Dario Argento Box Set

Fysh

So a while ago I picked up the Dario Argento Collection as it was on offer for 30 euro on Play.com. I've now watched (or attempted to watch) 3 of the 5 films in the set.

I must say, I'm kind of disappointed. The production values are kind of rubbish on all of them, though it's something I can happily ignore for a decent story. But having watched Tenebrae, The Stendhal Syndrome and (some of) The Card Player, I'm left only appreciating Stendhal Syndrome.

The acting in Tenebrae is woeful (and I'm saying that as someone who still holds the original Friday The 13th in high regard), and while there are some nice set pieces in it I got bored after a while and wasn't too worried about not knowing who was getting killed because it seemed to descend into a slaughterfest, with a nice twist which was nonetheless insufficient to redeem the film.

The Stendhal Syndrome has marginally better production values and somewhat better acting. It's still very much an 80's horror/thriller from Europe, but the stronger storyline and intriguing visuals that are part of the plot make up for it more. Add to this an unusual story development and you get a much better film.

As for the Card Player...well, put it this way. It's a recent flick trying to be an american slasher. With woeful casting (seriously, it looks like he roped family and friends into appearing in the film), a bad script & dialogue, and a gammy audio track on the DVD whose volume kept dropping, I lasted about 15-20 minutes into this before consigning it to the Not Watching heap.

I have Terror At The Opera and Suspiria yet to go, but so far I'm less than impressed. Tenebrae in particular showed little material to justify its standing in the horror lexicon (given that it's held in high regard by, among others, the compilers of the Box Of The Banned).

So, can anyone (Karl Hungus, I'm looking your way) point out the things I might have missed which Argento is famous for, and perhaps suggest other films of his that I could check out to appreciate his work more? (I know he did a version of Dawn Of The Dead which is on my list to have a sconce at; any other suggestions would be great).

DerekP11

Argento has a big back catalogue and a lot of it isn't even in the horror vein.

My recommendations (and some are hard to get) are;

L'uccello dalle piume di cristallo (1970) AKA The bird with the crystal plummage. A whodunnit. Very stylish

Profondo Rosso (1976) AKA Deep Red. Similar to the above.

Suspiria (1977) which you have.

Inferno (1980) I can't believe its not in the box set.

Its generally accepted that Argentos career nosedived since, although Opera isn't that bad.

He produced Lamberto Bava's Demons and Demons 2 in '86 and '87. They're worth a watch just for a laugh.

Overall, his best is behind him and that boxset is perhaps a poor representation of a film-maker that couldn't get real credit in the mainstream for various reasons. (he didn't make a film in English until '85)

Hope this helps.

Den_M

Watched Suspiria and another I can't remember the name of and was also disspointed both times. After hearing so much about Argento I expected much more.

I've always found his films to be overrated. Suspiria was okay but hardly the work of genius most call it.

I watched half of The Bird with the Crystal Plummage recently and couldnt be bothered to finish it.

trendkill

I found terror at the opera to be a good show.... but keep away from his Phantom of the Opera... my lord.

Argento is referred to as a genius because of the atmosphere and mood he creates in his shots..... for example.... when you watch Terror at the opera. Theres a scene where Ravens are let free in side the opera house. Argento follows one crow amidst a flock of them, flying all around and up to the top of the opera... without cutting. The camera was on a massive crane....
Anyone in film would say **** off to a shot like this.. that its impossible.... you cant predict where the bird is going to fly.... it could do anything....

Its stuff like this that he is classed as a genius and rightly so.

I also enjoyed Tenebrae.....
In inferno theres also some other great camera work...
Suspiria got a lovely red (evil) twinge...
Check out his Black Cat on Romero/s Two Evil Eyes..... Harvey keitel plays the main protagonist.
Its Argento's insight that puts him miles ahead fo anyone thats around at the moment(suave the classics)

Ive always ignored the bad acting in his movies and focused on what he's showing us through the lens. I once read an interview with argento.. it was a great read.... he explains that he will not put up with egotistical actors that will throw wobbles if someone doesnt get them a right colored banana etc. The story is the primary, the acting secondary.... not vice versa.

DerekP11

Ah trendkill, you're bringing it all back now. Us lowly Argento appreciaters. I reckon its an age thing.

Continuing on from your great post, what about the pacing and editing of the sequence in Inferno where the bookseller tries to drown some cats, gets attacked by rats, calls for help and a nearby hot dog seller races to help (apparently) and with standard issue meat cleaver, hacks him to death.
That was first class film-making.

In relation to Argento and those who aren't impressed with him, I think much of the accolade comes from people with an interest in the film-making craft and the horror subject. Combining the two facets often generates a dedicated appreciation. Looking at him on the basis of entertainment alone and his unfortunate position in relation to budgets, dubbing problems and distribution, creates negative perceptions. Furthermore, I do believe that anyone in their 20s will have difficulty in appreciating Argento. Im 35 and when VHS first arrived on the scene, most big American studios were very slow to capitalise on it. Therefore my local video library was full of the Italian "giallo" when I was a kid. VHS was a great way for film-makers to get the product onto the market and to satisfy demand distributors were buying up all kinds of titles especially horror. I even remember seeing a Hong Kong produced horror called "Scorpion Thunderbolt".:eek:

trendkill

I'm 25...... what got me into Argento was years ago... many many years ago....., CH4 use to have themed seasons, for a few months it was troma.... and one season was Argento, Suspiria.... all those Maggots!!! YUCK...

Plus he's use of music is fabulous.... almost every film he uses "Goblin".....
They are the Crowd that did the music for the original Dawn of the Dead...
Ive got a few of their albums/soundtrackss on itunes..... great listen.... especially walking down a creepy road at night time... gets your heart beating everytime.

This music just adds so much to the atmosphere of the films.....
I Like argento... he gets my thumbs up :cool: .... especially for bringing Asia Argento into this world.......(I could put in some sexual innuendo right here in the same context as what i used at the start of this scentence.... but i won't):D

When i was ten, after school I would go to a friends house, all his brothers would have been dodging school and watching horror movies every day.... We'd sit and watch em with the brothers...(since then.... Horrors all the way) . Thats how I was schooled......

Almost 15 years later..... im starting to think i might have been better off doing whatever the other 10 year olds were doing...(bit too introverted now)

TerrorFirmer

I thought Demons was fantastic, personally.

trendkill

i agree... but thought the sequel was a bit .... meh!!
using some of the same actors.....

Karl Hungus

Fysh wrote:

So, can anyone (Karl Hungus, I'm looking your way) point out the things I might have missed which Argento is famous for, and perhaps suggest other films of his that I could check out to appreciate his work more? (I know he did a version of Dawn Of The Dead which is on my list to have a sconce at; any other suggestions would be great).

Those box sets usually pack a lot of crap along with one or two decent films, and the one you've got looks like it's packed full of rubbish.

Dario Argento excelled in the 70's but from the mid 80's his work suffered a lot, a lot of which rehashed his older work. Most of his recent work is supposedly garbage, I haven't even seen the Card Player, because I know what to expect from him lately.

Suspiria is probably one of his best, so I'd say watch that and then decide what you think of him. I'd seriously recommend seeing Profondo Rosso aswell though, I'd say that's one of his greatest masterpieces, it's ****ing chilling and incredibly influential.

jac83

Den_M wrote:

Watched Suspiria and another I can't remember the name of and was also disspointed both times. After hearing so much about Argento I expected much more.

i totally agree,i watched suspiria and tenebrae after hearing brilliant reviews and was totally dissapointed!

Karl Hungus

Any update on this Fysh?

Fysh

Will be watching Suspiria tonight, and if all goes well it will be followed by Terror At The Opera. We'll see how I get on from there. I'm looking forward to Terror At The Opera now just for the scenes that have been mentioned in this thread though, which is a good thing (after Card Player I was seriously considering binning the whole box set apart from Stendhal Syndrome).

Fysh

Ended up watching Terror At The Opera instead of Suspiria, and was reasonably happy with it. Production values were the usual mediocre, and the story wasn't particularly impressive. There again, this wasn't too upsetting given that it's a straightforward murder mystery. Some interesting angles like the contrasting styles of music used in certain scenes and some of the visuals made it a pleasant enough watch, although still very dated.

I'll be watching Suspiria at some point over the next few days and hopefully it'll be a decent watch - turns out I've got a 2 disc version so there might be some interesting extras, but overall I'm still pretty disappointed. Oh well.

(On an unrelated note, play.com will be sending me another 5 films soon, this time purchases from their world cinema offer at the moment. Worth checking out if anyone's missing anything from their collections)

Karl Hungus

Fysh wrote:

(after Card Player I was seriously considering binning the whole box set apart from Stendhal Syndrome).

I'd say a hell of a lot of Argento fans wouldn't blame you either. It seems like a common occorunce with these legendary Horror directors, they've a few masterpieces, and then things start to decline.

It's like John Carpenter. We had Halloween, The Thing and Escape From New York... Then we had Escape From L.A. and... *shudder* Ghosts Of Mars. What went so horribly horribly wrong?

As with Carpenter, you can pretty much see a very steady decline in Argento's work over the years, for example:

Profondo Rosso - 100%
The Bird With The Crystal Plumage - 100%
Suspiria - 89%
Stendhal Syndrome - 63%
The Card Player - 33%

DerekP11

Karl Hungus wrote:

It's like John Carpenter. We had Halloween, The Thing and Escape From New York... Then we had Escape From L.A. and... *shudder* Ghosts Of Mars. What went so horribly horribly wrong?

As with Carpenter, you can pretty much see a very steady decline in Argento's work over the years, for example:

You forgot "The Fog".

Carpenter has done his time and apart from "vampires" his recent output reeks of a man who made the dosh and is just passing through time. Argento is the same. But in younger days they became legendary. No amount of unappreciative opinion from younger horror fans will change that. (not citing anyone in particular)For example I don't believe Rob Zombie will ever be held in the same high esteem as these guys. Whats he done? What ground has he broken? Rob is a capable guy, making a living and pleasing a fan base. Fair play. He knows his way around a set with a camera, but there it ends.

DerekP11

DerekP11 wrote:

You forgot "The Fog".

Carpenter has done his time and apart from "vampires" his recent output reeks of a man who made the dosh and is just passing through time. Argento is the same. But in younger days they became legendary. No amount of unappreciative opinion from younger horror fans will change that. (not citing anyone in particular)For example I don't believe Rob Zombie will ever be held in the same high esteem as these guys. Whats he done? What ground has he broken? Rob is a capable guy, making a living and pleasing a fan base. Fair play. He knows his way around a set with a camera, but there it ends.

I believe that Zombie is one of the finest directors currently working. I love both House of a 1000 Corpses and The Devil's Rejects, I'd go as far as to say that The Devil's Rejects is one of the films of the past decade.

Carpenter and Argento both suffer from GRS, (Guy Ritchie Syndrome). Both are talented directors whom should be kept as far away as possible from the writing stage of any projects they work on.

niallon

I'll try not to get into a big John Carpenter defencive argument here but I don't think Carpenter really has declined as badly as some. It's just that what he declined to was such pure muck (excluding Cigarette Burns) Ghosts Of Mars, Memoirs Of An Invisible Man, brutal, horrific, but before that you have Escape From LA: underrated. Big Trouble In Little China: hilarious,come on! I haven't personally managed to see the closing chapter of the Apocalypse trilogy but In The Mouth Of Madness get's praise thrown at it. At least Carpenter has taken his own advice and retired, kinda......

Karl Hungus

In response to Carpenter, I wasn't trying to name all the good films he's ever done. If I was, I'd certainly include films like Assault On Precinct 13, Dark Star, They Live, and of course Big Trouble In Little China (Which is a film I never said anything bad about, what's the "Come on" for?). The Fog was ok, I think it's dated pretty badly compared to his other films mind you, but In The Mouth Of Madness was great, and Vampires was a nice bit of fun.

With reguards to Rob Zombie, quite frankly I find he's one of the best horror directors in America right now. Sure, House Of 1000 Corpses wasn't all that good, but The Devil's Rejects was possible one of the best slashers I've ever seen, ever. Essentially it was one of the best written films of the genre, and criminally under-rated if anything.

Of course, while he hasn't (yet) accomplished what Argento in his prime has, I'd say there were probably people saying the same thing back in the day about Argento not having accomplished what Hitchcock has done. All I can say is that I'm eagerly anticipating what Rob Zombie has to offer, and people should certainly keep a look out for anything he's working on.

niallon

Karl Hungus wrote:

(Which is a film I never said anything bad about, what's the "Come on" for?).

Wasn't aimed at you, just a silly omission of a smiley. I was relating to the fact that people take it too seriously sometimes. Apologies for any mix up

DerekP11

Tower Records, Wicklow St. Dublin are selling "the ultimate Argento box set". it includes Profondo Rosso, crystal plummage and more. Good for 40 quid. This may be a better introduction the the mans work.