The Rambo look for target shooting!

Clare gunner

coffeepot wrote:

Well Clare Gunner I am new to this boards thing so I dont know how to show quotes properly sorry. Just to take each of your points:

OK, just left click your mouse,drag it over the lines you want to quote.It should turn blue. Click on the symbol in the above toolbar that looks like a speaking bubble,and it should replicatewith quote at the beginning and at the end.

1 Yes it is cheap and durable, so is much of outdoor clothing. Hillwalkers seem to be exposed to the elements and they use fleeces alot. They are warm, cheap durable etc. are many other forms of outdoor clothing. Combat clothing is not the only type that is cheap and durable.

Where do you shop for that?Most stuff I have seen is hideously expensive for real quality stuff,buy cheap,and freeze.

2 I am not talking about hunting! I am talking about target shooting on a range. Green is a great colour, no argument there! I have no problem with wearing green on a range. I am referring to people in full millitary clothing shooting on a target range. Here is the opening line to my thread "I think that all military type clothing should be banned in target shooting clubs". I have no problem with green. I have no problem with this kind of clothing being used for hunting.

3 I am not suggesting that Dayglo is worn. I just mean normal outdoor clothing! Less noisey is not an issue when you are on the range! Walk in a park on on a beach some day or go up the mountains, many people have found it possible to dress in a practical way without spending a small fortune and without looking like they are in a combat zone!

well, I guess you haven't seen the latestest rave/techno fashion then????Cammo! Flairs,tank tops,etc.As a hunter ,I dont need to be climbing up the north face of the Eiger so bright colors are useless to me.

4

Dont know what to say to this except hillwalkers now have GPS I like my 1940's wedding jacket. I have great pockets in it for extra mags!

Wonder how many know how to use them properly,and they would be better off learning how to use a compass,and investing in a survival blanket and some basic survival skills than hundreds in day glo kit.

5 I take your point, however I do know sevral individuals who wear what could definitley be described as a uniform! In Germany hunting is much more popular. I dont think that shooting as a sport is under threat in Germany like it is here.

Actually it is considerd a minority sport,for the elite.Once you have seen the German hubnting test and the annual work involved,plus the money involved,you will see why.Most shooting sports are more so under threat there than in Ireland.Just that they are better organised and not prone to looking down their noses at each other,most of the time.But hunters are the top dogs in the shooting chain there.And no one is worried about the local schutzenverein[local gunclub] showing up all in green in a old style military cut,or responding to military commands.Imagine what they would say about that here.
6 I am not judging books by thier covers. I am concerned that others do.

I am just concerned that if some shooters are childish enough to dress up to play soilders that this can panic voters! There is an election very soon! I want to keep the items that I have. The perception people have of our sport is very important. Ok DVS is right I am blowing off a bit of steam. If I did not think our sport was under threat I would not care what people wore. I might think in some cases that it is a bit sad that a grown man would dress up like that just to shoot paper, but I would not really care![/QUOTE

Well, if that only what the Irish voters have to worry about,then we sincerely have little to bother us. Considering I watched a recently banned paramilitary/terrorist group parade in military attire[black berets,mil style shirt,black cargo pants,black sunglasses,sam browne belts with cross piece,black combat boots],responding to military commands, commerating one of their fallen in Limerick last Sunday.ALL in contravention to offences against the state act 1939.
I would be more worried about THOSE types than some lads wearing cammo on an approved range.As the last lot have got illegal arms and cammo gear as well,and the majority of voters would be worried about them,if our present lot would extract thumbs from posteriors.
As I said before,perception is relative.If you are nerveous around guns,it doesnt matter what the shooter is dressed like.If somone loses it,it wont matter what he/she is dressed like.It will be over run by the word ,GUN.

mcguiver

I know we've discussed this before, and I'm sure we will again!
I think combat type gear on a range does give the wrong impression to others about our sport. A sport which stays under the radar most of the time and doesn't attract too much bad publicity.

I've plenty of camo gear which is great when I'm out on the hills etc., but I'd never wear it to a shooting range.

Hezz700

Another example of "The great divide" in Irish shooting here on boards.
Everyone shaking there fists at one another and passing Judgments on others solely on their apperance. "Grrrrr i'm right and your wrong:mad:" Lets leave that Sh#@~ to the Anti's.

Personally i don't give a damb what someone wears. I tend to base my opinions of a person on their character. and when it come to shooting, on their handling of firearms wherever that may be. If someone acts the twat i'm all up for admisistering them a good clatter on the ear.

Kryten

We shooters here all know that it dosent matter what you wear. But that is not the real issue. It is what Mr Joe Public and Mr Politician think. They being uneducated in such matters, may think that guys dressed up like paramilitaries on a shooting range with real guns are up to no good.

Suitable range Clothing? ISSF Style speaks for itself as Sparks has posted enough photos of it. Practical Shooting, generally street clothes as anything you need to hand is on your belt. I have even shot with my work suit on with no problems regarding suitability.
Just an aside.....
I went shooting once in Arizona with an american guy. Nice selection of guns I must say. We went in, put on the glasses and ear defenders, opened the gun bags, prepared the firing point, layed out the guns and ammo. Then to my utter dissappointment, this guy proceded to put on webbing. F***in hell I thought. I was never on a civilian range before this (in 1998) and thought wrongly, I might add, that I had stumbled upon Michigan Militia types.

Anyway, Our club does not allow Military clothing to be worn as we do not want to give the wrong impression about our sport.

Double Barrel

May I be so bold as to suggest The Uniform of The Day ... :

Clare gunner

Apart from the jeans .Jolly good show old boy!!!:D

mcguiver

Excellent uniform,
spiffingly good.

Here's an experiment, next time any of us are due to pay a visit to the firearms officer or meet with the local super, lets dress as we do on the range:D

Clare gunner

But I always meet mine in a cammo jacket,jeans and jungle boots or a combo on that.Never has botherd him or his predecessor.Guess the Gardai in my part of the world know me and dont judge by apperances.Might be different if I showed up in "wigga" kit.

coffeepot

Its a pity the garda in your part of the world dont write the laws isnt it? You will find that they are implement the law even if they dont approve. That is not to say that your FO didn't think you looked great dressed up like you are part of some sort of militia!

You will find that many shooting clubs and orginisations have banned dressing up in military clothing to shoot on ranges. Why do you think that is?

Please note:
1) Green and "realtree" clothing is not necessarily milatery clothing.
2) Hunting is very different from shooting on a range!

Sparks

Clare gunner wrote:

But I always meet mine in a cammo jacket,jeans and jungle boots or a combo on that.Never has botherd him or his predecessor.

No offence CG, but how long did it take you to get your pistol licence again?

mcguiver

I have to say, all joking aside, I do worry when I arrive on a range and see people dressed in military gear. (I remember watchin one dude complete with water canteen etc. on his belt)

A lot of ranges I've been on discourage it, and I can understand why Joe Public would have a mental image of what "gun enthusiasts" look/act like.

Clare gunner

Sparks wrote:

No offence CG, but how long did it take you to get your pistol licence again?

2 years Sparks,but the trouble with your point is;I never met my Superintendant in person.So he couldnt judge me by looks.:D

So tell me this folks;What happens when we start showing up wearing kit from 5-11 tactical on the practical shooting ranges????What the well dressed private military contractor or bodygaurd worldwide and UC cop wears???It is now becoming a "uniform" plain clothes dress,that any reporter who has done some time in "the sandbox "or any military hotspot,or is paying attention to their job will recognise instantly one day on a Irish range???

Bet the line will run,"wanna be Rambos dressed in what the gung ho US mercs in Iraq wear on their covert killer missions are now being sported by Irish shooters."

Get this point;it will matter diddley squat what we wear,if they want to rag us they will find somthing to pick on.

And to compare us to some sort of US milita camp is mad,because someone is wearing a cammo pair of pants.Has anyone EVER been to one??[I have] and them wearing cammo would be the least of the reporters worries.They would see more mil dress ,etc at a SF/IRA commeration parade.

UFO

I Like to start the morning off with 100 clays using my semiauto 12g,black of course with extended mag. For this I like to wear green wellies,green moleskin trousers and a nice warm camo jacket with hood. After this its over to the target range with my single shot bolt action rifle for some paper shooting. So I strip down to change into my gear which consists of a pair of silly square toed shoes, yellow leather trousers, a tight leather shooting jacket in Blue and Pink. This has badges of all the places I have shot in such as Bisley,Fermoy,Butlins,EuroDisney,Bray amusements and Limerick city centre. After putting 10 rds into the same hole its on to the Sillouhete range.For this I use my 10/22 with folding stock and 30 rnd mag.Strip again and change into my red 22eye DockMartins,brown leatherhossen, blue blazer and one of those Australian hats Mel Gibson wore in Gallopilli.After this its onto the Pistol range. Strip. At this stage some of the female members are in a tizzy and sending rounds hither and thither. So out comes my single action .22 Ruger. I usually shoot this wearing runners,blue jeans,string vest and a cowboy hat with a pair of Bono wrap around glasses and Princess Leia type ear protectors for safety.To finish the day I take out my 9mm semi auto pistol ( I wont say what make and type it is as someone may recognise me ) to do some 20 yrd paper.So its another strip to change. I feel most comfortable shooting this discipline wearing black knee length suede zipped stilletto boots....!
Fortunetly the Gardai in their wisdom deemed me to be a suitable person to hold FACs for these guns but I have to say there are some people in my club who think I may be a bit peculiar.

DonJose

Rambo types with BB guns = a$$holes.

Just came back from the States. My uncle is big into the shooting scene and brought me to a range to do some clay shooting. I didn't see one camo jacket and these shooters were experienced guys, with both shotguns and handguns. The echo of a .357 is something else. They would laugh their a$$es off at the stupid Micks with their face paint and .22's.

the_syco

If "Joe Public" see's someone in camo, he'll either think they're miliitary, or students.

If "Joe Public" see's someone with a gun, he'll see someone with a gun.

If you're wearing black, you're a goth carrying a gun.

If you wear tracksuits, you're a scumbag (possibly from Blanchardstown of Limerick) with a gun.

If you're wearing a suit, you're a yuppie with a gun.

If your wearing camo, you're a gun nut.

If you're wearing a football jersey, you may be the enemy.

If you're dressed up in "clay shooting gear", you're a rich D4 prat.

No matter how you dress, you'll be put into a catagory.

DonJose wrote:

Rambo types with BB guns = a$$holes.

Just came back from the States. My uncle is big into the shooting scene and brought me to a range to do some clay shooting. I didn't see one camo jacket and these shooters were experienced guys, with both shotguns and handguns. The echo of a .357 is something else. They would laugh their a$$es off at the stupid Micks with their face paint and .22's.

In the states, you have your Militia's. Usually perfectly legal, and usually they dress in camo. Some are ex-military/reserve, some are civilians.

DonJose

the_syco wrote:

In the states, you have your Militia's. Usually perfectly legal, and usually they dress in camo. Some are ex-military/reserve, some are civilians.

I know that, but I went to an average joe shooting range and didn't see any camo. A paddy dressed as rambo carrying a .22 looks fecking stupid. One the other hand if any of you guys have one of these, see photo, you're allowed to wear camo underpants

http://www.fcsa.co.uk/images/radnor/nemesis-1.JPG

.243

DonJose wrote:

I know that, but I went to an average joe shooting range and didn't see any camo. A paddy dressed as rambo carrying a .22 looks fecking stupid. One the other hand if any of you guys have one of these, see photo, you're allowed to wear camo underpants

http://www.fcsa.co.uk/images/radnor/nemesis-1.JPG

thats an FN hersntal usa made .50 cal sniper rifle and from the look of the back ground it looks like either diggle's range or radnor range in england

cushtac

DonJose wrote:

They would laugh their a$$es off at the stupid Micks with their face paint and .22's.

At what gun club have you seen 'stupid Micks' wearing face paint?

Rovi

cushtac wrote:

At what gun club have you seen 'stupid Micks' wearing face paint?

The Glen of Imaal, perhaps?
I too would love to know where DonJose saw this.

Vegeta

for those of us who forget how Rambo dressed

Rovi

Vegeta wrote:

for those of us who forget how Rambo dressed

Indeed.
I have never, ever, seen anyone going shirtless and wearing an impromptu headband at a shooting range.
Apart from myself (obviously), I don't know of anyone with the physique to carry it off without looking ridiculous, and it's generally too bloody cold here anyway.

Sparks

Looking ridiculous isn't a problem. I've seen shooters dressed in giant leprechaun suits to shoot (Charity biathlon event in WTSC a year or three ago. Raised a few grand for the children's hospital. Now that's a photo that got us some good press coverage.)

Looking scary to a member of the public who does not have any exposure to our community or to firearms or to range procedures, that is the problem.



ps. don't knock the headbands

Rovi

Sparks wrote:

don't knock the headbands

Get your shirt off!

Sparks

Rovi wrote:

Get your shirt off!

You probably want to wait till after the diet before saying that

Rovi

Rovi wrote:

Get your shirt off!

DON'T!

coffeepot

So Clare Gunner can I take it that you think that all of the clubs and shooting orginisations around the country that have banned the wearing of military type clothing on ranges and in competitions have no justification whatsoever for doing this?

I have to say that I have not personally seen the shooters who dress up as soldiers wearing face paint. However having seen the extremes some of them go to I would not be surprised if some of them wear it in front of the mirror at home. I have no problem with that, consenting “adults” (?)… privacy of your own home etc.:D

Vegeta

Which of the following would you be more afraid of owning a gun?

Sparks

Depends on what the second chap's orders were Veg

Put it this way. You're Irish. What do you associate this image with?


Is it someone out to do some target shooting on the range on a cold day or do you immediately think of something more sinister? I'd bet euros to croissants that it'd be the latter; and that's for you, who's spent time on a shooting range and who's used to people wearing camo and other odd clothing.

The problem we're running into at all levels in this sport, from recruiting new members, to working with the Gardai and DoJ, to soliciting commercial sponsorship, is that in Ireland, there is a long and established public image of guns being used by:

1. The IRA (or other terrorist group)
2. Armed criminals
3. The Army or armed Gardai
4. Hunters (as in the miscreant who shot Bambi's mother, not the positive image we'd have of hunters)
5. "Nutters" - meaning anyone who ever used a firearm in an incident like Dunblane, Hungerford, Columbine, Port Arthur or "lesser" (and I use that word under protest) incidents like Abbeylara or the more recent Nally case.

Those are very negative images and our priority, for the community as a whole, regardless of any and all splits - and hell, if even Declan Keogh and I can agree on this principle, it must be universal - must to create and promote a more positive public image of the shooting sports if we ever want to see things get any better.

If that means dress codes on the range where Joe Public or Joe Press get their first impressions made, then that's a *very* small price to pay.

No-one is saying that hunters shouldn't wear camo when hunting, nor that serving members of the Gardai or armed forces shouldn't be allowed wear their uniform on the range if shooting (though surprisingly, I have *never* seen any of them do so in over a decade except when they were just calling in before heading off to go on duty). All I'm saying (and I'm speaking personally, not on behalf of the NTSA), is that I think the lack of any kind of dress code for the range, no matter how informal, gives us nothing but it certainly doesn't cost us nothing. Mind you, I suppose I'm more used to the idea - ISSF rules do stipulate a dress code (it's actually the very first of the ISSF clothing regulations):

7.4.7.1
It is the responsibility of the competitor to appear on the ranges dressed in a manner appropriate to a public event.
7.4.7.1.1
During the Award or other Ceremonies the athletes are required to present themselves in their official national uniform or national tracksuits (tops and bottoms). All team members must be dressed in the same way.

There's a time and a place for everything and I don't think the range is either for camo. I mean, if someone showed up on the range and in between targets decided to sit down and read a hard-core pornographic magazine, would you think that was acceptable?

Vegeta

To start with I cant even see if the guy in your picture is wearing camo of any sort.

Secondly, if we truly want to promote our sport we wouldn't be creating this divide. Yes Joe Public sees people in camo and thinks IRA etc etc but surely if the target shooting community put a ban on it they are only confirming what the public believes, wearing camo=someone up to no good.

There are sound practical reasons also. I shoot in a real tree camo jacket, a particular item of clothing that is quite bulky but gives great weather protection and hides me well. Now if I want to practice with my rifle in this jacket it has to be at a range (at least very shortly it will be). The target shooting community might as well call me a militant so what am I to do.

I also object to the banning of all military clothing. The army guys wear black boots and big thermal socks, sometimes green or black. Should these be banned? Not all military clothing is even camo pattern. Often plain green woolen jumpers, shirts etc ban also?? I know this might be a bit anal but sweeping statements like ban all military clothing will never do anyone any good.

If people had said ban camo patterns as worn by the worlds armies and terrorist groups, then I would have been on board from the start. To put a blanket ban on all camo and militray style clothing only breeds ignorance.

If a member of Joe Public turns up at the range and a guy is wearing realtree camo gear (which he had or had not never seen before). I bet his first re-action would be "Cool that camo has pictures of trees and leaves on it" or "Why's that person wearing strange camo at the range?" Then the person who brought him/her to the range should explain that its a camo patter very popular with hunters and fishermen and not worn by any army.

Can you see a pair of plain black or green combats causing offence to anyone. Lots of non shooters wear these too as they are pretty fashionable. In fact I bought a pair in GAP in america last year.

Rew

Couple of guys in my club wear full uniforms from multiple nations, down to the rank markings. Don't pay too much attention to them except for the ones who walk around in a full irish uniform. Thats illeagle, simple as that.

I do think it gives a very bad impression of the sport as the public have such little knowledge of guns and are very willing to jump to conclusions based on apperance. With this in mind I think that clubs are right to ban mil clothing for the greater good of the sport. its not like it stops anyone from shooting and dress codes arn't unknown in other sporting clubs.