Manchester United Transfer Rumours/Discussion 2007

Sizzler

PHB wrote:

In games where we dropped points, it was because of midfield. Carrick and Scholes couldn't impose themselves in those games, and Hargreaves would be the type of player we could have. It would be alternating, depending on the type of game.Boro and Portsmouth are good examples of this. Also Milan away, Roma away, and hell, Lille away.

I dont think Hargreaves could have stopped Rio scoring that OG against Pompey

I dont believe Hargreaves is worth 20m anyway tbh. But who else is there Surely has to be a few decent DF midfielders in Italy, France or Spain available for less money, probably more experienced as well.

I reckon Fergie might spring one surprise on us this close season and sign someone that nobody expected....hopefully in a good way tho!

gracehopper

Sizzler wrote:

The Nani lad looks half decent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECH5e_Nns0Y

Class goal where he turned on the halfway line and buried it after a 30 yard run!

I understand its easy to look good when the highlights are compiled on you tube but i say sign him up. He looks the business and wants to come by the looks of things click

irishpartyboy

I really mean replace RVN with a top notch proven striker, not necessarily someone who fits his mould. ETO have proved himself to be top class.

Our attacking style is much more dynamic and interchangeable now thats for sure, ETO would certainly fit in IMO.

SAF usually identifies several major targets, usually only landing one. BERBATOV is also a very interesting player, funnily enough he never looked as good playing for Leverkusen. But he's certainly proved himself this season to be outstanding in a Top 8 side.

_blank_

S.M.B. wrote:

I'm secretly hoping West Brom get promoted through the playoffs so we can flog off Richardson to them.

Well it's not much of a secret anymore is it?

irishpartyboy

Well as long as no boardies tip off Tony Mowbray, then there's always hope.

seansouth wrote:

Well it's not much of a secret anymore is it?

S.M.B.

seansouth wrote:

Well it's not much of a secret anymore is it?

What I meant is that I'd like Wolves to get promoted due to the Irish connection but if it means getting rid of Richardson I'd happily see West Brom go up.

adox

The Muppet wrote:

LOL

Who was the roll eyes at then if not me?


Do you not think Heinze will be sold this summer, I think he will and even if not Sylvestre is definitely on the way out and Bale tcould well be one for the future.?

The roll eyes were for the fact that we keep being linked with Bale who is a left back which seems to be the strongest position in the whole squad.I dont really knoe if Heinze will be sold,I`d like to think not as himself and Evra would keep each other on their toes competing for the one position.
Silvestre on the other hand is a disaster waiting to happen every game and I`ll be glad to see the back of him.:)

adox

PHB wrote:

We sign Hargreaves for about 20 million.
If we have, and this is optimistic, another 20 million to spend, we're gona obviously have to sell Saha to make up the money. If Eto did come, IF, then Saha would be surplus to requirements anyway.

I was listening to Graham Hunter? this morning on Newstalk and he reckons that United arer trying to bargain Munich down now as the whole saga has gone on so long.He said that Munich want 20 million euros for Hargreaves and United are looking for him for 15 million.Either way its considerably less than is being quoted in the papers.

He also said there was nothing in the Eto story.

Necronomicon

adox wrote:

He also said there was nothing in the Eto story.

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Grahem Hunter stake his house on Ronaldo going to Madrid? Y'know, before he signed his new United contract.

Attractive Nun

I really think Eto'o is a bad idea. When has Alex Ferguson ever signed a big-name, established player that has worked out well? Don't get me wrong, he's a smashing player and I wouldn't exactly be upset if we signed him but for the money we'd be spending it strikes me as a poor move. African players have generally adapted well to the Premiership, but the idea we'd get him for anything much below 30 million is unlikely. Chelsea might not be content to give Shevchenko another try, Juventus have no decent strikers really, Liverpool look like they are poised to break the bank on someone - there will be competition.

I'd be happy to let the big clubs distract themselves over Eto'o while we go for Huntelaar. Reckon Hargreaves is a done deal, and Nani is just a matter of SAF judging if he's good enough.

adox

Necromomicon wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Grahem Hunter stake his house on Ronaldo going to Madrid? Y'know, before he signed his new United contract.

Yeah you could be right,I`m just reporting what he said:D

I`d love to see Eto at United but I just cant see it.Fergusons no 1 target is a midfielder and also Eto while being fantastic on the pitch has a bit of a bad reputation off it,which wont sit well with ALex.

PHB

When has Alex Ferguson ever signed a big-name, established player that has worked out well?

Ruud Van Nist
Rio Ferdinand

Veron was the big failure signing, but the other two were quite sucessful.

Huntelaar is too slow and just a poor mans Ruud. I can't see why Fergie would get rid of Ruud to buy a similar but lesser version of him.

Hunter talks a lot of **** to be honest.

zAbbo

Eto'o has looked off par since his injury, and looks certain to move this summer, especially after the disruption he caused earlier.

Attractive Nun

PHB wrote:

Ruud Van Nist
Rio Ferdinand

Forgot about Ruud, fair point. I wouldn't put Ferdinand in the same bracket - great defender, no doubt - but his excessive pricetag I think makes him out to be a bigger player than he was at the time. Anyway, my point was that practically all of Ferguson's most successful purchases (Ruud is the exception) have been of middle-of-the-road or very promising, youngish players who go on to be fantastic. Cantona, Keane, Irwin, Schmeicel, Kanchelskis, Rooney (maybe another exception), Ronaldo, Solskjaer etc. I guess this applies more to attacking players than defensive - Stam and Pallister were pretty expensive too I think - but I do think that there is something about the United setup that makes it more conducive to young players joining than older ones.

If you take the current United starting XI (no I don't have a life) excluding VDS, the average age at which the players made their debut for the team is just over 21. The oldest three were Michael Carrick, Louis Saha and Patrice Evra - arguably the three least impressive of the starting line-up? Looking through the squad with the likes of Fletcher, O'Shea, Richardson, Solskjaer (23) I reckon the number would be similar. It's probably the same for any team, but for United in particular it seems important that players grow up with the style of play rather than just being thrown into it. It doesn't always work, of course, as Kleberson and DjembaX2 will testify, but it usually does.

It's well known that Ferguson prefers younger players when he can, but even when you do look through the times he has gone for older ones, it isn't a great record. Veron is the obvious one, but Laurent Blanc was a bit of a mistake, Teddy Sheringham wasn't great and I'm sure there are a few others. If anyone can buck this trend, then Eto'o is the man to do it, but it's a bit of a risk IMO.

PHB wrote:

Huntelaar is too slow and just a poor mans Ruud. I can't see why Fergie would get rid of Ruud to buy a similar but lesser version of him.

I think Huntelaar looks a smashing player, maybe not the quickest - which I recognise is United's strength at the moment - but he is a good deal more mobile around the box than Ruud was and I think he could easily adapt his game to be the man who's always there when Rooney or Ronaldo need someone to offload to. He has a decent shot from long range, and could probably play the Smith VS Roma role, only more consistently.

herbieflowers

I just think Eto'o is too much of a prima donna...and I'd agree with AN, money could be tight this summer anyway...I'd expect to see a low-key striker signing...plus I don't think Eto would be suited to the rough-and-tumble nature of the Premiership...plus the thing with strikers for Man U is that they need to sign them young, Man U can't afford to buy Eto'o, who's what, 26 (I know very "old") for 20-30m and get three good seasons, they'd want to be looking more long-term I'd say...RVN was signed when he was 24

Baggly

Attractive Nun wrote:

Teddy Sheringham wasn't great

If Teddy wasnt great when when he was scoring every now and again while cole and yorke were stealing the limelight by banging them in, he certainly was great the year he won PFA player of the year and was top scorer in the league. then there is of course Yorke to consider in your older players who were bought were not as good theory.

cardshark202

Attractive Nun wrote:

Forgot about Ruud, fair point. I wouldn't put Ferdinand in the same bracket - great defender, no doubt - but his excessive pricetag I think makes him out to be a bigger player than he was at the time. Anyway, my point was that practically all of Ferguson's most successful purchases (Ruud is the exception) have been of middle-of-the-road or very promising, youngish players who go on to be fantastic. Cantona, Keane, Irwin, Schmeicel, Kanchelskis, Rooney (maybe another exception), Ronaldo, Solskjaer etc. I guess this applies more to attacking players than defensive - Stam and Pallister were pretty expensive too I think - but I do think that there is something about the United setup that makes it more conducive to young players joining than older ones.

If you take the current United starting XI (no I don't have a life) excluding VDS, the average age at which the players made their debut for the team is just over 21. The oldest three were Michael Carrick, Louis Saha and Patrice Evra - arguably the three least impressive of the starting line-up? Looking through the squad with the likes of Fletcher, O'Shea, Richardson, Solskjaer (23) I reckon the number would be similar. It's probably the same for any team, but for United in particular it seems important that players grow up with the style of play rather than just being thrown into it. It doesn't always work, of course, as Kleberson and DjembaX2 will testify, but it usually does.

It's well known that Ferguson prefers younger players when he can, but even when you do look through the times he has gone for older ones, it isn't a great record. Veron is the obvious one, but Laurent Blanc was a bit of a mistake, Teddy Sheringham wasn't great and I'm sure there are a few others. If anyone can buck this trend, then Eto'o is the man to do it, but it's a bit of a risk IMO.



I think Huntelaar looks a smashing player, maybe not the quickest - which I recognise is United's strength at the moment - but he is a good deal more mobile around the box than Ruud was and I think he could easily adapt his game to be the man who's always there when Rooney or Ronaldo need someone to offload to. He has a decent shot from long range, and could probably play the Smith VS Roma role, only more consistently.

absolute rubbish. Teddy was a quality signing, as was Yorke. Blanc wasn't great but he was bought more for his experience. Veron was under-rated imo, and I think it was a mistake to sell him, we were just about to see the best of him imo. He is incredibly talented, he was just taking a while to settle.
Anyway, as it is, I would like to see Nani, Eto'o/Tevez/Berbatov, Hargreaves and maybe a young RB to eventually take over from Neville.

LegacyUser

Get Eto in! Take the risk! 30 million on him...do it. What a player. What a dream that would be. This man has the arrogance of Cantona, he can't be more outrageous than Cantona...get him in and let him do his thing...

herbieflowers

We don't have ze money!

herbieflowers

or we could go for Sidwell instead of Hargreaves freeing up about 10m or so...just putting it out there!

Im_No_Superman

I think Hargeaves is a certainty. Not sure about Eto, one of the reasons Fergie sold Ruud was because he thought he was having a negative effect on the dressing room, Eto might bring those kind of problems back, he has abit of a history of fallings out, no denying his quality though. What do you reckon about putting abid in for Benni McCarthy? 16 league goals this year, bags of experience. A front line of Rooney, McCarthy, Rossi, Saha wouldnt be too bad in my opinion.

evad_lhorg

herbieflowers wrote:

or we could go for Sidwell instead of Hargreaves freeing up about 10m or so...just putting it out there!

Sidwell is on a free at the end of the season I do believe

herbieflowers

interesting...I thought he had 12monoths left or something - even better! Utd to sign Sidwell on a free! Haha!

Seaneh

PHB wrote:

Ruud Van Nist

Hunter talks a lot of **** to be honest.

Pot, kettle, black.

evad_lhorg

confirmation

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=460372&plid=11735&clid=108&cpid=8

Sizzler

Erm, Sidwell versus Gattuso in next years champtions league

Borowski, get him in ! Hes a close marker anyway !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUNzkp01_dY

herbieflowers

But he'd be perfect in a midfield with Scholes - Gattuso wouldn't know who is who...marking Sidwell out of it thinking he was Scholes thus giving Scholes the space to score the first CL double hat-trick!

PHB

Pot, kettle, black.

Good contribution.
Wait, that might have been me talking ****.

evad_lhorg

herbieflowers wrote:

But he'd be perfect in a midfield with Scholes - Gattuso wouldn't know who is who...marking Sidwell out of it thinking he was Scholes thus giving Scholes the space to score the first CL double hat-trick!

we might be on to somethin here

evad_lhorg

herbieflowers wrote:

But he'd be perfect in a midfield with Scholes - Gattuso wouldn't know who is who...marking Sidwell out of it thinking he was Scholes thus giving Scholes the space to score the first CL double hat-trick!

we might be on to somethin here

evad_lhorg

herbieflowers wrote:

But he'd be perfect in a midfield with Scholes - Gattuso wouldn't know who is who...marking Sidwell out of it thinking he was Scholes thus giving Scholes the space to score the first CL double hat-trick!

we might be on to somethin here

event

herbieflowers wrote:

I just think Eto'o is too much of a prima donna...and I'd agree with AN, money could be tight this summer anyway...I'd expect to see a low-key striker signing...plus I don't think Eto would be suited to the rough-and-tumble nature of the Premiership...plus the thing with strikers for Man U is that they need to sign them young, Man U can't afford to buy Eto'o, who's what, 26 (I know very "old") for 20-30m and get three good seasons, they'd want to be looking more long-term I'd say...RVN was signed when he was 24

dwight yorke was around 25 in the treble season, didnt do him any harm

if manu want to win the champions league, that is what they need, an established strike partner to play with rooney. playing rooney up front with another 21 year old wont work. Eto would be suited i think, he did ok against chelsea, and they are as physical as they come, he is quite a strong wee player. i cannot see another top striker who could play with manu's game at the minute.

sprinkles

zabbo wrote:

Eto'o has looked off par since his injury, and looks certain to move this summer, especially after the disruption he caused earlier.

hasn't he been of form of late, scoring 10 goals I think (??)

In fact:

match report - 1st match back after injury wrote:

Barcelona celebrated Samuel Eto'o's first start since September with an impressive 3-0 victory over struggling Athletic Bilbao in the Nou Camp last night.

Eto'o looked sharp as he played 66 minutes, scoring once and playing a part in both other Barça goals

EDIT

skysports wrote:

Despite scoring his seventh goal in all competitions since returning from a five-month lay-off with a meniscus injury,

7 goals, still it's a decent return considering he's struggling with fitness.

shatners basoon

herbieflowers wrote:

But he'd be perfect in a midfield with Scholes - Gattuso wouldn't know who is who...marking Sidwell out of it thinking he was Scholes thus giving Scholes the space to score the first CL double hat-trick!

Best post ever (even as a pool fan!)

shatners basoon

event wrote:

dwight yorke was around 25 in the treble season, didnt do him any harm

if manu want to win the champions league, that is what they need, an established strike partner to play with rooney. playing rooney up front with another 21 year old wont work. Eto would be suited i think, he did ok against chelsea, and they are as physical as they come, he is quite a strong wee player. i cannot see another top striker who could play with manu's game at the minute.

If United wanna win the Champions League they just need a slightly better squad (for freshness), better tactics and most importantly the character to do it on the day which is what all cup competitions are all about.

The price United are being given for Eto (according to newspaper reports anyway more like 40million) are a bit hefty methinks but to be expected for a player his class. Owen is too much of an injury liability and would be better off getting bought in say January to see how his fitness levels are. Personally i think ye should again go for an unknown/up and coming as thats where most of you're success has been at.

Mitch Connor

Tevez at around 10million would be good business. He is not a classic lead the line striker, but i reckon he would form an awesome front three with Roonay and Ronaldo.

Imagine the following team for next season:

....................Foster
Nevill.....Ferdinand....Vidic...Evra
............Carrick...Hargreaves
..................Scholes
...Ronaldo.....Rooney....Tevez

Bench: van der Saar, Brown, Fletcher, Rossi, Nani.

I reckon that team would do very well. The potential pace, movement and ability of the front three is scary.

shatners basoon

Reminds me of the way Roma play, no actual strikers, all attacking midfielderesque players.
Teves is too like Rooney i think but then again maybe it could work. I'd say he'd cost more than 10 million though.

Mitch Connor

the beauty of it is they can all play out wide and can all play through the centre - they could swap continiously throughout a game and give the opposition a real headache.

Tevez a lot like Rooney, but that is a good thing! Granted it would mean hoofed balls into the penalty area are likely to come straigt back, but i freakin hate hoofed balls anyway!

PHB

What United are missing in the CL is somebody in the midfield who can take control of a game.
Gattuso did that against us, and we couldn't match it. We could match Milan pretty much everywher else on the park (if we didn't have injuries), we we couldn't match them there.

shatners basoon

You didn't match milan anywhere in the park in the San Siro, not a shred of effort was put in.
united are better than Milan but on the night they thrashed you as you surrendered to them (similar to the way Roma surrendered to you when you destroyed them with effort and clinical finishing) In a cup competition if you let you concentration slip you're done for so its not so much the players but the team thats important.

leninbenjamin

shatners basoon wrote:

You didn't match milan anywhere in the park in the San Siro, not a shred of effort was put in.
united are better than Milan but on the night they thrashed you as you surrendered to them (similar to the way Roma surrendered to you when you destroyed them with effort and clinical finishing) In a cup competition if you let you concentration slip you're done for so its not so much the players but the team thats important.

meh, United could still do with a bit more of a physical presence in midfield at times regardless. Carrick and Scholes are just a bit too lightweight at times. they need someone a bit better at breaking up play. Fletcher can do the job, but i dunno still if hes good enough to warant a position in the team long term. he could come good i guess, given a prolonged period in the team but it's unlikely. Mikel was being bought for this, Djemba-Djemba too, Hargreaves, it's still a player that United don't have and could do with at times.

shatners basoon

I'd agree but what i was saying was in response to the if we had player A or player B we could win the CL. Thats what Chelski tried to do this season and well it didn't work. My point being is no matter what players you have in a cup competition you can still lose to a crappy team like say liverpool when they destroy you with effort and go out.

leninbenjamin

shatners basoon wrote:

I'd agree but what i was saying was in response to the if we had player A or player B we could win the CL. Thats what Chelski tried to do this season and well it didn't work. My point being is no matter what players you have in a cup competition you can still lose to a crappy team like say liverpool when they destroy you with effort and go out.

shut up shatner, your obviously just rubbing it in

no but, i dunno, a player who's able to break up play could make a difference. part of the problem was United weren't able to dispossess Milan til they got to the defense, and then the defenders were under so much pressure that they just ended up hoofing the ball away. Milan had both Gattuso and Ambrosini to do this. granted more effort was needed all round the park, but united seriously lacked anyone in the position to just break up play. more effort from all wouldn't have gone much further into filling that gap between the midfield and the defense, united may have seen more on the ball but Milan would probably have been just as devastating on the break.

shatners basoon

Milan need time on the ball though and united gave them way too much of that. You can't expect one player filling in a makalele type role to do all the work can you? I'd agree that a player who's able to break up play could make a difference but every player can do that (though not all are good at it). The reason United weren't able to dispossess milan til they got to their defense is that the midfield didn't work at all, Carrick despite his defensive inadequacies should still be able to put in the effort rather than let fletcher do all the work. swaping fletcher with hargrieves is gonna make little difference if the rest of the team refuses to work!

leninbenjamin

yeah but no matter how hard you work, if you don't have a player who can plug the gaps between midfield and defense a team of Milan's quality will still be able to exploit you.

Milan don't need as much time on the ball as you think. Kaka will score a goal in two touches if the space is there.

PHB

You can't expect one player filling in a makalele type role to do all the work can you?

Nope, but he sets the tone. Keane Makelele and Gattuso are the type of players who do that.

We didn't match them, but we can match them. But missing that type of player, means the rest of the team are less likely to put in that sort of performance.

herbieflowers

The only thing pressing requires (like vs Roma) is stamina - Utd were running on empty, that team played about 10 games ina row, the squad just wasn't able to cope, the team were fatigued, it's not as if they purposely didn't want to press the ball - they couldn't. Milan made it impossible, they got in their faces and Utd couldn't handle it.

Of course Man U could have matched Milan but you have to match the effort first, no matter which players you have in your side. If you're any way half decent and you match the effort and work ethic you stand a chance. Look at Liverpool, a fairly average team (bar some exceptional players) who work so bloody hard. Even Greece winning the Euros a few seasons back or Porto - effort effort effort

It's not necessarily the holding midfield player who should initiate the effort as PHB has said. Traditionally that has been the case but it's more that hte characters in the side, the leaders...everyone in the team - defending from the front and all that. Rooney's that type of player - in your face etc, he barely had a kick v Milan, couldn'tget close to any of their players, none of them could.

Im_No_Superman

Well Saha is out of the cup final, the man really is unbelievably injury prone. http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=466118&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=&title=Saha+set+to+miss+cup+final&channel=&

Mitch Connor

Im_No_Superman wrote:

Well Saha is out of the cup final, the man really is unbelievably injury prone. http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?hlid=466118&CPID=8&clid=1&lid=&title=Saha+set+to+miss+cup+final&channel=&

hopefully we can get shot of him in the summer, i'm fed up with his injury breaks.
fingers crossed he's gone, and some one better is brought in.

PHB

I don't think it's that United don't have the stamina, we did it against Roma, it's just you need someone who can grab hold of the game and set the tone.