The John Cena thread (contains Rumble spoilers)

Mr.Nice Guy

I've been reading a lot of feedback to the Rumble and many fans have said Cena's match with Umaga was his best match ever and may have been a career performance. I find it difficult to disagree with that. Even though I wanted Cena to win, purely because I didn't feel Umaga should be champ, during the course of the match I found myself rooting for Cena due to his great showing.

I think there is a big difference between Cena and Batista. Kennedy had to carry Batista last night whereas Cena made Umaga look like a monster whilst getting himself over in the process.

Personally speaking, I don't dislike Cena as much as I used to. I think he's trying really hard and he's probably endured more abuse than any babyface in history.

What about you guys? What are your thoughts on him now?

Gillie

I don't have a problem with the guy!
What I do have a problem with:
-A very limited moveset just like the Rock had. PPL didn't like it then and they don't like it now.
-Being shoved down ppl's throat as a Face when ppl are booing the guy!
WWE have never learned here! Turning Austin when he was the biggest Face ever was another example of what not to do! Fair enough it worked well with the "What" catchphrase and all that but it was not the right thing to do.
Cena should be turned at Mania. The problem with it is that they would then leave the strap on him. Pointless!
I like the idea of Edge/Orton/Cena at WM. I think there is great potential there and I think that Orton and Edge are top class! Cena can carry matches but he always goes back to the same old moves (and I know he's not the only one guilty of this) but to me it's just like the "hulking up" stuff from years gone by! He's there for the kiddies.
JBL was pushed down ppls throats for a year! Crap wrestler but great on the mic!!! But he was a heel so it suited for ppl to despise him. Same with HHH until DX reformed.
It's so much easier to have someone as a heel rather than a face!

All that said the guy has taken it all in his stride. Good luck to him.

Shít. That turned out to be a bit of a rant!:eek:

Jonny Arson

I haven't seen his match last night but even though I've never been a fan of Cena's I do appreciate the fact that most of the time he gives it his all in the ring despite been pretty limited in that regard.

I think most of the abuse he gets come down to his gimmick. I hate his gimmick, WWE has given him too much and I do think he takes the spot light from better in ring performers which frustrates me (not his fault to be fair) but I don't hate the guy personally like I do with Triple H or Bradshaw. Once he doesn't develop a massive ego and keeps giving his all in the ring I'll continue to respect him but not cheer for him!

Batista on the other hand is a fcuking joke, he can't wrestle and has **** all charisma... at least Cena has charisma and is average in the ring.

Vince135792003

Zane from MTV2 wrote:

at least Cena has charisma and is average in the ring.

I think its even unfair to call Cena average in the ring at this stage. He's not Shawn Michaels. Never will be but he's good. And I absolutely see why WWE pushed/pushes him hard.

18 months ago I was one of those people that didn't think he was great in ring. In retrospect he wasn't as bad as I thought he was but at the same time he really has improved over the last 12-18 months.

He's had alot of good to great matches with talented guys like Edge and Triple H. And he's had some good matches with guys that maybe are considered less talented (Sabu, Nitro and Umaga)

The thing with Batista is that he was never a great worker. Never near it. But since returning from his injury he's so tentative. I think he's worried about that shoulder tearing again.

triple h

I AGREE 100% WITH mr nice guy.

Kennedy had a great match last night, the crowds were even on his side at one stage. Kennedy carried Batista.
Lashley only has two moves, bear hug and throw the guy over. That ecw title match was the worst match in history.
I am not a cena fan but as mr nice guy says, he tries.

Stalfos

Thought the smackdown title match was worse than the ECW title match. I felt bad about Kennedy cause he had a hard time of it dragging batista thru the match. Batista is crap. At least Lashey and TEST can wrestle more or less. It's funny how Batista was nearly a hero last year and everyone woulda stabbed Cena given the chance and both wrestlers haven't done much within that year.

d1sc0g1rl

OMG idon't think anything was worse then the ecw match lashley is just awful.They should have put C.M Punk or R.V.D in that match to make it a bit more watchable and get rid of that bag of steroids(sorry Test) that match was a total waste of time. now I come to think of it I dont know who is worse him or batisa.(dont get me started on batista)but fair play to cena he surpised me it was the best performance i've seen from him

Minto

Cena was class last night, but its time to take him out of the title picture for a while. Come Wrestlemania, he will have been champ for about 3/4 of the last 2 years, which if it was Triple H, people would be complaining left, right and centre about it.
Cena has improved a hell of a lot in the past 2 years and he will continue to do so, but why are WWE pushing him so hard at the moment? Its causing people like Christian and Rhyno to jump to TNA out of frustration with not being used properly and to get a world title run. Its a pity really, but its how Vince is doing business these days.
On a side note, i'd love to see 'Taker jump to RAW and kick Cena's ass at 'Mania, but then SmackDown! wouldn't have anyone for their main event.

Vince135792003

Minto wrote:

, but why are WWE pushing him so hard at the moment? I.

He makes them more money than anybody else.

Se7en

Gillie wrote:

I don't have a problem with the guy!
What I do have a problem with:
-A very limited moveset just like the Rock had. PPL didn't like it then and they don't like it now.

The Rock was one of the most over guys in wrestling. I dont see how you can say people didnt like it.

nacho libre

Give me Cena any day over Batista. I think he is very good on the mic and while not a great technical wrestler always gives it his all in the Ring. If The Undertaker goes to Raw it would the pave way for Kennedy to become the main guy on smackdown. After carrying Batista last night i think he's earned it. A feud between him and Benoit for the title would be good.

Vince135792003

It' Taker v Batista at Mania. By the way they are building it up on Smackdown , its pretty clear.

I really like the build up they have done between them so far. I can't say the actual match itself fills me with excitement but the build up to me is really good up till now.

Minto

Vince135792003 wrote:

It' Taker v Batista at Mania. By the way they are building it up on Smackdown , its pretty clear.

Word going round the wrestling 'news' websites, is that there is a 'major' change coming for Cena's match. It could be 'Taker versus Cena or it could be just a load of bullsh*t. But I wouldn't think any match, no matter what is done on TV, is set...yet.

nacho libre

Minto wrote:

Word going round the wrestling 'news' websites, is that there is a 'major' change coming for Cena's match. It could be 'Taker versus Cena or it could be just a load of bullsh*t. But I wouldn't think any match, no matter what is done on TV, is set...yet.

I hope that is the case. It would make sense after 'Takers appearance at the end of Raw!

krudler

cena/taker could be good at mania,since everyone is expecting the batista/taker match is a nice swerve to throw in there by vince,plus im going to be at it live and ill be booing cena out of the building if he ends takers streak

d1sc0g1rl

If the undertaker does go over to raw and face john cena for the title do us think cena will end the undertaker's streak?

Furious-Red

d1sc0g1rl wrote:

If the undertaker does go over to raw and face john cena for the title do us think cena will end the undertaker's streak?

Good god i hope not(but would not be suprised with wwe). that was the plan a few months ago when they were talking about Taker vs Batista Title vs winning streak with batista winning.

P.S The word going around is that Batista is not liked backstage at all because he apperently does not have passion for wrestling/sports entertainment.

irishcrazyhorse

no chance in hell, if they do taker v.cena, it wont be because they want cena to win, it will be cause they no cena can loose and wont loose any cred?

nacho libre

Yes. Unfortunately, i think if it's Cena V 'Taker... Cena will end 'Takers winning streak.

Vince135792003

nacho libre wrote:

Yes. Unfortunately, i think if it's Cena V 'Taker... Cena will end 'Takers winning streak.

It won't happen.

Terry

I don't know about that, Vince. Taker has been known to put people over in the past and i can see him doing it again. He's not as egomaniacal as most of them.

Vince135792003

julep wrote:

I don't know about that, Vince. Taker has been known to put people over in the past and i can see him doing it again. He's not as egomaniacal as most of them.

I mean the actual match itself not the finish. Everything points at 'Taker facing Batista. And I'm liking the build up.

To me the whole "who will 'taker face" is something to keep viewers interested given that Raw doesn't have a pay per view for the next 8 weeks.

Also, Cena and 'Taker only met on Raw in December if memory serves me right.

Plus Undertaker versus Batista has been teased on Smackdown for 3 weeks plus with it being built perfectly. Its a big match for the casual fan and its probably the biggest one they could book for Smackdown right now.

nacho libre

Vince135792003 wrote:

I mean the actual match itself not the finish. Everything points at 'Taker facing Batista. And I'm liking the build up.

To me the whole "who will 'taker face" is something to keep viewers interested given that Raw doesn't have a pay per view for the next 8 weeks.

Also, Cena and 'Taker only met on Raw in December if memory serves me right.

Plus Undertaker versus Batista has been teased on Smackdown for 3 weeks plus with it being built perfectly. Its a big match for the casual fan and its probably the biggest one they could book for Smackdown right now.

yes you are probably right. Smackdown needs that match.

Terry

Who's to say that Edge or Orton or both won't go to Smackdown?

irishcrazyhorse

julep wrote:

Who's to say that Edge or Orton or both won't go to Smackdown?

cuz they are the companys 2 top heels at the moment and they are not gonna drop them down to the B show... and i say the way things are going smackdown can take its pick of the ECW lads for a few new heels cuz that company is going belly up

jongore

Cena has done very well and I've never had a problem with him. He brings in the crowds, sells merchandise by the bucketload and is a good draw for PPVs, he'll be maineventing for a goodwhile yet especially with HHH on the the shelf.

Hogan, Austin, Rock and Mick Foley all had limited moves but could get a crowd going. Cena seems to be of the same breed.

The WWE is short on star power at the moment (how else could Batista, Bobby 'Cabbage 'Lashly, 'I failed the' Test and the Great Krapi get the pushes they have?.:rolleyes: ) and it's hard to see anyone else really carrying the torch for RAW at the mo. HBK needs a rest soon, Orton is unreliable backstage, leaving Edge as the only long term rival to Cena.

Minto

I'd say the state of mind Vince is in at the moment, he would prob see 'Taker Vs. Cena as a bigger money match and also, if they are gonna end the winning streak, it doesn't make sense to make somebody like Batista do it, Cena is much more deserving.....I guess we'll just have to wait for the speculated changes to leak!

Vince135792003

You could be right.

From pwinsider (so it comes with a serious BS warning):

The word going around at Raw last night, as well as today, is that at WrestleMania XXIII they'll do Cena .VS. Undertaker, HBK .VS. Batista, Lashley .VS. Holly, and Edge .VS. Orton.


I still think they'll do Batista 'Taker. But I'm a little less sure now!

triple h

Minto wrote:

I'd say the state of mind Vince is in at the moment, he would prob see 'Taker Vs. Cena as a bigger money match and also, if they are gonna end the winning streak, it doesn't make sense to make somebody like Batista do it, Cena is much more deserving.....I guess we'll just have to wait for the speculated changes to leak!

I agree

Mr.Nice Guy

Vince135792003 wrote:

You could be right.

From pwinsider (so it comes with a serious BS warning):

The word going around at Raw last night, as well as today, is that at WrestleMania XXIII they'll do Cena .VS. Undertaker, HBK .VS. Batista, Lashley .VS. Holly, and Edge .VS. Orton.

I still think they'll do Batista 'Taker. But I'm a little less sure now!

Cena/Taker and HBK/Batista sounds very good to me but I don't know about Edge/Orton. Having two heels lock up against one another can often lead to disinterest and the fans crapping all over it. Lashley vs Holly sounds terrible too. Holly has been in the WWE for years and has never really gotten over.

You get the feeling that they don't really know what to do. Such a contrast to previous years when they knew months in advance. I remember the Hell in the Cell in 2000 and the Royal Rumble in 2001 which teased Austin and Rock before they eventually delivered on it at WM17.

Minto

I think HBK should go to SmackDown!, it'd be good for SmackDown! and RAW, especially if he was traded for 'Taker. I'm just looking on the RAW superstars page, and there is nobody who could leave the RAW mid-card and be a believable main-eventer for 'Mania, nor should Orton or Edge go back to SmackDown!. HBK is probably the best option.

On a side note, does any one else think Val Venis is deserving of a good push, IC title or something. I'd love to see him with a World title, but I know it'll never happen or if Vince's mind changes maybe it will, lol!

Back on topic, looking at SmackDown!'s page, Mysterio as a heel could be good in the main event, cept he is injured or they could give Regal a well deserved World title run.

I know alot of what I said will prob never happen and is partially crap, but looking at the current WWE roster, theres not much they could do that would be better.

Vince135792003

I've already given the argument for Batista 'Taker. I'd actually be disappointed if they didn't go through with it (never thought I'd say that). The Kennedy Batista Undertaker triangle has been good lately and I've enjoyed it.

But to look at Cena Taker. The positive is that it is a marquee match that would interest a hell of a lot of people. The other positive is that it would be a better match than with Batista.

There is one negative I think. Cena is probably at the peak of his popularity. It took working a good year with Edge to virtually eradicate the booing. Everyone knows Wrestlemania attracts the hardcores and I have no doubt Cena would get booed out of the stadium in a match like this.

So why put Cena (your biggest babyface draw) in a programme that would undermine all the good work they did at getting him over to that position in the first place.


The other negative with that card is that you'd have 2 babyface versus babyface matches and one heel versus heel match. And the more you do something like that on a card, the less it gets over.

EDIT: Rey Mysterio as a heel? Never. He's the Ricky Steamboat of our generation. You don't turn guys like Rey heel. I like your Regal idea though for the long term post 'Mania.

Terry

Look at the backstage interviews with Edge and Orton on this weeks RAW. You have Edge being the arrogant cocky guy and Orton playing down the feud between them and dodging questions on it. I can see Orton attacking Edge and turning face.

Minto

I just think Mysterio's character is gone a bit stale tbh, he needs something to help him, maybe he should lose the mask? But he needs something....

I'm just thinking now how good would 'Taker Vs. Regal for the title be? I'd def pay good money for it anyway. Pity, it'll never happen....

Vince (Mc Mahon) if your reading this thread(about as likely as Regal winning the World title this year), take some notes!

Vince135792003

Minto wrote:

I just think Mysterio's character is gone a bit stale tbh, he needs something to help him, maybe he should lose the mask? But he needs something....

I know this is off topic. But the guy is gonna be gone for a long time which should add freshness to his character. Once he's back, the likelyhood is they'll switch him to Raw and he'll have a whole set of new opponents.

Minto

Maybe, I guess we'll just have to sit back and enjoy the ride!

Fozzy

First of all, that Rumble match was not Cena's best match ever. He had some great matches back in 2003 that I only remebered about last week. I think they showed a match of his from back then on SD last week. A brilliant match with Eddie sticks out in my mind. It's kind of confused me now, because he obviously does have a lot of talent when you look at those matches. The Rumble match wasn't great though. Everything Umaga went for, Cena either dodged or reversed it. Got very predictable halfway through

I do think Val Venis deserves a push, as he's a great wrestler. Stevie Richards is the same. But I think they're forever stuck in dark matches with young guys to help them learn

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

The Rumble match wasn't great though.

I d

I loved it and thought it was pretty dam great. I'm not gonna go into why because I mean everyone has their own opinion. I just thought it was thought it was really good.


Cena did have some good matches back in 2003 although again I would still argue he's gotten a lot better. I think the reason why was because in 2003 he played largely a heel (and he was good at it) and it took him quite a while maybe to adjust to being a good a guy.

Maybe its the same thing with Carlito. I remember his debut match with Cena as being really good. But as a babyface, he looks so inconsistent in the ring.

Fozzy

I think Cena is just a natural born heel now that I've looked back at some of those matches from 2003. I didn't like him when he first came in, but I was starting to become a fan back around that time. I seemed to have completely forgotten about it since he turned face again

That Rumble match though, like I said, it was just Umaga trying to do stuff and having Cena move out of the way. I couldn't get into it. I don't think Cena was at his best at getting the crowd into it either, I think he's usually better at that, even with matches much worse than this. The ending, when he first let Umaga out of the STFU, the crowd were pretty into it. Then they had to have Umaga get up and Cena do the STFU again, and the crowd kinda died a bit with that. The last man standing equivalent of someone winning after they re-pin an opponent who's just kicked out, anti-climactic

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

I think Cena is just a natural born heel now that I've looked back at some of those matches from 2003. I didn't like him when he first came in, but I was starting to become a fan back around that time. I seemed to have completely forgotten about it since he turned face again

That Rumble match though, like I said, it was just Umaga trying to do stuff and having Cena move out of the way. I couldn't get into it. I don't think Cena was at his best at getting the crowd into it either, I think he's usually better at that, even with matches much worse than this. The ending, when he first let Umaga out of the STFU, the crowd were pretty into it. Then they had to have Umaga get up and Cena do the STFU again, and the crowd kinda died a bit with that. The last man standing equivalent of someone winning after they re-pin an opponent who's just kicked out, anti-climactic

It was one STFU too many I agree. But I still loved it. I also think Umaga is alot better than people given credit for.

I loved the psychology of the match of Cena trying to survive the monster. It didn't turn into a total garbage match like alot of these do. They built the big spots well with most of it being in the ring. And most importantly, Cena gained from the win and Umaga lost nothing in losing. He's still a monster.

I'm a big fan of this ppv though with a few minor exceptions.

But each to their own.

Tricity Bendix

Fozzy wrote:

I do think Val Venis deserves a push, as he's a great wrestler. Stevie Richards is the same. But I think they're forever stuck in dark matches with young guys to help them learn

Hardcore Holly was in the same situation not too long ago.


BTW, the thought of Holly being in the ECW 'Mania main event is pretty cool, so long as he doesn't job to Lashley in 6 mins like he did to Brock at the Rumble.

Fozzy

Holly..I can't say I've ever liked him. I don't think he can pull good matches out of people. Val and Stevie can. The best CM Punk match I've seen so far in WWE was against Val on Heat 2 years ago, Val went out of his way to make Punk look real good. Maybe that's a problem of his though, he's better at making his opponents look good

Mr.Nice Guy

Fozzy wrote:

That Rumble match though, like I said, it was just Umaga trying to do stuff and having Cena move out of the way. I couldn't get into it. I don't think Cena was at his best at getting the crowd into it either, I think he's usually better at that, even with matches much worse than this.

Couldn't disagree more. The crowd popped huge every time he made a comeback against Umaga. I thought he sold his injuries very well, particularly the spot where he lifted Umaga up for the FU and then fell down and hit his head on the steel steps.

Fozzy wrote:

The ending, when he first let Umaga out of the STFU, the crowd were pretty into it. Then they had to have Umaga get up and Cena do the STFU again, and the crowd kinda died a bit with that. The last man standing equivalent of someone winning after they re-pin an opponent who's just kicked out, anti-climactic

I think that's being too critical. I felt the reason Umaga was let out of the original STFU was because Cena was literally choking him out and they didn't want him to fall unconscious for real. That made it gripping for me.

His best match from the 2003 heel period in my view was his match with Kurt Angle. I think it was No Mercy. That was brilliant. Since then the only match of his I've really enjoyed was his TLC match with Edge last year. The Rumble match though might be his greatest match yet in my opinion.

It reminded me of the classic match-ups with the babyface against the monster heel. Matches like Sting vs Vader in WCW. I loved it.

Fozzy

I'm not saying it was a bad match at all. And certainly not by recent Cena standards. Were there any times when Cena was down for an 8 or 9 count though? I only seem to remember Umaga being down all the time. He didn't come across as a monster heel to me, just a guy who kept missing moves. JR and Lawler seem to change their personas when Cena is on tv too, I found that mildly annoying after the decent way they called the tag match. Constantly asking "how did he do that?!" when Cena was doing stuff he can obviously do, like lift steps. I know it sounds like I just don't like anything Cena does now, but that's not the case! There were just a lot of bits about that match which I didn't enjoy, I'll leave it at that. I'm actually looking forward to seeing Cena at WM this year though, unlike last year. Just hope they don't mess it up and put him in something other than a one-on-one match


EDIT: The news on Holly is that he needs surgery on his elbow, because of some surgery that went a bit wrong before, and it may be career-threatening. And apparently Monty Brown will be the main heel in ECW if Holly does have to leave for some time....I'd prefer Holly to stay in that case

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote:

just a guy who kept missing moves.

But like the unstopable monster he kept getting back up. He lost nothing in defeat. But anyway you can view it in a few ways.

Gillie

Se7en wrote:

The Rock was one of the most over guys in wrestling. I dont see how you can say people didnt like it.

Was! That all changed when he faced Hogan! (Ironic!).
The fans turned on him.

The guy had a very limited moveset. Just like Cena.
But. He WAS/IS the best ever on the Mic!

nacho libre

--According to PWInsider, the current discussion for WrestleMania 23 is WWE Champion John Cena vs. Undertaker, Batista vs. HBK, Lashley vs. Holly, and Edge vs. Orton. This is not official and could change many times over the next few weeks.