as well as not losing the ball as foolishly as he used to (you can't underestimate the importance of him carrying the ball as far as he regularly does which allows the defence to reorganize themselves).
4. We don't just rely on 1 target man, nearly everyone on the team has been chipping in with goals this season (we've scored 12 more this season than at the same time last season)

I think people need to stop trying to justify Carricks price tag by heaping undeserved praise on him, he plays a quiet passing job in midfield and thats pretty much it.

Mitch Connor

personally, i think you are being harsh on carrick - i do think he is undervalued. Not every DM has to be a balls to the walls player. There are other players i would have prefered, and i do think we paid pver the top for him (should have been 10million max) but he is a United player, and i will judge him based on how i think he actually performs for us, as opposed to the player people wish we had bought

besty

On foot of the little football I've seen him play and todays game against Ireland, Gareth Bale hasn't looked too good at all. Perhaps he just shines in the Championship...

Headshot

besty wrote:

On foot of the little football I've seen him play and todays game against Ireland, Gareth Bale hasn't looked too good at all. Perhaps he just shines in the Championship...

to be fair he's only 17 and in a very bad team

S.M.B.

Find it hard to believe that Utd can lose 3 out of their next 6 games with Chelsea getting maximum points from their next 6 games yet winning the title would still be in our own hands! It would mean we would have to get all 3 points at Stamford bridge, which we are well capable of doing at the moment, but we still wouldn't be relying on any Chelsea slip up. :eek:

Nunu

It seems Roy Keane is a fan of Ronaldo....I wonder what Dunphy et al think of that?

I know whos opinion I'd respect more.

Roy Keane has spoken of his admiration for Cristiano Ronaldo and admits he would pay to watch him play.

The Manchester United winger has been dubbed 'the best in the world' by numerous pundits, and his former captain feels that statement is deserved.

Sunderland chief Keane told the Sunday Mirror: "I think Ronaldo is outstanding.

"If you had asked me two or three years ago I would have told you he could go on to be the best player in the world.

"I thought that would happen after he had been playing over a longer period of time, but his form this season has been a different class.

"The skills Ronaldo has are frightening," he added. "He is an entertainer and fans at United love that.

"It is great to see and they are the type of players you would pay to watch."

United are still in line to land an historic Treble and Ronaldo has played a massive part in that standing.

He has scored an impressive 16 goals so far this season making him the leading scorer at the club ahead of the likes of Wayne Rooney and Louis Saha.

Keane, who was part of the Treble-winning side in 1999, believes United can go on and land that feat again.

"I am sure the Treble win of 1999 could be emulated," he said. "They are in good form - but they need luck, though."

The Sunderland boss, who has been enjoying a good run of form with his club in the Championship in his first managerial role, is looking forward to the quarter-finals of the UEFA Champions League.

He believes United have a good chance of being the second English club in three years to land the European trophy.

He said: "It'll be hard but I think an English team has a good chance this year."

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=456774&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=2&title=Keane:+I'd+pay+to+watch+Ronaldo

cournioni

{(-_-)}HeadShoT** wrote:

to be fair he's only 17 and in a very bad team

Well then he could at least shine in a bad team. Lets be honest, he's completely overrated. He couldn't even get past O'Shea once FFS! :rolleyes: