Bought Vista Ultimate - big mistake!

KeRbDoG

Lemming wrote:

That's for an OEM licence. Which is all fine and well, but does carry certain restrictions. The full version is £350 (incl. Vat) which works out at roughly €520 according to xe.com

So the diff between that OEM and the retail one he bought is what?
Does OEM meana that you can just use that version of windows with the machine you register it with. If the machine dies, the license for the OEM of vista dies?

Stephen

Well, the operating system has been out (to OEMs and volume licence/MSDN customers) for 2 months already, just not at retail. Hence the patches.

Stephen

kerbdog wrote:

So the diff between that OEM and the retail one he bought is what?
Does OEM meana that you can just use that version of windows with the machine you register it with. If the machine dies, the license for the OEM of vista dies?

Pretty much, yes. OEM software is supposed to stay with the hardware it was purchased with, and only that hardware. They'll let you replace parts and so forth but if you change something major like a motherboard you'll probably have to activate it again and tell them a sob story.

Richard Dower

Let me clarify, OEM is *out* as the EULA of an OEM disc is very restrictive. You can only have a 32bit or 64bit DVD, Ultimate comes with both.

Home Premium only comes with 32bit and an option buy BUY a 64bit DVD for an addition charge payable to M$, they they don't tell you how much it will cost.

I needed retail as i need unlimited activations + the ability to change the motherboard as many times a si wanted, OEM does not allow for this.

Now, i could have got Home Premium retail for €279, but god knows what the 64bit DVD would cost...add to that i wanted the top end product, my issue is not really the price.

If i didn't want or have €550 to spend i wouldn't...my issue is the warranty period, which makes me think Home Premium would suits me better...considering the extra €€€ isin't getting me much more...M$ aren't persuading to hold on Ultimate.

ps. i can return the software, as long as the seal is unbroken + have receit + returned with 7 days.

cast_iron

CiaranC wrote:

Huh? Whos assuming? If you had a valid reason, you should have just pointed it out

Well the OP didn't point it out and you assumed.

KeRbDoG

http://www.lockergnome.com/nexus/blade/2007/01/29/vista-oem-available-for-system-builders-but-theres-a-catch/
Cool cheers for clearing up the OEM/Retail info.

aidan_walsh

Stephen wrote:

Pretty much, yes. OEM software is supposed to stay with the hardware it was purchased with, and only that hardware. They'll let you replace parts and so forth but if you change something major like a motherboard you'll probably have to activate it again and tell them a sob story.

I read something before on Neowin that Vista works on a points system, assaigning different types of hardware "reset points". Its starts at a default of something like 25, and when it hits below a certain level - which I recall reading to be motherboard-1 - it demands that you have to reactivate, and in theory buy a new license.

How accurate that is is anyones guess.

projectmayhem

Lord Oz wrote:

http://www.ubuntu.com/

djmarkus wrote:

www.opensuse.org, better OS and alot cheaper(i.e. FOC)

i think i'm going to start posting links to the microsoft site in linux threads, just to show how annoying it actually is. we know ubuntu and suse etc. exist, the thread isn't about those operating systems...

Beelzebub wrote:

Be reassured:
Vista Service Pack 1 is on the way. With many new features I do believe.
http://apcmag.com/5098/microsoft_kick_starts_vista_sp1.
And I imagine a great many bug fixes.

I will wait and watch with interest before even thinking of migrating to this new and unbelieveable piece of software engineering.

indeed. i was going to build a new PC for the new year but i'll get my PS3 instead, and get a new build in the summertime, when all the Vista stuff has calmed down and there's a properly operational operating system in place.

Richard Dower

Well i called M$ today about the activation issue and changing motherboards, they told me i can change the mobo (say Gigabyte to Asus et al) as many times as i wanted, though you've got a limited number of online activations, but unlimited by phone.

BostonB

Richard Dower wrote:

I paid a SHOCKING €549 in PC World today for Vista Ultimate retail, i didn't break the seal...only to discover on calling M$ that they only offer a 90 day warranty?????.....90 DAYS FOR FIVE HUNDREAD & FORTY NINE EURO! :eek:

90 days tech support on a brand new and buggy OS, there are already 26 patches listed on the MS website....90 days?, after that i have to PAY €75 PER incident/call.

How can this be ethical/legal?...is there not a standard one year warranty in the Euro zone?

I am disgusted by this and plan to return it software tomorrow, Windows XP Pro had a 5 year warranty.

Personally I've never ever used in MS support for anything. What exactly would you need their support for?

No one in their right mind would pay €549. That you did (if its true) would be more shocking than the price.

Biz reason. Get real.

Richard Dower

So would you pay €279 then?, i know it's a very high price, but since OEM is out the only other option is Home Premium...and then i have to send off for the 64bit DVD, which could cost god knows what.

djmarkus

projectmayhem wrote:

i think i'm going to start posting links to the microsoft site in linux threads, just to show how annoying it actually is. we know ubuntu and suse etc. exist, the thread isn't about those operating systems...



indeed. i was going to build a new PC for the new year but i'll get my PS3 instead, and get a new build in the summertime, when all the Vista stuff has calmed down and there's a properly operational operating system in place.

I think you'll find any of our posts arn't against the charter, post all about micro$oft in the unix forum if you want, thats your right.

mukki

BostonB wrote:

Personally I've never ever used in MS support for anything. What exactly would you need their support for?

No one in their right mind would pay €549. That you did (if its true) would be more shocking than the price.

Biz reason. Get real.

yeah what warrenty do you need, its not like your vista install disk is going break in 6 months time from general wear and tear


€549 is huge money

mickoneill30

djmarkus wrote:

I think you'll find any of our posts arn't against the charter, post all about micro$oft in the unix forum if you want, thats your right.

That's not the point. He was pointing out that it's thick. It's my right to do many thick things but most of us don't (or try not to) do them.

Stephen

djmarkus wrote:

I think you'll find any of our posts arn't against the charter, post all about micro$oft in the unix forum if you want, thats your right.

I think you'll find that they are.

Charter wrote:

No Off-Topic Advocacy: When someone asks a question about their current browser/mailer/etc, either answer the question or don't post. If they want an alternative, they'll ask for it. Off-topic advocacy will be sent to the Recycle Bin.

seamus

BostonB wrote:

Personally I've never ever used in MS support for anything. What exactly would you need their support for?

Well from time to time, Microsoft do release hotfixes and patches which they don't make available to the general public. These patches are for very specific software/compatibility problems, and so MS don't want people installing them willy-nilly. Usually they're distributed to volume licence customers when it's determined that they're needed, or people who pay €75 for a support call.

I can't recall a time when I personally ever needed to log a call with MS support. There has always been more than enough information available online to troubleshoot problems.

Although the information available online for Vista support won't be as plentiful as XP quite yet, there's still plenty out there. When I installed the Vista beta, any problems I had (the bootloader is one example), I could get sorted in a matter of Googling minutes.

I understand what you're saying Richard, but I don't see why you would require MS support past 90 days, unless you're a massive company installing Vista on critical systems. And in that case, you wouldn't be picking it up off the shelf in PC world.

thehomeofDob

Richard Dower wrote:

ps. i can return the software, as long as the seal is unbroken + have receit + returned with 7 days.

Yes - it's your legal right. On top of that, PC World have a 28 day exchange policy and a 7 day refund policy.

hshortt

What's the current cost of an MSDN subscription and would this have been a viable option for the OP?

MSDN allows download and use/activation on 10 PCs. Any version of Vista you like.

My company pays for my subscription, maybe you could talk to your employer?

Cheerio
Howard

iregk

Is the license agreement on the outside of the package? As if its not then you legally can open the package read and return it and still be entitled to a full refund. Keep in mind if the license agreement is in print inside the package the dvd itself may have a sticker saying if opened it means you agree with the license.

So basically as long as you dont open the dvd package you can return it, tell the store you read the license and dont agree with it. Legally you are entitled to a full refund. If they say we can't as the package is opened you just have to say well I had to open it to read the license to which I didn't agree.

mick.fr

Well for those working in IT as a freelance or employee, can register their company to be a Microsoft Partner (Free, well the basic one at least).

Then once you are a partner, you can order the Action Pack.

The Action Pack comprises all Microsoft medias and products (Exchange, Windows, ISA, Office...) and you have the right to use up to 10 (I think so) as well.
It costs 300 euros a year. So that's a great deal to get your hands on the latest Microsoft products without having to spend a fortune.

The pack is intended for IT Professionals/MS partners, not for the public, as you have to register your company with them.

MSDN is much more expensive, over 2000 euros, but provides developer resources.

mickoneill30

MSDN also only allows you to install the applications for development, test and demonstration purposes. If you're running them in prod you've got to buy them.
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/subscriptions/aa948864.aspx

cashman

Luck that Richard didnt install Vista and then try to go back to XP because that cannot be done just read this http://www.megagames.com/news/html/software/vistaupgradeirreversible.shtml

Richard Dower

Guys, here is my (near) horror story dealing with PC World in Limerick...i brought Ultimate back to the store and was told that they don't accept software back and i must speak to the manager.

As you might imagine i was rather angry, and my tone of voice and body language communicated that. I was told yesterday it would be OK to return software as long as it was unopened/had a receipt/returned within 7 days.

But according to the female manager this is not the case, so i got angry...i explained my reasons for returning it, in fact i had decided to exchange it for Vista Home Premium and get the €270 credited back to my Lasercard.

But then she said that it's not their policy due to copyright, i ask her to explain this, then she said i could have opened the box and copied the DVD....this was a blatant accusation of piracy.

I said straight out, are you accusing me of piracy?...her response was no, i never accused you of that. So that this stage i was thinking...right let's call the Gardai.

Then she says...if you don't change your attitude you definately will not get a refund (what?...i spent €549 + i get accused of piracy..and I have an attitude ?). So i calmed myself and said...if i was a pirate i must be the most stupid ever.

I paid with a Laser (a thief would have paid with cash), if i wanted to pirate why would i want to exchange the software for Home Premium?, then i says...if i copied the DVD then check with M$ to see the the product key had been activated.

She's on the phone to M$ for 20 minutes, she can't get through...she comes out and says ok i'll give you an excahnge + the refund of €270.

Can you belive that?...ok so i admit my body language and tone of voice was irrate and angry, but i could not belive what i was hearing from these people.

Add to that i asked her where on the receipt was their disclaimer that PC software could not be returned, also show me some documentation or code of practice for the store...she could not.

It seems to be a case by case (not written down policy) if you get the refund or not, and if you piss the female manager off you're sh*t outta luck.

Disgusted i am, least i got it in the end......

Endurance Man

What have we learnt kids, dont go to PC World, oh wait that was in last years syllabus .

mukki

glad you got it sorted

shop around for all your computer stuff in future, and wait till a few people have tested it, and see what they think

miju

Richard Dower wrote:

Guys, here is my (near) horror story dealing with PC World in Limerick...i brought Ultimate back to the store and was told that they don't accept software back and i must speak to the manager.

As you might imagine i was rather angry, and my tone of voice and body language communicated that. I was told yesterday it would be OK to return software as long as it was unopened/had a receipt/returned within 7 days.

But according to the female manager this is not the case, so i got angry...i explained my reasons for returning it, in fact i had decided to exchange it for Vista Home Premium and get the €270 credited back to my Lasercard.

But then she said that it's not their policy due to copyright, i ask her to explain this, then she said i could have opened the box and copied the DVD....this was a blatant accusation of piracy.

I said straight out, are you accusing me of piracy?...her response was no, i never accused you of that. So that this stage i was thinking...right let's call the Gardai.

Then she says...if you don't change your attitude you definately will not get a refund (what?...i spent €549 + i get accused of piracy..and I have an attitude ?). So i calmed myself and said...if i was a pirate i must be the most stupid ever.

I paid with a Laser (a thief would have paid with cash), if i wanted to pirate why would i want to exchange the software for Home Premium?, then i says...if i copied the DVD then check with M$ to see the the product key had been activated.

She's on the phone to M$ for 20 minutes, she can't get through...she comes out and says ok i'll give you an excahnge + the refund of €270.

Can you belive that?...ok so i admit my body language and tone of voice was irrate and angry, but i could not belive what i was hearing from these people.

Add to that i asked her where on the receipt was their disclaimer that PC software could not be returned, also show me some documentation or code of practice for the store...she could not.

It seems to be a case by case (not written down policy) if you get the refund or not, and if you piss the female manager off you're sh*t outta luck.

Disgusted i am, least i got it in the end......

eh you do realise that you were completely in the wrong here and that you weren't entitled to anything back if you simply change your mind or didnt like the support warranty ..... god people that i deal with like you irritate the hell out of me ...... consider yourself lucky you got a refund

Richard Dower

How is that now?...tell me how and why i was not entitled to a full refund even if i simply (lets say) didn't like the color of the box?

If it's unopened/have receipt/return within 7 days by PC Worlds onw policy i was entitled to it, Argos have a return policy the same.

If you buy a toaster and decided you don't want it they'll refund the money, as long as you didn't open the box.

And it's not like i wanted a full refund, i wanted a part refund/part exchange.

miju

either way doesn't matter , under consumer goods act shop pcan tell you to go and ****e if theres no fault

de man says so

You have no rights under consumer law if you simply change your mind about wanting the goods.

Richard Dower

"You have no rights under consumer law if you simply change your mind about wanting the goods. However, some shops will offer you an exchange as a gesture of goodwill
You should return faulty goods to the shop as soon as possible. If you wait for a long period it may appear that you have accepted the products, faults and all
The shop is entitled to proof of purchase, but this doesn't necessarily have to be the shop receipt. You could show the relevant credit card statement or any other documentation that proves it was purchased in that particular shop or retail chain"

WTF?...no right at all?, then what about individual store policy, such as what Argos have?

Why say i can return then withn 7 days?

Peteee

On the 64-bit issue, go here

It says they send you out the 64-bit media for a "You can order either of these alternate media for a minimal fee, including shipping and handling."

No idea how much this is.

Also, if he had wanted Linux he would have asked for it. Some people like having wireless networking out of the box!