Eircom relax their DSL test again, more passes

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

I'd expect that will make a lot on crappy dialup happier but maybe not satisfied. Flatrate quad ISDN is better than dialup.

That's like saying that walking with one leg is better than crawling.
Neither of which is acceptable..

E.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

That's like saying that walking with one leg is better than crawling.
Neither of which is acceptable..

Getting broadband into an exchange and getting it to a customer is better than them having nothing. The rest of the dozens of issues can be worked on after that.

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

Getting broadband into an exchange and getting it to a customer is better than them having nothing. The rest of the dozens of issues can be worked on after that.

But are they enabling exchanges that weren't enabled?
I don't see any sign of that...

E.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

Does that man that you have it but us mere mortals can't see it?

And you said you read my blog! There's no independent product, you can only get this if your line fails so they are making sure you first have a bloody line so they gouge you with line rental and then they charge the same price as the DSL products although they won't say yet what the speeds are. They also catch you with an install fee which has not yet been disclosed.

Sponge Bob

That install fee has historically been , and still is , € 732.05 (inc. VAT) / € 605 (ex. VAT) for the single eircom wireless bb product which is currently pre pre pre wimax (ie not wimax at all at all all )

While eircom now allow you to order a line with / line for BB they have not yet clearly announced whether they consider their newer unreleased wimax product to be a line substitute at line install rates (€129 inc vat) or a separate product at the historic price.

€600 difference is a big variable . I would personally hesitate to make any categoric comment that would or could commit any boards reader to an extra expenditure of €600 at this point in time.

mayhem#

damien.m wrote:

And you said you read my blog! There's no independent product, you can only get this if your line fails so they are making sure you first have a bloody line so they gouge you with line rental and then they charge the same price as the DSL products although they won't say yet what the speeds are. They also catch you with an install fee which has not yet been disclosed.

Relax...
I was only referring to the pricing of Eircom's wimax product.
Are they subsidising/providing the CPE or does the customer have to purchase this seperately?

E.

mcaul

Slaanesh wrote:

No bleedin' use to me out in the stix. Crossing my fingers for 3 3g access.

what area do you live in? - I have a fair bit of travelling to do over the next couple of weeks (mainly Leinster & north Munster) and will have laptop & 3 3G service with me - if I'm anywhere near your area I can check it out and report back.

Sponge Bob

there are 2 products in the pipeline , minimum 2.

technically they may be similar ...or not.

1. is for the 5 main urban centres as a line substitute under certain circumstances
2. is for the rest of us

no prices or terms or caqtegoric linkages have been released that I know of , Damiens blog is ummmmmm unsearchable but you could click thru this lot

http://www.irishblogs.ie/?s=wimax&sort=date&posts_per_page=30&feed=rss2

uncle_sam_ie

Well,its seems none of my neighbors can get BB. I guess having an ISDN line is what saved me from not getting a fail.Is an ISDN copper line different from what they would have? My line Attenuation is 61/31 dB and my speed is 1.69Mbps down, 112kbps up(it's a lot better than I was expecting).

Sponge Bob

damn fast for 61db .

uncle_sam_ie

Sponge Bob wrote:

damn fast for 61db .

Would the fact that there might not be as many people using BB out here make it go faster?

kaizersoze

uncle_sam_ie wrote:

Well,its seems none of my neighbors can get BB. I guess having an ISDN line is what saved me from not getting a fail.Is an ISDN copper line different from what they would have? My line Attenuation is 61/31 dB and my speed is 1.69Mbps down, 112kbps up(it's a lot better than I was expecting).

The only difference is you'd have a nice clean line back to the exchange, no splitters. Your neighbours are probably pairgained to the hilt.

uncle_sam_ie

kaizersoze wrote:

The only difference is you'd have a nice clean line back to the exchange, no splitters. Your neighbours are probably pairgained to the hilt.

I'm also wondering when their lines were put in. They look very antiquated.

lucernarian

If all the rest of the neighbours fail and you have only 61 dB attenuation it's nearly certainly because of pairgains. It seems like Eircom high-speed had it's uses after all:p

If the wiring is older there is the risk of old or failing junction boxes or cables, but the cables could also be thicker than newer cables. You could tell you have no neighbours with DSL with such a high speed for 61 dB. That's one very good line.

Btw, Could you tell me the Signal Margin or Signal to Noise ratio (specify which) in the modem diagnostics?? I'm very interested to see what a line of that length can do.

uncle_sam_ie

To_be_confirmed wrote:

If all the rest of the neighbours fail and you have only 61 dB attenuation it's nearly certainly because of pairgains. It seems like Eircom high-speed had it's uses after all:p

If the wiring is older there is the risk of old or failing junction boxes or cables, but the cables could also be thicker than newer cables. You could tell you have no neighbours with DSL with such a high speed for 61 dB. That's one very good line.

Btw, Could you tell me the Signal Margin or Signal to Noise ratio (specify which) in the modem diagnostics?? I'm very interested to see what a line of that length can do.

Is this what you want? Success rate is 100 percent (4/4)
round-trip min/avg/max = 160/180/230 msec
crc errors down 190 / up 0
db Downstream 8.00 / upstream 6.00 - are they good or bad? It has never disconneted on me.

uncle_sam_ie

Their lines look wide and thick almost like tape. Mine is a round cable which was stung new from the exchange. Well, thats what the eircom tech told me at the time. I wonder if my line was stung at a shorter distance from the exchange. Theirs could be going all over the place. What do pairgains look like?

Sponge Bob

log into modem, diagnostics and dsl stats upstream and downstream . how long is that line again ..we are curious at how far out the 2mb package works you will gather

max speed for 2mb is actually 1.7 mb down because of overhead so you are full speed eircom 2mb your upstream is not as good, giz the stats from diagnostics there too

uncle_sam_ie

Downstream
Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps)
2048
256
SN Margin (dB)
8.00
6.00
Line Attenuation (dB)
61.00
31.50
CRC Errors
231
0
I just tested my speed and it was 1.60Mbs down 104 kbps up ( tested on internetfrog)
Pinging 163.176.4.31
Received reply
Received reply
Received reply
Received reply
Success rate is 100 percent (4/4)
round-trip min/avg/max = 160/162/170 msec

So, is this good or bad?

lucernarian

If that's the signal margin then that's OK. I'm suprised at the lowish upload speed as that is meant to be a better signal than the download (lower atttenuation, 31 instead of 61). The lower signal margin value for the upload could be a clue though.

Another thought is that mabye eircom changed the way the new 24000 people who passed can connect. The download speed could be unlimited, as they might presume they can only use 1 Mbit or less. But if 1.69 Mbits is the average figure for a 2 Mbit line then that's unlikely. Edit: Your max allowed figures just posted rule out this possibility.

Eircom's calculations for 61 dB attenuation on ordinary wire is about 5 km. But you would have passed the broadband test before now?? The old limit was 66 dB, the new one is 80 dB at most.

uncle_sam_ie

this is the result from internetfrog
Download: 1,608,576 bps
Upload: 105,200 bps
QOS: 83%
RTT: 157 ms
MaxPause: 271 ms

Sponge Bob

here is a technical explanation of snr and stuff

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats.htm

your downstream and upstream snr margin (both) is very tight and you are showing crc errors

your pings are slow, try ping www.boards.ie , this is what my 2mb line does

Ping statistics for 82.195.136.250:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 32ms, Maximum = 34ms, Average = 32ms

but hey if it it works

uncle_sam_ie

To_be_confirmed wrote:

Eircom's calculations for 61 dB attenuation on ordinary wire is about 5 km. But you would have passed the broadband test before now?? The old limit was 66 dB, the new one is 80 dB at most.

Ya, I wonder why too. I actually thought I was about four miles from the exchange. If I get into my car and follow the line as best as I can, I get 3.4 miles. But, it's the country so the line could be cutting through a field.I don't know. I'm just glad I won't have to sell my house now.

uncle_sam_ie

Pinging www.boards.ie
Received reply
Received reply
Received reply
Received reply
Success rate is 100 percent (4/4)
round-trip min/avg/max = 10/12/20 msec

uncle_sam_ie

Second speed test
Download: 1,644,920 bps
Upload: 105,088 bps
QOS: 98%
RTT: 154 ms
MaxPause: 38 ms
third test
Download: 1,702,032 bps
Upload: 115,512 bps
QOS: 99%
RTT: 126 ms
MaxPause: 10 ms

Sponge Bob

3.4 miles is nearly 6 km

2mbits at over 5.5km, now there is a change for eircom , it would mean 1mbit as far aout as 7km ( I had heard 6.7km)

uncle_sam_ie

Sponge Bob wrote:

3.4 miles is nearly 6 km

2mbits at over 5.5km, now there is a change for eircom , it would mean 1mbit as far aout as 7km ( I had heard 6.7km)

But, only if you had an ISDN line right?

Sponge Bob

An isdn line guarantees a clean connection back to the exchange, a normal line is a lottery , usually crappy and split to hell with others .

Therefore a person living 2 or 3 miles out and with ISDN today has a far better chance of getting DSL .

uncle_sam_ie

Sponge Bob wrote:

An isdn line guarantees a clean connection back to the exchange, a normal line is a lottery , usually crappy and split to hell with others .

Therefore a person living 2 or 3 miles out and with ISDN today has a far better chance of getting DSL .

How much does eircom charge to put in a clean line or will they do it at all?

Prisoner6409

I doubt they would do it all the way back to the exchange. I know my line(crappy/old) comes from the Blanch exchange and stops off in at least 2 junction boxs(the green eircom cubbord like box's on the side of the road) before the line runs to me. I'm not sure what getting a new line actually means, does it mean they will run a new bit of wire from the pole outside the house to the house, does it mean they will run a new line from the house back to the first eircom box or does it actually mean a line all the way back to the exchange, I doubt this given that most of the cabeling is underground but I am not sure.

uncle_sam_ie

Well, the eircom tech did say to me that he did string my ISDN line all the way from the exchange. That was six years ago though. The only other person I know of that had an ISDN line was the chemist is the village. When the exchange was upgraded last March, his was the only line that seemed to be passing. He is two miles from the exchange and I'm about a little less then a mile from him. There were a lot of lines failing back then. It better now though. I just wonder if my neighbors ever want to get BB will they need get an ISDN line put in first then after a month order BB. It seems crazy.