Advice on traffic offences

damonjewel

Hi All

First of all if this post is not suitable for this forum and should be in Legal then I apologize.

My problem is that my Brother in law was driving my car and he was stopped byy the Gardai. Now he is Ukrainian and speaks no English and I can only guess that the guards asked him questions about the car and he hadn't a clue what was going on. Unfortunately he did not tell me and a couple months later he got summons for no tax, no insurance, no licence and then failing to come to a Garda office within a certain timeframe and producing the said documentation.

No the car was fully taxed and the tax disc was on display
The car is fully insured and his name is on the insurance policy
The licence he has is Ukrainian and I have seen that it can only be used for a certain period and then he must apply for an Irish provisional, we didn't know ths at the time and hence he would have been driving illegally.

His court case comes up in Feb, should I get him a solicitor? Should I just contact the Guard on the summons and explain or is too late for that? Should I represent him in court as he speaks no english?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

damo

mikedragon32

Sounds very messy. I would advise engaging a solicitor.

You would certainly get a more informed opinion on the Legal forum.

Henry Ford III

Agreed. If his license was invalid the insurance may have been similarly invalid.

Get some help.

seamus

It's too late to contact the Garda, and even so the situation is complicated by his nationality and the status of his licence. Get a solicitor...

Fey!

The license thing sounds messy. Did the insurance company make any mention about his license when they took a copy of it?

Try to have a copy of the insurance cert on hand, and contact the insurance company to see if they can send you out a letter stating that he was a named driver on the car on the date of the offence. Similarly, contact your local motor tax office and see if they'll send you out a letter stating that the car was taxed on the date of the offence (I've found that the people who work in the motor tax offices tend to be very helpful).

As others have said, have a chat with a solicitor.

Good luck with it.

damonjewel

Hi All

Thanks for the positive replies so far.

I have all the documentation tax and insurance to prove that the car was fine for this period. My defence for his licence is basically ignorance as the insurance company were told that he had a foreign licence but not once did they say 'hang on we can't insure him'.

I thought by contacting the Guard beforehand and showing him all the documentation and trying to explain that my brother in law simply didn't understand that perhaps the Guard would say fair enough and drop the charges.

But it looks like the common consensus is to contact my Brief

Cheers

Fey!

Try contacting the Garda anyway - you could be lucky, or he may just tell you to contact the district office (this hapened me a few years ago when I got tickets for no tax or insurance displayed when the car was parked on the street, even though both were on the windscreen!).

Seeing as he already has a summons, try giving the clerk of the court a shout, too, and explain the situation to him.

WRT getting the tickets in the first place, my g/f was telling me the other day that she saw fake Irish insurance disks and tax disks for sale on a Polish website for about €30 each. If the Garda had encountered this before, it may explain why he wanted to see all the paperwork.

Was your bro-in-law stopped at a checkpoint, or for another offence (speeding, etc)?

damonjewel

It wouldn't surprise me if he was as they seem to have thrown the book at him (8 summons in all, licence,nct,tax,insurance and failure to produce licence,nct,tax,insurance) however he has not been charged for speeding or any other offence as mainly I suppose he can't get points applied to his Licence being foriegn and this is the way for the Garda to otherwise prosecute. But thats just supposing.

The other thing is that his name is completely misspelt on the summons, could this affect the case on a technicality?

Fey!

Something sounds iffy there. I know that a Polish friend of mine had his car taken off him by the Gardai recently because his insurance disk was 1 day out of date (he thought that the insurance went to end of month like it does in Poland, and not to the day). His tax and NCT were fine.

I believe, but I'm open to correction, that nowadays the Gardai normally seize cars that they believe have no insurance. They may also seize a car which has no tax displayed, or where the tax is out by over 3 months.

So why was the car not seized if he didn't have proof on the spot?

damonjewel

Well I am not too sure of the facts that happened on the day maybe if it was a slower day for the Garda the car would have been seized. difficult to say really.

Although the discs displayed were all in order and displayed on the car and maybe as you posted earlier the Guard just wanted the full documents brought to the station as confirmation

OldmanMondeo

damonjewel wrote:

Hi All
My defence for his licence is basically ignorance as the insurance company were told that he had a foreign licence but not once did they say 'hang on we can't insure him'.

That won't work. It is not up to the insurance company to tell you the legal requirements. They just take you money and run.

You mentioned in the OP that you can use your licence for a certain period of time and you then have to get an Irish Provo licence, How long is this period and would your brother be long over this period.

I wouldn't worry as long as it is your brother that has recieved the summons. He has gone home, try telling the court that he has gone home and will not be comming back, they might dismiss the case since everything else is in order. Worth looking into, but I could be wrong. (awaits someone to pounch and tell me off for giving incorrect information).

Gregor Samsa

OldmanMondeo wrote:

I wouldn't worry as long as it is your brother that has recieved the summons. He has gone home, try telling the court that he has gone home and will not be comming back, they might dismiss the case since everything else is in order. Worth looking into, but I could be wrong.

And set yourself up for a perjury conviction? Good advice :rolleyes:

Remember it's not the OP that got the summons, it's his Ukrainian brother in-law. Safe to assume he's married to the OP's sister and settled down here.

damonjewel

Hi All

Thanks again for all the responses. The time limit to change licence is 12 months I think he was almost a year over this. My Brother in law is resident here and has a work permit neither of us want to do anything that may lead him to be deported.

Will contact the Gardai see what they say and then probably get in touch with my solicitor after that.

Cheers

hargo

Don't waste your time and money making another solicitor richer. If what you say is true the only offences disclosed are failing to produce documents for which there is a good defence, he didn't understand the language. Produce all documents to the Garda before the court so the he can be satisfied that they are genuine and you should have no problem in court.

Why didn't he have his tax and insurance disc displayed and if he is in the country so long with family how come he has no English?

damonjewel

I visited the Gardai this morning and they said show up in court with all the correct documents and the charges will be struck off.

All discs were on display when he was stopped. As for my brother in law not learning english, well he is a lazy sack of sh1te

Thanks everyone

Fey!

Glad you seem to be sorted.

damonjewel wrote:

As for my brother in law not learning english, well he is a lazy sack of sh1te

No love lost, then? :rolleyes: