Bonded Bead Insulation - Installers

ciaranr

Hi all,

I am looking to install bonded bead cavity wall insulation in an existing bungalow. I am happy with the choice of overall product, but unsure which system or installer to go with. I have narrowed down my choice of system to three BBA approved types: Warmfill, Polypearl and Ecobead. Conductivities are as follows:

Warmfill 0.04 W/mK
Warmfill + 0.034 W/mK
Polypearl 0.037 W/mK
Ecobead 0.04 W/mK
Ecobead + 0.033 W/mK

(Where + denotes a higher grade product than the standard). Due to the cavity width (100mm) I think I will have to go with Warmfill +, Polypearl or Ecobead + to get U-values up to the current regulations. I feel I should aim for at least the current minimum required Irish standard.

Now, my question is, does anyone have any first-hand experience with the above products that would make chooosing one easier? I haven't got any prices yet so I have very little to differentiate the systems. Cost will not be deciding factor anyway I don't think, as long as there aren't huge differences. I am looking for a good installer who leaves a nice finish and good performance from the product above all. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Ciaran Reilly

kevinp

Check with "Home insulation services" in Birr Co Offaly. They are at the business for years.

fatchance

Ciaran,
I'm in Pollard and I've decided to go with A and A insulation in Collinstown 044-9666100. They have done a few houes I know of including my Dads and all has gone fine. They are pumping my cavity, insulation my ceiling and dormer windows and using Actis TRI-ISO super9 on the dormer ceilings which is equivalent to 200mm rockwool, at a cost of 5k incl vat

Those figures you displayed threw me so I got the leaflet I was given my A and A, it's on their website too(which isn't great btw). Their bonded bead is also 0.04. Mind you, I'm also putting insulated plasterboard on all outter walls so I'm not to worried about the figures, they all seem much the same. Am I wrong?

Viking House

fatchance wrote:

Ciaran,
I'm in Pollard and I've decided to go with A and A insulation in Collinstown 044-9666100. They have done a few houes I know of including my Dads and all has gone fine. They are pumping my cavity, insulation my ceiling and dormer windows and using Actis TRI-ISO super9 on the dormer ceilings which is equivalent to 200mm rockwool, at a cost of 5k incl vat

Those figures you displayed threw me so I got the leaflet I was given my A and A, it's on their website too(which isn't great btw). Their bonded bead is also 0.04. Mind you, I'm also putting insulated plasterboard on all outter walls so I'm not to worried about the figures, they all seem much the same. Am I wrong?

The Trada certification has been withdrawn from the Actis TRI-ISO super9 and they now only give it a U-value of about 0.65 instead of 0.27. Are they still selling it based on the old figures.

Pumping the cavities will not cut out the cold bridging between the wall and the floor, around the windows and where the wall meets the roof, so the U-value given is only for the middle parts of the wall that are insulated.

Polysterene is very light (20kg/m2) and looses heat very quickly.

Insulated plasterboard moves the Dew Point of the wall to the inside, to an area just behind the insulation and this is where internal moisture condenses causing fungus and mould growth.

Sorry for all the bad news!!!

Builderwoman!

Viking House et al we have Actis Tri Iso Super 9 and Viking and I spoke about this subject before but if you read..follow link http://www.actis-isolation.com/uk/

you will find that Actis have re-tested Actis Tri Iso Super 9.

ardara1

Builderwoman! wrote:

Viking House et al we have Actis Tri Iso Super 9 and Viking and I spoke about this subject before but if you read..follow link http://www.actis-isolation.com/uk/

you will find that Actis have re-tested Actis Tri Iso Super 9.

the new test carried out by Actis are not accepted by ANY ACCREDITTED testing house in the UK - Building COntrol, NHBC all do not accept the test results and will not accept material on any sites - many UK merchants now refusing to stock the item - only 1 relective foil with BBA and MUST be used with another amount of real insulation -

Get your money back BWoman

fatchance

Viking man,

now you have me concerned! There I was thinking I had all my insulation needs covered and you go and burst my bubble....thanks though.

So, if not super 9 for my dormer ceilings then what? Should I just use the traditional 200mm rockwool or maybe kingspan therma pitch? The roof also need to breath so maybe 200mm rockwool is to much as the rafters at that.
Can you suggest any other solution please?

As for the insulated plasterboard, the condensation would be minimal to say the least if any, it's not as if the internal cavity wall will that low in temperature as to cause dampness. And even if it did cause some condensation, I can't imagine it would ever cause a problem. You would need to be talking serious differences in temperature and alot of dampness.
The alternative is just to have a plastered sand/cement finish which is a lot of external wall to heat, and continue to heat. Don't you think?

Viking House

So, if not super 9 for my dormer ceilings then what? Should I just use the traditional 200mm rockwool or maybe kingspan therma pitch? The roof also need to breath so maybe 200mm rockwool is too much as the rafters at that.
Can you suggest any other solution please? You can fill up the space between the rafters with 200mm of Rockwool when you put a vapour control layer on the inside of the roof, we use this http://www.glidevale.com/Downloads/VC%20Foil%204pp%20.pdf reflective vapour control layer from Richmond Building Products because it also doubles up as a heat reflector. When you leave a 20mm service cavity inside the membrane they say you get the equivelent of 40mm rockwool.
If your roof has the slates taken off then I would recommend 50mm Softboard on top of your rafters to increase the density and heat retention properties of your roof.

As for the insulated plasterboard, the condensation would be minimal to say the least if any, it's not as if the internal cavity wall will that low in temperature as to cause dampness. And even if it did cause some condensation, I can't imagine it would ever cause a problem. You would need to be talking serious differences in temperature and alot of dampness.
The alternative is just to have a plastered sand/cement finish which is a lot of external wall to heat, and continue to heat. Did you consider dense external insulation? 2 inches outside is better than 4 inches inside. The only problem is that the heat will go up the cavity so you would also have to pump them also.

Builderwoman!

Hi Guys,

Now I am concerned. Tri Iso cost us a fortune! How do I go about getting my money back? Any advice or help in proving that we deserve to get it back from the Dublin agent would be very very gratefully received.

On the flip side our house is very warm and was lovely and cool to work in last summer but that's not the point we spent the money hoping to get the Uvalue promised. I guess using Actis may also go against us with we get a BER test or report done in the future?

Looking forward to reading more from you guys.

Thanks,
BW!

ardara1

ciaranr wrote:

Hi all,

Due to the cavity width (100mm) I think I will have to go with Warmfill +, Polypearl or Ecobead + to get U-values up to the current regulations. I feel I should aim for at least the current minimum required Irish standard.

Ciaran Reilly

100mm of white or even grey bead will not even meet the 0.27 standard that you're after - read their agrement certs.

Is it a wise thing to completely fill a cavity - we've seen in this past week one of the main consequences of global warming - wind driven rain - it's been coming sidewise at us all week.

If you've only good 100mm you'll have to dryline with insulation intrnally also to achieve the regs.

ardara1

Builderwoman! wrote:

Hi Guys,

Now I am concerned. Tri Iso cost us a fortune! How do I go about getting my money back? Any advice or help in proving that we deserve to get it back from the Dublin agent would be very very gratefully received.

On the flip side our house is very warm and was lovely and cool to work in last summer but that's not the point we spent the money hoping to get the Uvalue promised. I guess using Actis may also go against us with we get a BER test or report done in the future?

Looking forward to reading more from you guys.

Thanks,
BW!

It depends as to how the performance was discribed to you when it was sold - Was it to meet Irish Part L - Or 0.20 or better?

The DOE or Building COntrol in Ireland has not as yet made a judgment on their perofrmance as they have in the UK - but our methods of measuring performance of insulation is IDENTICAL to the UK - perhaps you should start with them.

Builderwoman!

We were told it would meet higher than the standard regs. Must dig out the brochure. Can't rem the figures off hand. Any idea when DOE are going to make a call on the performance?

ardara1

Builderwoman! wrote:

We were told it would meet higher than the standard regs. Must dig out the brochure. Can't rem the figures off hand. Any idea when DOE are going to make a call on the performance?

The DOE or Building control will not take a position until they're asked - is the house covered by Homebond????

Builderwoman!

No we did self build so no Homebond. Can we ask DOE to investigate it?
Do you think when energy report is being carried out at any stage in the future that BER testers would give us a bad rating due to using the Actis?

ardara1

Builderwoman! wrote:

No we did self build so no Homebond. Can we ask DOE to investigate it?
Do you think when energy report is being carried out at any stage in the future that BER testers would give us a bad rating due to using the Actis?

The acreditted assessor must measue U-value performances specifically to a standards set by the BRE in the Paper BR443 - it is this paper that settled the Multi-foil agrguments andstates that they must be measured just as every other material is measured - the multifoil industry had gone to CEN in Europe to ask for another method of measurement to be allowed - they were given to Jan this year - and nothing happened - so they were reffered back to BR443 - under this they measure somewhere around 0.50 U-value for a roof.

Their comparitive test against a similar house with fibre did actually perform better - but simply because it was sealled properly with low permeability - under our new Part L - this must be measured in the BER assessment - but separately.

Builderwoman!

Can we get the DOE to look at the performance of foil? Just concerned what way to takle this with the suppliers of the Tri Iso.

fatchance

Found this independant study, only problem is it's from 2005 but done my gov dept in UK which should be impartial.....shouldn't they? lol

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/multi-foil-insulation_july2005.pdf

Also, this is an excellent thread and up to date, very informative, check it out:

http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:wKw3wOgOywsJ:www.ntcstudios.co.uk/forum/posting.php%3Fmode%3Dquote%26p%3D138%26sid%3D880bf21e8a6840a06d942aba53e29144+super+tri+iso+9+report&hl=en&gl=ie&ct=clnk&cd=10

ciaranr

Thanks all for your replies and suggestions, I was fairly sure that 100mm would meet the regulations going by a SEI spreadsheet I downloaded and used, but I'll have to recheck it seems! I'll give the recommended suppliers a shout and let ye know how I get on.

Cheers,

Ciaran