Big Brother - Danielle - F*** off home

kittex

julep wrote:

It's got to do with the fact that Jermaine obviously never even considered being with a white woman, judging by the tone of his voice and the swiftness of his responce when asked if his first wife was black

He got married when he was a teenager - he may have meant "of course, it was 25 years ago". Inter-racial marriages were really not common and he was talking about what it was like for him, at that time. He said he did everything his parents told him to - he may have been referring to their generational values, insisting he married a black woman.

julep wrote:

and also that Shilpa automaticially assumed that jermaine was not muslim because he is american.

You don't know why she assumed this. It could be she was surprised because Michael is always making Christian statements. Or because the Jackson family are not Muslim. Jermaine converted recently.

Terry

yeah, i see where you both are coming from on the black/ white relations in america 30 years ago. i had forgotten about that side of things. it was just the was Jermaine answered the question that threw me and the look on Shilpa's face when she realised that Jermaine was muslim.
also, what does it matter whether his wife was black or white or pink or whatever? the thing is that it shouldn't. w are being fed news reports that racism based on skin colour in virtually non existant in India, yet here is Shilpa asking about the colour of another persons skin.
then there's the caste system, but let's keep that one under the table.

anyway, on a lighter note, i was just flicking through the channels and saw an indian woman eating some rice and some meat with her hands on blue peter. mildly amusing considering recent events. they were actually in Oman, but i can see some of the dimmer viewers going 'oh look, Danielle was totally right'.

Lemming

kittex wrote:

The comments directed at Shilpa haven't been race based, however the comments the girls say behind her back, reveal an undercurrent of intolerance.

To give racism its more "official" title ... "racial intolerance".

Intolerance = intolerance. Which is exactly what racism is. A form of intolerance.

From watching youtube clips, there's been very little in the way of overt racism and a lot more of the subconscious, snide, sniping variety being thrown about. Which is much more sinister and malign.

So saying "the comments haven't been race-based" is misleading. Many comments have. Just not deliberately so.

scoot on

Lemming wrote:

To give racism its more "official" title ... "racial intolerance".

Intolerance = intolerance. Which is exactly what racism is. A form of intolerance.

From watching youtube clips, there's been very little in the way of overt racism and a lot more of the subconscious, snide, sniping variety being thrown about. Which is much more sinister and malign.

So saying "the comments haven't been race-based" is misleading. Many comments have. Just not deliberately so.

What about Jermaines comment that Jackie and Jade were "white trash"

Is that not racist?

Personally i think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion. I think it is a complete difference in culture that is causing the friction. On top of that it's probably Jades craving for attention that is driving her behaviour more so than any underlying racial believes!

CodeMonkey

scoot on wrote:

What about Jermaines comment that Jackie and Jade were "white trash"

Is that not racist?

Errrm, that's just biggotry towards a lower class of people based on the common behaviour of people from the background. Kinda like people's distaste towards scumbags or chavs like Jade. It's biggotry, not racism.

Fingleberries

To give racism its more "official" title ... "racial intolerance".

Intolerance = intolerance. Which is exactly what racism is. A form of intolerance.

OK, but while Racism is a form of intolerance not all forms of intolerance are Racism.
Not to take this into a different philosophical direction, but I do think that there is an important difference

If they were treating 'H', Cleo or Dirk in the same manner they would be considered Ignorant and Intollerant, but because they are treating Shilpa that way it is immediately classed as Racism. It's like any argument skips straight past calling them Intolerant and goes straight to Racist.

Note: I'm not defending them in any way. It makes me sick the way the three of them have behaved and I would feel exactly the same way if they had treated any of the other contestants with the same disdain.

Terry

CodeMonkey wrote:

Errrm, that's just biggotry towards a lower class of people based on the common behaviour of people from the background. Kinda like people's distaste towards scumbags or chavs like Jade. It's biggotry, not racism.

so it's bigotry if a black man calls someone white trash, but it's racism if a white peson says something insulting to someone with dark skin?

ok. that's sounds about right.

Lemming

julep wrote:

so it's bigotry if a black man calls someone white trash, but it's racism if a white peson says something insulting to someone with dark skin?

ok. that's sounds about right.

Learn the distinction julep.

The term "white trash" is a reference to a particular type of person; typically stereo-typed as being utterly, utterly pig ignorant and all too happy to wallow in it whilst making a spectacle of themselves in any given situation.

Calling someone a "poppadum" or a dog (in the context it was said), or the snide remarks about eating with ones hands and not knowing where they've been, or all indians being skinny because they undercook their food, etc. is a direct reference to culture or race. Which is racial intolerance.

And to answer a previous posters assertion/question; not all forms of intolerance are racial. But racism is a form of intolerance.

Incidentally, I agree that the whole thing is a storm in a tea-cup, but it's like watching a bad train-wreck. You can't help but look. Although it would be sweet, sweet, poetic justice if this spelled the end of several talentless f*cktards, and what little credibility this spawn-of-satan show (and its ilk) has with the lowest common denominator public (in that it's breaking its own rules to "help" certain contestants)

dSTAR

I was absolutely gob-smacked when I saw a clip of this incident on the news. The thing that really struck me was not just how trashy Danielle sounded but how she is allowed to stay in the house after such apparent racial vilification.

It again shows up how cheap and nasty Big Brother really is and how this form of racism never really went away but remains bubbling away below the surface. Irish people have long been on the receiving end of this particularly nasty stick and remarks like this should be shown up for what they are.

It is not that long since any Irish person in England were subjected to signs which read....

No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs!

when seeking accommodation. How different are this girls prejudicial remarks?

Terry

Lemming wrote:

Learn the distinction julep.

The term "white trash" is a reference to a particular type of person; typically stereo-typed as being utterly, utterly pig ignorant and all too happy to wallow in it whilst making a spectacle of themselves in any given situation.

Calling someone a "poppadum" or a dog (in the context it was said), or the snide remarks about eating with ones hands and not knowing where they've been, or all indians being skinny because they undercook their food, etc. is a direct reference to culture or race. Which is racial intolerance.

And to answer a previous posters assertion/question; not all forms of intolerance are racial. But racism is a form of intolerance.

Incidentally, I agree that the whole thing is a storm in a tea-cup, but it's like watching a bad train-wreck. You can't help but look. Although it would be sweet, sweet, poetic justice if this spelled the end of several talentless f*cktards, and what little credibility this spawn-of-satan show (and its ilk) has with the lowest common denominator public (in that it's breaking its own rules to "help" certain contestants)

The black alternative of "white trash" in America is "ghetto trash".
Do you honestly believe that anyone would get away with the term "black trash"?

My point here is that because of bleeding heart liberals, black on white racism is overlooked for fear of offending black people.

It seems to me that rather than the equality sought by people like Martin Luther King Jr., we now have a society where white people are allowed to be called racist names and not allowed to complain about it, but if you say anything wrong about a black person, then you are immediately labelled racist, not matter what the comment may be.
She's not black, but does have dark skin, but calling someone a dog in any context is not in the least bit racist. Crass? Yes, but definitely not racist.

as for the poppadom comment, I just put that down to Jade being a complete and utter eejit. Am I racist for saying that? after all, her father is black.

Cracker, anyone?

BaZmO*

dSTAR wrote:

It is not that long since any Irish person in England were subjected to signs which read....

No Blacks, No Irish, No Dogs!

And have we learned from this? Our recent treatment of immigrants in this country and indeed the Traveller community would suggest not. People can be ássholes in any country.

Livvie

Jade has been racist, but not intentionally or maliciously so. I don't think she's intelligent enough to understand how her remarks would be perceived. But she is a bully, and she should be taken to task for this.

Danielle is the worst racist in there, making remarks like "She wants to be white." She's really not a nice person - she laughed after the argument and said she enjoyed it, and praised Jade. If one of my friends behaved like a demented fishwife in public I'd be mortified. Jo wasn't much better, saying it made her day.

Shilpa has behaved with dignity throughout. OK, she might not be everyone's cup of tea, and some people think she acts superior, but at least she knows how to behave in public. I know who out of the four women involved, that I would prefer to see as a role model anyway. (Clue - she isn't English. )

Terry

BaZmO* wrote:

And have we learned from this? Our recent treatment of immigrants in this country and indeed the Traveller community would suggest not. People can be ássholes in any country.

Indeed.
I was in a cab last night and the conversation turned to work.
The driver informed me that his work was slow because the Poles are doing all the work now and they don't use cabs. "But the majority of them are not on sites. they are all doing factory work because it's a steady wage". Makes sense to me.
He then proceeded to tell me about the 17 years he had spent working in america.

assholes indeed.

dSTAR

julep wrote:

...The driver informed me that his work was slow because the Poles are doing all the work now and they don't use cabs...

Sounds all too familiar.

So now it is the Poles who are coming in here taking our jobs?

Its the very same here only it is Asian people stealing Aussie jobs. Never mind the fact that most Australians wouldn't be caught dead doing the work.

Flat out prejudice.

BaZmO*

Bloody foreigners coming over here taking the jobs we don't want!!!

Terry

I know. It's an absolute disgrace.

Mr.Nice Guy

BaZmO* wrote:

And have we learned from this? Our recent treatment of immigrants in this country and indeed the Traveller community would suggest not. People can be ássholes in any country.

Eh? What's wrong with our treatment of immigrants? I must have missed the race riots that have been widespread across this country.

Tens of thousands of immigrants come into this country every month and you don't see BNP-type groups over here running their mouths.

You're right - people can be ássholes in any country but I think we're far more tolerant than most of our European neighbours.

damnyanks

The uk has had people migrating there for decades, you have 3rd generation immigrants.

10 years ago very few immigrants came to Ireland. Even when I come back to Dublin I notice how "white" the place is.

So basically the uk has had time for its hate to get to the point of having people like the BNP etc. who knows what Ireland will be like.

Personally I'm not really surprised about Jade's antics. Her persona is within a minority of english people who activley make comments which they must link to nationality / race. Generally though the people who do it are sort of like jade

i.e either have self-confidence issues or not very inteligent - or at least giving that impression.

BaZmO*

Ever seen the front page of the Evening Herald? Or listening to a Taxi Driver in full flow? Or stood in a Chinese takeaway after chucking out time?

I'm not saying all Irish people are racist, just like I'm not saying all English people are racist too.

Racist behaviour is part of the the human psyche regardless of your geographical location, just like ássholes.

Mr.Nice Guy

BaZmO* wrote:

Ever seen the front page of the Evening Herald? Or listening to a Taxi Driver in full flow? Or stood in a Chinese takeaway after chucking out time?

I see what you're saying. Actually I've witnessed it up close a few times but it's not the mainstream Irish opinion, it's the odd Irish arsehole opinion.

BaZmO* wrote:

I'm not saying all Irish people are racist, just like I'm not saying all English people are racist too.

Fair enough but with your use of the words 'we' and 'our' you can see why I thought that's what you were saying. But I agree with your sentiments.

Livvie

Ignorance is at the root of most racism, but also fear plays a part don't you think?

Fear of your own world/beliefs/culture changing.

And I know that in the UK, terrorism has sparked massive fear and insecurity. My daughter got off a bus because there was a guy with Middle Eastern features got on with a rucksack. That wasn't racism, but sheer fear. You can try and explain that 99 per cent of people are normal human beings, but images of tube trains and buses blown to bits are hard to forget.

dr.bollocko

My God Jade has a face like an articulated truck.
Your daughter getting off of a bus because a man with Middle eastern features IS racism. Its intolerance of other races brought about by ignorance and fear propogated by the media, and attitudes to media reports spouted by morons like Jade truck face and Danielle. Its saying, anyone on a bus with middle-eastern features is likely to blow up this bus, because you know, we can't say it, but they're all probably terrorists. That's ridiculous.

Im sure I posted on this thread before. It seems to have disappeared. And now I dont know what to do.
Ho hum.

Livvie

dr.bollocko wrote:

My God Jade has a face like an articulated truck.
Your daughter getting off of a bus because a man with Middle eastern features IS racism. Its intolerance of other races brought about by ignorance and fear propogated by the media, and attitudes to media reports spouted by morons like Jade truck face and Danielle. Its saying, anyone on a bus with middle-eastern features is likely to blow up this bus, because you know, we can't say it, but they're all probably terrorists. That's ridiculous.

Im sure I posted on this thread before. It seems to have disappeared. And now I dont know what to do.
Ho hum.

I have to disagree. Well inasmuch as it wasn't intentional racism - she certainly has no problem with other nationalities and cultures. It was fear, pure and simple - not because she thinks that every one with middle eastern features is a terrorist, but because of the fear that this one could have been. It was irrational maybe, but it was shortly after 7/7, and a boy in her boyfriends class at school had been killed.

It's like a fear of flying - you know that the majority of planes are going to arrive safely, but there's always a nagging doubt that yours might be the one that doesn't.

But of course, it isn't a good way to be, and it's how terrorism thrives - by instilling doubts and fears.

dr.bollocko

But it's an irrational fear based on a person of different race's presence on public transport. IE her behaviour is motivated based on her stored knowledge of Middle-eastern men. Her stored knowledge is Middle-east = bomber, which is acting based on racist and unrealistic conclusions.

Livvie

dr.bollocko wrote:

But it's an irrational fear based on a person of different race's presence on public transport. IE her behaviour is motivated based on her stored knowledge of Middle-eastern men. Her stored knowledge is Middle-east = bomber, which is acting based on racist and unrealistic conclusions.

Irrational - absolutely.

But it's sadly understandable too.

Fear makes people irrational, especially children and teens.

greine

Livvie wrote:

Irrational - absolutely.

But it's sadly understandable too.

Fear makes people irrational, especially children and teens.

It's up to parents/adults to act and speak rationally to our kids and to discuss these matters with them. Children are often open to irrational and biased exposure through the media or their peers and form these irrational conclusions themselves. Without proper discussion/debate they will believe the hype and then worry and become fearful, it's up to us to educate and lead by example, good example.

padi89

Eh eeermmmm back on the Danielle subject...So i flicked on the live feed this morning and there is Danillle and Jo laughing away with Shilpa like everything is completly rosey.It made my blood boil watching it:mad: Hadnt Danille said she cant stand the sound of Shilpas laugh and that she is a fvcking bitch???? Its obvious the three girls have been advised on what is happening on the outside and now Danielle is doing some serious sucking up.I suppose the fact that the ring leader is gone now she isnt so cocky,typical school girl ****e.Im just hoping people dont forget now what she is REALLY like.

Ghost Train

i dont see somebody getting off a bus because they don't like the look of somebody else on the bus as racism. It fear, or freewill and not wanting to be in a certain situation for what ever reason, the person could look threatening for a dozan different reasons and thats fear.

What was said in the bb house were racist comments, so in my eyes its racism, even if the comments weren't meant that way, and they shouldn't have been bullying shilpa and slagging her off in the first place. It will be a long time before anyone forgets how the other girls acted too. I still havn't seen jo express any remorse for the way she treated shilpa

the_syco

I was waiting for BB to go this way. Happens every time. They throw an assortment of people in that will cause friction, and bingo, lots of publicity.

Not sure if they haven't done it yet or not, but how about a gay, a homophobe, a black and a KKK member. And 6 other randomers. Should be about as crap as it is now. Lots of people will watch it, tho.

Livvie

eolhc wrote:

i dont see somebody getting off a bus because they don't like the look of somebody else on the bus as racism. It fear, or freewill and not wanting to be in a certain situation for what ever reason, the person could look threatening for a dozan different reasons and thats fear.

What was said in the bb house were racist comments, so in my eyes its racism, even if the comments weren't meant that way, and they shouldn't have been bullying shilpa and slagging her off in the first place. It will be a long time before anyone forgets how the other girls acted too. I still havn't seen jo express any remorse for the way she treated shilpa

About the bus thing - absolutely. A racist would just have changed seats, and that is far more unacceptable I think. This subject is so interesting though - terrorism and its effects on racism - is there another topic on the board about it, as its off topic here I know.

The papers are saying things that might or might not be true - you can never tell with the Press. Did Danielle really say that she didn't want to touch food prepared by Shilpa because she didn't know where her hands had been?? Pretty on the outside, ugly on the inside.