Driving with Full beams on Motorways

Saruman

With the new motorways we have around the country, most of which are unlit i have noticed a lot of drivers just driving along and not switching off their high beams when a car comes in the opposite direction.
Maybe they think the other driver cant see it or they do not care because there is a barrier but its just the same as being blinded on a normal national road.

The M4 and new N6 dual carriageway are prime examples!! Its a pain in the ass... or eyes If someone is particularly blinding i will put mine on and they usually get the message so i turn mine off then. I know its tit for tat (and against the rules of the road even) but its the only way people will learn.

Bard

People do it on the M1 at night time too. These roads should be properly lit in the first place. I don't have a problem with people putting on their full beams on the motorway, as long as they flick back to standard heads when faced with oncoming traffic or come up behind someone - but, as we all know, people are stupid/ignorant.

Saruman

No problem with it as long as they change back myself... though in fairness i see absolutly no reason to ever use high beams on a motorway with the exception of lighting up an upcoming sign. I can see perfectly fine for kilometeres with ordinary headlights.

peasant

Have any of you ever driven on a Belgian motorway at night?

They have their motorways fully lit, a lamp every 50 metres or so.

Geez, it does your head in ....bright light, dim light, bright light, dim light... kind of like the ta-tum, ta-tum on an old fashoned train, only in your eyes instead of your ears.

After a while your eyes go all funny and you sart seeing things, doesn't help concentration one bit.

So, for me, thankyouverymuch, no lighting on motorways please ...I'd rather get annoyed by the occasional oncomer with their full beams on than have that psychedelic Belgian experience

Alun

peasant wrote:

Have any of you ever driven on a Belgian motorway at night?

Yes, many, many times ... usually when racing back to the UK from Germany at something like 3am. I never had a problem with it at all personally, on the contrary in fact. Having said that I was usually going at least 180km/h, so maybe you just needed to go faster to increase the frequency a bit

unkel

There is no need for full beams on any motorway in this country when not driving above the speed limit. If there is, the driver needs glasses

I find the lights on all motorways in Belgium quite good myself, but I usually do at least twice the speed of a campervan

Hotblack Desiato

unkel wrote:

There is no need for full beams on any motorway in this country when not driving above the speed limit. If there is, the driver needs glasses

If your dipped beams go as far as the stopping distance from 120km/h, they're set illegally high! OR your perception of how much vision you need to have to be safe and how long it takes to stop is seriously off.

There wouldn't be a problem with main beams on a motorway if the NRA had a clue and included French-style bits of plastic at right angles to the direction of travel. They form a very effective barrier to lights in the distance but you can still see across the motorway. This would be far preferable to expensively lighting up the whole motorway. Only junctions need to be lit.

I would not dip if I was in lane 1 with nothing in front of me and the oncoming traffic was in lane 1. They'd simply not be in my beam pattern and I wouldn't be happy doing 120km/h on a dipped beam. So if I did dip I'd slow down.

unkel

ninja900 wrote:

If your dipped beams go as far as the stopping distance from 120km/h, they're set illegally high! OR your perception of how much vision you need to have to be safe and how long it takes to stop is seriously off

Interesting point. Firstly, let's presume my dipped beams are set correctly. I have never failed an NCT for incorrect beam alignment

Secondly, @120km/h my stopping distance would be what, about 60-80m? Surely I can see 60-80m in front of me with dipped beams?

As to best practice, I have to give that one to the Belgians...

Spit62500

unkel wrote:

Interesting point. Firstly, let's presume my dipped beams are set correctly. I have never failed an NCT for incorrect beam alignment

Secondly, @120km/h my stopping distance would be what, about 60-80m? Surely I can see 60-80m in front of me with dipped beams?

As to best practice, I have to give that one to the Belgians...

http://www.lireland.com/theory/stopping.htm

According to this (the first that I could find), stopping distance in wet conditions would be a total of 184m (24m reaction time plus 160m stopping time). That's for a car, not an SUV or truck. Maybe the official DOE figures are different but I can't think that they'd be that different.

Just after the start of the M9 as you leave the M7 heading towards, say, Athy, not only is it pitch dark but there's a sign warning that deer may be wandering around that stretch of road. While you may spot a vehicle with reflectors in the distance, you won't spot debris on the road or a deer while you're using dipped lights at the legal speed limit. To make matters worse, there's a bend at the start of that road too so you can't use headlights without pointing them directly at traffic going in the opposite direction. A couple of weeks ago, I came across a spare wheel from a truck on that stretch - practically impossible to spot in the dark even on full beams.

Hagar

ninja900 wrote:

There wouldn't be a problem with main beams on a motorway if the NRA had a clue and included French-style bits of plastic at right angles to the direction of travel. They form a very effective barrier to lights in the distance but you can still see across the motorway.

These are very effective indeed. They are fitted to the top of median barrier... oh wait, I forget they don't put median barriers on all motorways in Ireland because people drive magic cars that can be stopped by the scrawny bits of bushes planted where the median barriers would be in all the countries where the laws of physics apply.

Drax

Saruman wrote:

I can see perfectly fine for kilometeres with ordinary headlights.

That must be some set of lights you got there Saruman...

Seth Brundle

Spit62500 wrote:

http://www.lireland.com/theory/stopping.htm

According to this (the first that I could find), stopping distance in wet conditions would be a total of 184m (24m reaction time plus 160m stopping time). That's for a car, not an SUV or truck. Maybe the official DOE figures are different but I can't think that they'd be that different.

The Irish stopping distances match the UK ones which were calculated yonks ago using a Ford Anglia which had all round drum brakes. Do you really think it takes that much to stop now?

jayok

kbannon wrote:

The Irish stopping distances match the UK ones which were calculated yonks ago using a Ford Anglia which had all round drum brakes. Do you really think it takes that much to stop now?

From Autocar tests done in Jan 10th 2001 the average stopping distance of a typical modern car at 70mph (112km/hr) is 76m (including drivers response time) in good conditions.

Full-beam, allows you to see about 100m ahead of you. Dipped beams about 30m (look at ninja900's sig)

Problem is people don't seem to understand just how far 76 meters actually is! Also in typical driving conditions (not testing circumstances) few drivers scan the furthest proximity of their range (i.e. 75+ meters) instead focusing on the conformatable 50-60 meter range.

So at night doing the 120 km/hr on Dipped beams on a motorway where you stopping distance WILL be greater than 76m you are basically driving blind.

Yes, I use full-beams on the motorway when possible this includes if I am in the driving lane and the opposite traffic is also in the driving lane. It also includes if I am turning on a slow bend and my beam pattern is pointing away from the median into my hard-shoulder. But this notion is beyond most people.

unkel wrote:

There is no need for full beams on any motorway in this country when not driving above the speed limit

If you want to drive on Dips on a motorway you will need to limit yourself to about 70km/hr just to ensure you can stop in time. Now that's another problem.

HelterSkelter

unkel wrote:

There is no need for full beams on any motorway in this country when not driving above the speed limit. If there is, the driver needs glasses

Really? If you are driving at 112kmh then the stopping distance is 97m on a dry road, according to http://www.lireland.com/theory/stopping.htm. Can you see 97m ahead with your dipped lights?

embraer170

In Germany it's illegal to use full beams on the motorway, not sure about France etc.

jayok

embraer170 wrote:

In Germany it's illegal to use full beams on the motorway, not sure about France etc.

I thought on only on lit sections of the motorway.

Seth Brundle

jayok wrote:

embraer170 wrote:

In Germany it's illegal to use full beams on the motorway, not sure about France etc.

I thought on only on unlit sections of the motorway.

Don't you mean lit sections?

unkel

I'm not sure what the law is in Germany, but from many years of night time driving on motorways across the continent, having full beams on is just not done generally

jayok wrote:

So at night doing the 120 km/hr on Dipped beams on a motorway where you stopping distance WILL be greater than 76m you are basically driving blind

I'll accept that driving at a certain speed on motorways, the stopping distance is greater than the view one has - dipped beams or full beams. Is that so bad?

Blazer

I know when you're driving in France it's mandatory to fit a kind of sticker to each headlamp so when the fulls are on the light only shines dead straight ahead and not wide of the car..must look them up again and post the link

..ah they we go...Headlamp converters are compulsory.

http://driving.drive-alive.co.uk/driving-in-france.htm

Hagar

Mathew Reilly wrote:

I know when you're driving in France it's mandatory to fit a kind of sticker to each headlamp so when the fulls are on the light only shines dead straight ahead and not wide of the car..must look them up again and post the link

..ah they we go...Headlamp converters are compulsory.

http://driving.drive-alive.co.uk/driving-in-france.htm

But not for LHD cars. That is just to stop RHD car beams aiming to the left, oncoming traffic, while driving on the right.

jayok

unkel wrote:

I'll accept that driving at a certain speed on motorways, the stopping distance is greater than the view one has - dipped beams or full beams. Is that so bad?

Driving at a speed that means you'll stop further than you can see is bad, very bad.

jayok

kbannon wrote:

Don't you mean lit sections?

Opps. Yep I meant lit - edited this now.

unkel

jayok wrote:

Driving at a speed that means you'll stop further than you can see is bad, very bad.

Why is it very bad?

Hagar

Because if you see an un-avoidable obstacle on the road it's already too late to brake.


/edit Typo

jayok

unkel wrote:

Why is it very bad?

Imagine for a moment that you are on a motorway at night driving along at 120 km/hr. Your current braking distance is now say 100 odd meters. For the purposes of demonstration you are on dipped headlights. You are within the law by all accounts.

With your 30 meters of vision from your dipped headlights an obstacle lies ahead. Say a loose horse, a shedded tire, a pile up. You will not see this obstacle on him and if you apply the brakes at the right time, you've a further 70 (100-30) meters to travel before coming a halt. Unfortunately the obstacle in the way is at a dead stop (tire, horse, etc). As you are 30 meters you will impact with the object with all that energy to dissipate (as you intended to travel a further 70 meters). It is likely that injury will occur to either or both parties from the collision and significant chaos, pain, hassle will endure. May be it's just me, but this is very bad.

HelterSkelter

Holy **** man, have people driving no common sense at all? I can't believe people are wondering why it is very bad to be driving at 120kmh and not know what is ahead. Might as well be driving with their eyes closed. No wonder there are so many accidents on our roads at night.

Actually has anyone heard about people driving with their lights turned off in the country areas? What is that all about?

unkel

The world would be a safer place if every single driver would do about 50km/h on motorways at night. Or just stay at home in bed

In practice, are all of you that advocate this stopping distance rule saying hundreds of millions of continental drivers are wrong?

To avoid obstacles, in the vast majority of cases it is not necessary to come to a complete stop. Unless of course the full width of the motorway including hard shoulder and central reserve is blocked. About as likely as being hit by a meteorite

Hotblack Desiato

unkel wrote:

Why is it very bad?

Unbelieveable!

The golden rule of safe driving is to ALWAYS be able to stop safely in the distance you can see to be clear.

HelterSkelter

unkel wrote:

To avoid obstacles, in the vast majority of cases it is not necessary to come to a complete stop. Unless of course the full width of the motorway including hard shoulder and central reserve is blocked. About as likely as being hit by a meteorite

So you are driving in the motorway in the driving lane at 120kmh (at night) and suddenly you see a horse right in front of you. Do you seriously think you (or the majority of other drivers) can swerve to avoid the horse without skidding and losing control?

Your ignorance is shocking. I think you should go into the council today and give your licence back.

Hagar

Don't mind him. That was his 7500th post (congrats), he's just winding us up.
Aren't you? Please say yes.

ScumLord

I don't care what I'm allowed to get away with under the law I'll treat a moterway like any other road. High beams on until I have to dip them. I like to be able to see whats off to the side and whats miles off, not just whats within stoping distance of the car. Especially on motorways where your concentration level isn't as high.

People might be more likely to forget they have highbeams on when using the motorway give em a flash to let them know very few mean to give you the high beam. Whats the problem?