Bullfight - bull gets his own back

HelterSkelter

http://news.sky.com/skynews/video/videoplayer/0,,31200-bull_240107_0900,00.html

Was really happy to see this, the bull managed to gore one of the cowardly bullfighters. My only regret is the bull didn't manage to do more damage to him.

What do you all think of bull fighting? Have you ever seen a bull fight? I think they are totally disgusting and so unfair to the bull. The bull has no chance whatsoever. Basically it's 15 mins of torturing the bull to death.

ferdi

yeah bullfighting is despicable.

bear baiting FTW!!!

DamoKen

HelterSkelter wrote:

Was really happy to see this, the bull managed to gore one of the cowardly bullfighters. My only regret is the bull didn't manage to do more damage to him.

are you for real?? don't necessarily go with the whole bullfighting thing myself, though cowardly is probably the last thing I'd call the bullfighter. I think the link you provided gives ample demonstration of why that would be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting

Wikipedia wrote:

Bullfighting is normally fatal for the bull, and it is very dangerous for the matador. (Picadors and banderilleros are sometimes gored, but this is not common.They are paid less and noticed less, because their job takes less skill and, in particular, less courage.) ...........

.......Some matadors, notably Juan Belmonte, have been gored many times: according to Hemingway, Belmonte's legs were marred by many ugly scars. A special type of surgeon has developed, in Spain and elsewhere, to treat cornadas, or horn-wounds: they are well paid and well respected and are invited to the best parties. The bullring normally has an infirmary with an operating room, reserved for the immediate treatment of matadors with cornadas.

So cruel to the bull it may be, disgusting from a non Spanish perspective (or even some sections of Spanish society), but just because you don't like it doesn't mean you need to resort to Sun style reporting, nor wish more pain on a human being. Now that I really don't get?

HelterSkelter

DamoKen wrote:

are you for real?? don't necessarily go with the whole bullfighting thing myself, though cowardly is probably the last thing I'd call the bullfighter. I think the link you provided gives ample demonstration of why that would be.

They are cowards because the stab the bull to injure and tire it out it before the bull fighter even enters the ring.

DamoKen wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullfighting

So cruel to the bull it may be, disgusting from a non Spanish perspective (or even some sections of Spanish society), but just because you don't like it doesn't mean you need to resort to Sun style reporting, nor wish more pain on a human being. Now that I really don't get?

If someone is prepared to torture and inflict a slow painful death on an animal for "entertainment" I don't see any reason why they should be spared the same treatment. I have no sympathy for the bull fighters.

DamoKen

HelterSkelter wrote:

They are cowards because the stab the bull to injure and tire it out it before the bull fighter even enters the ring.

don't know about that, still doesn't make the guy standing in front of an enraged 600kg animal with sharp horns it wants to stick in him a coward. You're allowing your outrage at the whole concept of bullfighting to prejudice your thinking.

Whether or not I agree with bullfighting, no way in hell would you get me in there, and I'm not the most timid of guys. Don't confuse that with admiration for a bullfighter, I in no way approve of bullfighting, I do however recognise it would take major cojones to have a bull charge you and not only not to flinch, but to be in enough control to "dance with the bull" in the ritualised manner.

HelterSkelter wrote:

If someone is prepared to torture and inflict a slow painful death on an animal for "entertainment" I don't see any reason why they should be spared the same treatment. I have no sympathy for the bull fighters.

Sympathy is a different thing, why would you need to sympathise? He knew what he was doing, more importantly the risks (which would sort of negate the whole cowardly thing). I simply find it hard to understand how you can wish pain on others, even more bizarre is your evident delight in the goring.

HelterSkelter wrote:

Was really happy to see this

anyway, this will just in circles and I'm off home so each to their own eh?

Canis Lupus

DamoKen wrote:

are you for real??

Are you?

NSFW or if you're squeamish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHR9FZrnQQ0

As for bullfighting in general this bull gets his own back on the sick b**tards that watch this stuff. Shame they seem to be killing it in the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ktkPfPhFA

junkyard

Bullfighting should be banned, no doubt about it, its barbaric.:mad:Its a pity the bull didn't get to spend a bit more time with the bullfighter. Any nutter who thinks its a bit of craic to torture an animal deserves what he gets as far as I'm concerned.

DamoKen

Canis Lupus wrote:

Are you?

NSFW or if you're squeamish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHR9FZrnQQ0

As for bullfighting in general this bull gets his own back on the sick b**tards that watch this stuff. Shame they seem to be killing it in the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ktkPfPhFA

what's your point, to prove it's not nice? well done. No idea why you're quoting me though, at no point did I dispute that. Why don't you reread my post and this time you may understand what I was talking about

HelterSkelter

Canis Lupus wrote:

Are you?

NSFW or if you're squeamish

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHR9FZrnQQ0

As for bullfighting in general this bull gets his own back on the sick b**tards that watch this stuff. Shame they seem to be killing it in the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4ktkPfPhFA

That's sick, how can they cut it's ears off while it's still alive. I hope these guys get payback sometime in their future "career".

Canis Lupus

DamoKen wrote:

what's your point, to prove it's not nice? well done. No idea why you're quoting me though, at no point did I dispute that. Why don't you reread my post and this time you may understand what I was talking about

I don't believe there is courage. Read your own link to discover how they systematically wound the bull into being less dangerous. There is very little risk to a matador trained to do what he does. They're fighting an animal that works on instinct. Have you ever seen a bull or been around a bull? Your profile says you're based in Dublin so I'm guessing you possibly haven't.

Helter there are worse on youtube. I have one link that shows how bulls go down once the sword is struck but it's not really a link to be put up in here. Run a search for stop bullfights and you'll see what I mean.

Rb

Pity it didn't kill him, wonder how "entertained" the sick f*cks who attend these things would have been then.

Tar.Aldarion

Enjoy your meat lads. :rolleyes:

Goldfinger

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Enjoy your meat lads. :rolleyes:

Are you saying that killing an animal for meat, and slowly torturing it to death for the entertainment of a bunch of howling savages, are the same thing?

Tar.Aldarion

Both are killing for pleasure since humans no longer need meat like they did, to survive.
Not much difference no, just a different pleasure that ends in a death.
I doubt it matters to the animal which way is 'wronger' when it is dying.
This is not a discussion for 'Cool Vids & Pics & Links'.
Bye.

rediguana

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Both are killing for pleasure since humans no longer need meat like they did, to survive.
Not much difference no, just a different pleasure that ends in a death.
I doubt it matters to the animal which way is 'wronger' when it is dying.
This is not a discussion for 'Cool Vids & Pics & Links'.
Bye.

Good point! Novel.

There was an abbotoir (slaughter house) in the estate where I grew up. Don't delude yourself that the fellas that prod and direct these animals to their deaths are covering the animals eyes and telling them it's going to be alright. From what I saw, the animals knew what was coming, rebelled frequently, thus inspiring rage in the guys working their, who used to just beat them viciously then in the direction they wanted them to go. I guess they thought the animal was going to be dead pretty soon anyway. I don't think you can do jury duty if you work in a slaughter houes (or if you're a psychiatric nurse, for that matter).

At least those Spanish bulls go out fighting. Don't allow the spectacle of it make you think it's much different from lots of other animals' deaths.

I eat meat, in case anyone's wondering, though it's usually organic. I heard that they don't actually kill the animal when it's organic.

HelterSkelter

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

Both are killing for pleasure since humans no longer need meat like they did, to survive.

How is killing an animal for meat classed as killing for pleasure?

Tar.Aldarion

A)Do you like the food you meat you eat*?
B)Do you need it to survive, at all*?
C) You eat it for pleasures sake, you like it.



*If you do eat any.
*No.

DamoKen

Canis Lupus wrote:

I don't believe there is courage. Read your own link to discover how they systematically wound the bull into being less dangerous. There is very little risk to a matador trained to do what he does. They're fighting an animal that works on instinct. Have you ever seen a bull or been around a bull? Your profile says you're based in Dublin so I'm guessing you possibly haven't.

been away the last week so didn't respond earlier. didn't intend replying anymore either as had said what I wanted and left it at that. However you seem to have some peculiar notion about where I'm from. Believe it or not Dublin isn't just a city, it's a county too. And yes there are farms there, and believe or not I grew up beside one.
If you have a point fine, you don't believe it's courage fine, that's your opinion, but less of the generalisations based on where someones from please.
As to your point about being around bulls..., what is your point?

HelterSkelter

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

A)Do you like the food you meat you eat*?
B)Do you need it to survive, at all*?
C) You eat it for pleasures sake, you like it.



*If you do eat any.
*No.

That's bullsh1t. Meat is an essential part of a healthy balanced diet. Ask any dietitian.

Tar.Aldarion

No, it's not.
Ask any nutritionist. Ask any doctor. Ask any dietitian(Like my mother for example.). Ask any health board in the world.
Ask anybody that knows anything about nutrition, or what they are talking about, like me.

Know what you are talking about before you claim to know what you are talking about,
Thanks.

HelterSkelter

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

No, it's not.
Ask any nutritionist. Ask any doctor. Ask any dietitian(Like my mother for example.). Ask any health board in the world.
Ask anybody that knows anything about nutrition, or what they are talking about, like me.

Know what you are talking about before you claim to know what you are talking about,
Thanks.

Not according to my GP.

In any case this is a red herring. Comparing killing an animal for it's meat, even if for the sake of this argument I agree with you that it is for pleasure purposes, is not even in the same league as people coming to watch a bull slowly tortured to death and cheering on. Do you agree?

Tar.Aldarion

HelterSkelter wrote:

Not according to my GP.

Maybe I should say any competent doctor?
It is even taught to doctors why some people have to become vegetarian/ give up meat for their health.

There is not even an argument for your view, it's wrong, as espoused by every health organisation in the world.
If you are interested in health questions etc, feel free to ask.
Here is a basic health post I wrote ages ago.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290778

In any case this is a red herring. Comparing killing an animal for it's meat, even if for the sake of this argument I agree with you that it is for pleasure purposes, is not even in the same league as people coming to watch a bull slowly tortured to death and cheering on. Do you agree?

This is all perspective.
It seems, as you say, much more barbaric an act to watch an animal experience the torment, but might I note; is it not more barbaric to let an animal suffer, be tormented, killed and served to you, with you feeling perfectly innocent as you did not have to kill it yourself, watch it be beaten yourself? I was just pointing out that it is a tad hypocritical for people to come on here, saw that these people are disgusting and then go home, eat some KFC and think they are not doing the same wrong, even though those chickens were tortured. They did not leer at the chicken so it is better?
http://www.kfccruelty.com/why.asp
Now I hate PETA, but at least they shed light on things that go on in these places. Look at what they do to the animals. People do much worse
In Ireland* we are a lot better off than in America, the animals are better off but still, it is no less despicable than what happens to that bull.
Meat is definitely my favourite food, but some things are more important than pleasure for me.
So no, I think they are both horrible acts and which is worse is just perspective.


*

There was an abbotoir (slaughter house) in the estate where I grew up. Don't delude yourself that the fellas that prod and direct these animals to their deaths are covering the animals eyes and telling them it's going to be alright. From what I saw, the animals knew what was coming, rebelled frequently, thus inspiring rage in the guys working their, who used to just beat them viciously then in the direction they wanted them to go. I guess they thought the animal was going to be dead pretty soon anyway. I don't think you can do jury duty if you work in a slaughter houes (or if you're a psychiatric nurse, for that matter).

At least those Spanish bulls go out fighting. Don't allow the spectacle of it make you think it's much different from lots of other animals' deaths.

HelterSkelter

Tar.Aldarion wrote:

This is all perspective.
It seems, as you say, much more barbaric an act to watch an animal experience the torment, but might I note; is it not more barbaric to let an animal suffer, be tormented, killed and served to you, with you feeling perfectly innocent as you did not have to kill it yourself, watch it be beaten yourself? I was just pointing out that it is a tad hypocritical for people to come on here, saw that these people are disgusting and then go home, eat some KFC and think they are not doing the same wrong, even though those chickens were tortured. They did not leer at the chicken so it is better?
http://www.kfccruelty.com/why.asp
Now I hate PETA, but at least they shed light on things that go on in these places. Look at what they do to the animals. People do much worse
In Ireland* we are a lot better off than in America, the animals are better off but still, it is no less despicable than what happens to that bull.
Meat is definitely my favourite food, but some things are more important than pleasure for me.
So no, I think they are both horrible acts and which is worse is just perspective.


*

Let me tell you that a slaughter house is a much more "humane" way of killing an animal than a bull fight. One of our ex-customers here was a slaughter house and one of the lads I work with was brought on a tour and saw the whole process. There is no beating of the animals. There is even very little human interaction, it is an automated process and the animals are killed very quickly.

Sure I read about the KFC chicken farm before and I agree it is disguisting but you can get bástards like in all walks of life. There are people who own pets and treat them the same way, that does not mean we should assume all dog owners beat their dogs.

Tar.Aldarion

No, no, I do not presume to make such a statement as that all slaughterhouses are the same. I said myself that Ireland has much better laws than in America(Some people don't eat meat on principal until conditions improve, and they will not unless such people object), where the Welfare people are not even allowed in a slaughterhouse unless they are permitted by the slaughterhouse and where there are no laws against cruelty to chickens etc. Even the laws there are not enforced well.
Even in Ireland...
http://www.ciwf.ie/farminfo/farmfacts_broiler.html
Aside from the fact that some are cruel and some are not, such as your customer, the killing itself is the worst part.
You think an animal killed quicker is that much better than one in a bullfight?
Is a quick death in a slaughter house so much morally better than a different death? Why is it that we aways find 'humane' and 'death' in the same sentence?
As for the dogs, no, it means laws should be put in place and enforced to stop them.

A few of my thoughts on the matter.

"To a man whose mind is free there is something even more intolerable in the sufferings of animals than in the sufferings of man. For with the latter it is at least admitted that suffering is evil and that the man who causes it is a criminal. But thousands of animals are uselessly butchered every day without a shadow of remorse. If any man were to refer to it, he would be thought ridiculous. And that is the unpardonable crime."
-Romain Rolland, author, Nobel Prize 1915

"In their behavior toward creatures, all men are Nazis. Human beings see oppression vividly when they're the victims. Otherwise they victimize blindly and without a thought."
-Isaac Bashevis Singer, author, Nobel Prize 1978

HelterSkelter

Thanks for that link. I do buy organic and free-range chicken when I do the shopping but I will pass this link on to the others in the house to convince them to do the same. :-)

Tar.Aldarion