Summonses

Vikings

Hi guys,

Last wednesday night was very unpleasantly surprised when I got a knock on the door by a Garda handing me a summons, I wondered what the hell it was for as to the best of my knowledge I had done nothing wrong!

Anyway, turns out the 4 sheets on the summons are as follows:

Failure to produce license within 10 days
Driving without license
Non display of Disc
Driving without tax

I was stopped at a checkpoint last May 1st and had no tax at the time - car was off the road from Feb - Apr 28th, got car taxes + backtaxed a month on May 12th. I had a broken wrist which is why the car was off the road, only got my insurance on April 28th which is when I started driving it, when I got my full insurance disc in the post I taxed the car that day (May 12th)

Anyway back at the checkpoint the Garda asked to see my insurance details only which I showed her, she then told me to show my license within 10 days and all would be ok and to get the car taxed - both of which I did. About a week later I went to celbridge garda station with my license and they photocopied it and wrote it down and sent me on my way. That was the last I had hear of it until last wednesday when I got the summons.

Now i've talked to the gardai in celbridge and the garda in lucan who issued the summons to me and both of them are making out that I have to make the court appearance though the issuing garda said she would have the driving without license struck out along with the non display one because I did show it in celbridge garda station, I asked her was there any way in which I wouldnt have to attend the court and she basically made out that I would have to go but it would be thrown out.

Im just wondering what happens next, is there any way I can get out of the court date? Considering driving without tax is only a fineable offence isnt it? I have no problem taking any and all punishment from this as I know I should not have been driving without tax in the first place but im just wondering if there is anything I can do now apart from turn up at court and hope for the best? Thanks

Kimbot

Speak to the Superintendant of the issuing garda and tell him that:

A: you produced.
B: You were taxed.
C: why do you have to goto court!!

Fey!

It's the local (station that gave you the fine) district office you need to deal with, AFAIK. I think that once the individual garda issues the ticket/sends a summons, then they can't get it cancelled as everything is centralised.

Maybe one or two of the friendly gardai on here can confirm.

Vikings

Thats the thing, I didn't receive any sort of fine or anything like that, just the summons at the door last week.

I went to see the Garda that issued it on Monday night and she searched the computer again using my details and the Reg of the car but could not find any sort of information confirming I had produced my license, which is why I am confused.

I went to Celbridge to see if they could look it up and was told if she couldn't find it neither could they and they wouldn't even look up the date in the book they have on the counter which should have had it as I saw the Garda who I gave my license to write the info down.

If its a case that nothing can be done then I don't mind turning up as according to everyone i've talked to about it, gardai included, told me it would probably be thrown out but I would just rather not have to take the time off work as I have only just recently (2 months) started a new job.

Guy:Incognito

jonny24ie wrote:

B: You were taxed.

He wasnt. He was stopped on the 1st of may and got the tax on the 12th.

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Thats the thing, I didn't receive any sort of fine or anything like that, just the summons at the door last week.

I went to see the Garda that issued it on Monday night and she searched the computer again using my details and the Reg of the car but could not find any sort of information confirming I had produced my license, which is why I am confused.

I went to Celbridge to see if they could look it up and was told if she couldn't find it neither could they and they wouldn't even look up the date in the book they have on the counter which should have had it as I saw the Garda who I gave my license to write the info down.

If its a case that nothing can be done then I don't mind turning up as according to everyone i've talked to about it, gardai included, told me it would probably be thrown out but I would just rather not have to take the time off work as I have only just recently (2 months) started a new job.

Happened to me a couple of years ago, had a crash near lamb doyle sand produced in Tallaght garda station. It was written in the book. The gard at the scene asked where i would produce and I told her tallaght. She obviously didnt check so I got summonses. Long and short of it is, I turned up in court with a letter from Tallaght garda station saying I produced and it was struck out.

Vikings

Yeah it does look like I will have to take the time off and go in to court and have it sorted there, I think the only documents I need are my driving license and the receipt I have from the tax office from May 12th.

Will try get a letter from Celbridge garda station as well saying I did produce - cant believe that they didnt/couldnt put in on to the system, all this would have been avoided then, but such is our police force.

pclancy

Similar stuff has happened to me, even worse was taking a day off work to drive to dun laoghire court for a tax offence a year before, all the paperwork to prove i had tax in my hand and the prosecuting guard never showed up. Admin and entering stuff into Pulse often seems to phase them.

sparksfly

I was stopped by a Garda early this month as I was driving with a passenger into Monasterevin town from Kildare. He stepped onto the road as I approached and signalled me to stop. A Garda jeep was parked nearby. He asked me to show my licence which I did. He went away with the licence for about one and a half minutes then handed it back to me and said I could continue. He was of a pleasant demeanour and made no other comment . As everything appeared to be in order with what I thought was a routine Garda check, I thought no more about it.
I could not believe (nor could my passenger when told) when I recieved a speeding notice ten days later through the post. I do not believe that I was travelling at the speed stated on the notice but I wasn’t given the opportunity to check or question it at the time as I was told nothing. I had to go through the penalty points office to get his name. I contacted his (Naas) station on several occasions on the day I received the notice and on the following day to ask him about the procedure followed by him but could never get in contact with him, however, a Garda there told me that this was certainly not standard procedure. Gardai took my name and details on two occasions and said that he would contact me, but he never did. I also spoke to the superintendant who suggested I go down the court route.
I feel very angry about the way I was led to believe that there was no issue on the evening in question and was not told what my speed was or given the opportunity to ask questions. I have never had any kind of fine in 28 years driving.
I fully support the Gardai and think highly of them as a force in what is often a difficult and demanding job. I also know that the nature of their role causes them to receive a good deal of unfair critisism by disgruntled members of the public and that, by and large, they are a very honourable bunch of individuals. I also support the whole road safety drive including the robust implementation of the penalty points system but I think that this kind of sneaky activity by one individual is counter productive.

TomMc

Can anyone tell me - is there a time limit a Garda must summons you - say up to 6 months ? I got stopped (kind of) rushing home to see one of the world cup matches last June. The Garda took my details as I had not got my license with me at the time. Showed him my insurance cert etc. As I wasn't going that fast and doubt he could prove the exact speed anyway, I think he sent me on my way. Said nothing with regard to speeding or anything, just said to take it easy.

Our man in Havana

They must apply for a summons within 6 months but they can serve it any time afterwards so long as they are more than 21 days from the court date.

Our man in Havana

Stekelly wrote:

He wasnt. He was stopped on the 1st of may and got the tax on the 12th.

Tax runs from the 1st of the month therefore covered.

Bluetonic

Bond-007 wrote:

Tax runs from the 1st of the month therefore covered.

When he was stopped he wasn't taxed. It's a simple as that. Whilst you can pay tax in arrears you can't retrospectively pay it to avoid a fine.

MercMad

Now i've talked to the gardai in celbridge and the garda in lucan who issued the summons to me and both of them are making out that I have to make the court appearance though the issuing garda said she would have the driving without license struck out along with the non display one because I did show it in celbridge garda station, I asked her was there any way in which I wouldnt have to attend the court and she basically made out that I would have to go but it would be thrown out.

..........the gardai cocked up and they know it. unfortunately due to the process they cant stop the Court action. You will have to go and it sounds as though the Garda in question will ensure that the case is struck out, but you have to sit there and wait for you spot, at which time someone will mumble "strike" and they'll move on, leaving you sitting there still not knowing what the hell is going on !

No big deal...........just a day out of your holidays...........they dont care !

vandermeyde

in these situations its always worth getting as much documentation as you can and turning up on the day in person....you never know what might happen in the court and what humour the judge may be in....I know someone in a similar type of situation to yourself who was told all would be ok and they didn't have to turn up...his mother actually went anyway, luckily enough, as the judge ignored the garda and said that if my buddy didn't turn up within the hour, he'd issue an arrest warrant...he got a small fine for failing to tax the car then when he did turn up along with a verbal volley from the judge....

anything to do with the courts/judiciary is not something I'd leave to chance.

Our man in Havana

Bluetonic wrote:

When he was stopped he wasn't taxed. It's a simple as that. Whilst you can pay tax in arrears you can't retrospectively pay it to avoid a fine.

What's the point of paying arrears then?

TomMc

Bond 007 - Thanks for that earlier - I'm still in Limboland after 7 months ?

*************

You would only get away with no tax if you managed to get it paid (with a new disc) in the same month you are stopped. Arrears is really to avoid having to get forms signed by the Gardai that a car was off the road. If it wasn't and a car was taxed late (month+ after expiration of previous disc), then its to put things in order again (but won't right the wrongs if stopped beforehand).

Vikings

What happened was the car was off the road, got it stamped on April 21st by the Guards to prove this. I had a broken wrist so could not drive it. On April 28th I got insured on the car, stopped on May 1st at a checkpoint with no tax - then taxed the car for 4 months on the 12th of May (including April).

I'm not arguing the fact that I was driving without tax, I accept that I shouldnt have been doing that and will take any consequences for it - but that is usually just a fine. No court appearance.

I've just booked the morning off work so I will be turning up to see what happens, fingers crossed it gets tossed out but who knows.

lynchie

Im just after going through something similar.. Actually Im just back from court today..

Got stopped driving a friends UK reg Jeep (never been stopped b4.. musta been the 5L V10 Toureg I was driving!). Produced license and insurance 2 days later.. thought nothing more of it. That was last feb..

Roll on 2nd Jan when I get home and find 2 letters, a fine of 900 euro and a disqualification for 1 yr :eek: Turns out the garda only searched the computer for my friends reg to see if I had produced (Dont know why he didnt use my name to search, cause they only took my license and insurance details which have my cars reg on it when I produced). So he didnt find it and continued to prosecute me.. only thing is I NEVER received the summons, so knew nothing of the case. So I was gonna appeal it, but if I did, it could take 6-8 months and I would NOT be able to drive until the appeal is heard. Lucky my solicitor was able to apply for a set aside.. meaning that because I didnt receive a summons I hadn't been given the chance to defend myself, so the case was thrown out, but the original charges can still be brought against me if the garda wanted to. But I had the print out from my own garda station showing I had produced so all was resolved. It has been a painful 3-4 weeks without my car, but I got it all sorted this morning!!

Vikings

Lucky you did get it sorted in the end, can't imagine being without the car for 4 weeks never mind a year! But, I also wouldn't have trust myself behind the wheel of a v10 Touareg either!!

One thing to keep in mind though, and I found this out while researching my case a little bit, is that each and every Guard has to have at least 10 summons a month. I have been told this by two Guards in the past week, that is an absolute joke. What it means is that if a Guard can't come up with 10 legitimate summons, then they go back through their notebook to see what they can concoct, resulting in plenty of innocent folks getting unexpected summons late at night.

MercMad

So I was gonna appeal it, but if I did, it could take 6-8 months and I would NOT be able to drive until the appeal is heard.

.........is that true.......I mean correct ??

I thought even you were banned but it was under appeal that you COULD drive while the case was pending ?

Our man in Havana

Correct, if you appeal, the ban is put on hold pending a full hearing of your case.

lynchie

MercMad wrote:

.........is that true.......I mean correct ??

I thought even you were banned but it was under appeal that you COULD drive while the case was pending ?

Only if you appeal within 14 days of ur original hearing in court. Cause I didnt know about the summons, the fines and disqualification letter were sent after the 14 days were up, so then if u appeal, u cant drive till its heard.

Our man in Havana

Seek professional legal advice now! You apply to the circuit court now to have the ban stayed pending the appeal.

Vikings

Didnt want to start a new thread over this but im in court on Thursday morning, and its my first time so im a little nervous.

Just wondering what the process will be like, if anyone who has been through it could walk me through what happened to them and most importantly how do I reply to the Judge... Sir? Your Honour? I havn't a clue!

I'm going in alone, did not get any representation for this, I was driving without tax end of story so im willing to take the consequences, just hope it aint too severe.

miju

was up in court for no tax / insurance about 6 years ago , judge was pretty striaght to the point asked me if i had anything to say for myself etc and when i said no and admitted it straight out he just issued me with a fine & a ban to boot

i was like yourself and very nervous but dont worry it shouldnt be a problem

Vikings

Well I was insured, was just waiting on my proper insurance disc in the post before I got the car taxed and it was during that time I went through the checkpoint and was stopped.

Im guessing the ban you received was more to do with no insurance than not having tax? Im hoping my case is going to be thrown out or at worst a fine. Ive talked to a few guards about it and they have said it would probably be thrown out so fingers crossed.

cyrusdvirus

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Didnt want to start a new thread over this but im in court on Thursday morning, and its my first time so im a little nervous.

Just wondering what the process will be like, if anyone who has been through it could walk me through what happened to them and most importantly how do I reply to the Judge... Sir? Your Honour? I havn't a clue!

I'm going in alone, did not get any representation for this, I was driving without tax end of story so im willing to take the consequences, just hope it aint too severe.

Well?? how'd you get on?

miju

IncredibleBulk wrote:

Im guessing the ban you received was more to do with no insurance than not having tax?

yep was exactly why i recieved the ban , so how did you get on?

Vikings

Thrown out. The Judge asked the guard to go through it, she explained that I was stopped on 05/06 with a tax disk showing 02/06 so the Judge was about to hand me a fine equivalent to the unpaid tax (€75) but all this was only because the Guard conveniently forgot to tell the judge the car was off the road for february and march and that I paid the arrears for april. I told that to the judge and before I could even show him the proof he said "i'll give you the benefit of the doubt" said thanks and that was it. Still feel kind of lucky, the Guard was ok in the fact she had part of the summons struck out beforehand but then she neglected to inform the judge of the full details when it mattered. Anyway its over now but took forever in there, mustve been waiting nearly 2 hours before I was called.

miju

excellent , alls well that ends well

Rudolph Claus

Another example of the guards wasting court time. Useless fooks!
That whole situation the OP found himself in is a complete farce. Pity the guards wont do what they`re supposed to be doing instead of hassleing decent law abiding motorists over pretty genuine things.