Subsidised Drinking - hurrah????

MadsL

A new scheme to help rural pubs hit by stricter drink driving laws could be introduced in the next few months. Rural Affairs Minister Eamon O'Cuiv has said the Government will be introducing the measure before the next general election.

Publicans in isolated areas have been complaining about a loss in business since the introduction of mandatory breath-testing last year and are calling for the establishment of public transport services.

Is he for real??
Does anyone think that with Health Service in it's current state we (your taxes for taxis folks) should be subsidising booze cruises for poor deprived 'isolated' areas. My fecking heart bleeds.

Can't believe the opposition (for want of a better term) haven't savaged them on this.

Of course according to a poll for Newstalk today, nearly half (40%) of TDs believe random breath testing in the mornings is a waste of Garda time.

Anyone else outraged?

User45701

They have never handled expenditure well in Ireland so i don't expect them to

MadsL

MadsL wrote:

Is he for real??
Does anyone think that with Health Service in it's current state we (your taxes for taxis folks) should be subsidising booze cruises for poor deprived 'isolated' areas. My fecking heart bleeds.

I'd rather they cut monies spent on roads around Dublin and used that tbh. After all, the rest of the country is supposed to have a bleeding heart for the people who decide to live in West Dublin and are then shocked at the level of traffic...

Colonel Sanders

User45701 wrote:

They have never handled expenditure well in Ireland so i don't expect them to

Exactly, unfortunately our public sector spending is so badly handled i'd expect this kind of nonsense.

gurramok

Deleted User wrote:

I'd rather they cut monies spent on roads around Dublin and used that tbh. After all, the rest of the country is supposed to have a bleeding heart for the people who decide to live in West Dublin and are then shocked at the level of traffic...

I'd rather cut monies spent in isolated areas and spend it in the local urban area than helping some one-off house in the middle of nowhere.
You can't live in an isolated area and expect services to come to you, it should be the other way around, it makes economic sense.
Urban dwellers should expect to be subsidised for taxi/bus fares getting home from the pub like those in isolated areas to be fair.

MontgomeryClift

Free transport to help fund a private enterprise? Why can't the publicans be the ones to provide transport? They're the ones making the fortunes from this legal drug trade.

And yes, you can't live in the back of beyond and expect it all laid on. But if those who have made the mistake of choosing to live in a field want to get a bus to the pub they can hire one or organise one. But expecting 'the state' to provide a free bus service? You don't even get that during the day!

flogen

MontgomeryClift wrote:

Free transport to help fund a private enterprise? Why can't the publicans be the ones to provide transport? They're the ones making the fortunes from this legal drug trade.

I agree; if people aren't willing to get themselves there and back legally they obviously don't want the product that badly. If they don't want the product that badly (i.e., there's no demand) then the supply is cut out. Simple free-market economy - if the demand for chocolate died out tomorrow, would we expect the Government to keep Cadbury's afloat too?

Publicans in even reasonably busy pubs can make good money and can surely subsidise this themselves - better than that, how about all the drinkers put 1 pints worth of money into the pot and pay for a bus or taxi between themselves? (that was fielded before by someone here I think, and frankly it's the most logical suggestion I've heard so far).

ballooba

The publicans in this country have shot themselves in the foot over the last 10 years or so. They continually ramped there prices up to unreasonable levels.

Then when people stopped going to the pub they blamed first the smoking ban and then the drink driving crackdown.

People my age just don't drink in the pub. It's too expensive. When my older siblings where in college they used to talk about drinking in pubs around town like The Bleeding Horse, Hartigans, Russels.

We never did this in college because it was too expensive. A whole generaation has been lost to the pubs imo.

Off sales have gone up, people are drinking at home. My local Offie (Ranelagh) was thronged on New Year's Eve, the local pubs were empty.

The publicans should be providing transport for locals to get to and fro the pub. They should also be lowering their prices to get the numbers back up. Instead they are looking for a handout.

As for this proposal, the title of the article is quite accurate, funny that no one finds it strange however.

Fianna Fáil - The publican party.

sovtek

Two solutions:

1) Seriously ramp up public transport in rural and urban areas
2) Declare the VFI an illegal organisation and arrest every member.

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

A whole generaation has been lost to the pubs imo.

The lost generation, a tragedy in modern Ireland...;)

Dunno about Dublin but round these parts the pub trade is the worst one going. Sure many of them are sitting on a valuable asset, but trying to make a living off the 5 people sipping 5 pints each a night has gotta be tough. Most publicans I know have a day job.

LostinBlanch

ballooba wrote:

Fianna Fáil - The publican party.

Now that's not fair, in fact it's a scurrillous accusation to make against the party. Sure Mickey Mac is going to put them in their place and bring in cafe bars all over the place . . . . . . . err maybe not.:o

bonkey

sovtek wrote:

Two solutions:

1) Seriously ramp up public transport in rural and urban areas
2) Declare the VFI an illegal organisation and arrest every member.

3) Do nothing and allow a free market to work the way its supposed to.

There is nothing sacred about pub-owners, nor is there much pride which should come from our having (had) a pub-centric culture. There is certainly nothing honourable about over-the-limit-driving, the reduction in which is allegedly the "problem" being countered here.

I see no reason for intervention.

If and when the members of some number of local villages / townlands put their own money into a minibus to get them en masse to and from the pub, I'll accept that there's a case to be made for public transport supplying the service.

In the meantime, I'll take the stance that its the end of a market who's time was either artificial to begin with, or who's time has passed.

miju

at the end of the day it's a free market economy , it's up the publicans to "improve" their service and if they don't they go under. if they start going down this route then i imagine that Dublin Bus will be free during the rush hour or at least the Nitelink , hell even pay the taxis for us all home at the end of the night.

have people in the country never heard of garden parties FFS , why should the tax payer pick up the transport tab for someone who wants to go on the piss or socialise??????

disgraceful and i reckon FF will get punished for this somewhat in Dublin come election

Sangre

Haven't these people ever heard of a designated driver? One car carries four people, if each person has a car then they can bring home four others. Rotate this every Friday so you're not drinking once every 5 weeks. Ohh boo hoo.

This is a disgrace. Its becoming more and more evident how the publicans run this country. Subisidied taxis for the pissheads. What a joke.

Has anyone seen these bus runs in action?

There is one in my area. Collects about 20 OAPs every couple of weeks. No 'pissheads'. These people live in remote areas. The bus brings them in for a few pints and drops them home. The suggestion that some farmer living 20 miles from the nearest village should host a 'garden party' is a good one, maybe they should go on their Bebo pages and rustle up a crowd...:rolleyes:

bonkey

Sangre wrote:

Haven't these people ever heard of a designated driver? One car carries four people, if each person has a car then they can bring home four others. Rotate this every Friday so you're not drinking once every 5 weeks. Ohh boo hoo.

But then people would complain about the prices of the non-alcoholic bevvies....and that would mean they were complaining about the publicans rather than the government.

Can't be having that. The publican's are the best victim's their money can pay for.

Macy

Deleted User wrote:

There is one in my area. Collects about 20 OAPs every couple of weeks. No 'pissheads'. These people live in remote areas. The bus brings them in for a few pints and drops them home.

But they obviously have cars? Since it's supposedly that they can't go out now because of random breath testing, and they fact they're incapable of not having more than the limit to drink.

sovtek

bonkey wrote:

3) Do nothing and allow a free market to work the way its supposed to.

There is no such thing as a free market...especially in reference to pubs.

If there were a better public transport system, in general, the drink driving would cease to be so widespread.

sovtek

miju wrote:

at the end of the day it's a free market economy , it's up the publicans to "improve" their service and if they don't they go under. if they start going down this route then i imagine that Dublin Bus will be free during the rush hour or at least the Nitelink , hell even pay the taxis for us all home at the end of the night.

...and its up to the government to make sure that an industry doesn't get together and fix/gouge prices....oops

why should the tax payer pick up the transport tab for someone who wants to go on the piss or socialise??????

Because the government is responsible for the public transport infrastructure. It's woeful in the rural and urban areas here.

plonk

Your not getting it 13 pubs in 2006 closed in east galway. Rural pubs now only make money on weekend trade and even thats quiet of late. They charge less than pubs in the cities have less custom and are gettingshafted over it. The goverment have to do something or else every pub will be closed in 10 years. My village used to have 5 pubs and now has 3 and will be down to 2 fairly soon i think.

Maybe what there doing isnt the best idea but something has to be done IMO

bonkey

sovtek wrote:

If there were a better public transport system, in general, the drink driving would cease to be so widespread.

By this logic, the pubs only exist because people were willing to break the law in order to go drinking and are now threatened because fewer people are still willing to continue their illegal ways.

I'm not sure this is a good reason to argue for the protection of a "culture".

If the buses were being provided to combat drink-driving, I could understand that somewhat more and be somewhat more sympathetic...but its not whats happening. They're being suggested because the reduction in drink-driving has had an adverse effect on publicans.

Some cultures are best left in the past. Personally, I believe a drink-oriented society is one of them.

Because the government is responsible for the public transport infrastructure. It's woeful in the rural and urban areas here.

This I agree with. There is a case to be made to improve public transport in general.

Helping out the publicans ain't it....and I'd be highly skeptical if the proposed services will help Mary to the shops. I'll wait and see, but from the OP's quoted piece, I'd doubt it.

Zambia

So everyone seems agreed then no booze buses down the west.

I fail to see the piont in having a Pub in the middle of nowhere where no-one can get to it. Its a bad business model that should not be helped by goverment finance.

Drinking and driving unless a playstation is involved should not be mixed.

sovtek

bonkey wrote:

By this logic, the pubs only exist because people were willing to break the law in order to go drinking and are now threatened because fewer people are still willing to continue their illegal ways.

I'm not sure this is a good reason to argue for the protection of a "culture".

If the buses were being provided to combat drink-driving, I could understand that somewhat more and be somewhat more sympathetic...but its not whats happening. They're being suggested because the reduction in drink-driving has had an adverse effect on publicans.

Some cultures are best left in the past. Personally, I believe a drink-oriented society is one of them.

I dont' give a rats arse for the culture or the publicans either. I'm just suggesting a possible solution to the drink driving problem.

bonkey

sovtek wrote:

I dont' give a rats arse for the culture or the publicans either. I'm just suggesting a possible solution to the drink driving problem.

Whereas the minister is trying to sell it as a solution to the problems caused by a new lack of drink driving, if one is to go by the comments in the OP.

Has drink-driving seriously fallen off that much? If so, is there still a serious problem to be dealt with?

miju

plonk wrote:

My village used to have 5 pubs and now has 3 and will be down to 2 fairly soon i think.

you see this is the problem i think, why does a village need 5 pubs in the first place?

the amount of blink and you miss it villages i've been to where theres about 10 pubs in it is ridiculous and my point still stands why should country people have buses paid for them but people in Dublin must pay , obviously the same applies is reverse

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

The lost generation, a tragedy in modern Ireland...

What i meant is that these people have grown up not going to the pub. The pub is not part of their lives. The publicans would have to make a concerted effort to change this.

Deleted User wrote:

There is one in my area. Collects about 20 OAPs every couple of weeks. No 'pissheads'. These people live in remote areas. The bus brings them in for a few pints and drops them home. The suggestion that some farmer living 20 miles from the nearest village should host a 'garden party' is a good one, maybe they should go on their Bebo pages and rustle up a crowd...:rolleyes:

It's not just OAPs would be seeking to use the proposed system though. My uncle constantly moans at me about not being able to drive to the pub anymore. He's only in his 40s.

Colonel Sanders

are the people proposing this and defending the idea living in the real world? No one likes to see a business go under but why should publicans get more assistance and government sympathy than any other?

After Frankie Dettori's 'magnificent 7' at ascot several independant bookmakers went bust. Did these business men deserve a government hand out? People will shout 'but thats gambling not a business'. Starting any business is a gamble, including buying a pub.

Next we'll be giving out about leisure centres that make a few euros when a subsidised bus brings a load of special needs kids to their facility...

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

Next we'll be giving out about leisure centres that make a few euros when a subsidised bus brings a load of special needs kids to their facility...

Nobody told me about such a service. This is an outrage!!!

Leisure centres aren't the main proponents of those buses to be subsidised.

wow sierra

Deleted User wrote:

I'd rather they cut monies spent on roads around Dublin and used that tbh. After all, the rest of the country is supposed to have a bleeding heart for the people who decide to live in West Dublin and are then shocked at the level of traffic...

Brilliant Conor 74
I cant summon the energy to get involved in this argument again - its a classic urban/rural devide. Suffice to say everyone who lives in rural areas understand that this is a huge problem. Thats mostly what people are complaining about in rural areas these days - and that includes the local guards. I dont care what the politically correct version of this argument is. And the rediculous comment as to "why would you build a pub in the middle of nowhere" just shows the gulf of understanding here about the realities of rural life.

MadsL

I'd like to see a trade-off. You get you subsidised bus service mr publican, but we the tax payer would like that cosy monopoly back. Hello? Hello?

The VFI are the one of the last remaining monopolies. A monopoly on serving drink - this benefits us how exactly?