Please Act - Due by 29th January - Updated

Marcais

Mods, could you sticky this please for the miserable 2 weeks we have (it's very important to most people, it's being rushed through, and I don't want it to be lost in the Marina thread.)

People, the below is for anyone who wishes to object to the slightly amended Greystones Marina plan (instead of 375 apartments on the beach, there are 341).

If you want to express your views on the 900,000 tonne Marina Project, please do so on the Marina thread, not here.

Please forward as you wish and please do add your own views, making sure you include your name and address at the foot of your e-mail. note: due by 25 Jan, and this can still be stopped.

Send to Bord@pleanala.ie

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Subject: Residential, commercial and marina development at North Beach Greystones Co. Wicklow

Dear Sir/madam

Residential, commercial and marina development at North Beach Greystones Co. Wicklow

I oppose the granting of permission for the above development and the confirmation of the compulsory purchase orders required to facilitate the development based on the Additional Information submitted to the Board on 25th October 2006 for the reasons set out below.

Greystones harbour is the heart of the town and important amenity for its residents and for visitors. The community is united in wanting a sensitive refurbishment of the harbour, which enhances the character of the area. This development fails to achieve this and precludes any such development in the future. It is therefore unsustainable.

The development will have significant negative environmental impacts and constitutes improper planning and unsustainable development of the harbour and north beach area.

The residential and commercial component is excessive in size and will severely restrict the views to the north and west from the harbour area thereby destroying the amenity of the area.

The size and scale of the proposed buildings are completely out of keeping with the existing buildings. This will destroy the character of the harbour area.

The development will generate volumes of traffic, both during construction and after completion, which are well beyond the capacity of the existing road network.

The development involves the sale of a public beach for commercial development, against the wishes of the community. This is undemocratic and unacceptable and sets a dangerous precedent for the rest of the country.

The proposal to dig up and relocate part the dump is unacceptable. The dump should be removed completely.

The proposed beach nourishment program is impractical, economically and environmentally unsound and will cause permanent, significant disruption in the town.

The modifications included in the revised plans submitted on 25th October 2006 do not in any meaningful way address the concerns expressed by the community in their submissions of the original development or the issues raised at the previous oral hearing.

I therefore request that the Board refuse permission for this development. I also request that the Board holds an oral hearing and that I be given the opportunity to make representations at that hearing.

Name :



Address :

mikedragon32

Marcais,

Stickied until 25/1

Fiachra2

Folks, we have just scored a serious own goal by having the marina thread locked besause the objectors are fighting among themselves.

A certain country that shall remain nameless (because I have lots of sailing and rugby friends there many of whom are supporting the anti-marina campaign!) managed to keep this country subjugated for years in exactly that way!

The Marina developers will now be sitting back laughing at us.

Can we please try not to fight among ourselves. Some objectors to this development feel more strongly about it than others. some also express themselves with more exuberance than others. Lets try and live with that.

We have a major battle to fight and it doesnt just end on Jan 29th. We need to keep the topic alive and in the media while An Bord Pleanala is deciding what to do. And that could be months.

Thanks for all the effort to date. Lets keep it going.

matt-dublin

Just a note on this, the same letter sent from 2000 people will not be taken as 2000 individual complaints as far as i know. I believe this has happened before with the wicklow co co.

Fiachra2

matt-dublin wrote:

Just a note on this, the same letter sent from 2000 people will not be taken as 2000 individual complaints as far as i know. I believe this has happened before with the wicklow co co.

The workings of An Bord Pleanala are not explained to the public so we dont really know what they will view this. Based on limited information I think we can safely conclude theh following:
The Bord is used to dealing with this sort of thing an they will understand exactly what has happened ie that there was a well organised campaign to facilitate people making objections.
People do not sign objections readily so the fact that 6200 objections were received is a clear indication to the bord that pretty much anyone who got acesss to an objection letter signed it and that is a measure of the feeling in the town.
The Bord knows that most people -even when they feel strongly about something -dont put pen to paper so they are not expecting a big volumn of individual objections

The 6200 objections acted, essentially as a form of plebiscite conclusively demonstrating to the Bord that the vast majority of residents were opposed to the development. Given the limited time scale and the lack of clarity in the process we cannot expect anything like the same level of response. What is needed is a reasonably high level to show that the issue is still "hot" in the town (and elsewhere). So keep sending in those letters!!

Just a note on how Wicklow County Council handle these things. If you did produce 2000 lettters of objection they would claim that this was proof that the other 13000 residents of the town approved!!
Believe me I have watched them say that with a completely straight face!

dubsgirl

Just as an FYI this letter of objection due by today...

Marcais

dubsgirl wrote:

Just as an FYI this letter of objection due by today...

Sorry, or not sorry, not sure which, but he date has now been confirmed as 29th JANUARY

Cheers and thanks Dubgirl, I'd forgotten to ask for this to be updated but Fiachra2 mentions it below (or above, depending on your settings!)

Charlie-Bravo

I popped mine in the post yesterday...

Seeing as I objected to the first plan as I don't agree with the 'scale' of things, I don't see why reducing it by a handful of apartments is going to change my opinion on the issue.

OBJECTION SUBMITTED.

Fiachra2

Thanks for the support folks!

It has taken a while to get started but the objections are now flooding in. The final date is monday at 5Pm so if you can pursuade anyone over the weekend please do so.

Sparks

What are you up to now in terms of numbers Fiachra?

Fiachra2

Sparks wrote:

What are you up to now in terms of numbers Fiachra?

At the momemnt I havent a clue as there are forms being gathered all over the place.

Because of the confusion and the lack of time we wont get anything like the 6000 we got before but I think we will do pretty well. I will post the final figure on tuesday once we have it.

Fiachra2

The provisional figure from An Bord Pleanala is 3500 submissions on the new information on the Marina. There is an unconfirmed report that they had to set up a new office to process them. (Thats probably an overstatement!) However someone in there did confirm that the norm in a case such as this i,e. a request for additional information, would be less than 100 submissions. So that puts it in context.

Sparks

6000 the first time, 3500 this time with so little notice? In a country where we generally have a habit of not complaining? I don't see how the council can say they're representing the majority by pushing ahead with this, not with a straight face anyway.

Red Ford

Sparks wrote:

6000 the first time, 3500 this time with so little notice? In a country where we generally have a habit of not complaining? I don't see how the council can say they're representing the majority by pushing ahead with this, not with a straight face anyway.

A WORD OF GRATITUDE

I’ve have the pleasure of living in Greystones for 3 years and I’d like to express my gratitude to my neighbours and your neighbours who have highlighted that the public can have their say with an Bord Pleanala.

In all the leaflets sent through my door by Dererk Michell and the County Council and the comments from Greystones councillors in local papers they preclude any mention that the public can submit letters by 29th January.

I am very far from being a liberal and George Jones comments that the campaign to inform the public about their rights to make submissions is a cover for a political campaign, I find insulting in the extreme. A very dangerous tactic, Mr. Jones as you may just turn this political.

The submissions collected look like they are the only poll conducted with the people of Greystones and I would ask the councillors why they chose to insist that people want this Marina without taking the obvious steps to ask them what they thought?

Wouldn’t a poll be better use of our money that the numerous expensive leaflets pushed through our letterboxes (and not by the councillors)

My neighbours who called to my door are not usually ones who get involved in any campaigns but feel strongly about stopping this massive overdevelopment. I thank them again and everyone of you and your neighbours who unselfishlessly used their time to highlight these issues.

Fiachra2

An bord Pleanala have announced that they will reopen the oral hearing on the marina. This is apparently quite unusual and a positive step from the perspective of those who object to the development.

Date will be announced next week.

Marcais

Fiachra2 wrote:

An bord Pleanala have announced that they will reopen the oral hearing on the marina. This is apparently quite unusual and a positive step from the perspective of those who object to the development.

Date will be announced next week.

The Oral hearing is in the Royal Hotel Bray Thursday and Friday 29th and 30th March.

Unfortunately, not in Greystones, probably easier for the proponents to get to Bray than Greystones, although not ideal especially for most of us commuters, I'll be making an effort to be there.

Even if you are from Charlesland, you should try to attend and not be put off by FG Councillors comments such as "it is always the last people in who object to new developments" or that "30% of the objections came from Charlesland,..furthest from the harbour and the newest part..." this is verbatim, before any of the fringe go off their trolley, it was in the Wicklow Times and also said on East Coast. We are part of Greystones even if some would seek to disenfranchise us and include us with those from outside Greystones who objected to the Marina.

Drop in if you can, at anytime 10am to 5pm just to show your face, no need to speak!

Fiachra2

The Oral hearing lasted three days and finished this afternoon. Our view would be that it went very well from our pespective. I have no doubt however that some on the other side probably think the same!

Based on the quality of the evidence we produced, the failure of the council to challenge our evidence in any meaningful way and the inability of the Council to answer many of our questions, I think we did pretty well.

We probably wont get a decision for a few months.

Thanks to everyone who came in to support us.

Marcais

Fiachra2 wrote:

The Oral hearing lasted three days and finished this afternoon. Our view would be that it went very well from our pespective. I have no doubt however that some on the other side probably think the same!

Based on the quality of the evidence we produced, the failure of the council to challenge our evidence in any meaningful way and the inability of the Council to answer many of our questions, I think we did pretty well.

We probably wont get a decision for a few months.

Thanks to everyone who came in to support us.

Unfortunately, there is only one side that gets paid (by us!) to attend and I could only attend on Friday. Very impressive presentation by experts acquired by Greystones Protection and Development Asssociation, some of whom provided their services at reduced rates recognising the damage a precedent like this could cause. Don't know where GPDA came up with these guys, but they were excellent.

I was amazed at how a presentation by Greystones locals on such a low budget could stump the joint, heavily financed "expertise" of Wicklow County Council and Sispar on issues including traffic and health hazards that you would imagine they would have had answers to at the ready!

Hopefully we get the right ruling for Greystones.