Live self-Builds - mod warning in post no. 1

brickee

Not sure if this is right place - anybody got advice on insuring your home is covered for the future and what they must install at the start of the build like cabling would love to have the sound and vision in majority of rooms and help and advice appreciated.

sydthebeat

brickee wrote: »

Hi all great thread lots of reading no posts sorry. We have the raft down and about 1500 blocks laid on our 300+ sqm dormer without the dormer windows.
I'm ex bricklayer so going to lay the blocks myself over the winter/spring months.
Not in much a panic as money is hard to come buy no mortgage got loan from credit union have spent 10,200 euro so far not including planning or council. Will hope to have the hollowcore and 2nd floor blocks built for 20,000. Then we have another 20,000 to get roof also windows quoted 11,200 for slates plus all timber not inc sky lights. I have allowed for 180mm cavity as I think this is the safest distance with 300mm wall ties to get a good enough bond with the leafs. Planning to install boiler stove to heat rads upstairs and downstairs. Would appreciate any advice that you might have to offer.

whats your target BER rating?
have you had a provisional BER assessment done yet to know what you need to do to:
(a) comply with minium building regulations
(b) to provide enough renewable energy as required?

BarneyMc

sas wrote: »

The items that were leaking (mostly the electrical sockets) aren't really fixable unless I start pulling them back out. I won't be doing that (most likely )

How was the air escaping through the electrical sockets if they sit on the inner side of your blockwork?

fclauson

BarneyMc wrote: »

How was the air escaping through the electrical sockets if they sit on the inner side of your blockwork?

Block work is not airtight - just visited a house with BP to day and each socket resess was being plastered to ensure airtightness

sas

fclauson wrote: »

Block work is not airtight - just visited a house with BP to day and each socket resess was being plastered to ensure airtightness

Exactly, block leaks like a sieve.

The electricians were supposed to have bedded mine in mortar too. They clearly did a better job in some places than others. They weren't all leaking.

sas

We obtained an n50 result of 0.32

The positive result was 0.32, negative was 0.314 giving the average of 0.32 when rounded.

The report states that if all of the remaining leaks were combined into a single hole, it would be 126cm2 or about 20% of an A4 sheet.

I was considering redoing the sockets, I'm not now.

The report highlights the biggest leaks identified on the day and most of them are with the windows and doors. So the supplier will have some adjustments to make.

We'll retest once we're closer to moving in.

Herself predicted 0.32 when I left the house yesterday morning. There'll be no living with her this weekend!

sydthebeat

sas wrote: »

We obtained an n50 result of 0.32

The positive result was 0.32, negative was 0.314 giving the average of 0.32 when rounded.

The report states that if all of the remaining leaks were combined into a single hole, it would be 126cm2 or about 20% oThatsf an A4 sheet.

I was considering redoing the sockets, I'm not now.

The report highlights the biggest leaks identified on the day and most of them are with the windows and doors. So the supplier will have some adjustments to make.

We'll retest once we're closer to moving in.

Herself predicted 0.32 when I left the house yesterday morning. There'll be no living with her this weekend!

Thats excellent sas! When you put the figures into perspective like that it just goes to show how well you have the house airtight.

Carlow52

BarneyMc wrote: »

How was the air escaping through the electrical sockets if they sit on the inner side of your blockwork?

The sockets and the cable runs there-to are both recessed into the wall and as noted by SAS they were supposed to be lined with mortar, some were and some weren't.
I wonder would it easier to put some a/t tape in the cable chase and socket recess prior to first fix elec.

For the record I want to thank SAS for the invite to the a/t test gig.

It was both enthralling and very educational to see the different tools used in the search for leaks: thermal imaging, leak detectors, hand held smoke generators and the smoke machine which clearly demo'ed the porosity of concrete block.

Hats off to SAS and his team

just do it

sas wrote: »

Herself predicted 0.32 when I left the house yesterday morning. There'll be no living with her this weekend!

I feel your pain:D;)

sas

Carlow52 wrote: »

I wonder would it easier to put some a/t tape in the cable chase and socket recess prior to first fix elec.

I thought about this but my conclusion was that you'd end up with issues when plastering i.e. plaster doesn't stick to a/t tape. There are the fleece types but they'd need to be glued into the hole\tracks which would prove tricky.

My approach if schedule wasn't an issue.

1. Electrician marks out for sockets.
2. Walls are chased for sockets and conduit, this needs to be about 10mm bigger in each direction.
3. Electrician goes away.
4. Plasterer plasters all the chases with bonding.
5. Bonding is left to set.
6. Holes\tracks are inspected for full coverage.
7. Electrician comes back and wires first fix.
8. Electrician goes away.
9. Plasterer builds up around the back boxes and conduit using more bonding to bring it flush with the block work surface.
10. Scratch coat is done.

This couldn't fail to work in my opinion but I couldn't take the time this needs.

Our schedule meant that this wasn't practical. That and the fact that everytime I walked into the house I decided I wanted more sockets etc...

fclauson

less porus blocks - think of stone and road and then search for Aristocrat - these blocks are quoted as

Block Type Results
• Aristocrat D1 100mm Solid on Edge - 1.33 M³ / h / M² @ 50 Pascal‘s
• Aristocrat F3 215mm Cavity Block 0.265 M³ / h / M² @ 50 Pascal‘s
• Aristocrat D1 215mm Solid Wall 0.78 M³ / h / M² @ 50 Pascal‘s
• Fine Textured 100mm Solid on Edge >10.0 M³ / h / M² @ 50 Pascal‘s
• Fine Textured 215mm Cavity Block >15.0 M³ / h / M² @ 50 Pascal‘s

the additional cost per SqM seems to be a couple of Euro - I believe are aimed at schools & gyms etc where the walls do not get rendered
any one had any experience of these - About to build and this might help on the socket leak issue

sas

I looked at these at one point. I have an inkling that they told me that they don't take plaster well I.e. they are designed to be used on their own.

I can't be sure of this though. It was a few years ago so price may have been more of an issue back then.

Less porous blocks though of course is the ideal solution.

Would you trust these blocks on their own to solve the issue. If not and you have to take any of the measures described previously as well, then I go with regular and save the few euro.

BryanF

sas wrote: »

Less porous blocks though of course is the ideal solution.

these more heavy weight so (less Quin-lite in their properties) I suppose you only really need a less porous course at socket level and switch level..

sas

BryanF wrote: »

these more heavy weight so (less Quin-lite in their properties) I suppose you only really need a less porous course at socket level and switch level..

Fair point, I personally don't like mixing and matching though. It's hard enough to keep inexperienced trades focused without adding more variables. I could be doing my guys a disservice though.

just do it

SAS
I thought EWI had the edge over cavity build on the airtightness front as I thought the airtightness layer is on the external surface of the brick work? I'm obviously wrong as if this was the case sealing the channels in the wall due to chasing wouldn't be an issue.
Essentially the same detailing is required for the two if the airtightness layer is on the internal surface.

sas

just do it wrote: »

SAS
I thought EWI had the edge over cavity build on the airtightness front as I thought the airtightness layer is on the external surface of the brick work? I'm obviously wrong as if this was the case sealing the channels in the wall due to chasing wouldn't be an issue.
Essentially the same detailing is required for the two if the airtightness layer is on the internal surface.

You'd have to plaster the outside of your block work before applying the EWI for this to be the case.

I actually looked into this. My EWI supplier then stated that if there weren't sticking straight to the fair faced block work, that they'd need to mechanically fix the EPS boards too. This meant more money as the plugs for 300mm EWI ain't cheap.

There was a debate on this at length here some time back.

An EWI system by itself is not airtight I was told.

just do it

sas wrote: »

You'd have to plaster the outside of your block work before applying the EWI for this to be the case.

I actually looked into this. My EWI supplier then stated that if there weren't sticking straight to the fair faced block work, that they'd need to mechanically fix the EPS boards too. This meant more money as the plugs for 300mm EWI ain't cheap.

There was a debate on this at length here some time back.

An EWI system by itself is not airtight I was told.

I'm sure I've read that thread but I must have a look for it again. Given this it is making me lean towards the wide cavity option (the decision is down to either wide cavity or EWI) as you've stated you'd probably go for if you were to do it all over again.

Your airtightness result just goes to show traditional style plastering (and of course a s*** load of attention to detail, taping etc) can get results! It's great for those of us still at the decision stage to follow what you've been doing and see the results - even though it has required a leap of faith and a lot of sweat for you being the guinea pig!:)

How're you feeling about it all now? (I just mean generally, not the detail about all the decisions you've made.) You've had your ups and downs!

sas

just do it wrote: »

I'm sure I've read that thread but I must have a look for it again. Given this it is making me lean towards the wide cavity option (the decision is down to either wide cavity or EWI) as you've stated you'd probably go for if you were to do it all over again.
!

The only concern I have with the wide cavity is the installation of windows. The common solution is the creation of a plywood box within the cavity. I simply wouldn't be happy with this. I can't believe this is a long term viable solution. The better option appears to be those proprietary cavity closers, I do fear these could be MAD money though. Someone else could likely comment on this.

just do it wrote: »

Your airtightness result just goes to show traditional style plastering (and of course a s*** load of attention to detail, taping etc) can get results! It's great for those of us still at the decision stage to follow what you've been doing and see the results - even though it has required a leap of faith and a lot of sweat for you being the guinea pig!:)

From an airtightness point of view the scratch coat is bullet proof if done correct. When I started out there were few people doing this type of thing. If nothing else I'm happy to serve as an example for others.

just do it wrote: »

How're you feeling about it all now? (I just mean generally, not the detail about all the decisions you've made.) You've had your ups and downs

At the moment I'm good with my project.

My position on PH is unlikely to change though unless my home is amazingly comfortable which remains to be seen. I just can't see the savings in it.

The budget (carbon taxes etc) could make it a little more viable though.

In life we all at some point see our "Everest", some choose to climb, others don't. Mine just happens to be a certified PH and I'm very pleased to have gotten to where I am now. I work in IT so construction is far removed from what I do daily.

I'm excited about the kit out now. I happened to get an opportunity to visit SoldSold's house last week and his kitchen, dinining living area is amazing. He also has the most impressive entrance I've seen in a domestic property. He should be massively proud of what he's achieved.

That really underlined for me that relatively soon my site will move away from the building site look and start to become our new home at long last.

Assuming the euro doesn't go bust in the next fortnight of course

Otherwise we're royally frigged!

fclauson

sas wrote: »

.... The better option appears to be those proprietary cavity closers, I do fear these could be MAD money though. Someone else could likely comment on this.
...

My self and BP are looking at an option - I will report back once I have confirmed out the detail - basically its a plastic cavity closure of 250mm which has a degree of structual support.

This issue its €30ish per liner metre - so prehaps once does not use it all the way around a window opening reverting to the €10 product for non structual bits

just do it

fclauson wrote: »

My self and BP are looking at an option - I will report back once I have confirmed out the detail - basically its a plastic cavity closure of 250mm which has a degree of structual support.

This issue its €30ish per liner metre - so prehaps once does not use it all the way around a window opening reverting to the €10 product for non structual bits

It will be interesting to see how it works out, make sure to report back!:D

just do it

sas wrote: »

At the moment I'm good with my project.

There was an architect on room to improve who quoted some research on people's satisfaction with their architect. At production of the design drawings it is sky high, during the build it drops very low and roughly a year after the project is finished it returns to a steady state of being good, but not as high at the first stage.

I imagine self-builds are like this. I've been follwing boards for 4 years now (changed user name a year ago as I got tired of the old one!) and am in no doubt that it will be a slog when we finally turn the sod next Spring. A bit like you it will be my Everest and it is going to take a few years.

However posters like you, soldsold, quazzie (just to mention a few) give the likes of me great comfort that I'm not a nutter for deciding to climb Everest:).

Wether I'll be paying for it in euros or punts still remains to be seen;)

brickee

sydthebeat wrote: »

whats your target BER rating?
have you had a provisional BER assessment done yet to know what you need to do to:
(a) comply with minium building regulations
(b) to provide enough renewable energy as required?

Hi SYDTHEBEAT

No BER assessment done just going on the type of houses that I built over the last 15 years and some friends that are still blocklaying. They are building still pretty much standard 100mm cavity some with 65mm kingspan some have the cavity filled. I did have a conversation with a BER assessor on what type of house he would build he recommended 150mm cavity, and dryline the outside walls have

I think with good standard of window fitted and sealed tight with tape plastered into reveal I have returned the blocks at window reveal so going to make sure it is as air tight as possible.

sydthebeat

brickee wrote: »

Hi SYDTHEBEAT

No BER assessment done just going on the type of houses that I built over the last 15 years and some friends that are still blocklaying. They are building still pretty much standard 100mm cavity some with 65mm kingspan some have the cavity filled. I did have a conversation with a BER assessor on what type of house he would build he recommended 150mm cavity, and dryline the outside walls have

I think with good standard of window fitted and sealed tight with tape plastered into reveal I have returned the blocks at window reveal so going to make sure it is as air tight as possible.

you need a provisional BER assessment done before you can start pricing up the job.
At the moment you simply do not know if what you plan to do complies with minimum regs or not.

on the blocklaying front, just because theyve been laying block for 15 years doesnt necessarily mean they are good blocklayers. there was many bad practises and bad habits employed in block building in the last 15 years

if you are drylining, the requirement to sand and cement render the walls before you dryline is an absolute must. Bare faced block is incredibly porous from an air tightness point of view.

IMO you need to get advice on each aspect of the build from a holistic point of view and not in isolation ie the choice of heating system will affect the floor construction, the choice of ventilation will affect the roof etc...

brickee

sas wrote: »

The only concern I have with the wide cavity is the installation of windows. The common solution is the creation of a plywood box within the cavity. I simply wouldn't be happy with this. I can't believe this is a long term viable solution. The better option appears to be those proprietary cavity closers, I do fear these could be MAD money though. Someone else could likely comment on this.


Hi SAS,

The way i will close the cavity and have in the past is to cut a piece of insulation to cover the cavity use a strip of dpc on both sides were insulation is touching the blockwork. I hope this helps a bit I'm open to constructive criticism.

Brickee

sas

brickee wrote: »

The way i will close the cavity and have in the past is to cut a piece of insulation to cover the cavity use a strip of dpc on both sides were insulation is touching the blockwork. I hope this helps a bit I'm open to constructive criticism.
Brickee

I was speaking in the context of a wide cavity (200mm +) with relation to supporting the weight of triple glazed windows.

What you've described above wouldn't work given it couldn't support the windows. We're not consider the use of a traditional concrete\stone cill due to the cold bridge it introduces.

brickee

sydthebeat wrote: »

you need a provisional BER assessment done before you can start pricing up the job.
At the moment you simply do not know if what you plan to do complies with minimum regs or not.

on the blocklaying front, just because theyve been laying block for 15 years doesnt necessarily mean they are good blocklayers. there was many bad practises and bad habits employed in block building in the last 15 years

sydthebeat

thanks for the quick response you are right on BER i will need a assessor so will get back when I have more information to post.

On the block laying front I myself have been block laying for 15 years and I have seen the bad practises mostly between 2004 -2008 when alot of so called bricklayers were building houses with no clue about regulations. I have worked from New York to London so have seen alot during these times and I do know the difference between good and bad practises, bad habits really came into it when the prices got so low that corners were been cut to try and make a days wage. That's one of the reasons I stopped in April 2010 because I felt I could not make a decent wage between weather and time between finishing work and starting new job, like today I should be laying blocks, inclement weather again thats Galway for you.

brickee

sas wrote: »

I was speaking in the context of a wide cavity (200mm +) with relation to supporting the weight of triple glazed windows.

What you've described above wouldn't work given it couldn't support the windows. We're not consider the use of a traditional concrete\stone cill due to the cold bridge it introduces.

Sorry missed that point this will only work with standard concrete/Granite cill that can support the window.

BryanF

Brickee have you heard of this I'd recommend a read - even if your not interested in achieving this certification, the standard of details etc is something that will be invaluable to you in your home building project.. from your couple of posts its seems like there is not anyone advising you on building regulations at the moment. i would recommend you consider a consultation with an architect before you go an further as the current regs have become quiet onerous even for someone in the trades.

brickee

Thanks for that BryanF plenty of info would like to meet somewhere along those lines without going overboard on price.

fclauson

brickee wrote: »

Thanks for that BryanF plenty of info would like to meet somewhere along those lines without going overboard on price.

Unfortunatly I am finding the Price vs meeting regs is weighted on the regs side (this pushing up the price)

To meet the current Part L means you have to spend money - sometimes more than you think is fare.

I have a challenge to meet regs I am going to have to go some Solar plus HP - as just one or the other will not do - or I have to go lots of Solar plus large thermal store - again which is epensive.

I am balancing to meet regs and not balancing to meet the heating demand of my property.

Remember you have to do you DEAP calcs to show Part L - and the more you insulate the harder it is. My build is currently using just 4% heat demand agains the referece build in DEAP - but unless I can convience my local building compliance officer that I meet part L but not as shown in DEAP then I have to spend money on delivering renewables I will probably not actually use - which defeats the whole object :mad: