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Which Dog

bennyc

My wife and I have decided to get a dog , we live in the country and are surrounded by Sheep usually 300 in the next two fields. We have more than enough space on our land for a large dog to move play exercise with the family
What I need to know ,

are the electronic invisible fences safe for animals and any good. Would the dog still have to be tied during the day.

We have two kids so would require a friendly dog.
I would prefer a larger dog and had a labrador in mind.

Any advise would be appreicated.

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peasant

While the electronic fences are better than no fence at all, having had one for a while my advice is to get a proper fence ...especially with the temptation of 300 frolicking sheep in the vicinity.

As this is your first dog, I would recommend that you get a grown one from a rescue. This would have two advantages:

- you and yours could have a good look at the "finished article" and assess the dog and how it would fit into your family ... or not, as the case may be.

- the rescue could re-home a large dog, which sometimes are a bit hard to find owners for.

fits

bennyc wrote:

My wife and I have decided to get a dog , we live in the country and are surrounded by Sheep usually 300 in the next two fields. We have more than enough space on our land for a large dog to move play exercise with the family
What I need to know ,

are the electronic invisible fences safe for animals and any good. Would the dog still have to be tied during the day.

We have two kids so would require a friendly dog.
I would prefer a larger dog and had a labrador in mind.

Any advise would be appreicated.

perhaps you could build a small run for the dog with a nice cosy kennel in it if you dont want to keep the dog inside during the day. Tieing them up isnt ideal.

Sigma Force

Get a proper dog run the elec. fences can work but there is a risk of the dog bolting if they are really after something they may be oblivious to the shock in the heat of the chase. The dog needs to be trained to use the fence. Also it will not prevent other dogs from coming in.

Farm relief services and various other companies can build a fence to fence off part or all of the property.
Don't bother getting a dog if you are going to tie it up. Tieing is not secure in the long run, risk of choking, theft or the dog will get frustrated.

Google Cill Dara animal enclosures or Hayes dog runs (in golden pages)

A large dog doesn't mean he will be happy running around a large garden, mostly he will just sit by the door waiting for someone to come out and play.
Labradors are hard work but can be good pets.

Mabey visiting a rescue would be an idea there are tons and tons of pure bred and cross bred labs available.
But you need to fence off the place securely.

Glowing

You seem like the perfect candidate for a retired Greyhound! There are so many of them that need homes, and they make wonderful pets. They're fantastic with children and don't need as much excercise as you think!
Don't shrug off the idea immediately, please read up about it online, or go to one of the overcrowded shelters who keep Greys for rehoming.
www.paws.ie (hasn't been updated in a while)
www.irishanimals.ie

Good luck!

fits

Glowing wrote:

You seem like the perfect candidate for a retired Greyhound! There are so many of them that need homes, and they make wonderful pets. They're fantastic with children and don't need as much excercise as you think!
Don't shrug off the idea immediately, please read up about it online, or go to one of the overcrowded shelters who keep Greys for rehoming.
www.paws.ie (hasn't been updated in a while)
www.irishanimals.ie

Good luck!

or a lurcher... I've got two of them. They are really calm indoors. Fantastic with my nieces and nephews and helped them get over their fear of dogs. They dont need as much exercise as other dogs. I didnt have any housetraining to do with my two rescues either.

And they're beautiful...

Glowing

Aww bless.
Heres a good article on keeping Greyhounds and Lurchers as pets:
http://irishanimals.ie/greyhounds/index.html

bennyc

Thanks for the replies, firstly I had the impression that keeping a dog in a dog run for 8 hours a day wouldnt be fair on the animal and as I have a half acre garden would have given the dog more freedom. I see the points about the electronic fence as if he make a bolt for it thenwould be past the fence. At the minute I do have sheep wire around the house which keeps the sheep out but when they get in via open gate the crafty buggers are able to jump to get out as lawn is on a height which wouldnt stop a dog getting out. As well as the 300 odd sheep there are also a lot of hares in the same fields and I think the Farmer wouldnt have an issue using his shotgun on anything that moves in his field so extra consideration on this.

Looking at the retired greyhounds and reading some sotries they do seem like a very sensible option espically the amount that are currently seeking good homes.

Basically this is not a new idea we have had as we lived in an estate for the last 7 years and only moved into our new home in the last 12 months we always said wqe would get a dog that we would allow some asccess to the house when we had space.

peasant

bennyc wrote:

Thanks for the replies, firstly I had the impression that keeping a dog in a dog run for 8 hours a day wouldnt be fair on the animal and as I have a half acre garden would have given the dog more freedom.

Does that mean that the dog(s) would be unsupervised for 8 hours per day?

Going by my experience, that's probably not going to work

We have half an acre fenced in for our three dogs and we live rather rural as well. The dog run (can't really call it a garden) is bordered by the house on one side, one field one two sides, and another field behind a hedge on the last side.

The field behind the hedge regularly either contains working farm machinery or cattle. The field that borders on two sides usually has three cows with their calves in it ...they have recently been replaced with horses. And beyond that field, but still well within sight (and smell) are about 100 sheep.

You would not believe the amount of times that my wife (who is home all day) has to go out there to stop the dogs from barking at the assorted animals or bring them in altogether because they have worked themselves into a frenzy "chasing" animals from behind the fence.

They do get played with and entertained, so they're not bored. But left alone for a while (to do some housework for example) one of the surrounding animals will do something that "merits" the next barking or running frenzy in the eyes of at least one of our dogs ...and once one starts, the others will join in sooner or later.

What I'm trying to say is that with one or several unsupervised dog(s) on one side of the fence and three hundred sheep on the other ....8 hours is an awful lot of time for all sorts of wrong things to happen.

fits

I dont wish to advocate leaving dogs alone unsupervised for 8 hours.. But I can leave my two lurchers perfectly happy for that length of time. And most people with lurchers find that as long as they get sufficient exercise and mental stimulation, they can be ok. Obviously not all lurchers or dogs are the same. I know my two are fine because I live in a terraced house and am friendly with my neighbours. They get half an hours exercise in the morning and up to an hour in the evening with a ramble up the mountains at weekends. They live inside all the time so they have our company all evening.
A more placid breed rather than the boxers, collies and even some labradors would be a good idea. And I'd definitely get an adult dog, leaving a puppy on its own for 8 hours makes it far too difficult to train. Smooth coated greyhounds might find it a bit cold living outside.

Glowing

Most of the greyhound/lurcher rehoming centres won't actually release the dog to you unless you plan to sleep them indoors. They're not great at handling extreme temperatures so will need somewhere sheltered with a soft bed to sleep in (like a utility room perhaps). They're used to living in kennels/crates and will not usually soil their 'bedroom's.
We leave our two at home during the day, and to be honest, they sleep for most of it! They get up at 9 with the family, have their breakfast, then retire back to bed! - they have dog-flap so can go in and out as they choose.

cold_filter

I'd have to agree with not getting a puppy if your gonna leave it alone for 8 hours. Puppies need attention and stimulation to grow into well behaved adult dogs. If its left for alone 8 hours then only has a couple of hours of time in the evening, then its left alone when you go to bed its not fair.

Proper training will stop your dog from chasing animals, i had a german shepherd puppy and took a firm hand with him from the start as he tended to get into hunting mode when he seen children, as a puppy this wasnt a problem now hes fully grown it would be.
I can now bring him to mayo and let him go into the field behind my girlfriends house (hes surrounded on 3 sides by sheep and cows he will not go beyond the fence) I'd recommend an actual fence rather than an electronic one.

If you get a shelter dog you will not know how he has been treted by previous owners this could be dangerous if you get a large dog and have small children.

EDIT** I should say no matter what dog you get aslong as you treat with respect and love you will get that in return, sometimes i prefer the company of my dog to my girlfriend!!

fits

cold_filter wrote:

If you get a shelter dog you will not know how he has been treted by previous owners this could be dangerous if you get a large dog and have small children.

Thats complete Bo**ocks! A good rescue will have tested the dog out in a foster home and in many situations before rehoming. Dogs should always be supervised with young children anyway, rescues or not.
My two rescues are angels with children.

Sigma Force

A good rescue will not just hand you any old dog they will assess the dog and the owner and see what they can come up with and try to find the best match possible.
Tbh if you are going to be gone 8 hours a day a radio fence is not ideal if there is a trigger happy farmer on the loose even worse.
Your job as a dog owner is to keep your pet safe, a large dog run does not have to be boring. At the end of the day a loose dog will either end up wandering or sit by the door while you are gone anyway.

A proper warm kennel raised off the ground, suited to the size of the dog.
A large non tip water bowl and food.
Kongs and other strong toys will help with any boredom issues.

If you have that much land you can make a dog run as big as you like.

But if you think about it if you are gone for 8 hours a day and sleep 8 hours a night that leaves only 8 hours of time with the dog a dayand 2 hours of that will easily be taken away with doing other non dog realated things. So all in all the dog may only get 6 hours attention a day, for a lone dog that can be boring wether they are in a run or loose.

If you get a shelter dog you will not know how he has been treted by previous owners this could be dangerous if you get a large dog and have small children

What a load of twaddle, any decent rescue will not home a dangerous dog!
Rescues don't need that kind of scare mongering they have a hard enough job cleaning up other peoples mess as it is.

Either way a dog must be kept under control at all times I guess a radio fence is better than nothing at all.
However I would think strongly about a run, it does give peace of mind.

Btw will the dog be allowed in the house at all?

bennyc

Good reading here a lot to take on , OK heres a few points

The dog will be allowed in the house with access to most if not all areas depending on the breed amount of hair left behind etc.
I would prefer to rehome a dog and a greyhound is the front runner at the moment form the research (and the horror stories) . I see that one of my local sherters will actually come out and survey my home before making a decision on what dog if any may be suitable.
The farmer is probably not trigger happy but that is the approach and opinion I will keep in mind as he has his flock and business to protect.
The 8 hours a day is not a realistic time alone for the animal but again at this point in time would be the case 2 days a week.

So I am thinking of a dog which will stay indoors and a run for the good weather again depending on the breed. I would prefer to have a run and take no chances with next door if the dog needs some fresh air.

fits

bennyc wrote:

So I am thinking of a dog which will stay indoors and a run for the good weather again depending on the breed. I would prefer to have a run and take no chances with next door if the digs needs some fresh air.

Sounds absolutely perfect:D What a lucky dog.. If you want some websites about greyhounds/lurchers and their training, you can pm me.

artieanna

I have to say well done bennyc

for the thought you are putting into getting a dog....I wish everyone was so thorough when choosing a new dog...

Please ensure that the dog is neutered/spayed when you get her/him as this will reduce the likelyhood of straying especially in males......

Good luck I hope you get a great buddy.....

Jotter

fits wrote:

Thats complete Bo**ocks! A good rescue will have tested the dog out in a foster home and in many situations before rehoming. Dogs should always be supervised with young children anyway, rescues or not.
My two rescues are angels with children.

While I dont want to put anyone off getting a rescue dog bec theres some real gems, the above statement is not true and I know from experience. While rescues will do their best to find out temperment of dogs its not always possible to know what went on in their past. I was bitten by a neighbours rescue dog when I was about 12. I had met the dog before and had no problems he let me rub belly etc and was fine with me, I was raised around dogs so was at ease with him but he just took a dislike to me after that day and one day soon after he bit me. Ive done courses in animal behaviour and to this day I cant put my finger on what provoked him, except that I was scared when he growled so turned my back to go into house which is why he actually attacked instead of just warning. Anyway the only thing anyone could think of was that I reminded the dog in some way of someone who treated him badly bec he was a lovely dog to everyone else. The adult owner was there at the time so supervision isnt always a deterrant and this guy is a very experienced dog owner. If you have children and are getting a dog, research the breed well, for cross breeds research both breeds if you know them, and get a pup so you know history and you can socialise them well with the children, best to get it at about 10 weeks, socialise well before 16 weeks and check temperment of mother, both parents if possible. You can get pups from rescue groups so you would still be doing a good turn. In fact dogsaid wont home an adult dog to a family with young children, its not fair on the dog if something goes wrong and obviously your kids are your priority.
best of luck with the search, if youre kids are teenagers then obviously you can get adult dog, but I wouldnt get one if the children are young.

Just for the record, the fact that I was bitten by a rescue dog wouldnt put me off getting one, its only if you have young kids that Id go for a pup, rescue dogs in general are fine and most will be forever thankful to you for taking them in, its just with young kids you need to take precautions!

fits

Jotter wrote:

While I dont want to put anyone off getting a rescue dog bec theres some real gems, the above statement is not true and I know from experience.

What is 'not true' about it??

A good rescue will evaluate a family and their circumstances before they rehome a dog. They wont give a young family an untested dog straight out of the pound. In some cases it is better to give a family with young children a pup rather than an adult dog, in some cases it may be different. I found Cold Filter's statement overly general and may put off some less well-informed people from homing rescue dogs, a job which is difficult enough as it is.

peasant

Sorry, bennyc, for leading your thread off topic, but there are a few very sweeping statements in Jotter's post that go begging for a reply.

- Rescue dogs have "issues"
Correct, but in most of the cases the "issue" is that they were surplus to requirements ...nothing more. They might lack a bit of training, because nobody put the effort in, but nothing that can't be put right.
Any rescue worthy of the name will match dogs and owners and will not give out unsuitable dogs ...they'd only be getting them back.

- A puppy is best when you have children
A puppy will have very little trouble fitting into existing circumstances, as it grows up with them. But a puppy is an awful lot of hard work ...work that you might not want/need on top of raising your kids. An older rescue dog dog will generally be housetrained and have some of the basics.

- Researching the breed will tell you what you get
Only to a very limited degree (size, looks, etc). Dogs are individuals first and foremost. They cannot read, especially not the breed description that some enthusiastic breeder made up for his or her merchandise

- rescued dogs will be "forever grateful"
Forget about that one:D Dogs (rescue or otherwise) are never "grateful" ...they might let you know if they enjoyed that particular treat or belly rub, but that's about it. Other than that they will just be out to get (away with) as much of everything as they possibly can ...they're dogs!

Jotter

cold_filter wrote:

If you get a shelter dog you will not know how he has been treted by previous owners this could be dangerous if you get a large dog and have small children.

To which Fits replied - thats bollocks

This is what isnt true Fits. Cold Filters statement is not bollocks as you put it and I told you my experience. The majority of rescue dogs are great and this dog Im referring to was tested by the shelter it came from which is why noone could understand why it turned aggressive. The fact that it was only aggressive to me however would indicate some mistreatment in the past that it associated with me for whatever reason and it is bec of this experience that I would be inclined to say to people with young children to get a pup. Yes they are hard work and require as much time as a baby but personally I think its worth it to ensure the dog you get is as child friendly as can possibly be bec theyll be socialised with the children from a young age. The dog that bit me was put to sleep as he was deemed to be unfit to rehome by both the vet and the shelter as a result of the incident. This is something that I feel terrible about to this day as I know that his behaviour problem could most likely have been solved by a behaviourist and at least he could have been rehomed again to a family with no children.
Again Im not saying dont get a rescue dog, my granny had a rescue dalmation who was lovely right to the end and had no probs around kids, its just that PERSONALLY i think that pups are better suited in this case and anyone that has kids wont mind putting in the time with a pup to try to ensure a happy harmonius canine/human family life. Again this is my experience as I have a 5 month old and am looking for a pup - in shelters - and will have a baby sitter on hand for the first few weeks so I can put the time and effort required into our new addition - the dog, not the baby!!!

fits

Jotter wrote:

To which Fits replied - thats bollocks

This is what isnt true Fits. Cold Filters statement is not bollocks as you put it and I told you my experience.

Cold Filter's statement implied that shelter dogs are not safe with children. The statement was not qualified. Cold Filter said that any family with young children should not get a rescue dog as it is unsafe.

I disagree with that statement. And I do think its bo**ocks although I regret that language now, since it has been quoted so many times.

I am in no way saying that all rescue dogs are safe as houses with children. I'll say this again, a good rescue will evaluate the animal and home and come up with the best possible match. This may mean getting a puppy for families with young children, and it may not.

You havent given us much detail about your biting incident, therefore I am disinclined to take that as evidence supporting anything.

Jotter

fits wrote:

And I do think its bo**ocks although I regret that language now, since it has been quoted so many times.

lol I was just coming in to edit that word out of my post as I wasnt sure if it would be deemed as bad language or not!

I get what youre saying but you have to also see where Im coming from, its not always possible to ensure that dogs and kids are compatible. Some dogs are great with all kids some dogs are selective about which kids they like and some dogs just dont like kids! The shelters can get a good idea of the personality of the dog but they cant give you a 100% guarantee and I think kids are too important to risk it, not to mention the fact that the dog will be pts if something does happen.

My biting incident was partly my fault hence the guilt as I turned my back on him when he growled and I knew this was the wrong thing to do but as a kid I panicked and wanted to get inside asap. I was right beside back door so I thought I could get in on time but he got me between shoulder blades. Wasnt a bad bite but he broke skin and that was enough for him to be pts which is an awful shame. The events leading up to this was I met the dog on his first day in my friends garden, we played with dog no problems, I came to the house a few days later with my sis, he growled at me at gate was fine with my sis, we told this to the owner who said hed keep an eye to see if it was once off as the dog was still settling in, no probs with dog for next few days he palyed with all neighbourhood kids then a few days later I went to get a loan of bicycle pump, went into back garden with owner, dog was fine wagging tail etc owner went to walk off and the dog growled and I stupidly turned my back and was bitten, end of doggie.

anyway Im staying away from this thread as its gone off topic - sorry bennyc!!
Let us know what dog you do get!

fits

Jotter wrote:

The shelters can get a good idea of the personality of the dog but they cant give you a 100% guarantee and I think kids are too important to risk it, not to mention the fact that the dog will be pts if something does happen.

But dogs, children and 100% guarantees just dont come together. I'm sure there as many incidents of known-origin dogs biting children as there are of rescue dogs. There are just so many factors involved in aggression. There could be pain, poor-training (of children as well as dogs), poor supervision. Sweeping generalisations that shelter dogs are unsafe are unhelpful and misleading.

In your particular incident, the dog showed aggression at a very early stage, which would lead one to believe he was never 'road-tested' before being rehomed. I dont actually believe the incident was your fault. The owner and the rescue were at fault . What was the owner doing letting an unknown dog play out on the street with his neighbours children anyway?

Sorry Bennyc for going so far off topic, but I'm sure this is all part of the learning process.

Jotter

Jotter wrote:

personally I think its worth it to ensure the dog you get is as child friendly as can possibly be bec theyll be socialised with the children from a young age. !

OMG I know I said I wasnt going to come back on here but it bugs me when people dont read posts properly or when my posts are misinterpreted.

What I ment by my above quote was that Im well aware that no dog or animal or for that matter person is 100% child friendly, but if the dog is socialised from an early age with kids then it will have a better chance bec itll be used to children and their ways.
Hope it clears that up.

The dog that bit me was in the back garden at all times, it was my friends dog, children play with other children mostly in gardens. Hope that mystery is solved.

Look at dogsaid website youll see that they dont rehome adult dogs to families with young kids - www.dogsaid.ie. I presume this is bec its as much in the dogs interest that hes not put in a position where he could snap at a kid and be put down or sent back to shelter as it is for the parents of the child. All shelters do their best but the very odd time dogs are returned for a variety of reasons, theyre not infallible.

I said it before and Ill say it again - theres nothing wrong with rescue dogs but you have to be careful when theres young kids - kids are kids and dogs are dogs, neither understands the other so therefore caution needs to be taken.

Now if youll excuse me I have things to do that dont involve arguing for the sake of it over the internet.

Dilbert75

IMO, some dogs will be unfriendly / agressive, some will be friendly / gentle. That applies throughout the dog population, not just to rescues.

OP, wrt your question on radio fences, there was a discussion recently on Pets Ireland about them - general consensus was in favour of a decent sized run, rather than a radio fence or tying out.

Pets Ireland is a great resource for anyone interested in pets - I'd recommend it before you make a final decision. Also lots of links there to dogs needing urgent homes.