WiMax In Dublin

dathi1

I see Irish Broadband launched their Go WiMax service in the Dublin Metropolitan area last Dec 18th. I think Wimax will be the future mobile in your car etc net access medium. No mention of it here? Anyone using it? Would be interested to hear any feedback.

optiplexgx270

link to wimax on their site?

dathi1

http://www.irishbroadband.ie/products_display.php?id=22

mayhem#

dathi1 wrote:

I see Irish Broadband launched their Go WiMax service in the Dublin Metropolitan area last Dec 18th. I think Wimax will be the future mobile in your car etc net access medium. No mention of it here? Anyone using it? Would be interested to hear any feedback.

You will be suprised on the inroads that WiFi has already made there.
Wimax might be the future of backhaul but you can count on WiFi being the "delivery" medium for a long time to come...

E.

IgsTer

that aint the real wimax product as far as i can see..well i hope anyway

wimax will offer about 12mbits up and down when it comes out through ibb not 512mb as that thing states..thats just like ripwave/breeze but made for mobility..

cant wait for the real thing when that comes out..anyone have any idea of when wimax will start being used by isps??

optiplexgx270

Yeah i thought the trials wernt going so well or so BB installer told me a while back (4 months+) and they had backed off untill they figure it out. That card does sound like ripwave via PCMIA and the coverage is patchy to say the least.

In the short term im looking forward to my voda 3g getting upgraded to 3.6Mb

flamegrill

thats a ripewave pcmcia modem is all. The cheeky whores launched it as a new product, fair play. Someone in their marketing dept has some hard neck.

It's rubbish, just like ripwave. stay away. That said, mileage may vary if you are near one of their high sites it might actually work.

Paul

cathald1

mayhem# wrote:

You will be suprised on the inroads that WiFi has already made there.
Wimax might be the future of backhaul but you can count on WiFi being the "delivery" medium forb a long time to come...

E.

Wimax will never replace traditional backhaul either proper licenced Uwave or fibre . It only ever can be an access technology same as wifi most broadband companies have already really messed up trying to replace traditional BH with BNB or some other bodge offering.

watty

WiMax was supposed originally to be unlicenced. But those bands are full and unusable for Wimax.

Fixed Wimax will likely on be licenced use and in 3.5 to 3.7GHz band. Just a Breeze upgrade.

Any mobile Wimax in Ireland will also have to be on a high band and licenced and thus unsuitable inside many buildings and cars without external aerials. They still do not have Mobile Base handover working properly.

At the end of the day WiMax will mostly be a way to make Intel money and offer little for customer or operator for fixed Wireless (you can buy cheaper Wireless on more bands today than WiMax may ever have, and some Wireless systems just as reliable and fast).

WiMax thus can't afterall replace WiFi as it will only be on licenced bands and operators will offer other non-Intel technologies.

There are at least FOUR working truely Mobile Wireless solutions today that are licenced on better frequencies than "Nearly Mobile WiMax".

IBB doesn't have WiMax. It is pre-Wimax which can mean what ever you want it to mean.

They will have some difficulty (as everyone has with RF modems) doing a smaller PC Express card instead of the large PCMCIA format PC-card for Ripwave.

WiMax does not do anything in speed or distance that can't be bought today. BTW, physics dictates you can't have high speed AND distance AND lots of users.

Every time you double distance you need slightly more than 4 times power, then rapid loss at "radio horizon" (Max 30km @ 10GHz and 100km @ 100MHz) or run at about 1/6th speed.

Every time you double number of users you more than 1/2 the speed, or need twice the spectrum.

Every time you double the speed you need double the spectrum.

Spectrum is a very fixed supply resource.

Power is seriously limited by needing to avoid interference, burning folks skin and avoiding a battery that needs wheels.

IBB_Tech

watty wrote:

WiMax was supposed originally to be unlicenced. But those bands are full and unusable for Wimax.

Fixed Wimax will likely on be licenced use and in 3.5 to 3.7GHz band. Just a Breeze upgrade.

Any mobile Wimax in Ireland will also have to be on a high band and licenced and thus unsuitable inside many buildings and cars without external aerials. They still do not have Mobile Base handover working properly.

At the end of the day WiMax will mostly be a way to make Intel money and offer little for customer or operator for fixed Wireless (you can buy cheaper Wireless on more bands today than WiMax may ever have, and some Wireless systems just as reliable and fast).

WiMax thus can't afterall replace WiFi as it will only be on licenced bands and operators will offer other non-Intel technologies.

There are at least FOUR working truely Mobile Wireless solutions today that are licenced on better frequencies than "Nearly Mobile WiMax".

IBB doesn't have WiMax. It is pre-Wimax which can mean what ever you want it to mean.

They will have some difficulty (as everyone has with RF modems) doing a smaller PC Express card instead of the large PCMCIA format PC-card for Ripwave.

WiMax does not do anything in speed or distance that can't be bought today. BTW, physics dictates you can't have high speed AND distance AND lots of users.

Every time you double distance you need slightly more than 4 times power, then rapid loss at "radio horizon" (Max 30km @ 10GHz and 100km @ 100MHz) or run at about 1/6th speed.

Every time you double number of users you more than 1/2 the speed, or need twice the spectrum.

Every time you double the speed you need double the spectrum.

Spectrum is a very fixed supply resource.

Power is seriously limited by needing to avoid interference, burning folks skin and avoiding a battery that needs wheels.

Name a wireless system that offers just as much bandwidth over the distances WImax provides?

You cannot compare Wimax to Wifi, Wifi is a short distance technology with high bandwidth, you can get at least 10Km+ out of a Breeze connection with speeds upto 6Mb with wifi its around 54Mbps+ over 100Meters
Wimax is a much more secure and advanced technology


Breeze and Ripwave are Wimax Wimax technologys, Ripwaves can operate at 2Mb Version, we limited them to 512K as we had problem with heat dissapation. Breeze antennas can go to 6mb, there are other Wimax products that can offer Higher speeds out there, the Highsites themselves which are Wimax antennas can operate at higher speeds and handle multiple connections.

Ripwaves product is mobile breeze is not.

watty

IBB_Tech wrote:

Name a wireless system that offers just as much bandwidth over the distances WImax provides?

You cannot compare Wimax to Wifi, Wifi is a short distance technology with high bandwidth, you can get at least 10Km+ out of a Breeze connection with speeds upto 6Mb with wifi its around 54Mbps+ over 100Meters
Wimax is a much more secure and advanced technology

HSDPA, HSUPA, EVDO, Flash-OFDM, IPW, 3G, iBurst, "ZTE version of IPW" all exist mobile, There is no mobile Wimax yet. Canopy might even be mobile. Canopy will do 80km, but speed is terrible. At least 4 of them perform just as well as WiMax for distance/bandwidth/Speed, some better due to availability at lower frequency.

Fixed WiMax will not out perform Breeze on distance but will outperform it on Spectrum MHz per Kbps. But so does Digiweb Metro, which does nearly twice distance of current Fixed WiMax.

IBB_Tech wrote:

Breeze and Ripwave are Wimax Wimax technologys, Ripwaves can operate at 2Mb Version, we limited them to 512K as we had problem with heat dissapation. Breeze antennas can go to 6mb, there are other Wimax products that can offer Higher speeds out there, the Highsites themselves which are Wimax antennas can operate at higher speeds and handle multiple connections.

Ripwaves product is mobile breeze is not.

There are only TWO Wimax products. Fixed (802.16d) and Mobile (802.16e). You can buy the fixed and the mobile is not releasedas it does still not hand over properly between bases.

Breeze & Ripwave are different technology on different bands. Fixed WiMax is same band as some Breeze product can be.

Neither Breeze nor Ripwave nor anything else that isn't actually real "IEEE Std 802.16-2004 (802.16d)" (addresses only fixed systems), is not WiMax.
Neither Breeze nor Ripwave is close to WiMax. They are "pre-WiMax" in sense that wild grass is pre-Wheat, pre-Barley, pre-Rice etc.

Flash-OFDM is Mobile Wimax like, except Slovakia has 30,000 users and Mobile WiMax has zero users as they do not yet agree on how to handoff between base stations.

Fixed WiMax exists, is in use but more expensive and only advantage over older 3.5GHz products. Disadvantage is that it is mostly only available for 2.5GHz & 3.5GHz, If your licence is for a different band, you need a different product.

Mobile WiMax is a different standard and no-one has it. You can't buy it. Again, even when it does exist, it will only be on one or two bands.

WiFi is for unlicenced bands. It can do 8km on external aerials. It can do urban Mesh. But no-one sensible is suggesting it is a real mobile data solution. It is best for indoor hotspot.

Even when Mobile WiFi does appear, its 3.5GHz band will make it poor for indoor mobile use. The HSDPA etc at much lower frequencies (850MHz to 2.1GHz depending on Country, see Quad Band ) works better indoors. In Ireland /UK GPRS on 900MHz works even better mobile, but slow.

Flash-OFDM is available on 450MHz, 870MHz or 2.1GHz depending on Country. The 450MHz (Finland, Germany, Slovakia) and 870 (Ireland, Norway, possibly UK) are hugely better for coverage than 3.5GHz.

3.5GHz is fine for outdoor aerial fixed links like Breeze. Not good ever for mobile Internet.

IgsTer

nice stuff lads

so are we going to see an appearence of wimax soon in dublin..

elvis2002

IBB_Tech wrote:

Breeze and Ripwave are Wimax Wimax technologys

ha, rofl

watty

eircom has some very old 3.5Ghz Wireless that is basically only a wireless replacement for analogue/ISDN phone. They will be trialling (fixed) WiMax replacements on those masts, but only for people that apply for ADSL on enabled exchange and fail line test.

I know of no other Fixed WiMax rollout, nor of ANY mobile Wimax rollout (because you can't even buy it yet).

However there are comparable Mobile technologies to Mobile Wimax that actually exist getting rolled out (in Dublin and other places) by maybe four operators this year.

mayhem#

watty wrote:

HSDPA, HSUPA, EVDO, Flash-OFDM, IPW, 3G, iBurst, "ZTE version of IPW" all exist mobile, There is no mobile Wimax yet. Canopy might even be mobile. Canopy will do 80km, but speed is terrible. At least 4 of them perform just as well as WiMax for distance/bandwidth/Speed, some better due to availability at lower frequency.

Fixed WiMax will not out perform Breeze on distance but will outperform it on Spectrum MHz per Kbps. But so does Digiweb Metro, which does nearly twice distance of current Fixed WiMax.



There are only TWO Wimax products. Fixed (802.16d) and Mobile (802.16e). You can buy the fixed and the mobile is not releasedas it does still not hand over properly between bases.

Breeze & Ripwave are different technology on different bands. Fixed WiMax is same band as some Breeze product can be.

Neither Breeze nor Ripwave nor anything else that isn't actually real "IEEE Std 802.16-2004 (802.16d)" (addresses only fixed systems), is not WiMax.
Neither Breeze nor Ripwave is close to WiMax. They are "pre-WiMax" in sense that wild grass is pre-Wheat, pre-Barley, pre-Rice etc.

Flash-OFDM is Mobile Wimax like, except Slovakia has 30,000 users and Mobile WiMax has zero users as they do not yet agree on how to handoff between base stations.

Fixed WiMax exists, is in use but more expensive and only advantage over older 3.5GHz products. Disadvantage is that it is mostly only available for 2.5GHz & 3.5GHz, If your licence is for a different band, you need a different product.

Mobile WiMax is a different standard and no-one has it. You can't buy it. Again, even when it does exist, it will only be on one or two bands.

WiFi is for unlicenced bands. It can do 8km on external aerials. It can do urban Mesh. But no-one sensible is suggesting it is a real mobile data solution. It is best for indoor hotspot.

Even when Mobile WiFi does appear, its 3.5GHz band will make it poor for indoor mobile use. The HSDPA etc at much lower frequencies (850MHz to 2.1GHz depending on Country, see Quad Band ) works better indoors. In Ireland /UK GPRS on 900MHz works even better mobile, but slow.

Flash-OFDM is available on 450MHz, 870MHz or 2.1GHz depending on Country. The 450MHz (Finland, Germany, Slovakia) and 870 (Ireland, Norway, possibly UK) are hugely better for coverage than 3.5GHz.

3.5GHz is fine for outdoor aerial fixed links like Breeze. Not good ever for mobile Internet.

Most spot-on post in this thread so far...

E.