I crashed

Membrane

Coming back from a 140Km ride to Slieve Maan and back to Dublin just a few minutes from home I had a crash today, just clipped a pedestrian's arm and down I went. Combined foot/cycle path separated by a solid line, pedestrian was walking in the cycle section going in the same direction as me. I thought I could just clear him, I was wrong. Pedestrian seems fine (kid ~10 years old walking with his parents), I have a sore and stiff knee, plenty of scrapes and bumps but by the looks of it nothing to serious, I'll probably be sore as hell tomorrow morning and for the following days. I lay dazed on the asphalt for a while (probably went over the bars, hit my head, no helmet), but I came round to my usual self again after a while (which some would say is a pity I haven't looked at my bike in detail yet, luckily it's a cheapish hybrid jobbie from Halfords.

My guess is that the blame lies with me, the pedestrian shouldn't have been there, but that doesn't give me the right to crash into him. I'm not looking for legal advice, but in case anyone thinks that I might be wrong please say so.

Ok so, I'm now bracing myself for the slagging I'm going to get

Skellington

Membrane wrote:

Ok so, I'm now bracing myself for the slagging I'm going to get

Why? The kids gob****e parents should of known better than to be walking on a cycle path. You tried and failed (badly:p ) to get around them. You did nothing wrong. Maybe next time try to slow down a lot more when passing idiots so you can control the bike if you hit anything. I learned that lesson the hard way aswell:(

Victor

Got a bell?

Membrane

Victor wrote:

Got a bell?

I took it off in a vain attempt to get rid of all non essentials to save (a tiny bit) of weight. Not having a bell was a contributing factor, I had the choice between:

Jumping off the curb onto the road (which was clear)
Closing up behind them, braking and saying "excuse me"
Or go for the gap

I didn't fancy the height of the curb, arrogantly I didn't want to loose my speed by braking and asking for something which I felt entitled to, so I decided to go for the gap.

If the bike can be repaired the bell will go back on, and I'll adjust the attitude.

roadmanmad

If you had persued with the issue.

Yes, they were in the wrong by being in your designated zone.

But due diligence dictates you avoid or brake. They could not see you, you could see them.

At least you walked away. Chalk it up.

Bluefoam

I had an accident a couple of years back on a motorcycle, where I was in a cycle lane, A car turned across my path from the opposite lane and I went into the side of his car. i couldn't see him as there was a stationery car to my right.

I won the insurance case because he did not take due care. The arguement by my legal advisor was that if I was a cyclist I would have had the same accident and it was his responsibility to look where he was going and take due care.

It seems to me that you should have taken due care, but at least no one was badly hurt & its probbly a good learning experience. Hope the bike is okay.

Victor

Bluefoam, were you a pedestrian?

Bluefoam

Victor wrote:

Bluefoam, were you a pedestrian?

Sorry, motorcycle

RainyDay

Did it throw you off balance or what? I would have thought that a fast, adult cyclist would do more damage to the pedestrian, not other way round?

Ghost Rider

You're honest enough to admit there were safer options than hoping you'd miss the pedestrians, so I must say I sympathise. Besides, the kid's dunderheaded parents should have had enough cop to know you don't walk on a cycle path, let alone encourage your supposedly precious offspring to do so. Sounds like high muppetry to me.

Membrane wrote:

I took it off in a vain attempt to get rid of all non essentials to save (a tiny bit) of weight. Not having a bell was a contributing factor, I had the choice between:

Jumping off the curb onto the road (which was clear)
Closing up behind them, braking and saying "excuse me"
Or go for the gap

I didn't fancy the height of the curb, arrogantly I didn't want to loose my speed by braking and asking for something which I felt entitled to, so I decided to go for the gap.

If the bike can be repaired the bell will go back on, and I'll adjust the attitude.

daymobrew

roadmanmad wrote:

Yes, they were in the wrong by being in your designated zone.

But due diligence dictates you avoid or brake. They could not see you, you could see them.

I agree with this.
Think about If it were a jaywalking pedestrian and a car: the pedestrian would be considered a fool for jaywalking, but the driver would be at fault for hitting them.

I hope your head is okay.

Membrane wrote:

Coming back from a 140Km ride to Slieve Maan and back to Dublin

Training for the Wicklow 200 already!

robfitz

Membrane wrote:

Coming back from a 140Km ride to Slieve Maan and back to Dublin just a few minutes from home I had a crash today, just clipped a pedestrian's arm and down I went. Combined foot/cycle path separated by a solid line, pedestrian was walking in the cycle section going in the same direction as me. I thought I could just clear him, I was wrong.

Where did this happen? Can you get photos?

Bunnyhopper

Does anyone know what the legal situation actually is wrt a pedestrian walking out in front of you on a cycle path? (I know the situation the op is talking about is slightly different.) I'd presume that you have the same rights and obligations (mutatis mutandis and all that) as a driver on a road would in a comparable situation, but then that might be too sensible a presumption (after all, this is Irish law and cyclists we're talking about...).

On a related point, does anyone know where or how I could get a list of cycle paths that have been declared to be cycle paths by local authorities under the terms of the Roads Act? Do Councils maintain lists? (Again, that might just be too sensible...)

I'd have thought that if a path has bikes painted on it but hasn't been declared a cycle path under the Roads Act then it's not really a cycle path and so the mandatory use nonsense wouldn't apply, but your rights in case of a collision might also be affected. Any personal accident solicitors reading this?

I asked the OPW about the paths in the Phoenix Park (the ones that usually have pedestrians all over them) but of course they didn't answer the questions.

Mucco

Someone here said that these shared-use lanes don't have any legal definition (posted a few months ago). I know in the UK that the cyclist has to give way, correctly in my opinion.
I think signage is the important thing as to whether a cycle lane is legally a cycle lane or not, but I could be wrong.
I still adopt the attitude that all cycle lanes are a waste of time.

M

robfitz

Bunnyhopper wrote:

On a related point, does anyone know where or how I could get a list of cycle paths that have been declared to be cycle paths by local authorities under the terms of the Roads Act? Do Councils maintain lists? (Again, that might just be too sensible...)

The council will have the information in the their CAD programs, but you would have a very hard time getting the info (FOI?).

The following basic information should just be available in the council offices.

Roads Act, 1993 Section 10
...
( 5 ) ( a ) A road authority shall keep a schedule and map of all public roads in respect of which it has responsibility.
( b ) A road authority shall prepare the schedule and map as soon as practicable after the commencement of this section and shall take all reasonable measures to keep the schedule and map up to date.
( c ) The schedule and map shall be kept at the offices of the road authority and shall be available for inspection during office hours.
( d ) The schedule and map may be kept otherwise than in a legible form provided that the information contained therein is capable of being reproduced in a legible form.
( e ) Articles 85, 86 and 87 of the Public Bodies Order, 1946 are hereby revoked.
...

Bunnyhopper wrote:

I'd have thought that if a path has bikes painted on it but hasn't been declared a cycle path under the Roads Act then it's not really a cycle path and so the mandatory use nonsense wouldn't apply, but your rights in case of a collision might also be affected. Any personal accident solicitors reading this?

A cycle track requires a single or double solid or broken white line road marking and cycle track road sign.

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) Regulations, 1998
...
'cycle track' means part of a road, including part of a footway or part of a roadway, which is provided primarily for the use of pedal cycles ;
...
14. (1) A cycle track shall be indicated by traffic sign number RUS 009 or RUS 009A provided in association with traffic sign number RRM 022 (continuous white line) or RRM023 (broken white line) which latter signs may be marked on the right-hand edge of the cycle track or on the right-hand and left-hand edges of the cycle track.
(2) The periods of operation of a cycle track may be indicated on an information plate which may be provided in association with traffic sign number RUS 009 or RUS 009A.
...

seamus

Came off myself this morning. Switching from road to on-path cycle track, my front wheel slid sideways on the ramp/kerb. Hit the ground face-first at 22mph (had looked at my speedo a few second before it happened). 5 stitches in my lip, cuts all over my face, bruised ego

That particular bit of cycle track is a little bit of a death trap. You have to get up on the path initially and then 50m later attempt to rejoin the road by crossing over a filter lane. I think I'm just going to use the road in future and ignore the cycle track at that point.

Membrane

robfitz wrote:

Where did this happen? Can you get photos?

Rathfarnham, Lower Dodder Road.

I wasn't in any significant doubt about the legalities of the situation before, I've now fully accepted that it was 100% my own fault. I'm counting my blessings, although I'm currently immobilised with my right knee sore as hell and out of action, it could have been a lot worse. Father of the family out walking drove me home, very nice of him to do so. Folks on the point of the road where I crashed took me inside for a cuppa to regain my senses (I didn't really know where I was initialy).

seamus wrote:

Came off myself this morning. Switching from road to on-path cycle track, my front wheel slid sideways on the ramp/kerb. Hit the ground face-first at 22mph (had looked at my speedo a few second before it happened). 5 stitches in my lip, cuts all over my face, bruised ego

Ouch! Very sorry to hear about your off seamus, sounds well painful. Have had a few occasions myself where I was thinking "I hope my tyre won't slip on that bit of kerb" when going onto a cycle path. I'm afraid it is just one of the many poorly planned or executed facilities we have to learn how to deal with here.

robfitz

Membrane wrote:

Rathfarnham, Lower Dodder Road.

Has the cycle track been extend? I have these photos from 2005 * * * *.

robfitz

seamus wrote:

That particular bit of cycle track is a little bit of a death trap. You have to get up on the path initially and then 50m later attempt to rejoin the road by crossing over a filter lane.

Where?

cunnins4

Is that the cycle track that goes from the river up the hill past the yellow house and around towards nutgrove? That one's useless. on and off over curbs every 50 yards. i have the inconvenience of having to use it once a week or so on the way out to my girlfriends. it's crap.

seamus

robfitz wrote:

Where?

On the coldcut road, going in towards town. Just after you cross the M50, the road dips down (hence how I managed to build up so much speed), there's a bus lane, and when the bus lane merges back into the rest of road, the cycle track begins.

Membrane

robfitz wrote:

Has the cycle track been extend? I have these photos from 2005 * * * *.

That's the spot alright, it's not been extended. Bizarre example of a break in the seperation in a cycle and predestrian section shown on the third of your images, only in Ireland. I crashed on a section where cyclists and pedestrians are separated.

Traumadoc

I did a medical report for a patient who is taking an action against a county council over the design of the cycle path. On a road trying to get onto a new cycle path- there was a 2 inch "step" and due to his "angle of approach" and the thin cycle wheels,his momentum was taking him one way, his bike was going the other - ended up out of work for 3 months.

Gavin

Yeah, I find those poorly designed lips extremely dangerous. There is no way you can take them at speed, you have to slow right down, get the bike as perpendicular to them as possible before hopping up on them.

It's really annoying and bloody scary when you can feel the back tire sliding along behind you, not mounting the kerb.

Civilian_Target

People actually try and mount them?! I assumed they were for the brave/stupid - a way of reducing Dublin's cyclist population!