The Dark Sacrement - Exorcism In Modern Ireland

GodlessM

Oh wow...

Portia 27

Cynical Apathy wrote: »

I couldn't agree more, I can imagine the horror. Have you considered bringing some sort of charges against them? If money was the case, maybe some Atheist or non-religious group would back you. There are definitely idiotic parents out there who may have a sick child, but instead of getting proper medical care, they will get the Church involved who are now looking to prey on peoples fears because they lost all credibility with the revelations of the thousands of children raped in their care.

I have thought about it.

The supposed support groups told me that exorcism is taboo and people would make my life worse if I spoke out.I wonder why?????????????

Portia 27

Tucking Fypo wrote: »

Portia, your story is so unbelievable that I really can't believe it. Surely if this did happen, it would be all over the news and you wouldn't have been the only one. Who is stopping you from speaking out?

I appreciate your OPINION.

I never ask anyone to believe it as it is my experience.

Exorcism was taboo and still is according to the support group.

Mmmmmm, I am speaking out HERE.

Portia 27

Cynical Apathy wrote: »

I couldn't agree more, I can imagine the horror. Have you considered bringing some sort of charges against them? If money was the case, maybe some Atheist or non-religious group would back you. There are definitely idiotic parents out there who may have a sick child, but instead of getting proper medical care, they will get the Church involved who are now looking to prey on peoples fears because they lost all credibility with the revelations of the thousands of children raped in their care.

http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/


http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/witchild.htm

Portia 27

GodlessM wrote: »

Oh wow...

http://www.saff.ukhq.co.uk/dirvine.htm

In his Preface to From Witchcraft to Christ Arthur Neil claims that he and his evangelical chums spent seven months exorcising and indoctrinating Doreen for Jesus. I know a few psychiatrist who would consider that a form of abuse in itself. According to Neil one Demon called, perhaps appropriately, Dementia, vowed he would destroy Doreen's brain before he would 'come-out'. (I will resist the temptation to say 'if he could find it' - her book is replete with strange statements positied as fact which most folk would find highly irrational )

Cynical Apathy

Who are the bloody support groups? It sounds like they have an agenda. You probably shouldn't seek retribution but you should seek justice by doing all in your power to highlight this vile practice and show it for what it is... abuse.

Portia 27

Cynical Apathy wrote: »

Who are the bloody support groups? It sounds like they have an agenda. You probably shouldn't seek retribution but you should seek justice by doing all in your power to highlight this vile practice and show it for what it is... abuse.

I contacted FAOISEAMH.

Yes, their agenda was to keep it hidden as the lady tried to put fear in me re taboo of what people might say if I spoke out on the matter.

Yes, I have done a TV programme on the matter - not allowed on RTE of course.

It is not about money.No money could ever repair the damage done and the nightmares.

However a famous lawyer has said to me "There is no justice, the only thing the men of god worship is money, so by taking itfrom them, that is the only justice you will ever see in your lifetime".

Fuinseog

dib wrote: »

Has anyone read this yet?

I received it as a present over Christmas and I'm about to start into it now. Basically, it's a series of short stories, presented in a fictional manner that are based on actual cases here in Ireland. Names, locations and family details (number of children in a family etc) have been changed at the request of the people involved. It was researched and written by David M Kiely & Christina McKenna who were on Matt Cooper's "Last Word" on Today FM talking about exorcism/possession etc and this book a few weeks ago.

Just thought it would merit discussion here. Anyone who would like a loan of it when I've finished, just send me a PM.

dib

it is a good book and they have a sequel on ghosts. title eludes me. worth reading as well.

Portia 27

Fuinseog wrote: »

it is a good book and they have a sequel on ghosts. title eludes me. worth reading as well.

There must be a record kept because the men in dresses came for my daughter too age 3 weeks-

Fuinseog

Portia 27 wrote: »

There must be a record kept because the men in dresses came for my daughter too age 3 weeks-

?????

6th

Fuinseog wrote: »

it is a good book and they have a sequel on ghosts. title eludes me. worth reading as well.

Not a sequel as such but by one of the authors Christina McKenna it's called Irelands Haunted Women. Great book, 2 accounts in particular.

dolphin city

Portia 27 wrote: »

Thank you.

I wanted this taboo broken and all truth out in the open for all to witness, in the hope that no other child or adult suffers because of these old superstitions.

I was unsure of the reaction, as I left ireland in 1996 and left all my blood family behind.

I kept quiet because in 1990, when my daughter was born, I had a visit from the men in dresses too calling her a witch at only 3 weeks.

Ah but what most people may not know is that the Witch label followed me and was used by the HSE as well in 1995.

They did not want me to leave an abusive marriage because of the Catholic teaching that women must obey and suffer as taught by some saint Augustine.

Once again I asked and got told that I was too strong for a woman in Catholic ireland, that my children are too intelligent and need locking up and given ELECTRIC SHOCK THERAPY.

Even the children of the "Witch" are made to suffer - FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I was gagged until 2008 from speaking about this, but I promised to make it public one day and here it is.

I was totally shocked to be honest and thought I was back in the dark ages.

this all happened in the 1990's. I'll be honest wtih you - I don't believe you at all.

whats the problem with telling us what programme you did and for what channel.

what year did the "men in dresses" come for your baby?

Fuinseog

Portia 27 wrote: »

I contacted FAOISEAMH.

Yes, their agenda was to keep it hidden as the lady tried to put fear in me re taboo of what people might say if I spoke out on the matter.

Yes, I have done a TV programme on the matter - not allowed on RTE of course.

It is not about money.No money could ever repair the damage done and the nightmares.

However a famous lawyer has said to me "There is no justice, the only thing the men of god worship is money, so by taking itfrom them, that is the only justice you will ever see in your lifetime".

you seem to have a chip on your shoulder. if you had a hatred for Jews as strong as your hatred for Catholics you would not be allowed to air your views here.

Fuinseog

Portia 27 wrote: »

I am researching this subject because I was exorcised by the Catholic cult in Ireland, for simply being too strong and independent for a female and the priest and my mother wanted to make me more compliant to the will of the patriarch.

I have had nightmares for as long as I can remember,

In my mind it is a crime and child abuse.

Yet the pope has appointed hundreds of more men in frocks to train in exorcism-even though it is considered a crime against children.

I just wanted this posted for history as it is taboo to mention it as being deemed a witch child carries a heavy stigma for life- especially when the HSE find out.

oh God, another anti catholic sob story about how harsh a country this place was in the 1990s

Fuinseog

Portia 27 wrote: »

Thank you.

I wanted this taboo broken and all truth out in the open for all to witness, in the hope that no other child or adult suffers because of these old superstitions.

I was unsure of the reaction, as I left ireland in 1996 and left all my blood family behind.

I kept quiet because in 1990, when my daughter was born, I had a visit from the men in dresses too calling her a witch at only 3 weeks.

Ah but what most people may not know is that the Witch label followed me and was used by the HSE as well in 1995.

They did not want me to leave an abusive marriage because of the Catholic teaching that women must obey and suffer as taught by some saint Augustine.

Once again I asked and got told that I was too strong for a woman in Catholic ireland, that my children are too intelligent and need locking up and given ELECTRIC SHOCK THERAPY.

Even the children of the "Witch" are made to suffer - FOR ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.

I was gagged until 2008 from speaking about this, but I promised to make it public one day and here it is.

I was totally shocked to be honest and thought I was back in the dark ages.

maybe you should talk to Joe. was the cruel Romantic Catholic dictatorship of Eire the only place to use electric shock treatment?

you will be pleased to know that more an d more exorcists are being trained.


AMDG

thebullkf

Fuinseog wrote: »

maybe you should talk to Joe. was the cruel Romantic Catholic dictatorship of Eire the only place to use electric shock treatment?

you will be pleased to know that more an d more exorcists are being trained.


AMDG

you seem to be trying to antagonise the OP.

your point scoring does you no favours.

Fuinseog

thebullkf wrote: »

you seem to be trying to antagonise the OP.

your point scoring does you no favours.

point scoring?

the OP or at least Portia 27 seems to be trying to antagonise Catholics

thebullkf

Fuinseog wrote: »

point scoring?

the OP or at least Portia 27 seems to be trying to antagonise Catholics

amdg....



so you don't deny you're being antagonistic?

Fuinseog

thebullkf wrote: »

amdg....



so you don't deny you're being antagonistic?

Portia 27 regards Catholics as supertitous bumpkins and makes bigotry remarks, referring to priests as 'men in dresses'. She is bound to run into someone who counters her opinion.
I am in favour of exorcism, which is in much demand these days. if that is being antagonistic then too bad.

thebullkf

Fuinseog wrote: »

Portia 27 regards Catholics as supertitous bumpkins and makes bigotry remarks, referring to priests as 'men in dresses'. She is bound to run into someone who counters her opinion.
I am in favour of exorcism, which is in much demand these days. if that is being antagonistic then too bad.

i don't recall her saying bumpkins

Bigotry-please:rolleyes: .

obviously portia has a strong dislike for the CC, if her story is true, who can blame her?

your reference to amdg, in light of abuse carried out in the name of christ by those "men" {note i disregard dresses; i have "men" in comma's because these abusers were animals. } is disgusting and intended to offend Portia directly.
For you to lamely play "he said,she said" is pathetic tbh.
the joe duffy reference is patonising also.

I reported your post and yet nothing mentioned on thread by any mods.


as far as dresses go, the alb (?) looks like a large gown/robe dress, i don't see the problem here is it you that has the problem i wonder?


finally why do you think exorcisms are in much demand?

Oryx

All antagonistic remarks stop here. Debate and discuss civilly please or you will be taking a holiday from the forum.

Fuinseog

There was also a case concerning a woman named Bridget Cleary in Co. Tipperary (I think), who was burned to death in the 1920s by her own family for apparently being a 'witch'. Startling stuff. The older generations were/are very misguided and readily believed in superstitions. Some families even believed in fairy 'changelings' - that, say, their son was taken away by the fairies due to him violating fairy laws, or for simply being gorgeous and irresistible to the fairies :pac:, and then being replaced by a feckin' changeling/doppleganger. :rolleyes: I remember reading that one mother's reasoning for this belief was that her son had a strange look in his eyes and that his whole personality had changed. Such bullsh*t. :rolleyes: Fairies, me hole. Ditto for witches, demonic possession, and all the rest.

.[/QUOTE]



Bridget Cleary was burnt in 1895, not the 1920s. Her family had reason to suspect that she was a siofra. Its only recently people referred to her as witch and the label does not really fit. people are entitled to their beliefs.
People are also reluctant to talk about these things for fear of being mocked by urban types.
its also possible that people did not know so much about mental illnesses at the time, so I would not be so quick to mock them from our modern 21st century perspective.

thebullkf

Fuinseog wrote: »

There was also a case concerning a woman named Bridget Cleary in Co. Tipperary (I think), who was burned to death in the 1920s by her own family for apparently being a 'witch'. Startling stuff. The older generations were/are very misguided and readily believed in superstitions. Some families even believed in fairy 'changelings' - that, say, their son was taken away by the fairies due to him violating fairy laws, or for simply being gorgeous and irresistible to the fairies :pac:, and then being replaced by a feckin' changeling/doppleganger. :rolleyes: I remember reading that one mother's reasoning for this belief was that her son had a strange look in his eyes and that his whole personality had changed. Such bullsh*t. :rolleyes: Fairies, me hole. Ditto for witches, demonic possession, and all the rest.

.

Bridget Cleary was burnt in 1895, not the 1920s. Her family had reason to suspect that she was a siofra. Its only recently people referred to her as witch and the label does not really fit. people are entitled to their beliefs.
People are also reluctant to talk about these things for fear of being mocked by urban types.
its also possible that people did not know so much about mental illnesses at the time, so I would not be so quick to mock them from our modern 21st century perspective

116 years to the day ironically enough.... that poor woman was murdered,hot poker to the head to make her take "medicine"...held down by men by force etc... accordinmg to the local doctor and priest,she was 'trivially' ill, my guess it was murder through proxy, borne out of jealousy maybe.
Apparently she was an aextremely beautiful woman. They also found £20 hidden in her house,which was a considerable sum at those times..... her father in law was also waked that night i believe....religous fervour?...drunken jealousy??

either way 15 years was not enough for her 'husband'

for all you superstitous people there were 13 people present @ her death.....

Cynical Apathy

I don't know much about her, but it seems quite realistic to me.
If I came across a priest doing an exorcism on a child, I'd beat the **** out of him. It is child abuse. The dark ages are over.

Guitar_Monkey

Hmmm....this all sounds a bit iffy. I'm not sure i believe it's true. If it did happen, it's appaling. Nobody would argue with that. But if it did happen then it would seem to go against church rules on exorcism. It is actually quite hard to get an exorcism done by the catholic church. It has to be sanctioned by a bishop...and the person also has to undergo medical and psychological tests beforehand. It's usually carried out as a last resort.
All that said....if this did happen the way it has been described, then it is abuse. Which has nothing to do with Catholicism or Christianity. It is unfair to slag off catholics and Christians in general. Absolutely all abusers should be punished for their crimes....I don't think you'd find a Christain who would argue with that. But don't slag off peoples beliefs because you don't agree with them. If you knew how important a person's faith is to them, I think you'd think twice about it.

David900

I agree with the last three posts on the page before to be honest. Her story doesn't add up with the time line and RTE not showing her documentary is just farcical, as the station has on many occasions aired programs in defiance of the Catholic Church. I've read through her other posts, seems like she has an agenda with authority.

Whispered

Portia 27 wrote: »

I kept quiet because in 1990, when my daughter was born, I had a visit from the men in dresses too calling her a witch at only 3 weeks.

Ah but what most people may not know is that the Witch label followed me and was used by the HSE as well in 1995.

Can you dscribe how they came for your daughter, reasons given. What actually happened?

And can you explain in what context "the HSE" used the label. Who in the HSE?

Portia 27 wrote: »

They did not want me to leave an abusive marriage because of the Catholic teaching that women must obey and suffer as taught by some saint Augustine.

Who are "they"?

Portia 27 wrote: »

Once again I asked and got told that I was too strong for a woman in Catholic ireland, that my children are too intelligent and need locking up and given ELECTRIC SHOCK THERAPY.

WHO told you that? In what context. Your whole story is very very confusing. There is a lot of talk of "them" and references to "being told". But I'm finding it so hard to make sense of it.

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I am finding it hard to make sense of your story.

Portia 27 wrote: »

I was gagged until 2008 from speaking about this, but I promised to make it public one day and here it is.

I was totally shocked to be honest and thought I was back in the dark ages.

Who gagged you?

Portia 27 wrote: »

My entire teaching career was destroyed by their ignorance.

What? How? What happened?

Portia 27 wrote: »

for the HSE to go to court and label you a witch- their social workers go to conferences and come back believing in it too.Growing organic crops also can get you labelled..LOL.

When did this happen? At what stage could the HSE legally get someone recognised as a witch in a court of law?

Portia 27 wrote: »

There must be a record kept because the men in dresses came for my daughter too age 3 weeks-

came for her? As in tried to take her away? How did you stop it?

Can you tell your full story, so we can understand. It sounds very interesting, but very hard to follow from these posts.

Fuinseog

what is this thread actually about? It seems to have degenerated into sectarian Catholic bashing. Those who have read the book in question will know that Protestant ministers also were involved in exorcisms.

the message of the book seems to be that there is evil in many forms out there and it seems to be increasing in our secular society.

Guitar_Monkey

Fuinseog wrote: »

what is this thread actually about? It seems to have degenerated into sectarian Catholic bashing. Those who have read the book in question will know that Protestant ministers also were involved in exorcisms.

the message of the book seems to be that there is evil in many forms out there and it seems to be increasing in our secular society.

It's like any tread on here that mentions Christianity. It has some how become acceptable in the last few years to mock and bash christianity and especially Catholicism. Not just on here...but in the mainstream media too. There are things said on tv these days, that if they were about other religions....there would be outcry. What happened to respect for other peoples beliefs ?

In relation to the topic....I have read the book and found it interesting. Anyone interested in the subject should check out the following :

The Rite - Matt Baglio
Hostage To The Devil - Malachi Martin
An Exorcist Tells His Story - Fr. Gabriele Amorth

6th

Guitar_Monkey wrote: »

Hostage To The Devil - Malachi Martin

An excellent read.