God Save the Queen & Croke Park

Mike...

On November 21, 1920 Croke Park was the scene of a massacre by the Auxiliary Division. British police auxiliaries entered the ground, shooting indiscriminately into the crowd killing 13 during a Dublin-Tipperary football match. The dead included 12 spectators and one player, Michael Hogan. The latter, Tipperary's captain, gave his name posthumously to the Hogan stand built four years later in 1924.

In that same stand on 24 February 2007, the anthem of the murders and assassin’s of 1920 will ring out in the field, ground and stand’s that commemorate Michael Hogan.
The occasion is the Ireland v England Rugby match for the 6 Nations championship.

What’s your view on this?

Winters

Move the **** on. History is histroy, get the **** over it and enjoy the sport and win the game

walrusgumble

did you ever see apres match during the summer? remember the sketch of tat micheall whats his name, the gaa stimulator of foreign sports into gaa? well on sketch had him talking to the character of terry venables and on comes brian kennedy (i love everything) singing god save the queen in irish. michael gives him a good slap. terry asks hi "why you do that". micheal says "he was enjoying it too much"

to be honest it is time to move on. many british citizens were actually appaled from what the the news that they heard coming from ireland. one thing about the rugby fans, even the english, they are not biggoted c*nts, gentlemen, they will prob be sitting next to an irish fan sipping on a pint of guinness shout their respective teams on. now i would be a tad bit worried if it was the soccer crowd and depending on the situation up in the north at that time. by no means am i anti soccer after gaa it the best, i am referring to the british supporters and not irish supporters.

(incidently if it were a soccer match, what is the guarantee that the irish would not boo the british anthem, i remember ireland v denmark in one of mick mccarthy last friendlies, a danish sub's id was mistaken for a former rangers player had he was booed constantly when he got the ball, later the actual next ranger player came on) how did that makes us any better than the brits?

i am sure the various die hard gaa members of county boards are aware of there history and some might have took this into account, whn they met to allow the motion of the "garrison games" lol to be played in croker.

maybe it is a good sign of progress between the two nations. after all we are islands and seperated from mainland europe, we gotta look out for each other on various issues while expanding ourselves to the rest of the world.

vesp

walrusgumble wrote:

did you ever see apres match during the summer? remember the sketch of tat micheall whats his name, the gaa stimulator of foreign sports into gaa? well on sketch had him talking to the character of terry venables and on comes brian kennedy (i love everything) singing god save the queen in irish. michael gives him a good slap. terry asks hi "why you do that". micheal says "he was enjoying it too much"

to be honest it is time to move on. many british citizens were actually appaled from what the the news that they heard coming from ireland. one thing about the rugby fans, even the english, they are not biggoted c*nts, gentlemen, they will prob be sitting next to an irish fan sipping on a pint of guinness shout their respective teams on. now i would be a tad bit worried if it was the soccer crowd and depending on the situation up in the north at that time. by no means am i anti soccer after gaa it the best, i am referring to the british supporters and not irish supporters.

(incidently if it were a soccer match, what is the guarantee that the irish would not boo the british anthem, i remember ireland v denmark in one of mick mccarthy last friendlies, a danish sub's id was mistaken for a former rangers player had he was booed constantly when he got the ball, later the actual next ranger player came on) how did that makes us any better than the brits?

i am sure the various die hard gaa members of county boards are aware of there history and some might have took this into account, whn they met to allow the motion of the "garrison games" lol to be played in croker.

maybe it is a good sign of progress between the two nations. after all we are islands and seperated from mainland europe, we gotta look out for each other on various issues while expanding ourselves to the rest of the world.

Have to agree with you on a lot of the above, fair play.

smashey

I wish they would play it tomorrow so we could get this whole thing out of the way.

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions.

RobertFoster

I think you're missing the bigger picture. If it's a rugby match it means "Irelands Call" is going to be played in Croker too! :eek:

Seriously though, I've not seen much respect shown to Amhrán na bhFiann at any GAA matches I've been to, it's often halved by people blowing horns and whistles and shouting etc., what'll they care if God Save the Queen is played?

Victor

walrusgumble wrote:

to be honest it is time to move on. many british citizens were actually appaled from what the the news that they heard coming from ireland.

Right up to and including the King.

lounge_lizard

I have moved here from the UK and my natural mother (I was adopted at 6 weeks) was originally from Galway. I have experienced some anti British behavior here. My girlfriend who is Irish, has a friend who works for the social, her husband often makes a snide remark about the English, but I don't let him rile me. He has the problem not me. (your embassy had to be rebuilt cos we blew it up, you taught us the fecking language so why correct us when we use other words - press instead of cupboard I explained we called it a cupboard because originally it was a board for cups!)

I grew up in Cheltenham, where the Gold Cup horse racing is held, I have never actually been there as a paying punter, but have worked as a security steward for 15 years. I never had any problems with the Irish it was always the English who got pi55ed, started fights, sold dodgy gear, did find the lady etc.

I notice you play the Irish anthem at the end of a disco here, I say good on yas, wish we were more patriotic. They say England is the most patriotic country but I know plenty of people who don't even know the second verse to our anthem.

Land of Hope & Glory would be better anyway, I wonder who came up with the generic words 'god save our noble queen/king'? someone who had to make it up in a hurry maybe? (wrote it for king, king died 6 months later, had to change to queen!?)

I have settled here and am finding it a bit of a culture shock, but I prefer the slower pace, friendlier people, cheaper clothes and electricals, and the fact that people are more likely to talk to you in a bus queue than in the UK. ('Oh no, I've got the nutter standing next to me, go away, can I get a cab, train, pretend on my phone!')

Anyway I was never that patriotic, but I do observe the armistice, the London Al Quada bombings, and the 9/11 remembrance. that is because I was in the Army for 12 years and have lost a lot of friends. I lost 3 friends in the 9/11 attack and that's why I reported a recent Nigerian 419 scam to the ISP and email provider of the scammer.

Well that's my 2cents worth, (still getting used to the Euro!) take it easy all and good luck for the match. (I don't follow any sport so have no views on that)

Lizard

Fratton Fred

It had to happen sometime and a Rugby match is probably he best place to start. Rugby crows are usually a lot friendlier and less political than football crowds so hopefully it will go off ok.

This is a question I have asked at work and generally people have not realised the significance of it, if anything, the English fans may be more conscious of it than the Irish.

kippy

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions

Brilliant comment, the same could be said for the English anthem played in the cities of many of its former colonies.

It is time to move on-not to forget-but to move on. Things have changed a lot in the last 90 or so years.

europerson

I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait.

boneless

If the Scots can handle it in Murrayfield despite the verse which calls for the massacre of their race (not often sung I know!!) then we can handle it in Croker... I will sing the 'Internationale' instead of both anthems!!

Mike...

smashey wrote:

The Americans dropped two atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and I have no doubt that their anthem has been played in both those cities on numerous occasions.

Hopefully the Americans will have the same thought in mind when opening the replacement of the World Trade Center and invite Abu Hamza al-Masri to do a prayer service......

Mike...

europerson wrote:

I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait.

Why?????????

csk

Why is this in history? Could a mod move please?

Anyway while I'm here I'll throw my 2c in.

I think the significance of this occasion is lost on alot of people especially judging by some of the comments made here.

As others have said this is a genuine chance to move away from the past and should be taken. The significance of an All-Ireland rugby team playing England in the home of idigenous Irish sport should not be underestimated.

The Irish rugby team are a shining example of what can be achieved when the people of this island come together, while the GAA for all the good it has done(and make no mistake it has done plenty of good for Ireland) is sometimes indicative of the Irish characteristic of "anti-Britishness".

The symbolism of these two sentiments coming together in Croke Park will be a proud day for Ireland.

God Save the Queen playing in Croke Park will be a proud day for Ireland...
if done right.

Not to mark this occasion would, in my opinion, be a mistake and would only serve to show we have learned nothing from the past.
A minutes silence for those that died in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday (at the very least) should be held, in fact I would say extend it to all those who have died in the various conflicts between our two countries.

All those who have said "get the fcuk over it, it's in the fcukin past" etc. are just as pathetic as those who will no doubt say "remember the past look what the Brits did" etc. To just bury your head in the sand is, in my opinion, disgusting.

As I said, the significance of this match should not be undersestimated. This, to me anyway, is a genuine chance for a new beginning, it should not be missed.

smashey

*mono* wrote:

Hopefully the Americans will have the same thought in mind when opening the replacement of the World Trade Center and invite Abu Hamza al-Masri to do a prayer service......

Well I would think that all religions will be represented when the time comes.

nodger

csk wrote:

A minutes silence for those that died in Croke Park on Bloody Sunday (at the very least) should be held, in fact I would say extend it to all those who have died in the various conflicts between our two countries.

Why do that? It's a sporting occasion, not a political one. I think the vast majority of Irish and English fans would be satisfied just to see a great game of rugby being played in a top class stadium. Why politicise the occasion and make things uncomfortable for the English fans who make the trip over here? Most of them probably never even heard of the Croke Park massacre. A certain number of English football fans may be men of questionable moral standing, but I've had pints with many an English rugby fan over the years and they're always perfectly decent folks.

csk

nodger wrote:

Why do that? It's a sporting occasion, not a political one. I think the vast majority of Irish and English fans would be satisfied just to see a great game of rugby being played in a top class stadium. Why politicise the occasion and make things uncomfortable for the English fans who make the trip over here? Most of them probably never even heard of the Croke Park massacre. A certain number of English football fans may be scumbags, but I've had pints with many an English rugby fan over the years and they're always perfectly decent folks.

Where did I say anything about English Rugby fans being "scumbags". What are you trying to get at?

In the words of FrattonFred, an Englishman (and I hope he doesn't mind me pointing that out:) )

FrattonFred wrote:

It had to happen sometime and a Rugby match is probably he best place to start. Rugby crows are usually a lot friendlier and less political than football crowds so hopefully it will go off ok.

This is a question I have asked at work and generally people have not realised the significance of it, if anything, the English fans may be more conscious of it than the Irish.

Now my suggestion is not aimed at somehow "shaming" any English Fans or tryng to make them uncomfortable and by no means ever think I am doing such a thing. I am fully aware of the good reputation of the English Rugby team fans.

However the game is "politicised" already by the hoo-haa about the Rule 42 and by the fact that men were killed by British Forces on Bloody Sunday on the very pitch those players will run out on. Now if we were to go by Fratton Fred's comments even English people are aware of it. I mean if it wasn't in some way "politicised" this thread would not exist, would it?

In the coming weeks this will be highlighted more and more as people indulge in the usual anti-british rants.

So why not head all that off by making a statement towards peace and reconciliation between the North and South and this Nation and the English Nation.

Do you not see what, an All-Ireland rugby team playing in the the home of indigenous Irish sport and one of the last bastions of "anti-Britishness" against the "auld enemy", could be used to symbolise ?

Erin Go Brath

I, for one think its great that Croke Park has opened its doors to these rugby games. The alternative would have been to move our home international fixture to another country, which ironically would've probably been England (so i guess that would technically then be an away game ).

I agree with csk that while we must look to the future, we also owe it to the people that were killed not to brush their memory under the carpet either on such an historic occasion. A minutes silence or some other form of remembrance, such as flags above the stadium been flown at half mast is I believe wholly appropriate for this occasion.

purple'n'gold

English rugby fans are usually decent ordinary sports followers that are out for a good game and a good time afterwards. Who ever heard of English rugby fans involved in any tragedies like Heysel stadium or Hillsborough?

smcgiff

Erin Go Brath wrote:

I agree with csk that while we must look to the future, we also owe it to the people that were killed not to brush their memory under the carpet either on such an historic occasion. A minutes silence or some other form of remembrance, such as flags above the stadium been flown at half mast is I believe wholly appropriate for this occasion.

:rolleyes:

Did we ever get an apology from the Danes for killing Brian Boru?

Hagar

Any chance someone could post up the words so that we could all learn them in time for the big day?
Maybe someone could stick it?
I know the very place...

purple'n'gold

Hagar wrote:

Any chance someone could post up the words so that we could all learn them in time for the big day?
Maybe someone could stick it?
I know the very place...

On official occasions, only the first verse is usually sung, as follows:

God save our gracious Queen!
Long live our noble Queen!
God save the Queen!
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us,
God save the Queen.

An additional verse is occasionally sung:

Thy choicest gifts in store
On her be pleased to pour,
Long may she reign.
May she defend our laws,
And give us ever cause,
To sing with heart and voice,
God save the Queen.

----

smcgiff

And if you could stick up the Irish National Anthem it could come in handy too!

purple'n'gold

Did we ever get an apology from the Danes for killing Brian Boru?


did we ever apologize to the rest of the world for Big Tom's "singing"?

Hagar

Since you asked so nicely.
Maybe both of them could be stuck, at the top of the forum obviously.
Some people have no sense of humour.;)

Seo dhibh a cháirde duan Óglaigh,
Cathréimeach briomhar ceolmhar,
Ár dtinte cnámh go buacach táid,
'S an spéir go min réaltogach
Is fonnmhar faobhrach sinn chun gleo
'S go tiúnmhar glé roimh thíocht do'n ló
Fé chiúnas chaomh na hoiche ar seol:
Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann
Curfá:
Sinne Firnna Fáil
A tá fé gheall ag Éirinn,
Buion dár slua
Thar toinn do ráinig chugainn,
Fé mhóid bheith saor.
Sean tír ár sinsir feasta
Ní fhagfar fé'n tiorán ná fé'n tráil
Anocht a théam sa bhearna bhaoil,
Le gean ar Ghaeil chun báis nó saoil
Le guna screach fé lámhach na bpiléar
Seo libh canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann.

2. Cois bánta réidhe, ar árdaibh sléibhe,
Ba bhuachach ár sinsir romhainn,
Ag lámhach go tréan fé'n sár-bhrat séin
Tá thuas sa ghaoith go seolta
Ba dhúchas riamh d'ár gcine cháidh
Gan iompáil siar ó imirt áir,
'S ag siúl mar iad i gcoinne námhad
Seo libh, canaídh Amhrán na bhFiann
Curfá: 3. A bhuíon nách fann d'fhuil Ghaeil is Gall,
Sin breacadh lae na saoirse,
Tá scéimhle 's scanradh i gcroíthe namhad,
Roimh ranna laochra ár dtire.
Ár dtinte is tréith gan spréach anois,
Sin luisne ghlé san spéir anoir,
'S an bíobha i raon na bpiléar agaibh:
Seo libh, canaídh Amhrán na bh Fiann.
Curfá:

Agus as Béarla

We'll sing a song, a soldier's song,
With cheering rousing chorus,
As round our blazing fires we throng,
The starry heavens o'er us;
Impatient for the coming fight,
And as we wait the morning's light,
Here in the silence of the night,
We'll chant a soldier's song.
Chorus:
Soldiers are we
Whose lives are pledged to Ireland;
Some have come
From a land beyond the wave.
Sworn to be free,
No more our ancient sire land
Shall shelter the despot or the slave.
Tonight we man the gap of danger
In Erin's cause, come woe or weal
'Mid cannons' roar and rifles peal,
We'll chant a soldier's song.

2. In valley green, on towering crag,
Our fathers fought before us,
And conquered 'neath the same old flag
That's proudly floating o'er us.
We're children of a fighting race,
That never yet has known disgrace,
And as we march, the foe to face,
We'll chant a soldier's song.
Chorus: 3. Sons of the Gael! Men of the Pale!
The long watched day is breaking;
The serried ranks of Inisfail
Shall set the Tyrant quaking.
Our camp fires now are burning low;
See in the east a silv'ry glow,
Out yonder waits the Saxon foe,
So chant a soldier's song.
Chorus:

DublinWriter

*mono* wrote:

What’s your view on this?

I wonder how the Brits feel about the Irish raiding them and taking 1000's of their people as slaves in the 7th-9th centuries way before anyone ever taught of using Africa?

Or maybe the only history we should care about is the history made into biopics by Neil Jordan and Oliver Stone? You know, the history you can eat popcorn to?

"History is a nightmare from which I cannot wake" - James Joyce

"The only thing man has learnt from history is that man has learnt nothing from history" - Albert Einstein.

My take on it is that you can't look backward and forward at the same time.

If you want to be a true patriot then knock the chip off your shoulder and learn your country's dying language, one of the oldest and noblest in Europe. Make it live again.

If not, take the easy road and be a whingy armchair republican...chant Brits out...etc.

vesp

lounge_lizard wrote:

I have moved here from the UK and my natural mother (I was adopted at 6 weeks) was originally from Galway. I have experienced some anti British behavior here.

Welcome to Ireland lizard and do not let any bigotted or racist people upset you. I am Irish but I have also heard enough anti-British /anti-English / anti-Protestant comments ( especially from some people after a few pints ) to last a lifetime, but bear in mind not everyone is like that. It was worse say 20 or 30 years ago because jobs were scarcer, there were less immigrants, the catholic church had more of a hold then and tensions were higher in the north. Some people were just taught to hate everything remotely British ( burn everything British but their coal as they used to say in school ).

Aedh Baclamh

"I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait."

Haha, no.

Thankfully I'll never hear it as I'll only be attending GAA matches in Croke Park.

nollaig

A certain number of English football fans may be men of questionable moral standing

Plenty of men of questionable moral standing among Irish soccer fans as well

Fratton Fred

Aedh Baclamh wrote:

"I think that the playing of God Save The Queen in Croke Park will be one of modern Ireland's proudest moments. I can't wait."

Haha, no.

Thankfully I'll never hear it as I'll only be attending GAA matches in Croke Park.

I'm sure the 80,000 that will be there will miss you dearly.:rolleyes: