MMM and the Dublin based media prejudice

motormouthmable

Fancy an argument? Post here!

What I'm saying is that every report about crime in Limerick is called a prejudice from the Dublin based media (further jsut "DBM").

Sometimes it looks here in the board like it's going to the stage that nothing at all happens here (no murders, nor rapes, no shootings, no house burnings, no ASBs etc) and only the DBM are making those incidents up or the DBM even causing those incidents.

"Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle!"

Karmafaerie

Could somebody just lock this please.

motormouthmable

Not before some statistics have proven something!

Liam Byrne

You've got it all wrong, MMM....... let me try to explain it AGAIN.....NO-ONE has claimed what you have indicated above; news (good and bad) should be reported.

What we DO claim is:

1) Only a minority of the good things that happen in Limerick are reported nationally - this could be the case everywhere, but it's wrong and it affects the remaining things below

2) When the occasional bad things do happen in Limerick, they appear as massive unsubstantiated headlines with the words "murder capital" and some such rubbish

3) Also, when those things happen, some gob****e rushes to the archives and repeats - in full - the last bad thing that happened, making it look like 2 things have happened (a bit like a politician announcing jobs or a grant)

4) Even when good things happen, some gob****e like the guy in the Sunday Life magazine tries to associate with the bad stuff.

5) At least one radio station in Dublin chose to refer to Limerick in a derogatory and slanderous fashion

6) When any plans are announced to improve Limerick, some people - yourself included - choose to highlight the things that have not yet been improved; every journey starts with one step and unless those small steps are taken there would be no improvement at all.

LET ME SAY IT AGAIN......NO-ONE, MYSELF INCLUDED, CARES IF THE MEDIA REPORT THE FACTS.

All of the above happen - there's no denying that. And it's unfair and slanderous and would not be tolerated if it were done against a person, damaging their reputation far beyond what they deserved; what the media DON'T care about by slandering an area is that they ARE damaging the reputations of people - Limerick people.

Look at the case of the Dublin family in Ballybunion; the Gardai got pulled up for stating the facts in a way that the judge ruled as unfair; the family themselves weren't involved in anything, one of them was.....the judge ruled that the Gardai were wrong in damaging the whole family's reputation and overstating the risk, resulting in prejudicial behaviour against the family.

I'd love that judge to examine any case Limerick might have in light of the above facts.

P.S. Good to see you showing a sudden interest in statistics......I think they'll show that "s**b c**y" is far from warranted and justified (not enough stabbings), as is "murder capital" (not enough murders), as is "ongoing scumbag flogging" (not enough scumbags) as is...............

sioda

LB gotta agree fully with you really tired of MMM's constant crap

bazz26

For somebody who could not wait to move out of Limerick and obviously hates the place so much, you have to wonder why the OP would want to keep posting here.

Amazotheamazing

Again, MMM, no-one here claims there is no crime in Limerick, or no serious crime in Limerick, what people do claim is that there is an over-representation of crimes that happen in Limerick in the national media. I not sure why you struggle with this concept.

ellenmelon

i totally dont want to get into an arguement..but i think the issue with the limerick vs the dublin media thing is that SOME people make it seem like all they do up there is diss limerick all the time. the fact is that once a city/person/country/whatever has a reputation its fricking hard to get rid of. it happens everywhere...in NZ there are suburbs in most major towns and cities that are "violent" and "scummy" and when there is some attack or something the headlines are "ARANUI ARSONIST" or something to that effect..and its assumed after that that all aranui residents are violent or whatever...its a bad example but you get what i mean? it happens everywhere...limerick just happens to have it a bit worse than others on occasion.were any of you bullied in school? have an eejit they work with who is so passive aggressive you want to SMACK them? the dublin media are kind of like that..the obnoxious, abusive school bully/effed up workmate who knows your weak points and targets them cause they know that will provoke a reaction. the DBM know that news on limerick sells papers.when i complain about cr@p happening at work or when it happened at school, my mums advice is to ignore them, and prove them wrong by your actions..prove that you are worth your weight in gold and that their bull wont affect you. we (unfortunately) cant change the media's perception of limerick by whingeing about it. all we can do is go "um, do i look like i care?" and get on with our productive, limerick-improving lives..and change opinions one person at a time.

wow, i talk CR@P! lol.

motormouthmable

bazz26 wrote:

For somebody who could not wait to move out of Limerick and obviously hates the place so much, you have to wonder why the OP would want to keep posting here.

it just follows me in my dreams. nightmares, you know... and then I wake up, read the limerick-based (!!!) blogs and the forum and it's all true...

posting here is a kind of a step in direction self-healing

Liam Byrne

...it's all true

What, exactly, are you claiming is "all true" ? If it's your completely unsubstantiated claims about what you think we complain about (as distinct from what we actually complain about) then back it up ?

I noticed that your incisive post said NOTHING to counter the points and facts that I and Amazo provided for you, so I presume you've finally accepted that you are wrong ?

ellenmelon has a point - ignorant bullies should be ignored - I would agree if the bullies didn't have the level of influence and the impact on perception that they do in this case.

Look at the current Big Bother controversy (no, I'm not saying "look at BB" - heaven forbid! - just the controversy); Jade's apparently an ignorant bully who doesn't know the facts, but EVERYONE is coming to Shilpa's defence - the UK and Indian PMs, the media, etc, etc.

But this thread isn't about the media itself - that's been flogged to death; it's about getting MMM to see the difference between what we are saying and what he constantly insists on believing that we are saying.

Then again, considering he started the thread by asking "who wants an argument", I doubt that we are going to get him to ignore his preconception and see the facts.

Karmafaerie

Karmafaerie wrote:

Could somebody just lock this please.

.

mysterious

motormouthmable wrote:

it just follows me in my dreams. nightmares, you know... and then I wake up, read the limerick-based (!!!) blogs and the forum and it's all true...

posting here is a kind of a step in direction self-healing

If you want to look at a black dot and on a sunny day go ahead, but stop putting it on everyone else here... Lighten up.


If everyone for arguement's sake here, just said to you Limerick is Really bad, in a non factual sense would you then shut up and move on.

I'm beginning to realise, facts and truths are not something you want to accept or take in or else it's just attention seeking.


So this answer's the question no one want's to argue the odd hate you have for Limerick. The facts were put on here time and time again. You need to accept it now.

Liam Byrne

Good post, mysterious, but be careful....

mysterious wrote:

If everyone for arguement's sake here, just said to you Limerick is Really bad, in a non factual sense would you then shut up and move on.

If we all do that - as the caring people that we are, just to reassure MMM that he's right and everyone else is wrong - then there would probably be an article in the Sindo at the weekend saying...

boards.ie visitors admit that Limerick is Really bad

Like MMM, they'd probably ignore the context of the discussion and the "...in a non factual sense" caveat

Amazotheamazing

At the risk of being offensive MMM, any chance you'd just cheer the hell up? I mean, yeah, I can around finding fault with everything if I want to, but I'd much rather look on the bright side. You've left Limerick, so why do you come back here and try and bring people down? Why can't you dig how beautiful it is here.

Karmafaerie

I had decided just to ignore you MMM, but one of those interesting facts you "love" so much has shown up.

The CSO released the initial crime figures for 2006 yesterday.
Now, these aren't the comprehensive Garda figures, so this isn't as accurate as it will be in a few months when they come out.
But, there were 66 murders in Ireland last year.
That's interesting, because as of the start of December, I'm fairly sure that there had been 33 murders in Dublin.
That's half of the murders for the whole country! And there was still a month to go, so that percentage could be higher!
In Limerick as of that same period guess how many.
I could be wrong on this, but I'm also fairly sure it was 3.

Dublin has roughly 1/4 of the population, and at least 1/2 of the murders.
Limerick has 1/22 of the murders.

This gets even more interesting when you bring it back to last year.
In the last two years, there have been at least 61 murders in Dublin, compared to 4 in Limerick!

Now if we had a non-Dublin biased media, the fact that there are twice as many murders in Dublin as the population would seem to warrant, would be on every newspaper and news show in the country!

ellenmelon

Karmafaerie wrote:

I had decided just to ignore you MMM, but one of those interesting facts you "love" so much has shown up.

The CSO released the initial crime figures for 2006 yesterday.
Now, these aren't the comprehensive Garda figures, so this isn't as accurate as it will be in a few months when they come out.
But, there were 66 murders in Ireland last year.
That's interesting, because as of the start of December, I'm fairly sure that there had been 33 murders in Dublin.
That's half of the murders for the whole country! And there was still a month to go, so that percentage could be higher!
In Limerick as of that same period guess how many.
I could be wrong on this, but I'm also fairly sure it was 3.

Dublin has roughly 1/4 of the population, and at least 1/2 of the murders.
Limerick has 1/22 of the murders.

This gets even more interesting when you bring it back to last year.
In the last two years, there have been at least 61 murders in Dublin, compared to 4 in Limerick!

Now if we had a non-Dublin biased media, the fact that there are twice as many murders in Dublin as the population would seem to warrant, would be on every newspaper and news show in the country!

just had to say...i SUCKED at maths at school and STILL suck so it cracks me up when stats are brought up. if someone went to me "the stats say so!!" i would be like "ok! i believe you!" because i wouldnt have a clue what they mean! LOL. tis very easy to fool me when maths is brought into the equation

Karmafaerie

ellenmelon wrote:

just had to say...i SUCKED at maths at school and STILL suck so it cracks me up when stats are brought up. if someone went to me "the stats say so!!" i would be like "ok! i believe you!" because i wouldnt have a clue what they mean! LOL. tis very easy to fool me when maths is brought into the equation

Believe me, I hated Maths too but this isn't some big equation here.

Ireland = 66 murders
Dublin = 33 murders(at least)

Half of the murders in Ireland last year were in Dublin!
This is grossly out of proportion with it's population, and yet has never been mentioned in the media.

motormouthmable

a quarter of irelands population is living in dublin.

Karmafaerie

motormouthmable wrote:

a quarter of irelands population is living in dublin.

Wow, here I was thinking that I'd already said that, and pointed out that though Dublin has quarter of the countries population, it has half of the countries murders.

Oh wait, I had!

Karmafaerie wrote:

Dublin has roughly 1/4 of the population, and at least 1/2 of the murders.

As I said before. There are twice as many murders as the population would suggest there should be, and a non-biased media would bring this to the national attention so that the Gardai would be forced to do something about it!

ellenmelon

Karmafaerie wrote:

Believe me, I hated Maths too but this isn't some big equation here.

Ireland = 66 murders
Dublin = 33 murders(at least)

Half of the murders in Ireland last year were in Dublin!
This is grossly out of proportion with it's population, and yet has never been mentioned in the media.

its not the numbers like you just wrote that confuse me. FRACTIONS and PERCENTAGES and all that make my brain freeze.

but i get 33 is half of 66 so therefore the media are twisting things. im not so dumb after all! lol

Liam Byrne

MMM, you're being pretty vague and cavalier with the "facts" that you supposedly love so much....

motormouthable wrote:

a quarter of irelands population is living in dublin.

"In the census of 2006, the population of the administrative area controlled by Dublin City Council was 505,739. At the same census the Dublin Region population was 1,186,159, and the Greater Dublin Area 1,661,185."

The total population of the country, from the same census, is 4,234,925.

THESE ARE FACTS. So "Dublin", depending on what you're referring to, has either 40% of the population, or a mere 12% of the population (Dublin City). Since the "Greater Dublin Area" includes other counties, chances are that those are included in other reports, so the true figure lies somewhere in between, but you can't use the figures to back up statistics if you don't know what exactly they represent.

In the same census, Limerick City has a population of 53,560, while Limerick City and County combined have a population of 175,304.

So lets look at the fractions - you're gonna love this so, ellenmelon - in that light.

DUBLIN: 33 murders out of 1,661,185 = 0.00198%
LIMERICK: 3 murders out of 175,304 = 0.00171%

So Dublin is higher - even when I'm being generous and using the highest population data available for Dublin (AND using the lowest for "Limerick", since the Garda stats also include some of the surrounding areas, plus even the county figures don't represent the suburbs that are in Clare). So, if you decided to create an equivalent "Greater Limerick Area", the stats for Limerick drop even more.

But, like I said, you can't use statistics unless you know what they represent, and the Corbally/Parteen figures are not available separately. Since part of the problem with the tabloids and the "Dublin Media" is that they use stats a particular way,let's be fair and do a comparative analysis using the "city-only" stats:

Dublin: 33 out of 505,739 = 0.0065%
Limerick: 3 out of 53,560 = 0.0055%

Oops! No change in which is worse there.....I guess the only way to make Limerick look bad is to simultaneously use the stats for the "Greater Dublin Area" and the core Limerick City area ? But then, that wouldn't fair, would it ? Anyone doing that would surely be manipulating opinion for some reason.....

Karmafaerie

Liam Byrne wrote:

MMM, you're being pretty vague and cavalier with the "facts" that you supposedly love so much....



"In the census of 2006, the population of the administrative area controlled by Dublin City Council was 505,739. At the same census the Dublin Region population was 1,186,159, and the Greater Dublin Area 1,661,185."

The total population of the country, from the same census, is 4,234,925.

THESE ARE FACTS. So "Dublin", depending on what you're referring to, has either 40% of the population, or a mere 12% of the population (Dublin City). Since the "Greater Dublin Area" includes other counties, chances are that those are included in other reports, so the true figure lies somewhere in between, but you can't use the figures to back up statistics if you don't know what exactly they represent.

In the same census, Limerick City has a population of 53,560, while Limerick City and County combined have a population of 175,304.

So lets look at the fractions - you're gonna love this so, ellenmelon - in that light.

DUBLIN: 33 murders out of 1,661,185 = 0.00198%
LIMERICK: 3 murders out of 175,304 = 0.00171%

So Dublin is higher - even when I'm being generous and using the highest population data available for Dublin (AND using the lowest for "Limerick", since the Garda stats also include some of the surrounding areas, plus even the county figures don't represent the suburbs that are in Clare). So, if you decided to create an equivalent "Greater Limerick Area", the stats for Limerick drop even more.

But, like I said, you can't use statistics unless you know what they represent, and the Corbally/Parteen figures are not available separately. Since part of the problem with the tabloids and the "Dublin Media" is that they use stats a particular way,let's be fair and do a comparative analysis using the "city-only" stats:

Dublin: 33 out of 505,739 = 0.0065%
Limerick: 3 out of 53,560 = 0.0055%

Oops! No change in which is worse there.....I guess the only way to make Limerick look bad is to simultaneously use the stats for the "Greater Dublin Area" and the core Limerick City area ? But then, that wouldn't fair, would it ? Anyone doing that would surely be manipulating opinion for some reason.....

Combined population of all Dublin Garda districts = 1,118,159
Population of Limerick district = 294,663
So

Dublin: 33 out of 1,118,159 = 0.00295
Limerick: 3 out of 294,663 = 0.00101

This wasn't really my point though.
As Ellen has pointed out, statistics mean nothing to the average person.
I was just pointing out the fact that more than half of the murders (I remembered a murder in Dublin during December meaning that there were at least 34 murders in Dublin:p ), in the country took place in the one city.
Any other country in the world, and this would be all over the media.
Could you imagine the media backlash if half of Britain's murders took place in London?!

Liam Byrne

Cheers Karma......I had alluded to the fact that the Limerick district included parts of surrounding areas and that the stats were skewed as a result, but it's good to have the actual figures.

Hmmmm......does this mean I quoted some stats badly and gave an unfairly bad impression of what Limerick is really like ? The stats quoted were in good faith, and I did include the caveat, but it's an interesting question......I'm off to chastise myself .......

Karmafaerie wrote:

Any other country in the world, and this would be all over the media.

I've suspected for a while that the main reason the media focus so negatively on Limerick is to remove the focus from Dublin; it's just a suspicion, mind......

Karmafaerie

Liam Byrne wrote:

I've suspected for a while that the main reason the media focus so negatively on Limerick is to remove the focus from Dublin; it's just a suspicion, mind......

Oh, I have very little doubt about this myself.
Ireland is the most centralised country I've ever experienced.
Everything is based towards the capital, and those who live there.
The best way to make people ignore the crime in Dublin, is to make them think it's worse somewhere else.

Everything in this country is based on and for Dublin.
Look at the National Aquatic center for instance.
The government came out and said that they had no intention of building a 50meter swimming pool in Ireland, as there was no need for one.
Then UL go and build one, and within 6 months of it's announcement the government announce that Dublin is going to have one too!
They went from the country doesn't need any, to the country needs two in half a year!!!:rolleyes:

adaminho

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2004146,00.html#article_continue

Karmafaerie

adaminho wrote:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,2004146,00.html#article_continue

Yes and no.
The Guardian is well known to not research it's articles about Ireland, and instead just lift them from Irish papers.
(When Deloras won her millions the Guardian had an article stating that the Ballysimon Road was subject to daily drive-bys!:rolleyes: )

This whole article is probably just bits and pieces from the Independent.

Liam Byrne

I love it.....the whole article retrots out bits and pieces, supposedly indicating how bad "Limerick" is (without clarifying that there is negligible impact on the city as a whole, just primarily the one estate - there's actually two estates affected by the gangs, if you read a proper newspaper, but the article only mentions one, so they're managing to understate it and yet still tar the whole city with the slander - not to mention all the decent people that are in the two estates in question).

What I really love is the way, to really clarify matters, the final paragraph states:

"In one incident a car, packed with gunmen wearing body armour, was stopped in west Dublin. 'The officers had to let the guys go because they were not as well armed,' a GRA spokesman said. 'The officers would have come off worst in a shoot-out.'

WEST DUBLIN.........WTF has that got to do with Limerick ? I know MMM is probably going to say that the roads in west Dublin lead towards Limerick, or some such ****e, but for feck sake! They were probably stuck on the M50 going nowhere like all those other slaves who think location and commuting is more important than quality of life......

It's like Karl Spain's joke about a robbery in West Clare where the reporter said "the thieves left in the direction of Limerick"......as if there was only one place they could go on that road :rolleyes:

F**k's sake.....I GIVE UP!

As for the "Compared with Cork, Galway and Dublin, redevelopment in Limerick has also been relatively slow" rubbish, have they visited the city recently ? It's almost unrecognisable from 10 years ago.......

Pass the salt......I need a few grains to take with that rubbish. Next time I need loo roll I'm gonna buy the Guardian.....

motormouthmable

Nah, luv! MMM would say in the context of the whole article that the road leads towards Dublin. D'you understand the difference luv? Coming from, going to...

IF {A}="random newspaper name" THEN Karmafaerie "The {A} is well known to not research it's articles about Ireland, and instead just lift them from Irish papers."
SCNR

Karmafaerie

motormouthmable wrote:

Nah, luv! MMM would say in the context of the whole article that the road leads towards Dublin. D'you understand the difference luv? Coming from, going to...

IF {A}="random newspaper name" THEN Karmafaerie "The {A} is well known to not research it's articles about Ireland, and instead just lift them from Irish papers."
SCNR

If {A} = The Gaurdian, then that's what I said.


P.S: What area of Dublin are you from MMM?

Liam Byrne

I guess whatever is printed, anyone can make mistakes. While it'd be better if no-one printed rubbish, the strength of a paper is when it offers you a right to reply.

In this regard, I've got to hand it to The Irish Examiner; they had a great article last week about Limerick, but unfortunately they tarnished it with a poorly-thought-out sub-headline.

When I queried it, however, they were quick enough to print the letter; a huge contrast to the Sindo's approach when, after printing a much worse headline and and entire suppositionary and derogatory article last year, they refused to either reply, print the letter, or accept an invite to come on Live95 to discuss their reasoning......cowards!

As for MMM's pathetic attempt at implying that the guys arrested in Dublin were "coming from" Limerick......YAWN!......I guess he'll tell us next that following all 33 (34 ?) murders in Dublin last year, cars with armed hoodlums were seen speeding roughly in the direction of the M50, which links to the N7, and although same N7 passes through most of the midlands and branches off towards Cork halfway down, he has definitive proof that the same cars were seen 2 hours later passing Daly's Cross.........

Get real, man! There was no indication in the article that the guys mentioned had ANYTHING to do with Limerick.....mind you, to be fair, all you posted was that "MMM would say", which is no more than we'd expect from you at this stage, and the fact that you'd say it is a million miles from any possible chance that it might be true!

If you have proof of any such claim, post it, and I'll have no problem believing you - I don't ignore facts and figures. It is, however, just as (or even more) possible that they were Dublin thugs on their way to perform some tiger kidnapping or break into some unfortunate rural farmers' houses.......isn't it ? Or do you know otherwise ? If so, tell the Gardai; if not, STFU !

And God forbid that the guys involved were anywhere remotely near Dublin Airport; that could mean (in your reasoning) they were members of Al-Qaida and were heading back home to Afghanistan....... :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Here's the link to the relevant letter that the Examiner were good enough to print; I also love the heading that they put on it.

http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2007/02/01/story24361.asp