More beggars than usual

stepbar

Degsy wrote:

Give me nothing,tell them to piss off and tell the gaurds they're hassling people,if everyone sticks up to them they'll soon head off somewher else.

The Guards? they do shag all, in fact they dont give a sh1te. Im afraid nothing will change as long as the beggers involved continue to carry on they way they are acting.

walrusgumble

too much paper work for them to do, the lazy so and so's

Boston

InFront wrote:

That's rubbish. You're the one trying to take the moral high ground by pretending that its better to refuse one of these mothers some money.
One of the ugliest and most disgusting features of Dublin society is how the people on the very bottom are treated, and the attitudes that abound about these kind of immigrant ladies who are sitting there out of desperation. I honestly think there are people out there who are so - unbelievably - stupid that they do not realise the extent of child poverty in Ireland.

On please cop yourself on. Giving money, not giving money is all the same. It's not going to help. Now if you actually did something to help these people it would be a different story, but all you're doing is making yourself feel good and hurting people while you're at it. Ego masturbation.

Thanks for the heads up, it sounds like you are the one who needs to learn about poverty. You seem to be suggesting that, far from being miserable and abjectly poor, these women are part of some wealthy corporate Romanian conspiracy to steal from the rich Irish. I suppose they are off to the Algarve on weekend laughing at you all as well? Grow up.

Irish begging rings worked/still work in the exact same way. The child / mother and child on the streat gets feic all, it's who ever has them on the street that gets the money. They are living in poverty, just that people like you are the exact reason they are kept on the streets. I don't see why on earth you think your helping. People enlighten us to what you think happens with your few quid.

Frequent

You do realise you're expressing yourselves in Nazi terms?

"scum" who are "infesting our cities"
"I slapped the bitch across the face" (!) (How could anyone have applauded this behaviour? It's disgusting.)
"they should all be shipped off and the boat set alight".

You are actually no better than these people. However, you just keep telling yourselves that you are. I am making no excuses for what exploitative beggars may do but as for your responses to them - you people are the reason that genocides happen in this world. You reduce people to nothing but pure sh|t in your sight. You are a disgrace.

Degsy

Frequent wrote:

nazis...genocide...nazis..racists...concentration camps...no right to opinion...blah blah blah

Change the record FFS

Heisenberg.

This post has been deleted.

Rb

Frequent wrote:

You do realise you're expressing yourselves in Nazi terms?

"scum" who are "infesting our cities"
"I slapped the bitch across the face" (!) (How could anyone have applauded this behaviour? It's disgusting.)
"they should all be shipped off and the boat set alight".

You are actually no better than these people. However, you just keep telling yourselves that you are. I am making no excuses for what exploitative beggars may do but as for your responses to them - you people are the reason that genocides happen in this world. You reduce people to nothing but pure sh|t in your sight. You are a disgrace.

LOL.

Rb

The Scientist wrote:

Correct me if i'm wrong but did'nt Rudolph Guilani give all vagrants in New York a one way plane ticket to California in the early 90's?
That worked.
I think we should send them all to Limerick or someplace....
Problem solved.

Nah, sure Limerick has enough problems as it is...

Leitrim, the place that noone cares about, that'd be ideal
Or perhaps an Island off the coast...or maybe even just throw them up North

InFront

Boston wrote:

Irish begging rings worked/still work in the exact same way. The child / mother and child on the streat gets feic all

Why don't you ever link to some evidence, or else stop mouthing off about it. Your unwillingness to believe that these women are *actually* poor, and begging to earn money shows how detached you are. The fact that you think people only give to beggers to make themselves feel better is fairly pathetic tbh.

Rb

InFront wrote:

Why don't you ever link to some evidence, or else stop mouthing off about it. Your unwillingness to believe that these women are *actually* poor, and begging to earn money shows how detached you are. The fact that you think people only give to beggers to make themselves feel better is fairly pathetic tbh.

Theres jobs in this country for everyone that wants one, why should it be acceptable for someone to sit out on the street and pester passer-bys for money?

Stark

InFront wrote:

Why don't you ever link to some evidence, or else stop mouthing off about it. Your unwillingness to believe that these women are *actually* poor, and begging to earn money shows how detached you are. The fact that you think people only give to beggers to make themselves feel better is fairly pathetic tbh.

The point isn't whether the women and children on the streets are poor or not. There are some genuinely poor people on the streets, I admit that. The point Boston is making is that your money is not going to do them any good. Charity organisations who deal with these problems will in no uncertain terms tell you not to give money directly to a beggar. Instead donate your time or money to a charity who can give proper help and support. The aim is to break the generational cycle of begging, not to reinforce it.

If you've ever been to a country where child begging is rampant, you would see things that would make you sick. Children with different women every day (just because you see a child with a woman, doesn't mean she's its mother). Brutish oafs taking money from the children, giving them a smack across the face, sending them back with bruises to beg for more money. You've heard of children being kidnapped and sold into slavery. For many children, slavery means begging on the streets. This happens because children bring in so much money from people's feelings of guilt and sympathy.

Your arguments remind me of the circular argument: "There's nothing wrong with buying a stolen TV. It's already been stolen. Sure, someone else will buy it if I don't etc.". Or the arguments people use to justify buying drugs despite the damage drug crime causes.

InFront

Rb ie:
You do know they aren't allowed access the labour market here?
Or claim child benefit?
Begging seems to earn them a better living, and guarantee some sort of future for the Romanian children than would be available in their home country. I'm not necessarily making excuses, but those are the facts.

And Stark, I don't have a problem giving money to charities, I'd be happy top do so. The point is just that a woman begging with her child is an immediate example of someone who needs loose change more than we do.

walrusgumble

fair enough with what you say there rb ie, but how many employers will want to employ people who have no fixed abode and are genuinely homeless and poor?

the shelters cant staty open all day, many a runned by volunteers.

dame

Just before Christmas was the only time I ever gave anything to a beggar on the street. I was headed for the Luas on Abbey Street and there was a girl (Irish), sitting shivering (no coat) with an empty coffee cup out. I was going to give her money but then thought of the whole drugs/pimp taking her money thing. I hopped into sandwich bar and got her a pre-packed BLT and a hot choc and gave them to her. She said thanks then put her head down into her arms again. She didn't eat the sandwich, it went straight into a bag and when I passed by on the Luas less than 2 mins later the hot choc was nowhere in sight. Must have been the Christmas spirit or the cold that moved me. I do feel she was a genuine case though.

I agree that there are more Roma gypsies out begging with kids lately but don't forget the travellers have been at that for years in this country. Last year we had one woman who came to every house in our estate on a saturday. She had a toddler by the hand and a baby in her arms. I have to admit I didn't give her anything and closed the door pretty quickly. My nextdoor neighbour was doing the same when the woman spotted her little daughter and asked for "a few nappies for the childer". My neighbour went in and got her a couple and when she handed them to her the woman got nasty and asked her why wouldn't she give the pack?? My neighbour told her to get lost and tried to close the door but the woman shoved the toddler in so she couldn't close it. The woman then basically demanded money and my neighbour put her hand into her pocket just to get rid of her. The woman grabbed it and then had the cheek to ask "is that all?". Neighbour was now furious so she roared at her and shoved herself and the child out. It was only afterwards my neighbour realised she'd given her the guts of ten quid by accident! She'd gone to the shop for a litre of milk earlier with a tenner in her pocket so there was a lot of change. Anyway after that another neighbour offered her a used buggy for the kids. The woman accepted it (a decent 3 year old Graco one) but abandoned it inside the estate before she left. Anyway she came back to the estate for the next two saturdays and got quicker and more efficient each week. She didn't bother with the houses where she got nothing the first week but went back to my neighbours each week! The second week I was heading out for a walk and saw her getting into a BMW with a man at the entrance to the estate!!! I feel so sorry for those kids but there's no way I'd give anything to such an ignorant rude woman. Also, they get plenty of social welfare (some even register their kids a couple of times so they can claim benefit in more than one town).

InFront

She sold the nappies and bought the BMW tbh

Stark

InFront wrote:

Begging seems to earn them a better living, and guarantee some sort of future for the Romanian children than would be available in their home country. I'm not necessarily making excuses, but those are the facts.

A future of more begging? Those children should be in school if their future is a concern.

walrusrumble wrote:

fair enough with what you say there rb ie, but how many employers will want to employ people who have no fixed abode and are genuinely homeless and poor?

That's fair enough. Some people do genuinely get the **** end of the stick and find themselves homeless and not due to their own fault. I've heard landlords not accepting rent allowance is a particular problem.

InFront

If they can get a school to take them then yes they certainly should be in school. Many of them don't seem to be old enough in fairness, it's usually babies. These parents also tend to have a background that doesn't understand the importance of getting an education, from what I can see. There's undoubtedly a massive culture clash there, they tend not to be educated and marry young. they also tend to live isolated lives and are wary of integration by all accounts, a lot of that is to do with their past.
That all needs to change, but if weighing up whether to go for coffee or give away a fairly pitiful amount of loose change, I'll still be sticking with the latter.

Boston

InFront wrote:

Rb ie:
You do know they aren't allowed access the labour market here?
Or claim child benefit?
Begging seems to earn them a better living, and guarantee some sort of future for the Romanian children than would be available in their home country. I'm not necessarily making excuses, but those are the facts.

And Stark, I don't have a problem giving money to charities, I'd be happy top do so. The point is just that a woman begging with her child is an immediate example of someone who needs loose change more than we do.

You say immediate, I say convenient. Give you're loose change to a charity and it will definitely do some good, to beggars you're just propagating the cycle of begging. You talk about facts, these romani beggars have been begging for generations, and it's not going to stop though peace meal crap like what you do.

InFront

No, prove something of the begging ring that these women are part of, you know? The big moneymaking consapiracy you think they're involved with?

Terry

InFront, I know you are not that naive. These begging rings are in existence and have been in Dublin for many years.
As for those of you attacking him, it's his choice who he gives his money to.

Boston

InFront wrote:

No, prove something of the begging ring that these women are part of, you know? The big moneymaking consapiracy you think they're involved with?

Why would I waste my time. If you where interested in finding out, you'd watch one of these women, and what happens to the money collected.

Julep: Yes it's his choice, but he pretending to be superior, that what he's doing is fighting child poverty, when in fact he's actually the reason these people are on the streets.

stepbar

rb_ie wrote:

Nah, sure Limerick has enough problems as it is...

Leitrim, the place that noone cares about, that'd be ideal
Or perhaps an Island off the coast...or maybe even just throw them up North

Ur a funny man rb_ie.... a funny man.....

stepbar

Boston wrote:

You say immediate, I say convenient. Give you're loose change to a charity and it will definitely do some good, to beggars you're just propagating the cycle of begging. You talk about facts, these romani beggars have been begging for generations, and it's not going to stop though peace meal crap like what you do.

I agree. There are organisations out there who are underfunded as it is. If every person gave these orgs a fiver it would make a difference instead of it being spent on another can of cider.

Terry

stepbar wrote:

I agree. There are organisations out there who are underfunded as it is. If every person gave these orgs a fiver it would make a difference instead of it being spent on another can of cider.

Can I have a sip of that? I'd like to know what a €5 can of cider tastes like.

Boston

julep wrote:

Can I have a sip of that? I'd like to know what a €5 can of cider tastes like.

More self rightous crap. I work hard, and Ill spend what little money I have on what i want, and it I want to piss it up against the side of the wall, then bully for me.

Julep: It tastes like apples.

Terry

Hehe.
I take it you have never seen Pulp Fiction.

stepbar

julep wrote:

Can I have a sip of that? I'd like to know what a €5 can of cider tastes like.

Now julep get off that high horse will ya and stop being a smart arse...

I have yet to find a begger who is either not an alco or on drugs. Giving money directly to these people serves no other purpose other than to inflate an already oversized ego. Go out and raise a few quid for the St Vincent de Paul if their plight concerns you so much, far more worthy cause. At least I can be assured that the money that is raised will be spent on trying to get these people off the streets.

Terry

My comedy stylings are wasted here.
Go to your local video shop and rent Pulp Fiction.

InFront

Boston wrote:

Why would I waste my time.

You can't just make statements and not back them up. Well you can, but it just doesn't give you any credibility.

Julep = Terry?
edit: yes, apparently, just saw another post... How gender ambivalent!

patrickc

for those giving to begging children/mothers with kids read this

Remember giving money to a child who begs does not help to address the long-term reasons why a child is on the street begging. There are better ways to help these families, which ensures that the reasons behind the begging are addressed.
If you would like to avail of any of the ISPCC Leanbh services or would like any further information, please contact one of our Childhood Support Workers on 01 6447712.

Also if you call that number, a leanbh worker will go and see the child/parent and intervene..

http://www.ispcc.ie/leanbh.htm

InFront

Sounds like an excellent idea patrick, do you work with them?

Boston

InFront wrote:

You can't just make statements and not back them up. Well you can, but it just doesn't give you any credibility.

Are you saying that you don't believe that these women are in begging rings? You see most people are aware that this is now it works, and I think you're demanding it be backed up merely to be nickpicking, and unwilling to face reality. So why would I be arsed going off looking up studies when you'll just deny them. Seriously have a look next time you see one of these romani beggers go get a coffee and watch here for an hour or so, sooner or laters someone will be around to make a collection.

Terry

Ok, relax. This is verging on personal attacks.
I don't like locking threads, but I'll lock this one if this crap continues.
You are both entitled to your opinions. Just agree to disagree. There is no need to bring this any further.
InFront, It's only reasonable that I give you the opportunity to reply to Boston, but after that I do not want to see any more of this back and forth crap.

c - 13

Just to jump in on this there are people who are begging for genuine reaons but there are also people who are doing it to try and make cash.

Case in point
I'm recently back from venice, and passed a woman on the street with a begging bowl having a great chat on her nice, shiny, new mobile phone. We passed back two minutes later and the phone had been stowed and she was giving it socks with the bowl. So if she was/is so poor she has to resort to begging how does one explain the phone.

(I know the thread is mostly Ireland orientated, but I felt it a valid point)

Boston

Terry wrote:

Ok, relax. This is verging on personal attacks.
I don't like locking threads, but I'll lock this one if this crap continues.
You are both entitled to your opinions. Just agree to disagree. There is no need to bring this any further.
InFront, It's only reasonable that I give you the opportunity to reply to Boston, but after that I do not want to see any more of this back and forth crap.

I've not personally attacked the guy, on the other hand he has made tiny veiled references to "the stupidity of some irish people" aka me, and the Stupid posts, which we all know require stupid posters.

Terry

I didn't say he personally attacked you. My point was directed at both of you and several others in this thread.

InFront

Boston wrote:

Seriously have a look next time you see one of these romani beggers go get a coffee and watch her for an hour or so

Watch her? Before she whizzes away in a passing Mercedes, presumably.

What patrickc2006 suggested is a far better and more constructive suggestion than anything you've managed to post.
Can you even understand what it must be like to live in a country where you are entitled to nothing but the limited resources of chartitable organisations? No dole, no work permit, no child benefit, yet an EU citizen. What these women are doing isn't commendable, but to suggest that they're doing it maliciously or are part of some criminal conspiracy seems like the kind of paranoid, selfish, insular attitude that most people leave in the cradle.

Terry

And we are done. Thanks folks.
Take it to PM if you feel the need to discuss this aspect of begging any further.

patrickc

I work indirectly in that field. Leanbh is a great service use it if possible.

Rb

stepbar wrote:

Ur a funny man rb_ie.... a funny man.....

Thanks Stepbar.

Duff

Anyone see the freaky lookin yoke on ha'penny bridge last friday begging?? She was all dressed in red (tights, top and shoes) had mad lookin hair and a pale face all the time smokin a joint! how the hell is she gonna get money when all she is doing is making sure people avoid her cus of the way shes dressed!!