Road signs & Gaelic - time for a change?

JaysusMacfeck

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Ni thuigeann tú do theanga fhéin, tabhair dom an t-am i ngaelic nxt time. :rolleyes:

Jesus christ lads, I HATED IRISH GAELIC in school and YET i'm the only person using what I remember. This was well over 10 years ago.

That's pretty fcking bad. :eek:

Why do you persist in calling it Gaelic? Are you American or something?
It's Irish or Gaeilge...

Gurgle

Slow coach wrote:

Put another option in your poll:

Phase English out of all road signs

I don't recall France having bilingual signs.

I agree, (despite the intended facetiousness).

The places were named in Irish, what we use are anglisised spellings of Irish words.

You don't need to be able to speak a language to read place names, I got around Greece just fine, even with road signs using a different alphabet. I sure as hell can't speak or read Greek.

Whats more confusing is when maps and signs don't match. This double-name thing is counter-productive.

If we really wanted to spend a few million promoting the Irish language, this seems like an excellent place to start. It could bring back an ability to pronounce Irish words, without causing undue hassle for people with no knowledge or interest in the language.

connundrum

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Please DO NOT ban "Coileach dearg", I did not take his post as a personal attack.

and

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Please unban this user. I did not take any offense to his post.

LOL. Bring back Bubbles too while you're at it!

For what its worth, I never learned to speak Irish in school and always felt that it was a bit of a shame. Even though I can't understand the Irish writing on signs (obviously it translates directly into what is written below it ) I think it should be kept.

1. If removed, Ireland would take a further step towards becoming a European State, and not an independant republic as it is now.

2. Is it actually hurting anyone by being there?

WhiteWashMan

Unpossible wrote:

Well I can't reffer to it as Irish when Im abroad, everytime I say "we also have a language called Irish" the person always pipes up and says something along the lines of;
"Oh right, like a dialect of English!"
or (the classic)
"Oh yeah, I can understand it. It sounds a lot like english"
(where I have to point out that I'm speaking english to them and not Irish)

is like when i say to an irish person that im australian, and they ask me to speak some australian to them.

becuase the world knows australian is a language, right?



right?

personally i dont give a monkeys what language the roadsigns are in, as long as i can read them, and the name on the signs are the same as the names of where i am going.

as for people complaining about how they should be in irish only, plase, try and move up to the 21st centuty. sure you wish ireland was one nation and the ira are great yadda yadda yadda, but try and accept the world as it is today and not the ideology of youre great granddaddy.yeah?

Dutchology

I was born in Holland and came over here when I was five and a half years old. I went to Senior Infants, and took on Gaeilge. I kept it on throughout secondary school, despite having been given the option to give up on it considering my nationality. Even as a "foreigner" I opted to learn the language of the country in which I was living, out of respect.

Despite not remembering a whole lot of it even though I only left school four years ago, I still understand enough written and aural to get by in Gaeltacht areas. Road signs should certainly have the placenames in Gaeilge as they are Irish towns and cities. I can't understand how anyone would consider changing them. If there is a city called Baile Atha Cliath, that's what it should be, not Dublin. I don't call Den Haag - The Hague; no matter what language I'm speaking, a place should be called it's own name.

And now... An bfhuil cead agam dul go dti an leithreas le do thoil?

cornbb

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Goverment services in GAELIC are RARE. Let's face it, it's in our constitution but the fekin lingo is dead.

Sorry guys.

You are entitled to get any government services you like in Irish. If you can't, you can complain to this guy: http://www.coimisineir.ie/index.php?page=baile&tid=1&lang=english

I used to think the language is dead but since moving to Galway and working in Connemara I realise its far from dead. Far from vibrant too I suppose but definitely very far from dead. Its just a pity so few people give a toss.

Sierra Oscar

It does not really bother me...

Gurgle

WhiteWashMan wrote:

is like when i say to an irish person that im australian, and they ask me to speak some australian to them.

Yeah, because us Irish are so totally ignorant of the rest of the world. Australia, thats some island off New Zealand, right?

WhiteWashMan wrote:

as for people complaining about how they should be in irish only, plase, try and move up to the 21st centuty. sure you wish ireland was one nation and the ira are great yadda yadda yadda, but try and accept the world as it is today and not the ideology of youre great granddaddy.yeah?

The places were named in Irish, long before anyone white even found your pointless little desert island off the coast of New Zealand and slaughtered all the natives. The English names were mostly contrived by spelling the place name in English as it was pronounced in Irish.

tbh, dragging the IRA etc. into a discussion about the Irish language shows exactly the ignorance you accuse us of with your bullsh1t about the australian language.

Dutchology wrote:

I can't understand how anyone would consider changing them. If there is a city called Baile Atha Cliath, that's what it should be, not Dublin. I don't call Den Haag - The Hague; no matter what language I'm speaking, a place should be called it's own name.

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

gucci

no point in gettin excited or worked up about it. they should be dual language with the irish perhaps in a more olde style font, not to show that irish is old fashioned but to show which language is more instilled in our heritage and used on this patch of earth for longest.

i hope the language never dies out.

diarmuidh

80% of Ireland's placenames are anglicisations of Irish words..they should be gaelicised if anything should be done!!! Why not Baile Amhlaoibh instead of Ballally etc...bililingual signs only for places like Arklow/Inbhéar Mór??

_blank_

Get the LUAS much then?

kevmy

First off the language is offically Gaeilge or Irish in the English language according to the constitution. Gaelic languages refers to Irish, Scottish and Breton Gaelic as a whole.
Secondly the original post refers to us moving further away from independence. I reckon we moving further into independence. So we can do what we like with our road signs. And judging by this poll and the general mood in the country we want our road signs bilingual. Keeps our culture yet doesn't alienate anybody.
Thirdly as for the majority of people disliking Irish, I don't think this is true. Perhaps the majority of people didn't like it in school but then the majority didn't like maths either but I don't see a clamour to get rid of that 'dead language'.
Fourtly the language isn't dead. There are a good number of people living in the Gaeltacht areas maybe a small percentage of the population but still thousands of people. We have a TV station and a Radio station transmitted in Irish. Some people became fluent through the school system (in regular schols and Gaelscoils) eg. Sharon Ni Bheolain. And lots of people have other varying degrees of fluency usually not that good but still some.
Lastly looking at the program No Bearla on TG4 it seems the Dubs are much more obnoxious to people trying to speak Gaelige than the cluchies. So maybe we just lop of the capital and it can float away to join up with Big Brother across the pond;)

humanji

In fairness, I don't really care. The only Irish I know was the rubbish that I was taught in school which didn't really want to teach anything other than the phrases that'll get you through the leaving cert.

I don't think the signs should be changed, not because of heritage or anything like that, but simply because it'll cost too much and the government are run ragged trying to bleed us dry as it is, so we should give them a break!

But, although I don't know much Irish, and have absolutely no interest in learning any more, there should be more options for people to learn it and more effort put in by the government to try and boost the language. Things like TG4 are a start, (and I was quite impressed when they started showing more modern films dubbed in Irish), but as it stands, it's like it's just on the periphery and they did it because they had to, rather than because they should.

Dutchology

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

Well there you go, you learn something new every day. I stand corrected. If that is the original name, then that is what it should be.

layke

I am an English speaker, born and bred in Ireland and I don't speak one word of Irish. I personally hate Academic nationalism the big lanaguage in the world is English, i'd rather speak that then some useless language that eats up your valuable leaving cert study time so I can go to the wesht every 6 years and have a 5 min banter with other enthusiasts. The Irish share more in common with the British culture then they will ever admit.

cornbb

You're entitled to your opinon layke, but don't you think its a good thing to have little things like the Irish language to differentiate our culture from that of Britain and the rest of the western world? I mean I'm all for the EU and everything but if small cultural things like the Irish language are lost then we risk becoming homogenised and losing any sort of identity.

biko

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam

Siogfinsceal

good god have you an pride in your country at all?? former british colony me arse

oRlyYaRly

This is from Wikipedia, so you know... but still, I don't see any reason to doubt it:

As a noun, it [Gaelic] may refer to the group of languages spoken by the Gaels, or to any one of the individual languages.

So there.

kevmy

layke wrote:

I am an English speaker, born and bred in Ireland and I don't speak one word of Irish. I personally hate Academic nationalism the big lanaguage in the world is English, i'd rather speak that then some useless language that eats up your valuable leaving cert study time so I can go to the wesht every 6 years and have a 5 min banter with other enthusiasts. The Irish share more in common with the British culture then they will ever admit.

I think it's great we speak English it gives us an advantage over people who don't because it is the global language. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to speak Irish as well. The Swiss speak at least 2 and often 3 languages, a lot of Belgians speak Flemish as well as French. And in my eyes it's not nationalism. I hate Sinn Fein and the IRA, don't want a united Ireland, don't hate the English. I view it as part of something we are. Like GAA or Irish music or dancing. A lot of countries have their own music and dance and games we also happen to have an alive language as well.
As for sharing British culture well of course we do the ruled us for 800 years, their our next door neighbour, we have loads of dealing with them. But we'vw also got stuff of our own. And if you say we are the same I have one word for you. Cricket

The Gnome

kevmy wrote:

I think it's great we speak English it gives us an advantage over people who don't because it is the global language. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to speak Irish as well. The Swiss speak at least 2 and often 3 languages, a lot of Belgians speak Flemish as well as French. And in my eyes it's not nationalism. I hate Sinn Fein and the IRA, don't want a united Ireland, don't hate the English. I view it as part of something we are. Like GAA or Irish music or dancing. A lot of countries have their own music and dance and games we also happen to have an alive language as well.
As for sharing British culture well of course we do the ruled us for 800 years, their our next door neighbour, we have loads of dealing with them. But we'vw also got stuff of our own. And if you say we are the same I have one word for you. Cricket

QFT.

User45701

i dont relay get the whole thing people having all this patrotasim stuff is 1/2 the problem in the world me and my country instead of me and my race.

robinph

kevmy wrote:

And if you say we are the same I have one word for you. Cricket

Ireland did manage to qualify for that World Cup.

robinph

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

I thought that Baile Atha Cliath and Dubh Linn were actually the names of two different ancient settlements. One somewhere near where the Pheonix Park is and the other being around a bridge over the Liffey nearer town.

Marksie

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

Well, i was reading a history of dublin's foundation, so it goes something like this as far as place names go:
The original small settlement was atha cliath, meaning ford of hurdles and was located near the mouth of the poddle on piles of stones. At the point where the Poddle met the Liffey a "black pool".. dubh Linn emerged. Which later gave us the name Dublin.

But what do I know i am one of those english, some of you love to hate so much.

Correct me if i am wrong, but isn't Irish being recognised as an official EU language and isn't it being taught on the curriculum of some uk schools?
So it should be preserved. But of course I would like signs being bilingual.

What really makes me wonder, is that there have already been two bannings over this, and it does seem that some Pro Irish language don't use reasoned argument at all but insults, judging by some of the posts.How would they "persuade" people to their viewpoint if they were in a pub for example?.

But to be honest I am getting less and less understanding about such attitudes. My very much quiet approach to this is being rapidly replaced by contempt.

I think that is the first time i have ever posted critiscing this attitude, but i am getting heartily sick of it all.
Oh and if you want to attack, attck my post, and attack it ion a reasoned fashion, otherwise it is just more ranting.

Hagar

Nice post Mark. I was waiting for someone to correct the mistaken translation. It took a while.

Although I agree with it one thing always puzzled me, why "dubh linn" and not "linn dubh" as would be the correct syntax. I have always wondered was dubh linn a true explanation of Dublin. Any takers on that one?

spurious

Baile Átha Cliath (town of the ford of the hurdles) and Dubh Linn/Dyfflin (black pool) were two different places - not far apart but two seperate settlements. It's not like one is a different version of the other.

Whatever they do with road signs, I wish they would hang whoever came up with Dola Dhroichead (Lord God.....shakes head...).

Better still is Dublin Bus' version of Plás Dúinsméara - Beresford Place - nothing like doing unto them as they did to us.

spurious

Hagar wrote:

Nice post Mark. I was waiting for someone to correct the mistaken translation. It took a while.

Although I agree with it one thing always puzzled me, why "dubh linn" and not "linn dubh" as would be the correct syntax. I have always wondered was dubh linn a true explanation of Dublin. Any takers on that one?

In old Irish they sometimes put the adjective before the noun.
Fionn ghall.
Fionn uisce.

aidan_walsh

User45701 wrote:

i dont relay get the whole thing people having all this patrotasim stuff is 1/2 the problem in the world me and my country instead of me and my race.

Racism over Nationalism, eh?

ScumLord

Keep the signs Irish.

Being patriotic is not a bad thing we should be proud of of culture not ashamed of it I don't want us to become a watered down version of American globalisim.

When I go to France I want to see French people doing French things in a French way and most other people around the world feel the same about Ireland.

But what do I know i am one of those english, some of you love to hate so much.

Don't mention it. You've got the wrong end of the stick though we don't hate the tans anymore we're just taking the piss in a freindly way, ye're never going to live the occupation down.

Hagar

Thanks for the Spurious answer;) .
I never noticed it before but it is common in the older place names.

Marksie

ScumLord wrote:

Don't mention it. You've got the wrong end of the stick though we don't hate the tans anymore we're just taking the piss in a freindly way, ye're never going to live the occupation down.

Some is I know that lol, that really doesn't phase me when it is actually in jest if i swung back and said yeah repressing for 800 years and counting then you would take it in same vein... Some of it isn't though.

Marksie

Hagar wrote:

Nice post Mark. I was waiting for someone to correct the mistaken translation. It took a while.

Although I agree with it one thing always puzzled me, why "dubh linn" and not "linn dubh" as would be the correct syntax. I have always wondered was dubh linn a true explanation of Dublin. Any takers on that one?

Thanks Hagar... i couldn't quite remember something else so i didn't put it in.. but will mention it now, perhaps someone could confirm.

There were intiially two viking communities, slightly separated. One was a fishing community... was the other one a religious community?

DonkeyStyle \o/

I like the fonts used in the older sign... reminds me of the writing on our oul pre-euro punts. (anyone else miss the old money?)

seansouth wrote:

Get the LUAS much then?

No, never... what's it like?

Hagar

Google for "Clo Gaelach Twomey" the font is free to download for private use.

@Donkeystyle LUAS is Irish for Speed. We sneak it in everywhere

ScumLord

marksuttonie wrote:

Some is I know that lol, that really doesn't phase me when it is actually in jest if i swung back and said yeah repressing for 800 years and counting then you would take it in same vein... Some of it isn't though.

True, I work with a cockney that can give as good as he gets, it's hilarious. There usually the best slagging matches.

WhiteWashMan

Gurgle wrote:

Yeah, because us Irish are so totally ignorant of the rest of the world. Australia, thats some island off New Zealand, right?

interesting point there.

so i point out that its not just everyone else in teh world that doesnt always know something about a foreign country and you come back with some ignorant tosh.
bravo you.

Gurgle wrote:

The places were named in Irish, long before anyone white even found your pointless little desert island off the coast of New Zealand and slaughtered all the natives. The English names were mostly contrived by spelling the place name in English as it was pronounced in Irish..

whats youre point?

that we all live a couple of hundred years ago?
i dont get it. the official languages of ireland are irish and english.

Gurgle wrote:

tbh, dragging the IRA etc. into a discussion about the Irish language shows exactly the ignorance you accuse us of with your bullsh1t about the australian language.

ah, i must have hit a nerve then.
the discussion is not about the irish language, its about signposts on road. i think my point about people living in the past is fairly relevant, especially considering you brought up your history fact.

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

is this you clammering for dublin to be renamed as blackpool? i mean, that is the historical name for it after all.

wind your neck in before i snap it off.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

We have two offical languages, therefore we put both languages on the signs. ALL signs. Is it that difficult an issue? I don't care if they're in the heart of Dublin or the most isolated part of Connemara.

If the Irish-speaking areas wnat to go Gaelic only, then they should a) Campaingn to change the constitution and b) STOP whinging other parts of the country want to go monolingual as well.

And don't give me that culture ****e. "Culture" is the worst possible reason for doing anything.

aidan_walsh

"Culture" is the worst possible reason for doing anything.

Whats the best possible reason, out of curiosity?

InFront

Logic?

DonkeyStyle \o/

InFront wrote:

Logic?

Go back to Vulcan you pointy-eared freak, we don't like your type around here. :mad:

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

aidan_walsh wrote:

Whats the best possible reason, out of curiosity?

Logic would actually be a very good start in this country. What's it got to go with Vulcans?

With me it'd be personal interest. I certainly don't do something because a bunch of over-ethusiastic headbangers tell me I should. Gave that up when I turned 18, thank you very much.

InFront

What did Vulcan have to do with logic?

edit:
ohh Vulcans, i thought you were talking about this guy

crazy trekkies.

Corruptedmorals

I don't see a single reason to take Irish off the road signs. If anything, it helped me learn the difference between 'An t-Oirthear' and 'An t-Iarthar'. It refelects that we have our own language, what's wrong with that? Was useful during the second world war, when they took the english off the road signs as a precuation, so no-one else would know where the hell to go...

I like the Irish translation of Leixlip, Léim an Bhradáin. The Salmon Leap..random..

mike65

Whatever happened to Gheill Sli?

Mike.

Catari Jaguar

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

As Ireland moves further and further away from independence, and as the Gaelic language gradually becomes extinct, it is about time that the Gaelic clutter on our signage is phased out?

Here's a classic example. The old green sign with interesting Gaelic script, and the modern blue sign with the visually bland italics – italics which are gradually replacing all these old signs.



As a modern ex-British colony with very little Irish culture left, isn't it about time we reflect our current status as people?

It's "Gaeilge". :rolleyes:

And no.

DonkeyStyle \o/

InFront wrote:

What did Vulcan have to do with logic?

edit:
ohh Vulcans, i thought you were talking about this guy

What's that guy got to do with pointy ears?

Catari Jaguar

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Look, this is NOT the case. MY Gaelic is ****e, it's what I remember from school.

That's your problem. Npt mine.

AN POST CAN'T DELIVER MY MAIL IN GAELIC. TWICE

Strange how all Gaelscoils send out student/pupil letters with the addresses AS GAEILGE isn't it?

Wait, Gaeilge is dead, we have Gaelscoils???

And why is your post name with "Mac" in it? Sure, if you want place names out and the language out, why don't we all change the remaining Irish names to English too!?

So you can be Jaysus "Son of" Feck

InFront

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

What's that guy got to do with pointy ears?

His name is Vulcan. Roman Myth.

Corruptedmorals

Lil Kitten wrote:

Strange how all Gaelscoils send out student/pupil letters with the addresses AS GAEILGE isn't it?

Yep, was in the gaeltacht twice and both times had to have all of my letters addressed to me in Irish, my name and all. No problem.