Will there ever be a Bobby Sands Street in the country?

brianthebard

csk wrote:

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Funny that's not what I got from reading the post.

If the point was not to deny anything, is the point just to be disingenuous?

Hardly. I'm trying to find out accurate information. EgB is suggesting that hungerstrikes are a particularly Irish form of protest, dating back to "ancient Ireland". Since it is nearly impossible to find accurate information about Ireland pre 6-700AD I would very much like to know what this is based on. Right now my interest is not in whether or not the protest was a powerful one or not, which I believe I have outlined several times that I disagree with. I didn't feel the need to constantly state this.

csk

brianthebard wrote:

Hardly. I'm trying to find out accurate information. EgB is suggesting that hungerstrikes are a particularly Irish form of protest, dating back to "ancient Ireland". Since it is nearly impossible to find accurate information about Ireland pre 6-700AD I would very much like to know what this is based on. Right now my interest is not in whether or not the protest was a powerful one or not, which I believe I have outlined several times that I disagree with. I didn't feel the need to constantly state this.

So it was just being disingenuous.:rolleyes:

I won't claim to speak for Erin Go Brath but I don't think he/she ever said it was "uniquely Irish" as you decided to claim and since Erin was referencing what I said maybe it's with that that you have a problem?

You dispute that the idea of the hungerstrike goes back to pre-christian Ireland?

Here's the wiki page on Hungerstrikes.

Here's another interesting page describing it's roots in pre-christian Ireland and it's similarity to Hindu customs.

europerson

There is currently much debate at Trim Town Council in County Meath about what to name a new street. A local historian has suggested "Ian Paisley Street", as a sign of changed times in Ireland. There's already an Emmet Street in Trim town. A Fianna Fáil town councillor (formerly of Sinn Féin) suggested "Bobby Sands Street" in response. The meeting was adjourned without decision, as far as I know.

Mick86

I wouldn't be in favour of an Ian Paisley Street either.

How about a Roy Keane Street? He is patriotic without murdering anyone.

walrusgumble

anyone here that the film council have given the go ahead for some director to direct a film about the last 6 weeks of booby sands. its to be called "hunger". there was a little article bout it in the supplement from fridays irish times - the ticket

Shutuplaura

"They still have military type automatic pistols and sub-machine guns. John Cramer was arrested in Clonmel bus station a few years ago in possession of a 9mm auto, a silencer and 100 rounds of ammo."

One occasion, way back in 2004. And he was from Limerick wasn't he? The last few murders were with a knife, cement block and a shotgun as far as I remember. There is noone up in the glen or Botherduff packing military grade weaponary. I don't doubt that if they wanted a pistol badly enough they could get one but still, its disengenious to suggest that the shams of Clonmel are going around as well armed as the provos.

"Thats not name calling. It's merely commenting on the fact that you ducked the terrorism question."

Of course I ducked the issue. On a different thread you talked about people loosing their heads and getting all emotional when it comes to Irish history. Thats what you're doing now. Looking back on the troubles I'd personally say that quite a few republicans were motivated by the desire for a fairer society. For one, the upsurge in provo recruiting after bloody sunday shows this. Not wanting to be drawn into an argument on yet another side issue i side stepped it, sure. You got all pissy about it though.

Erin Go Brath

brianthebard wrote:

Are you referring to satire?? Ancient Irish tradition-you mean pre 500ad?
The use of hunger strikes is not just an Irish phenomenon its been used by
several people for political motives. Bobby Sands et al are not unique in this.

brianthebard wrote:

EgB is suggesting that hungerstrikes are a particularly Irish form of protest, dating back to "ancient Ireland".

It is a form of protest that has been used in Ireland for many years, not that people in other countries havent used this as a form of protest either. I never suggested it was "uniquely Irish", nor was it implied. CSK's link to "the toscad" or ritual fasting shows its existence in ancient times.

Voipjunkie

Mick86 wrote:

I wouldn't be in favour of an Ian Paisley Street either.

How about a Roy Keane Street? He is patriotic without murdering anyone.

I think Ian Paisley would be less divisive:D

Erin Go Brath

walrusgumble wrote:

anyone here that the film council have given the go ahead for some director to direct a film about the last 6 weeks of booby sands. its to be called "hunger". there was a little article bout it in the supplement from fridays irish times - the ticket

I didn't know that! Channel 4 are making the film it seems. Found a couple of links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_Ireland/Story/0,,1791408,00.html

http://www.pr-inside.com/fassbender-to-star-as-bobby-sands-r68883.htm

CrazyPJ

They do in Tehran and they supported our right to self determination too. If Ireland had any moral courage left it would do too and show support for Iran for the continuing subversion perpetrated on the world stage of our nearest neighbour.

PJ

Mick86

Shutuplaura wrote:

One occasion, way back in 2004. And he was from Limerick wasn't he?

He is from Limerick but has been infesting Clonmel for several years now. On his last visit home he was shot 14 times with a sub machine gun. Thats thes econd time he has survived a murder attempt. only teh good die young.

Shutuplaura wrote:

its disengenious to suggest that the shams of Clonmel are going around as well armed as the provos.

We are assured that the Provos have no arms whatsoever so the lads from the Wildies should be better armed than the IRA at this stage.

Shutuplaura wrote:

Of course I ducked the issue. On a different thread you talked about people loosing their heads and getting all emotional when it comes to Irish history. Thats what you're doing now.

Emotional incontinence is not one of my faults.

Shutuplaura wrote:

I'd personally say that quite a few republicans were motivated by the desire for a fairer society.

Of course they were. Murdering women and children is the one sure road to a fiarer society.

Shutuplaura wrote:

Not wanting to be drawn into an argument on yet another side issue i side stepped it, sure. You got all pissy about it though.

I've no time for provos or their ilk.

CrazyPJ wrote:

They do in Tehran and they supported our right to self determination too. If Ireland had any moral courage left it would do too and show support for Iran for the continuing subversion perpetrated on the world stage of our nearest neighbour.

PJ

That would be so funny if you did not so obviously mean it.

CrazyPJ

Mick86 wrote:

That would be so funny if you did not so obviously mean it.

no, that was sarcasm mate. Summin you wouldnt understand obviously.

PJ

Mick86

CrazyPJ wrote:

no, that was sarcasm mate. Summin you wouldnt understand obviously.

PJ

You can't do sarcasm on the internet. It's a verbal thing.

Shutuplaura

Mick86 wrote:

You must be joking on both points here. The local hoodlums in Limerick, Dublin and even in Clonmel have military type firearms. How difficult do you think it would be for the IRA to rearm. There's also the possibility that they haven't actually decommissioned all their weapons.

Mick86 wrote:

I've no time for provos or their ilk.

Shotguns and knives classed as military grade weapons. So scared of the IRA they can't admit they have disarmed. Is that what the Irish army has come to?

Zambia

Shutuplaura wrote:

Shotguns and knives classed as military grade weapons. So scared of the IRA they can't admit they have disarmed. Is that what the Irish army has come to?

I have lost what your trying to say here?

I am sure there are far better examples of Irish/Non Irish Personallities than Bobby Sands to name streets after.

Prior to his death Bobby Sands was a terrorists that adocavated the killing of innocents/his percieved foes.

Mick86

Shutuplaura wrote:

Shotguns and knives classed as military grade weapons. So scared of the IRA they can't admit they have disarmed. Is that what the Irish army has come to?

Who classed shotguns and knives as military grade weapons? What's the Irish army got to do with the discussion? And what proof has anyone that the IRA has disarmed?

mountainyman

vesp wrote:

I can assure you the majority of people in Northern Ireland had no sympathy or support for either the Provisional IRA or the hungerstrikers, the majority of whom were in the IRA. Those hungerstrikers which were not in the PIRA were in another terrorist organisation called the INLA, which like the PIRA was also widely condemned around the world. Really csk, you should pay more attention.

But that majority has no right of abode on the island of Ireland.

One settler one bullet.

MM

mountainyman

Mick86 wrote:

I wouldn't be in favour of an Ian Paisley Street either.

How about a Roy Keane Street? He is patriotic without murdering anyone.

wasn't Sands convicted for killing (not murdering) an RUC man?
Mick 86 I supposed you would have been a good little Petainist in Vichy France.

We need an Endloesung to the Unionist problem.

MM

csk

mountainyman wrote:

wasn't Sands convicted for killing (not murdering) an RUC man?

Wasn't he actually convicted for possession of firearms?

At least that's what wiki says.

O'Leprosy

There's also a GAA hurling club in Derry named after Kevin Lynch as well as a GAA pitch. I think there may be an estate in some town in Monaghan named after Kieran Doherty, who elected TD for Cavan Monaghan in 1981.

Mick86

mountainyman wrote:

wasn't Sands convicted for killing (not murdering) an RUC man?
Mick 86 I supposed you would have been a good little Petainist in Vichy France.

We need an Endloesung to the Unionist problem.

MM

I thought he was just done for possession of a weapon.

So if I'm a collaborator with the Nazis what does that make someone who prpoposes a final solution to the Unionist "problem" along the lines of an Endloesung.

O'Leprosy

Mick86 wrote:

So if I'm a collaborator with the Nazis what does that make someone who prpoposes a final solution to the Unionist "problem" along the lines of an Endloesung.

Cromwell was the first to use the term "the final solution", almost 300 years before Hitler. no prizes for guessing who he was going to apply it to. Another great first for britain. They also were the first to use concentration camps during the Boer War when 27,000 Boers died of starvation, disease and exposure. Indeed the wives and children of men who were still fighting were given smaller rations than others. Sick bastaards. And then these are the people who are always going on about their " unique sense of far play". Unique all right, sickly unique.

csk

O'Leprosy wrote:

Cromwell was the first to use the term "the final solution", almost 300 years before Hitler. no prizes for guessing who he was going to apply it to.

The monarchy?

Another great first for britain. They also were the first to use concentration camps during the Boer War when 27,000 Boers died of starvation, disease and exposure.

In fairness the camps of the boer war were a far cry from the concentration camps used during WWII...

O'Leprosy

csk wrote:

In fairness the camps of the boer war were a far cry from the concentration camps used during WWII...

Not for 27,000 Boer people.

csk

O'Leprosy wrote:

Not for 27,000 Boer people.

That's true enough.

Fratton Fred

mountainyman wrote:

But that majority has no right of abode on the island of Ireland.
One settler one bullet.

MM

why?

Fratton Fred

O'Leprosy wrote:

Cromwell was the first to use the term "the final solution", almost 300 years before Hitler. no prizes for guessing who he was going to apply it to. Another great first for britain. They also were the first to use concentration camps during the Boer War when 27,000 Boers died of starvation, disease and exposure. Indeed the wives and children of men who were still fighting were given smaller rations than others. Sick bastaards. And then these are the people who are always going on about their " unique sense of far play". Unique all right, sickly unique.

Sorry, is that relevant to this topic or are you just pointing out your anti British views? isn't there a specialist bigot's r us website for that sort of thing?

csk

Fratton Fred wrote:

why?

I would ignore that. It makes no sense unless mountainyman is in some kind of minority of one on the issue, which seems to be the case.

csk

Fratton Fred wrote:

Sorry, is that relevant to this topic or are you just pointing out your anti British views? isn't there a specialist bigot's r us website for that sort of thing?

The T word comes to mind

O'Leprosy

Fratton Fred wrote:

Sorry, is that relevant to this topic or are you just pointing out your anti British views? isn't there a specialist bigot's r us website for that sort of thing?

Completly relevant, just pointing out how churchill epitomised the values of the british establishment -the british establishment, the most currupt group of people in human history.