Rabbite signals FF Coalition possible...

...at last realpolitik may be breaking through.

From the Examiner...

Rabbitte gives mixed signals about coalition deal with FF

Labour Party leader Pat Rabbitte has given mixed signals about whether or not he and his party would be willing to enter a coalition government with Fianna Fáil.

Mr Rabbitte has previously insisted that he would never lead the party into such an alliance.

However, the situation is mired in uncertainty this morning following a number of interviews given by the Labour leader over the weekend.

He told RTÉ Radio that he would not go into coalition with Fianna Fáil after the next election, but then refused to say if he would remain on as leader if the party decided in favour of such an alliance.

He also said such a decision could only be made on the basis of a motion put forward by the party leader and he had no intention of putting forward such a motion "unless the circumstances were right".

In an interview with the Irish Independent, meanwhile, he refused to rule out a coalition deal with Fianna Fail, saying he would have to take the national interest into account.

The newspaper says Mr Rabbitte acknowledged that he may have to rethink his strategy if the only likely alternative is to hold a second general election.

partholon

i cant help thinking rabbitte would be better off using the greens tactic in regards to this issue.

worst comes to worst we will go in but on our terms.

as it stands he's dancing around the issue that makes people suspicous. personally i got shafted by labour before so i fully expect em to go into power with em, after all this is politics.

one other question though, how come no ones asking the question will enda go into power with SF if the figures add up. he's flatly denied it but like pat i wouldnt be surprised if he did. after all its not a million mile away from them going into power with democrat left all those years ago:D

gandalf

Well was just listening to Ruiari Quinn on Newstalk and the Indo did a halchet job on this by editing Pat Rabbittes responses. Looks like "Sir" Tony has thrown the oar in with Fianna Fail for the next election.

The unedited answers are on the labour website. http://www.labour.ie/blog/archive/2007/01/15/what-pat-actually-said/

Must say I hadn't read the papers at all (least of all the Indo) and heard his interview at lunchtime yesterday on RTE Radio 1. And he certainly didn't seem to be ruling out coalition with FF when he spoke about circumstances being right. Googled it today, found Examiner link.

ballooba

This is typical of the tripe put out by the Independent Newspaper Group for years. I don't know why people still buy their papers, they have completely miconstrued what Rabitte said. It is pretty much impossible to draw the conclusions they have from the answers Rabitte gave.

Tony Ryan has decided to keep FF/FG in power, who knows what his reasons are but given that he controls the biggest newspaper in the country he has a lot of power over what happens.

partholon

i wouldnt go that far. i think the days of the newspapers influencing how people will vote are long gone. theres just way too many media outlets out there to choose from now that they dont have the monopoly on reporting anymore

gandalf

TBH I believe this is a non story for one basic reason an awful lot of labour members & supporters remember what happened to them after they jumped into bed with FF last time. They got destroyed in the next election. I left the party after they confirmed they were going into coalition with FF, why because I felt they betrayed the people who voted for them. Every house I canvassed said they were voting Labour to get FF out and then Labour went and threw their vote and wishes back into their faces.

I believe they are still paying the price for that foolish match up and it may cost them in the next election still.

My real coalition worry is that Sinn Fein will get in with FF. Bertie will do anything to stay in power and that includes giving Gerry Adams and his cohort a shoe into government.

sceptre

gandalf wrote:

The unedited answers are on the labour website. http://www.labour.ie/blog/archive/2007/01/15/what-pat-actually-said/

The way I interpret the questions (which, after all, are just as interesting as the answers) is that they expected a "no" to the first question - look at the phrasing of the second one.

ballooba

partholon wrote:

i wouldnt go that far. i think the days of the newspapers influencing how people will vote are long gone. theres just way too many media outlets out there to choose from now that they dont have the monopoly on reporting anymore

For your average Joe Soap, print media is still their number one source for current affairs. TV and Radio falling close behind.

The vast majority of people don't read the internet for news.

sceptre wrote:

The way I interpret the questions (which, after all, are just as interesting as the answers) is that they expected a "no" to the first question - look at the phrasing of the second one.

He has already answered the question several times. They are not going to get a yes or no answer.

I don't believe that labour would go into government with FF. Definitely not with Pat Rabitte as leader.

Going into government with FF would have very negative consequences for Labour in the long run. Consequently, I can't see any potential successor to Pat Rabitte opting to do so.

mickd

Rabbitte was on Pat Kenny this morning he restated his aim of getting FF/PD out of power but refused to rule out coalition with FF. Kenny asked simple yes/no answer which Rabbitte refused to give. One thing is clear from all this is that the majority of people don't want FG governing the country. If they were capable of garnering any decent level of support then none of this speculation would exist.

HelterSkelter

I was considering voting for Labour this year but if they are even half-considering going in with FF then they have lost my vote. I want those shower of arrogant muppets (FF) out of Government altogether. Seems like Labour are selling out to me.

Sleepy

Are politicians in this country interested in issues or simply being in power?

MontgomeryClift

FF media control seems to be so powerful that we have the likes of Pat Kenny and Vincent Browne doing their work for them now, trying to force Pat Rabbitte to admit he likes his opposition after all. And this is before the election and with polls showing the present government with such a lead that they would not need Labour support. Such determination to get an absolute answer for the occurrence of a hypothetical and increasingly unlikely situation!

MontgomeryClift

MontgomeryClift wrote:

FF media control seems to be so powerful that we have the likes of Pat Kenny and Vincent Browne doing their work for them now

Yes, because asking a question before an election like 'would you as leader of the third biggest party go into coalition with the biggest party if the numbers add up' would ONLY be posed after massive backhanders to journos. :rolleyes:

It seems the anti-FF lobby is so consumed by its hatred that they think asking a screamingly obvious question must be evidence of some agenda by Bertie...

J.S. Pill

gandalf wrote:

TBH I believe this is a non story for one basic reason an awful lot of labour members & supporters remember what happened to them after they jumped into bed with FF last time. They got destroyed in the next election. I left the party after they confirmed they were going into coalition with FF, why because I felt they betrayed the people who voted for them. Every house I canvassed said they were voting Labour to get FF out and then Labour went and threw their vote and wishes back into their faces.

I believe they are still paying the price for that foolish match up and it may cost them in the next election still.

Think I'd do the same. I was even considering helping out with the campaign this year but I'd have some serious reservations now.

Anyone got a link to that indo article?

ballooba

mickd wrote:

One thing is clear from all this is that the majority of people don't want FG governing the country.

How exactly is that clear?

There is no such thing as voting for who you don't want to get into Dail Eireann. It's not Big Brother. :rolleyes:

HelterSkelter wrote:

I was considering voting for Labour this year but if they are even half-considering going in with FF then they have lost my vote. I want those shower of arrogant muppets (FF) out of Government altogether. Seems like Labour are selling out to me.

As Pat Rabitte has said, repeatedly, he has no intention of going into government with Fianna Fail. The last time Labour did this they were seriously damaged.

The Irish Independent are trying to undermine Labour and also the FG/Lab pact. They ran a front page article on Graham Geraghty getting a red card against Louth last monday. How petty can you get.

I think Pat Rabitte is quite right not to play their silly little game. Pat Rabitte will never lead his party into coalition with Fianna Fail.

MontgomeryClift wrote:

And this is before the election and with polls showing the present government with such a lead that they would not need Labour support. Such determination to get an absolute answer for the occurrence of a hypothetical and increasingly unlikely situation!

That is a lie. Recent polls would indicate that a PD/FF coalition will not be possible. The PDs are unlikely to be in government next time round.

Recent Polls would also indicate that PDs may not even be in the Dail next year.

You may have drawn the above assumptions from the IMS poll which was published over the weekend. This is only one poll and IMS is famously unreliable.

Deleted User wrote:

Yes, because asking a question before an election like 'would you as leader of the third biggest party go into coalition with the biggest party if the numbers add up' would ONLY be posed after massive backhanders to journos. :rolleyes:

Quite right. Bertie does not need to control the Indo. Tony O'Reilly has his own agenda. He still has a bee in his bonnet over the Rainbow government denying him a mobile phone licence. It's a pity so many people buy his rags.

gandalf

Well looking at the two broadsheets today (ok calling the Indo a broadsheet is stretching the imagination).

The Independent/FF Gazette - Howlin breaks ranks over Labour's poll pact with FG

The Irish Times - Rabbitte says he wants FF out of office

Sir Toady is onto a promise of some kind from Bertie or maybe Sam Smyth has been out for a few drinkies too many with Herr Flick.

Its amazing that a junior minister is caught sending letters asking for a pervert kiddy fiddler to be freed*, that story is buried inside the FF Gazette and all they can do is fabricate a non story like this.

(*Oh sorry someone on his staff sent it in error and the files from that period we deleted in a "maintenance error" :rolleyes:)

Time Magazine

Hmm, could this be a ploy?

Doubts over Labour => increased votes/transfers to the "real" opposition party Fine Gael (by real I mean there's no way they'll be in with FF) => greater chance of a FG/Labour govt => no chance of greater anger at Labour for entering with FF?

Where's my tin-foil hat?

ballooba

ballooba wrote:

Pat Rabitte will never lead his party into coalition with Fianna Fail.

And why does he find it so hard to say the words then?

Múinteoir

partholon wrote:

i cant help thinking rabbitte would be better off using the greens tactic in regards to this issue.

It didn't work in 2002 so why would that tactic work any better now? Especially when FG is much more resurgent now than it was in 2002.

ballooba

Ibid wrote:

Hmm, could this be a ploy?

Don't let anyone kid you into thinking The Independent Newspaper Group is anything other than anti-rainbow. They ran a famous editorial in June 1997 outlining their position entitled "It's Payback Time".

One might suggest that, as FG had them and the Times in their pockets for 60 years, no harm to see it go around every now and again...

Time Magazine

ballooba wrote:

Don't let anyone kid you into thinking The Independent Newspaper Group is anything other than anti-rainbow. They ran a famous editorial in June 1997 outlining their position entitled "It's Payback Time".

I know, but the whole Howlin thing.

gandalf

Deleted User wrote:

One might suggest that, as FG had them and the Times in their pockets for 60 years, no harm to see it go around every now and again...

Ah so you admit the Indo story is pure bull**** then

ballooba

Deleted User wrote:

One might suggest that, as FG had them and the Times in their pockets for 60 years, no harm to see it go around every now and again...

Some might agree that the The Irish Times is a little less one sided and a little more reliable in their reporting.

Some might say The Indo is pretty much a tabloid, others might say that it just is. That they're running with a compact edition only serves to reinforce this idea.

Ibid wrote:

I know, but the whole Howlin thing.

I'm not sure which Howlin thing you are referring to.

Deleted User wrote:

And why does he find it so hard to say the words then?

He has been quite clear on this. Why would he open himself up to a debate on what a potential successor as leader of the party would do.

partholon wrote:

one other question though, how come no ones asking the question will enda go into power with SF if the figures add up. he's flatly denied it but like pat i wouldnt be surprised if he did. after all its not a million mile away from them going into power with democrat left all those years ago:D

For one thing, Sinn Fein could never go into power with Fine Gael because Fine Gael are historically the Treaty party. This is also why you won't be seeing a 32 county Fine Gael anytime soon.

Sleepy wrote:

Are politicians in this country interested in issues or simply being in power?

You can't exactly have much influence on or impact on issues unless you have power.

KerranJast

ballooba wrote:

For one thing, Sinn Fein could never go into power with Fine Gael because Fine Gael are historically the Treaty party. This is also why you won't be seeing a 32 county Fine Gael anytime soon.

Plus the fact that a lot of Fine Gael supporters are from Garda/Defense Forces backgrounds and, rightly IMO, despise SF over their attempts to get Jerry McCabes killers out early.

I'd say there could very well be a hung Dail out of all this. It's a hell of a look more likely that FF/PDs getting back as is or FG/Labour/Greens getting enough numbers. I'd be expecting Bertie to deal with anyone including SF and/or a ragtag bunch of Independents to try and stay in power.

ballooba

As was said on Questions and Answers (link), Fianna Fail will have no option but to consider a deal with Sinn Fein to stay in power. The PDs won't have the(/any?) seats and no one else will get into bed with them.


Even if PDs maintained their current numbers, which they won't, it would not be enough to support an even slightly dented Fianna Fail.

LostinBlanch

So a vote for the PDs is a vote for FF and SF? I'd like to see herr flick square that circle.

ballooba

LostinBlanch wrote:

So a vote for the PDs is a vote for FF and SF? I'd like to see herr flick square that circle.

PDs will not be in government after the GE. They are irrelevant.

I'm not sure if SF people would have much time for FF?

The_Minister

LostinBlanch wrote:

So a vote for the PDs is a vote for FF and SF? I'd like to see herr flick square that circle.

Mary Harney said that the PDs would not go into government with FF if they were supported by SF. I really doubt that McDowell has changed that position.

oscarBravo

ballooba wrote:

...IMS is famously unreliable.

I just spotted this. Got anything to back it up?