Road signs & Gaelic - time for a change?

Catari Jaguar

For whoever wrote that about 0.0002% of the population speak Irish read this.

Also whoever wrote that Irish wasn't an official language of EU/Ireland.

And for those complaining about the price of translating things.

Not to get off topic, how much do you think is spent on hiring Language teachers for foreign children in schools and translating official documents into Polish etc.??

Irish

Although the Irish language has been one of the official languages of the European Union only since January 1, 2007, it is the Republic of Ireland's first official language, and has minority-language status in Northern Ireland. Since the Republic of Ireland's accession to the European Economic Community (now the European Union) in 1973, EU treaties have been published and authenticated in Irish - as an official treaty language - as well as the EU official languages, and one has been able to make written submissions to Union institutions in Irish. On 13 June 2005, following a unanimous decision by EU foreign ministers, it was announced that Irish would be made the 21st official language of the EU but a derogation stipulates that not all documents have to be translated into Irish as is the case with the other official languages. [7] [8]The decision means that legislation approved by both the European Parliament and the Council of Ministers will now be translated into Irish, and interpretation from Irish will be available at European Parliament plenary sessions and some Council meetings. The new arrangements came into effect on 1 January 2007. The cost of translation, interpretation, publication and legal services involved in making Irish an official EU language is estimated at just under €3.5 million a year.[9] The derogation will be reviewed in four years and every five years thereafter.

Irish is the only official language of the Union that is not the most widely spoken language in any member state - 2002 census figures show that in the Republic of Ireland there are 1,570,894 speakers of Irish out of a population of 4,351,292, though only 350,000 use Irish every day. It is also estimated that 165,000 people in Northern Ireland can speak Irish. There are small but slowly growing diaspora communities that speak Irish around the world, the largest being in the United States, with 25,000 Irish speakers. [10]

joebhoy1916

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

the majority of Irish people dislike Gaelic.

I wouldn't really agree with that. All classes when your growing up are In english besides Irish which I can remember doing feck all of so It's hard for alot of people to take to irish. Whereas If more of It was learned and spoke people would like It.

That census means sh!t to be honest. I doubt 1,570,894 speak Irish. Here Is your form tick this box If you can speak Irish the guy who cant speak a word of english sure what the hell ill tick It anyway's.

25,000 In America speak Irish you do you honestly think that would be right?

DonkeyStyle \o/

InFront wrote:

His name is Vulcan. Roman Myth.

Were his ears pointy?
You know what, let's just agree to disagree.
We could argue about Romulan myths till the cows come home, but frankly I don't see the logic.

InFront

No they weren't pointy, but there just happens to be a figure of Roman mythology called Vulcan. I'm not much of a Trekkie so when you said:

Go back to Vulcan you pointy-eared freak

I thought you meant
this guy
when of course you meant
that guy
Now that I get the joke... LOL.

What language do Vulcans speak? Maybe all signage could be translated into that.

hey what about translating signage into Polish?!
(ducks)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

How about we have trilingual road signs - English, Klingon and Irish?

InFront

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

How about we have trilingual road signs - English, Klingon and Irish?

I don't see the benefits in roadsigns at all. Surely half the fun is the mystery of not knowing.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Once you cross the Shannon that's usually the case anyway. You get used to it.

OfflerCrocGod

VinnyL wrote:

our native languae is irish, our spoken language is english

Our native language is the one we speak from birth - the one we are using right now. Our native language is English and one of our official languages is Irish. That's what Irish is in reality an official language, nothing more.

OfflerCrocGod

InFront wrote:

Logic?

No. Common sense.

InFront

Sounds good to me.

DonkeyStyle \o/

InFront wrote:

when of course you meant
that guy

Actually I meant the Vulcan home world of Vulcan.

What language do Vulcans speak?

Only being a lesser Trek nerd, I don't know... perhaps the language is also 'Vulcan'? ... it all sounds the same to me, what with universal translators and such.

nesf

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

English is still the prefereable language in Ireland, the majority of Irish people dislike Gaelic.

Please don't confuse your, or your friends', view with the rest of the country's and please don't phrase it as a sweeping generalistion purporting to be a fact, that's simply trolling mate.

Random

Leave it on the signs if it helps those who only know the Irish place names find their way around, but not because we're trying to keep the constitution happy.

I agree with that other poster who reckons every place should have only one name .. why confuse the issue? It's hard enough to get a GPS map of Ireland as it is!

JustCoz

JaysusMacFeck wrote:

As a modern ex-British colony with very little Irish culture left, isn't it about time we reflect our current status as people?

Very little culture? That remark is laughable. And it's Gaeilge or Irish, not Gaelic. Also when I voted the majority were voting for the signs to be restored with the two languages the same size.:p

dceire

Leave it as it is, Irish will always be part of our culture and heritage no matter how much or little of the language is spoken here. Even if you have no affection for the language its not a big deal to overlook the irish on the sign's it is in english too you know!

I speek very very little irish, i think the way its taught in schools is crippling the language i hated doing it in school but now plan on doing night classes in irish as soon as i leave college and actually have the time! All in all leave the irish on the sign's!

ScumLord

^^Same as^^ Hated Irish in school it was literally beatin into me and I wouldn't learn a word of it, now I wish I had.

Slutmonkey57b

Coileach dearg wrote:

I really wish I could have a face to face conversation with the likes of you to find out your morals.
Imagine, this is the kind of Country Ireland has become. I feel sorry for you to be honest.

What the fck does language have to do with morality? There are no shortage of immoral Irish-spouting child raping priests out there you know. Has it occurred to you that a lot of peoples' hostility towards Irish is a direct result of the kind of fascist reaction you've just had? The kind of country Ireland has "become" is one in which Child abuse isn't swept under the rug "for the good of the church", corruption is exposed (though obviously nothing is actually done about it, this still being Ireland), and people of different religions, sexualities and nationalities aren't burned at the village crossroads. (obviously that's not to say they're welcomed). If you think that's all the "fault" of the English speaking hoards, then you're welcome to your visions of united catholic gaelic speaking Ireland.

PS: Dev was a yank and Irish was invented by the Gaelic League in the 1800's.
PPS: The Gaelic League was led by anglo irish proddies. Have a nice day.

nesf

Slutmonkey57b wrote:

PS: Dev was a yank and Irish was invented by the Gaelic League in the 1800's.

Stanardised sure, but a) the language existed before and b) standardisation is not uncommon in many languages (happened to English, German, French etc) and doesn't invalidate the languages existence.

You could say that English was 'invented' for instance if you want to call standardised langauges fake or something.

wow sierra

Go raibh míle maith agat OP as ucht an spreagadh a thug tú do chuile dhuine cás ár dteanga dhúchais a phlé. An shuimiúil ar fad.

Tá na comharthaí ceart go leor mar atá siad. Níl an Ghaeilge marbh. Tá an chultúr an láidir agus tá sé an tabhachtach gach cultúr a choimead beo sa saol nua-aimsirtha. Bhéadh an saol an leadránach gan éagsúlacht.


Thanks a million OP for inspiring this discussion of the state of our language. Very interesting indeed.

The signs are fine as they are. Irish isnt dead. The culture is strong and it is very important to keep every culture alive in modern society. Life would be very boring without variety.

Bon nuit, beunos noches

Coileach dearg

Coileach dearg wrote:

You complete dickhead. Have you a shred of shame in that airhead of yours. Irish is my first language and I am proud to be able to speak it.
.

Way to start your argument.Seeming as you have a grasp of 2 languages.Maybe you should learn how to use them properly without resorting to petty stupid name calling.

Gurgle

WhiteWashMan wrote:

is this you clammering for dublin to be renamed as blackpool? i mean, that is the historical name for it after all.

They can rename Dublin to Baile Thoin, and O'Connell street to Cromwell-Strasse for all I care. My point was that the names we use for places are mostly Irish names, and no harm would come of going back to the Irish spelling.

And yes, you hit a nerve.

To clarify my comments about your beautiful homeland, where you still haven't discovered sarcasm; Inferring a connection between the Irish language and supporting the IRA is extremely insulting. You're saying that the only culture we as a nation have is blowing sh1t up.

humanji

Gurgle wrote:

To clarify my comments about your beautiful homeland, where you still haven't discovered sarcasm; Inferring a connection between the Irish language and supporting the IRA is extremely insulting. You're saying that the only culture we as a nation have is blowing sh1t up.

Well in fairness, most countries think of the IRA and alcohol when they think of Ireland. The point I think he was making is that there are a load of people who still see England as the enemy and go into Nationalist mode in these types of topics demading anything English be removed from Ireland, praising our "freedom fighters" and other rubbish like that, in an almost fanatical frenzy.

kevmy

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

How about we have trilingual road signs - English, Klingon and Irish?

Ah yes good old Kqu'targ haven't been there in a while.:D

Steyr

Coileach dearg wrote:

You complete dickhead. Have you a shred of shame in that airhead of yours. Irish is my first language and I am proud to be able to speak it.
I suppose you want the National Anthem changed as well.
I feel so angry when people spout sh!te like this. I really wish I could have a face to face conversation with the likes of you to find out your morals.
Imagine, this is the kind of Country Ireland has become. I feel sorry for you to be honest.

Well said Sir, well said. EX British Colony my arse, we were here first and always have and always will be.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Steyr wrote:

Well said Sir, well said. EX British Colony my arse, we were here first and always have and always will be.

What, we're not an ex-British colony any more? WHere the **** did the English come from?

Jimoslimos

Same size or leave as is.

One of my great regrets is that I can't speak it a little better (although a few weeks listening and speaking I'd have a reasonable grasp of it). Having road signs etc, bilingual might encourage some subliminal learning.

Terry

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

Look, this is NOT the case. MY Gaelic is ****e, it's what I remember from school.

Cuir mé glaoch ar An Post cúpla lá o shin, níl aon Gaeilge ar an cailín sin. Scíobh mé litír go mise mé fhéin twice, they never ever arrived. Chuaigh mé go dtí Oifig an Phiost Sheancill agus duirt sí "We don't know Irish addresses so that's why it don't go trew". Go híontacht, great.

Your English isn't much better.
looks like it's Klingon for the road signs.

Corruptedmorals wrote:

I like the Irish translation of Leixlip, Léim an Bhradáin. The Salmon Leap..random..

From the Danish "Lax HLaup", meaning leap of the salmon and anglicised from that. 'twas the Daneish vikings who built the first settlement here.
Shame on a Leixlip person for not knowing that.

As for the people who were banned, the reason behind that was personal abuse. read the charter, folks.

Corruptedmorals

julep wrote:

From the Danish "Lax HLaup", meaning leap of the salmon and anglicised from that. 'twas the Daneish vikings who built the first settlement here.
Shame on a Leixlip person for not knowing that.

Nah I do know that, I just wasn't clear at all...

Fighting Irish

Coileach dearg wrote:

You complete dickhead. Have you a shred of shame in that airhead of yours. Irish is my first language and I am proud to be able to speak it.
I suppose you want the National Anthem changed as well.
I feel so angry when people spout sh!te like this. I really wish I could have a face to face conversation with the likes of you to find out your morals.
Imagine, this is the kind of Country Ireland has become. I feel sorry for you to be honest.

The fu(k? :eek:


Chill mate

Terry

nice to see you read the whole thread.

WhiteWashMan

Gurgle wrote:

To clarify my comments about your beautiful homeland, where you still haven't discovered sarcasm; Inferring a connection between the Irish language and supporting the IRA is extremely insulting. You're saying that the only culture we as a nation have is blowing sh1t up.

no, i was actually using irony to point out the stupidity in the argument of the person i quoted.

but i guess you missed it. but try better with the insults next time.

and youre easily insulted. maybe you should turn of the interweb and go somewhere else? maybe you have a leprechaun to play with?

JC 2K3

JaysusMacfeck wrote:

as the Gaelic language gradually becomes extinct

Irish is flourishing more than it has in years, Gaelscoils are getting massively popular and TG4 is putting out more and more quality Irish programmes.

Where have you been living for the last decade?

Terry

WhiteWashMan wrote:

no, i was actually using irony to point out the stupidity in the argument of the person i quoted.

but i guess you missed it. but try better with the insults next time.

and youre easily insulted. maybe you should turn of the interweb and go somewhere else? maybe you have a leprechaun to play with?

Are there many black people in Australia, or are you part of a very small minority?
I've never been there, so I have no idea what the place is like.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JC 2K3 wrote:

Irish is flourishing more than it has in years, Gaelscoils are getting massively popular and TG4 is putting out more and more quality Irish programmes.

Where have you been living for the last decade?

They have? News to me. Any time I've swtiched in it's either cheile music or imported subtitled/dubbed crap.

The Gaelscoils are always popular, but they tend to be more popular amongst people who can already speak Irish.

WhiteWashMan

julep wrote:

Are there many black people in Australia, or are you part of a very small minority?
I've never been there, so I have no idea what the place is like.

indeed.
and ive been asked in australia if people in ireland wear flak jackets when going to the shops.

you know, just in case a gun battle goes off.

however, just to clarify, i fail to see why road signs in ireland should be irish only.
as mentioned, the national languages are english and irish.
and 90% of the population either cant, or doesnt want to speak irish it seems.

or, if we went by boards, it would be 99.99%

JC 2K3

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

They have? News to me. Any time I've swtiched in it's either cheile music or imported subtitled/dubbed crap.

It's great for kids, they have all the cartoons you'd see on Nickelodeon etc. translated into Irish and at least one kids show as Gaeilge filmed for TG4.
In recent times there's been Amú Amigos and numerous Irish documentaries. They also had the rights to Celtic League Rugby for a while, pity it's gone to Setanta, I loved the commentry as Gaeilge.

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

The Gaelscoils are always popular, but they tend to be more popular amongst people who can already speak Irish.

I go to a Gaelscoil in Dublin. Out of my year of about 70 people I'd guess about about 10 of their parents would be able to speak fluent Irish, and about half my year(including myself) came from English speaking primary schools. In the 5 and a bit years I've been here the waiting list has continued to grow. There's massive demand for Gaelscoileanna

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JC 2K3 wrote:

It's great for kids, they have all the cartoons you'd see on Nickelodeon etc. translated into Irish and at least one kids show as Gaeilge filmed for TG4.
In recent times there's been Amú Amigos and numerous Irish documentaries. They also had the rights to Celtic League Rugby for a while, pity it's gone to Setanta, I loved the commentry as Gaeilge.


I go to a Gaelscoil in Dublin. Out of my year of about 70 people I'd guess about about 10 of their parents would be able to speak fluent Irish, and about half my year(including myself) came from English speaking primary schools. In the 5 and a bit years I've been here the waiting list has continued to grow. There's massive demand for Gaelscoileanna

Stuff that appears on nickelodeon is neither Irish nor quality! I've only ever seen one hom produced kids programme on TG4 - can't comment on the quality. The documentaries I've seen ahve been, as I mentioned before, based on Irish music and culture in past decades. Which is ok if you're into it, but is going to be of more interest to people wh oalready speak Irish.

Interesting comment on the Gaelscoil. The only kids I know/knew that went there went there for Irish speakign famlies, or because they were forced to. Not under severe duress, I grant you, but not because they stood up at 12 and said hey Mum, Dad, can I go to a gaelscoil?

Gurgle

WhiteWashMan wrote:

and youre easily insulted. maybe you should turn of the interweb and go somewhere else? maybe you have a leprechaun to play with?

My leprechaun is busy playing WoW atm, grinding for gold to buy his epic mount. Why turn off the interweb anyway? Its the best place to find stuff to take offence to.

JC 2K3

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Stuff that appears on nickelodeon is neither Irish nor quality! I've only ever seen one hom produced kids programme on TG4 - can't comment on the quality.

Well English speaking children don't watch much other than the crap stuff anyway, to be fair.

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

The documentaries I've seen ahve been, as I mentioned before, based on Irish music and culture in past decades. Which is ok if you're into it, but is going to be of more interest to people wh oalready speak Irish.

They're not all on Irish culture and music at all. There are a few on this type of thing, but there are many more on other things....

Badly Drunk Boy

Giblet banned.

Badly Drunk Boy

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Stuff that appears on nickelodeon is neither Irish nor quality! I've only ever seen one hom produced kids programme on TG4 - can't comment on the quality. The documentaries I've seen ahve been, as I mentioned before, based on Irish music and culture in past decades. Which is ok if you're into it, but is going to be of more interest to people wh oalready speak Irish.

Interesting comment on the Gaelscoil. The only kids I know/knew that went there went there for Irish speakign famlies, or because they were forced to. Not under severe duress, I grant you, but not because they stood up at 12 and said hey Mum, Dad, can I go to a gaelscoil?

Gaeilscoileanna are extremely popular. The school in Newbridge in Kildare is as popular as ever, and a friend of mine from Offaly said that the school where daughter teaches is very full...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JC 2K3 wrote:

Well English speaking children don't watch much other than the crap stuff anyway, to be fair.

Kids TV has gone downhill recently, agreed, but going off topic. And we were already off topic to begin with!

Badly Drunk Boy wrote:

Giblet banned

Who? What for? Who by?

Badly drunk Boy wrote:

Gaeilscoileanna are extremely popular. The school in Newbridge in Kildare is as popular as ever, and a friend of mine from Offaly said that the school where daughter teaches is very full...

Again, not disaggreeing with you, just wondering if this is helping advance the level of profiencey and interest in the Irish language amonst non-Irish speakign people.

CuLT

I don't see a problem with Irish on road signs, I don't see a problem with investing more in the language either. I think the 140 mil spent translating EU documents could have been put to better use elsewhere ( Irish language porn anyone? ) but unfortunately it doesn't seem there's much fresh thought on the language in government.

My only problem with Irish (to divert the topic slightly) is that it is compulsory in school at both primary and secondary level. Forcing a language, that is generally unused on a daily basis by the vast majority of the populace ( let's be honest, tossing the odd "slán", "ceart" or "craic" doesn't count here ), is for the most part detrimental to it's propogation.

I disgree that most people dislike Irish (it's nice to be able to throw out a cúpla focal to enquiring foreigners); I certainly didn't like that it was compulsory in school, if the state were to make it-non-compulsory, and put a bit of effort into romanticising the language, I have no doubt there'd be greater update.

dvega

Most ppl tend to learn a different language so it can benifit them when they go abroad,hense why would you like to learn irish when you can already speak english!

Irish is worse than it was 10 years ago and it seems to be getting worse.Irish speaking ppl tend to learn it through family tradition rather than at schools,unless their made learn it.

CuLT

dvega wrote:

Most ppl tend to learn a different language so it can benifit them when they go abroad,hense why would you like to learn irish when you can already speak english!

Irish is worse than it was 10 years ago and it seems to be getting worse.Irish speaking ppl tend to learn it through family tradition rather than at schools,unless their made learn it.

why would you like to learn irish when you can already speak english!

Not to sound rude, but this is a poor attitude. Irish is certainly not widely used language, no matter how much of a nationalist you are this is not a point of debate

It is, however, our language. Academically, I believe learning Irish is a noble cause. There is no reason to try and heave the entire nation into using Irish as our primary language, it's counter-productive. If anything, there should be more emphasis on learning something like Cantonese. A footing in Cantonese will serve you much better on the world stage as a practical language.

The problem is that Irish should not be treated as a practical, modern language; leaving ardent nationalism aside, nobody worth hearing is foolish enough to believe that Irish should be the primary language of the country. It would destroy us economically. It should be given proper respect though.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

dvega wrote:

why would you like to learn irish when you can already speak english!

You mean, why would I want to learn Irish when I can already speak English. Which is my attitude as well: Why would I?

I don't say "why would YOU...?" because if someone learns the laguage and gets something from it, power to them.

Pherekydes

CuLT wrote:

If anything, there should be more emphasis on learning something like Cantonese. A footing in Cantonese will serve you much better on the world stage as a practical language.

You mean Mandarin, don't you?

InFront

CuLT wrote:

The problem is that Irish should not be treated as a practical, modern language; leaving ardent nationalism aside, nobody worth hearing is foolish enough to believe that Irish should be the primary language of the country. It would destroy us economically. It should be given proper respect though.

Exactumundo. I don't see bilingualism working here apart from just on a very artifical level. Irish is a great language for all of its historical and mythological wealth - so is latin, but nobody goes around pretending that that is "alive" or "widespread".

CuLT

Slow coach wrote:

You mean Mandarin, don't you?

Possibly, it's all ching chong bong to me. Which is a shame. I was going to just say "Chinese", but I figure I'd get a slating, so I picked one. Clearly I chose poorly

Dyr

I say we leave the road signs bilingual, however all the english signage should contain erroneous information ensuring that true Gaels have the run of the roads while everyone else is sent all over the place. Simple