Banning policy on IrelandOffline forum.

mayhem#

I asked (what I thought) was a reasonable question on the IOFFL forum last week.
Please see the discussion that ensued: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52700491#post52700491

I tried to keep it civil even though the repeated personal insults thrown in my direction.
To top it off, one off the mods "CGarvey" makes the suggestion that I PM him if I want to discuss things further. So I sent him a PM.
He then replies by posting thet I should not PM him and that if I do not stop it he wil ban me.
I reply by qouting the post in which he suggest that I sent him a PM.
He replies by banning me.
Fair?
Not fair?
Your opinions please...

E.

nesf

I'd read it as trolling a forum pervaded by group-think, personally. Though CGarvey shouldn't have gotten involved in the thread and then banned you in my opinion.

seamus

I'll wait to give cgarvey a chance to get his side in.

However, just one point;

mayhem# wrote:

To top it off, one off the mods "CGarvey" makes the suggestion that I PM him if I want to discuss things further. So I sent him a PM.
He then replies by posting thet I should not PM him and that if I do not stop it he wil ban me.
I reply by qouting the post in which he suggest that I sent him a PM.

What cgarvey said was perfectly clear, and it's on the thread for all to hear.
He asked you to do 2 things before continuing to post, and told you to PM himself or myself if you had a problem with that.

You apparently then PMed him to discuss the topic. Which is not what he said.

mayhem#

seamus wrote:

You apparently then PMed him to discuss the topic. Which is not what he said.

OK, so apprantly I mis-understood what he meant.
His reaction is still a bit rash and opinionated..
Meanwhile the personal attacks continue in spite of these contravening the forum regulations. I do NOT see anyone taking action against that.

E.

Faith

Meh, nevermind.

User45701

After reading the two pages id have to say it was a unfair ban and also what Faith pointed out. There was more reason to ban "To_be_confirmed" than the OP

nesf

Faith wrote:

All the bits in bold are personal abuse and shouldn't have been tolerated by the mods, imo.

Like I said above, groupthink. You can, if you wish, read the thread as mayhem# 'upsetting the natives' and provoking such reactions if you wish and then you'd be giving the benifit of the doubt to the poster above.

It's all shades of grey...

aidan_walsh

Reasonable thread that got out of hand, IMO. If IOFL can't take criticism, thats their problem.

"Upsetting the natives?" Ok, but thats going to happen when people say that they don't like what you're doing. Does that mean you're not supposed to say it? The OP got accused of throwing toys out of the pram. IMO, he wasn't alone.

nesf

aidan_walsh wrote:

"Upsetting the natives?" Ok, but thats going to happen when people say that they don't like what you're doing. Does that mean you're not supposed to say it? The OP got accused of throwing toys out of the pram. IMO, he wasn't alone.

I'm not saying that it's reasonable or right. I'm just saying that you could read it that way if you wanted to. Personally I'm witholding judgement over whether it was fair or not until CGarvey comments on this but I would take a dim view on mayhem# not being upfront about having an 'alternative' when starting that thread tbh, but that's just my gut feeling rather than having anything to do with fairness, justification or anything.

mayhem#

I was not trying to pretend that *I* had the alternative, just that it might be worth looking at an alternative approach. I have contacted Damien on several occasions (via email/blog/IM) suggesting that we have a chat about this but he has never replied. I thought that I would try to get a discussion going this way but it turned out to be a different discussion than I intended.

E.

nesf

mayhem# wrote:

I was not trying to pretend that *I* had the alternative, just that it might be worth looking at an alternative approach. I have contacted Damien on several occasions (via email) suggesting that we have a chat about this but he has never replied. I thought that I would try to get a discussion going this way but it turned out to be a different discussion than I intended.

E.

I wasn't trying to imply that you had the alternative, I'd just consider it proper for you to be clear that you were involved in the industry at the start of the thread. The reasons should be obvious.

Also, you should know as a mod, the thread starter doesn't, and shouldn't, control how the discussion will go. This site isn't a blog after all.

damien

mayhem# wrote:

I have contacted Damien on several occasions (via email) suggesting that we have a chat about this but he has never replied.

That's an outright lie Evert. The only email I sent to you and the only one you sent back as a result was when you requested a link to your site from my personal site. You have never sent an email to me about IrelandOffline, about the purpose of IrelandOffline or for a discussion. You have left comments on my personal site in the past wanting to discuss your "alternative" for broadband which I really couldn't be bothered with. Never ever have you sent me or IrelandOffline an email to discuss IrelandOffline matters. Apart from your blog commets on my site the only other communication was an IM on my Meebo stating "What the HELL is your problem?" Is that what you meant?

The issue in all of this is you took an argument on my personal site over to the IrelandOffline forum on boards.ie a whole 16 minutes after I relayed I have no time for you.

Had you any genuine interest in IrelandOffline's runnings you would have actually sent an email to our well advertised email account or sent any of us an email. That has never happened.

There have been other threads about IrelandOffline and what exactly it is supposed to be doing. Funnily enough the current committee started some of them to get discussions going. These have happened in the time you have returned to Ireland, you never contributed. You were asked to contribute constructively to the thread you started and you failed to do so.

mayhem#

Damien,

I am not going to get in to a long drawn out argument with you here.
This thread is about the fact that the ban was harsh & uncalled for.

You also seem to unable to understand that, when I suggest that an alternative approach might be needed to get broadband to the part of the Irish population that does not have access to it, I am not referring to a alternative that I can/might provide.
The fact that I am comercially involved in the provision of broadband does NOT mean that this is the only reason why I want to "bring broadband to the masses".

I am more than willing to enter into a meaningfull discussion with you (or anyone else in IOFFL). Please let me know what way I can contact someone and I will do so. However I prefer to do this in a more direct medium than a forum, email or blog...

E.

segadreamcast

mayhem# wrote:

I have contacted Damien on several occasions (via email)

E.

I like the way you conveniently dropped this point in your last post. It's all a conspiracy - IOFFL are out to get you etc etc... or maybe you're just making stuff up. Who knows?

gandalf

TBH you're talking about an alternative approach but wouldn't it have been more prudent to list what your alternative is on that thread rather than asking open ended questions like the ones you did.

Imho you came off quite arrogant in that thread and I can understand why damien took the stance he did, especially as you have a reason commercially for an alternative. Not sure of the history between you and Damien but it doesn't seem a happy one.

Praetorian

Seems to me you are just another shill. You resell Wimax kit. You started on another website wanting in on the IrelandOffline momentum, got knocked back and decided to attack the group on their forum as a result. Like all other shills you should be banned. Fair play to CGarvey for giving you the benefit of the doubt before the ban

Talliesin

It's a hosted forum. Unless a hosted moderator's actions are in some way against the general rules on boards they can do whatever the hell they want.

There's no point discussing a hosted boards policies on feedback, as the site doesn't decide on their policies except in setting certain limits for the sake of the site as a whole.

mayhem#

Praetorian wrote:

Seems to me you are just another shill. You resell Wimax kit. You started on another website wanting in on the IrelandOffline momentum, got knocked back and decided to attack the group on their forum as a result. Like all other shills you should be banned. Fair play to CGarvey for giving you the benefit of the doubt before the ban

I sell wimax kit?
Can you actually produce one shred of proof for that?

E.

mayhem#

Talliesin wrote:

It's a hosted forum. Unless a hosted moderator's actions are in some way against the general rules on boards they can do whatever the hell they want.

There's no point discussing a hosted boards policies on feedback, as the site doesn't decide on their policies except in setting certain limits for the sake of the site as a whole.

Well, CGarvey suggested that I post a message here if I did not agree with the ban...

E.

Bard

mayhem# wrote:

I sell wimax kit?
Can you actually produce one shred of proof for that?

E.

Funny... apart from your email address (which is on display in your public profile) being evert@wireless-kit.com (small clue, that), your own blog says you are "CEO of a start-up WISP".

That's enough for me to take what Praetorian says seriously. I'm sure there's probably other 'shreds of proof' in past boards.ie posts of yours but I can't be arsed looking. If you don't sell wimax kit, then feel free to not beat around the proverbial bush and JUST SAY "I DON'T SELL WIMAX KIT!"... but as it is, it's an easily understandable conclusion to have drawn about you under the circumstances.

seamus

mayhem#. It's very clear from your posts here and in the other thread that you will argue with the wall.

You quote every post as a personal attack on yourself and attempt to defend yourself with questions and question-dodging statements.

You don't seem to wish to contribute to any thread except to question everyone else's statements and argue.

This is the reason that your complaint isn't really being taken all that seriously and why cgarvey (and every other poster on IOFFL) became frustrated with you. Even after being asked to contribute meaningfully, you argued about that.

mayhem#

Bard wrote:

Funny... apart from your email address (which is on display in your public profile) being evert@wireless-kit.com (small clue, that), your own blog says you are "CEO of a start-up WISP".

That's enough for me to take what Praetorian says seriously. I'm sure there's probably other 'shreds of proof' in past boards.ie posts of yours but I can't be arsed looking. If you don't sell wimax kit, then feel free to not beat around the proverbial bush and JUST SAY "I DON'T SELL WIMAX KIT!"... but as it is, it's an easily understandable conclusion to have drawn about you under the circumstances.

It is easily understandable for someone who does not look any further than the company name. Also does the fact that I am professionally involved in the provision of broadband that I am biased and should not get involved in the discussion?
But just for the sake of argument: "I do NOT sell Wimax kit". I have however in the past sold bits of wifi kit but that has been either through a different company or more recently in a private capacity.

Anyway, my aim of posting here was not to continue the discussion that had started in the IOFFL forum but rather draw the attention to what I considered an unfair ban.

E.

mayhem#

seamus wrote:

mayhem#. It's very clear from your posts here and in the other thread that you will argue with the wall.

Yes, I'm argumetative f*cker

You quote every post as a personal attack on yourself and attempt to defend yourself with questions and question-dodging statements.

You're telling me that there have been no personal attacks in either of the threads? If I am dodging questions in your opinion please point them out and I will answer them as well as possible.

You don't seem to wish to contribute to any thread except to question everyone else's statements and argue.

Really? Does that refer to this thread and the one in the IOFFL forum or to all postings I ever made?

This is the reason that your complaint isn't really being taken all that seriously and why cgarvey (and every other poster on IOFFL) became frustrated with you. Even after being asked to contribute meaningfully, you argued about that.

The reason why my argumenet isn't being taken is that IOFFL is obviously quick to close ranks when questions are being asked. My intention was to get a picture of IOFFL's goals and achievements in order to determine if I wanted to become involved in their activities. After all IOFFL is not the only organisation that strives to improve the availability of broadband internet access in this country. And neither are their members the only people "campaigning" for this.

E.

mayhem#

I also suggest that this thread is locked (unless anyone objects).
I's going nowhere and we hopefully all have better things to do.
If anyone has any question/issues thay want to discuss with me they can contact me directly.
This also goes for anyone who is willing to enter into a meaningfull discussion about expanding the availabilty of broadband in this country.

E.

seamus

mayhem# wrote:

You're telling me that there have been no personal attacks in either of the threads? If I am dodging questions in your opinion please point them out and I will answer them as well as possible.

I didn't say that there were no personal attacks against you. But you've illustrated my point nicely.

Really? Does that refer to this thread and the one in the IOFFL forum or to all postings I ever made?

Just these two threads. But again, illustrating my point nicely.

I'm not making any judgements about the issue here at all, just providing you with some suggestions. Your posting style is extremely aggressive-defensive. I'm not telling you whether you were right or wrong in this particular case, but I do believe that you would garner more support for yourself and get more listening/co-operative ears if you didn't spend most of your time attempting to defend yourself against valid questions/criticisms.

Vexorg

Closed.