Balbriggan, should i move there?

Moonbeam

100gSoma - I think you summed it up well there.

I am living up in one of the new estates near Dunnes,where I live the hse/county council is renting out a good proportion of the houses to both foreigners and Irish people.
Their behaviour is not always acceptable and noise levels on week nights reach unacceptable levels.
We don't have an issue with crime in the estate itself but it can be quite indimitading to walk home from the village or train past the teenagers and kids hanging around with nothing better to do and in some cases Adults too.
I don't blame these kids and most are harmless and not smashing the windows and breaking in to the cars as is a regular occurance around the village,they just have nothing else to do and no where else to go.
I don't really know my neighbours and I find a lack of sense of community around the new housing estates (lego land)
The trains are completely packed,traffic is terrible and amenities are improving.
People don't seem to want to help make it a better place by getting involved in community problems eg a youth club but are happy to complain about the issues anyway.
With house prices the way they are and comparing it to other areas with similar priced houses,Balbriggan really isn't a bad place to live though,your near the motorway,there is a train line,there are shops and it is generally safe to walk around the town on your own.
The issue with schools is one that is being seen in many places,the populations are growing too fast and the catholic church running the majority of our state schools.

100gSoma

Cheers for the support Moonbeam. I don't want to sound like Im slating the town. It's just I grew up there and its been going downhill when I compare it to years gone past. They could have done more in the way of planning and infrastructure. It's frustrating when people work very VERY hard to get a mortgage and a house only to be surrounded by HSE rented housing where alot of times (NOT all the times) the occupants don't care about the house or the garden or the area or anything really. It drops the value of houses in the area. Thats not anybodies fault except Fingal CC and the planners for allowing it to happen that way. I have heard there have been plenty of car break ins alright, but its risky leaving your car over night on any town street in fairness, not just balbriggan. Recently a group of 4 foreign students were set upon by a gang of 8 youths who got on the 8pm train at balbriggan. they stole ipod and money etc and intimidated the 4 foreigner travellers. I guess thats typical of any town like balbriggan with a huge youth population and nowhere to go, and nothing to do. We have always had that problem in balbriggan and I remember initiatives like the Cryptic youth centre which opened to help tackle the problem. It was a HUGE success and had evening gigs on for 14 - 18 year olds to go and hang out in a safe warm drug free place. I think its still opened but its no doubt 10 times too small to deal with the number of youths in the town now.
has anyone noticed the 'salesman' selling cars from the train station everyday? he parks up 3 or 4 cars with signs in the windows every morning. I can bet that Irish rail will introduce paid parking in the train station car park and cite this as an abuse of the free parking. Why doesn;t anyone complain? For fear of being called the R word. The town could be great again. It really could. I'm encouraged by the amount of really decent nice folk who I see on here who have moved into balbriggan recently. Im sorry there is not more of a sense of community like there was in the old days. I hope we can get that back. We needs someone to step up and take a more serious line with whoever is planning the town. There are bigger problems brewing though in the town town though. We hear the word 'integration' bandied around all the time. Integration is not the host community changing to accommodate new people and cultures. Ironically, this in itself breeds problems. The idea is that everyone has the same set of rules and joins the community. By opening culture specific schools and areas and signs and phone lines and grants etc, the council are actually shooting themselves in the foot as this does not encourage or promote integration. I'm sure they mean well, but they need someone on board who has an understanding of social science.
I think everyone in the the town should have the same opportunities.
It's not a bad old town though, but it was 10 times better, and I hope we can get back to that atsome stage in the future. I'm not sure what it takes? lots more funding and facilities to match the population growth as a starter. better access, and planning around the town, more attention to "quality of life" aspects of the town. There has been no attention ot that in the past 5 years, it was the great "gold rush" of house building. yee haa.. get on board the builders were making 100s million of euro, and the banks were throwing mortgages at anyone with a minimum wage job.... everyone is winning!!! HOORAY... BOOM. ooops... damn....

lyda

I also live up near Dunnes. I don't find it all that noisy and it's nice having the shopping centre nearby. It would be nice to get the access road issue solved, but trucks will always need to go through residential areas when you locate shops close to folks.

The commuting issue needs to be fixed. The new schedule is the same as this year's which is unacceptable. The trains have been packed for years and CIE has had loads of time to address the issue. All I can think to do is to write Irish Rail, our TDs and the Minister (Green TD Eamon Ryan?) in charge of transport.

Trevor Seargent was elected on the last count and the Greens need every seat they have. If enough people in Balbriggan speak up, our politicians will respond. It doesn't take all that many people to speak up to motivate a politician to focus on a problem.

clg23

Instead of constantly slating balbriggan what do we suggest is done?

No (1) More schools

100gSoma

(1) More Schools
(2) Better planning. No requirement for high density housing. It's just greed.
(3) Better spread of HSE rented houses across the town not in certain areas.
(4) More facilities to engage the growing youth population. (more youth clubs)
(5) More thought about the traffic flow around the town to ease congestion
(6) More carriages on the trains, more services. Still not enough.
(7) Focus on the quality of life aspect of inhabitants, not just best way to make money for builders and council.

Fingleberries

100gSoma wrote:

(5) More thought about the traffic flow around the town to ease congestion

In fairness, I did see operation Freeflow in effect in the town this morning. (i.e. two Gardai standing at a set of traffic lights not quite sure what to do - they were at the Naul Road / Harry Reynolds road lights.)

100gSoma

Don't talk to me about that FB. My commute has got about 25% longer thanks to the gardai 'over-riding' the lights at the phoenix park. There actions actually SLOW the whole thing down and now there are routinely long Queues to exit the park into castleknock area. Seems the lights were better at moderating traffic flow... argh..

wow sierra

Theres a notice in the Fingal this week about a proposed youth club. It seems
Foroige are currently trying to establish a youth club in Balbriggan for people 12 years and over. They are looking for adult volunteers to help set up and run it - can give as little as an hour a week commitment.

Have a look at the Fingal or contact Bryan Gavin, Foroige Regional Youth Officer, at 086 851939 or bryan.gavin@foroige.ie


Dont know anything about it myself but it seems like a good idea and it would be a good way for new people to get to know people in Balbriggan and contribute to the Community.

Chinafoot

100gSoma wrote: »

We hear the word 'integration' bandied around all the time. Integration is not the host community changing to accommodate new people and cultures. Ironically, this in itself breeds problems. The idea is that everyone has the same set of rules and joins the community.

This part of your post really stood out for me. Integration requires compromise and changes on both sides. I've seen people openly disgusted at African and Indian people wearing traditional dress, I've had one person remark that all foreigners should speak English at all times since they're in "our" country now, afterall why should we have to listen to two African women speaking "jibberish", I even had a woman tell me about how she was told to "fúck off back to where you came from if you can't speak our language" because she was speaking in IRISH to her daughter. Attitudes like this are rife in Balbriggan, (and yes, other places around the country, and no, I'm not saying everyone is like this) and they need to change. It should never be simply a case of only the foreigners changing to fit in with us.

I agree that changes are needed in the town with regards to planning and facilities and I do think that there will be major, major problems down the line with regards school places, which is already an issue. However, I also think that it's very easy to look back with rose-tinted glasses on what the town used to be like.

100gSoma

Chinafoot wrote: »

This part of your post really stood out for me. Integration requires compromise and changes on both sides. I've seen people openly disgusted at African and Indian people wearing traditional dress, I've had one person remark that all foreigners should speak English at all times since they're in "our" country now, afterall why should we have to listen to two African women speaking "jibberish", I even had a woman tell me about how she was told to "fúck off back to where you came from if you can't speak our language" because she was speaking in IRISH to her daughter. Attitudes like this are rife in Balbriggan, (and yes, other places around the country, and no, I'm not saying everyone is like this) and they need to change. It should never be simply a case of only the foreigners changing to fit in with us.

I agree that changes are needed in the town with regards to planning and facilities and I do think that there will be major, major problems down the line with regards school places, which is already an issue. However, I also think that it's very easy to look back with rose-tinted glasses on what the town used to be like.

Chinafoot, just to be clear, I'm not a person who is offended or upset because people are different. The kind of people you refer to sicken me as much as the next person. People who have this 'your different, you don't belong' attitude are morons. My qualm is with the opposite attitude. The people who would have you put up your shop\road signs in polish and nigerian to cater for the new minority groups in the town. While I agree that its a balance I think it can be overdone too. We do plenty of great things in this town including phone lines and support channels aimed specifically at immigrants living in the town. I am not against this at all.
I have studied the subject in considerable detail, and my opinion is borne from education and research not bigotry. Multiculturalism is around since the 1970s and evolved as a way to reject racism and encourage people to embrace diversity. This is great right? Many cultures one community was the idea. By the 80s and 90s in the UK multiculturalism was established in schools, the law, and political institutions such as local government. Immigrants did not have to learn English: welfare interpreters would be supplied so that they could continue to speak only Urdu, Gujerati, Somali, or whatever other tongue. That's all good right? We have similar interpreters here now to aid with social welfare issues? Schools dropped such practices as the Christmas Nativity play ('too Anglocentric') in favour of - well, in favour of anything 'multi-culti'. We are doing that here too, in fact we cannot have the crib on show in alot of places now as it may offend non-Christians. I'm sure you remember that christ was removed from the crib of a well known hospital last year (and this year) due to offending a minority who were at the hospital. This is all good right? Or is it? Commissions were set up in the UK to ensure that state agencies, such as the police, had a 'multi-culti' dimension (we are implementing the same now within the gardai). Large mosques were built in the middle of British cities, mostly by the Saudi Arabians, who, funnily enough, prohibit all manifestations of Christian worship in Saudi Arabia. There are calls for a large mosque in swords right now and this is with the town council. Many immigrants in the multi-culti communities in the 90s UK felt resentment, and sometimes even a hatred against everything the host community stood for because they didn't integrate properly; they were encouraged to stay different instead of likewise embracing the host culture in all its facets. language lifestyle culture etc. Only now is it beginning to dawn on political leaders that multiculturalism, for all its well-meaning beginnings, is disastrous in its effects. It alienates the young and fills them full of grievances. That's why I was disappointed to hear of the all-black school near Dunnes. Not at all borne out of racism but rather it gives the kids less of a chance to integrate and thereby provide them with an equal footing within the local community. but of course, once you mention that you think the school is not a great idea, people will cut you off and brand you racist and not listen to your opinion regardless of the reasons behind it. Not much I can do about that. People have their opinions they cannot be open to change or look at the bigger picture.

clg23

The educate together school beside dunnes has irish and white children the "all black" school is located at the sunshine house.. There was a list of proposed new schools published recently in the indo and there is no new school planned for balbriggan this problem will get worse before it gets better.

100gSoma

clg23 wrote: »

The educate together school beside dunnes has irish and white children the "all black" school is located at the sunshine house.. There was a list of proposed new schools published recently in the indo and there is no new school planned for balbriggan this problem will get worse before it gets better.

Apologies for my mistake in that case. A few news reports in the Times and Indo said it was the educate together school that had 80 black pupils and no white Irish.
source http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article2522914.ece and http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/equal-education-for-all-children--as-long-as-theyre-catholic-1116922.html etc.
Yeah, the school shortfall in the area will be a problem definitely. The church hold on the primary schooling system exacerbates the issue also (IMO).

tbh

100gSoma wrote: »

We are doing that here too, in fact we cannot have the crib on show in alot of places now as it may offend non-Christians. I'm sure you remember that christ was removed from the crib of a well known hospital last year (and this year) due to offending a minority who were at the hospital.

you're confusing "religion" with "Culture" soma no-one is saying we can't celebrate whatever religion you want, but issues surrounding cribs and nativity plays merely reflect that you can't just assume that all Irish people are Christian/Catholic anymore. I suspect a lot of these issues would be coming up now whether we were all from this rock or not.

Fingleberries

tbh wrote: »

you're confusing "religion" with "Culture" soma no-one is saying we can't celebrate whatever religion you want, but issues surrounding cribs and nativity plays merely reflect that you can't just assume that all Irish people are Christian/Catholic anymore. I suspect a lot of these issues would be coming up now whether we were all from this rock or not.

While not wanting to side track this issue entirely (as it was originally about whether Balbriggan is somewhere nice to live - to which I would probably say yes).

However, the issue surrounding Christmas cribs and removing Christ from the celebration is a sign of the world gone mad. Christmas - it's not that we have the holiday just for Presents, Santa, Decorations and Trees. It's a celebration and reflection on the birth of Christ. It's not 'Chrimbo', it's not 'Xmas', it's not 'the Holiday Season'.

If the people of the state don't feel it's appropriate to have Christ in the celebrations of Christmas, then there's nothing to celebrate and they should just cancel the whole thing and not be hypocritical.

[Apologies for the rant, and hijacking the thread. And no, I'm not a grinch and don't want to steal Christmas ...]

clg23

Ha - It is all going a bit mad..

What will we do about St. Patricks Day?

Fingleberries

clg23 wrote:

What will we do about St. Patricks Day?

Bring back the 'A-T-A ... Security' Floats, along with Murphys trucks with a few baloons strapped to the side

tbh

Fingleberries wrote: »

Bring back the 'A-T-A ... Security' Floats,

lol! talk about a blast from the past!

100gSoma

I'm a veteren of the ATA floats. Wearing a dodgy jumper and throwing sweets into the crowd. Back then it was the greatest honour in the world to be chosen to ride the float. Ah... times were simpler then...

tbh TBH I agree. (hehe) you should celebrate anything you like, which is why they should leave the little baby J in his crib. Vegans will want you to remove the animals from the crib next and we'll all be going around saying "Happy Holidays" instead of Happy Christmas. World gone mad indeed.

Still thinking of them ATA floats. I suppose they no longer let 7 and 8 year old kids hang off the sides of them for health and safety reasons. :rolleyes:

Moonbeam

I have a thread here about it;)

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055190523

wow sierra wrote: »

Theres a notice in the Fingal this week about a proposed youth club. It seems
Foroige are currently trying to establish a youth club in Balbriggan for people 12 years and over. They are looking for adult volunteers to help set up and run it - can give as little as an hour a week commitment.

Have a look at the Fingal or contact Bryan Gavin, Foroige Regional Youth Officer, at 086 851939 or bryan.gavin@foroige.ie


Dont know anything about it myself but it seems like a good idea and it would be a good way for new people to get to know people in Balbriggan and contribute to the Community.

Chinafoot

100gSoma wrote: »

I have studied the subject in considerable detail, and my opinion is borne from education and research not bigotry.

Just so you're clear, I am not saying your opinion is borne of bigotry. I'm simply disagreeing with your statement of "Integration is not the host community changing to accommodate new people and cultures"

Immigrants did not have to learn English: welfare interpreters would be supplied so that they could continue to speak only Urdu, Gujerati, Somali, or whatever other tongue. That's all good right? We have similar interpreters here now to aid with social welfare issues?

I personally have absolutely no problem with having intrepreters to help new people arriving in the country. People who don't speak English will soon have to learn if they want to function in an English speaking society and thats what happens here. Do you believe that this is something that shouldn't be provided? Are we being too accommodating by providing a service that will help new people in this country who have not yet learned the language?

Schools dropped such practices as the Christmas Nativity play ('too Anglocentric') in favour of - well, in favour of anything 'multi-culti'. We are doing that here too, in fact we cannot have the crib on show in alot of places now as it may offend non-Christians. I'm sure you remember that christ was removed from the crib of a well known hospital last year (and this year) due to offending a minority who were at the hospital. This is all good right? Or is it?

tbh's reply sums up my response to that one.

Commissions were set up in the UK to ensure that state agencies, such as the police, had a 'multi-culti' dimension (we are implementing the same now within the gardai).

Again I don't see the problem.

That's why I was disappointed to hear of the all-black school near Dunnes. Not at all borne out of racism but rather it gives the kids less of a chance to integrate and thereby provide them with an equal footing within the local community.

That's a planning issue for the council and it's an problem that has been there for years. There aren't enough school places for the amount of children in the area, regardless of the colour of the children. I agree that its unfortunate that it happened the way it did and it needs to be sorted.

but of course, once you mention that you think the school is not a great idea, people will cut you off and brand you racist and not listen to your opinion regardless of the reasons behind it. Not much I can do about that. People have their opinions they cannot be open to change or look at the bigger picture.

Again, just to be clear in case that was directed at me, I was not branding you a rascist at all. I simply disagree that it's just the new people to the country who need to change in order for integration to work.

Also, just as an aside, paraghraphs would make your posts a lot easier to read.

Anyway, this is all off-topic and probably better suited to humanities or politics so I'll leave it there and we can agree to disagree.

To the original question, there are a lot of issues in Balbriggan in terms of planning and facilities but these problems seem to be rife in most areas of ever-expanding Dublin.

There are some lovely estates in Balbriggan and if you are planning to buy I would suggest the older estates like Fancourt Heights/Hampton Cove or Tara Court/Tara Cove. The houses are quite simply better quality.

meditraitor

Fingleberries wrote: »

Bring back the 'A-T-A ... Security' Floats, along with Murphys trucks with a few baloons strapped to the side

Now that brings back memories, all good

Moonbeam

The all black school as it is no being referred to as is not in fact the one beside Dunnes.
It is the additional one that was set up due to not enough school places in Sept ,not quite sure where it is being run from atm.

Both are educate together schools.

Chinafoot

Moonbeam wrote: »

The all black school as it is no being referred to as is not in fact the one beside Dunnes.
It is the additional one that was set up due to not enough school places in Sept ,not quite sure where it is being run from atm.

Both are educate together schools.

See clg23's post above.

Moonbeam