Windows Vista prices.

SeanW

Hi everyone;

I have a self built computer which I started last May, and it presently runs WinXP Pro 32 bit.

I was going to stay away from Windows Vista, but with Komplett listing an OEM version of Vista Home Premium 64 bit for €98, I figure I may very well throw it in with my next partial rebuild which will probably be in about 6 months time.

€98 seems very cheap though, I'm not sure what's going on there, is the OEM discount that steep? It's good if so, but I can't help that feeling that I'm missing something. Especially considering that they're selling something similar for €309 ...

Details here:
http://www.komplett.ie/k/kl.asp?bn=10339

Why the difference in prices?

Also, when I migrate to Vista 64, I plan to continue using my 32 bit Windows XP in some form of dual-boot arrangment. The Windows NT line at least as far as XP has/had a very good system for setting up dual boots - I used an XP/NT set up for a while a few years ago. Will Windows Vista have good mutli-boot support too, or will it (the OEM edition in particular) throw up some problems?

kaisersose77

oem is all you need if you dont intend upgrading your motherboard and dont need support from MS. I Have xp and vista oem's dual booting atm. And it'll still work out cheaper to get another oem down the line if you make any major hardware change.

8T8

Don't migrate to the 64-bit version it requires signed drivers to run & it's going to be quite a while before such drivers are common place. The 32-bit version will work with unsigned drivers.

Like kaisersose77 says the OEM version is tied to the motherboard however in the event something happens and you replace the motherboard you can call Microsoft and they will re-activate it for you if you tell a little fib saying my mobo died & was replaced.

Of course with OEM versions MS retains the right to say no and close the door on such re-activations but they shown no sign of doing so and the word is they are pretty lenient about this & will continue to be.

Vista has a supposedly (have not looked at it myself yet) more complicated boot manager than XP in terms of interpreting it but there are some nice GUI's like EasyBCD or Vista Boot Pro that can alter all the settings for you without getting your hands dirty.

{There is a way round the driver signing by enabling a boot menu which boots Vista 64 in a mode that allows unsigned drivers via the boot loaders}

SeanW

Thanks for the clarification guys

Like I said, I won't be buying it for about 6 months maybe more when I update a few bits and pieces of hardware (Dual core processor, nicer case etc). So there should be time for most of my devices to have whatever drivers needed. nVidia in particlar should be reasonably on the ball in this regard.

I will be going for the 64 bit version because my processor is 64 bit and it seems a waste to be running it 32 all the time, should be some good software/patches for 64 bit OSes coming on stream soon - games like FarCry already have 64 bit conversion patches. But I'll be keeping a Win XP 32 installation for backward compatibility, 16-bit software and any hardware that I can't use in Vista.

My current mainboard kicks tail so I won't be changing that until it's time for a complete overhaul of the PC which won't be for at least a couple of years. So I'm not really worried about an OEM installation tying itself to the board.

8T8

Like I said in the other thread there is no deep well of untapped 64-bit performance in your 64-bit CPU. Going 64-bit will net you next to nothing for the average user, games don't benefit the Farcry thing was b@llocks I played the hacked 64-bit content on a 32-bit machine.

There is no "waste" from running in 32-bit mode, if on the other hand you run lots of scientific or professional apps with demands for obscene amounts of memory Vista 64 might be useful to you but other than that you are only making life difficult for yourself.

Even in best case scenario if someone goes to the trouble of lots of optimizing for a 64-bit app like a game (& they won't) you will probably only net a 3-5% improvement.

I really wish it weren't the case but Microsoft have dropped the ball again when it comes to 64 bit support & encouraging platform adoption.

Johnny Bitte

sorry to change the subject slightly but I got Windows XP Home OEM for my da's pc last year so he would stop breaking it so from what i gather that version of MS Home cant be transferred to another pc in the future?
Well not ment to be....

Creamy Goodness

legally speaking, OEM is stuck to the pc - you may want to read up on microsoft definition of a pc - that it is installed on at first.

nesf

8T8 wrote:

There is no "waste" from running in 32-bit mode, if on the other hand you run lots of scientific or professional apps with demands for obscene amounts of memory Vista 64 might be useful to you but other than that you are only making life difficult for yourself.

Or anything that does a lot of number crunching (encoding, ripping, rendering etc). There are advantages to 64bit, but people get confused as to what difference it makes. For games etc you don't need to look further than your graphics card, though this looks to be changing with the spread of multiple core processors (Steam etc).

8T8

nesf wrote:

Or anything that does a lot of number crunching (encoding, ripping, rendering etc). There are advantages to 64bit, but people get confused as to what difference it makes. For games etc you don't need to look further than your graphics card, though this looks to be changing with the spread of multiple core processors (Steam etc).

True some of those items like compression and encoding do benefit from 64-bit but not in a substantial enough way to sway you away from 32-bit.

At the moment application & driver support for 64-bit is extremely poor & Vista 64 doesn't help with it's driver signing requirement so it is going to be a quite a long time before 64-bit is practical for the average user.

On a side note the reason it requires signing is because MS thinks this is the best way to ensure platform stability with bad drivers being the number one cause of crashes in XP they think this will give the 64-bit platform a leg up but it is also a serious hindrance to it's adoption in the home user space.

nesf

8T8 wrote:

At the moment application & driver support for 64-bit is extremely poor & Vista 64 doesn't help with it's driver signing requirement so it is going to be a quite a long time before 64-bit is practical for the average user.

On a side note the reason it requires signing is because MS thinks this is the best way to ensure platform stability with bad drivers being the number one cause of crashes in XP they think this will give the 64-bit platform a leg up but it is also a serious hindrance to it's adoption in the home user space.

I'd imagine that driver signing is another failsafe to protect users from themselves. It would be nice if it was possible to turn off.

But yeah, for most people it's not really going to be that practical a change, it's poorly supported anyways (64-bit linux is not a happy beast atm). I do think that people confuse numbers becoming bigger with a substantial improvement in performance.

8T8

You can disable the driver signing by booting into a mode that permits unsigned drivers however you must press F8 every time at startup so it is not very convenient.

They only usable workaround is to use a boot manager like EasyBCD this creates a boot entry for unsigned Vista 64 which you can set as the default boot option so it loads every time.

There is of course another train of thought that the driver signing is another element of control taken away but I'm not so sure as the protected video path for DRM video on Vista has already been compromised which required signed drivers so it doesn't seem all that effective.

nesf

8T8 wrote:

You can disable the driver signing by booting into a mode that permits unsigned drivers however you must press F8 every time at startup so it is not very convenient.

They only usable workaround is to use a boot manager like EasyBCD this creates a boot entry for unsigned Vista 64 which you can set as the default boot option so it loads every time.

Cheers, I remember that if I ever get around to messing with Vista. Atm, I haven't managed to summon the energy to get around to it. I can't see myself changing over for another 6-12 months anyways until they've ironed out most of the bugs and the software I use for work has been upgraded and fixed. (i.e. Sage aren't planning on patching the present version of Line 50/Instant accounts for Vista so when I switch to Vista I'll have to buy whatever new vista ready version they come up with. )

8T8 wrote:

There is of course another train of thought that the driver signing is another element of control taken away but I'm not so sure as the protected video path for DRM video on Vista has already been compromised which required signed drivers so it doesn't seem all that effective.

When I heard about it I thought that it was an attempt at taking control away from users. I thought that it could create trouble for people with more exotic/unusual hardware though, i.e. stuff where the company no longer exists.

requiem1

quick question will the majority of pre-made computers i.e dell ship with 64 or 32 bit vista?
I'm building two pcs at the moment and want to put 64 bit on both of them but i'm really worried about this driver issue. would it be safe to say that the majority of peripherals don't have 64 bit support for vista? cause i don't want to build tham only to find out that the dvd drive isn't supported.

Also will all my previous 32 bit application run on vista 64 bit or will it only take 64 bit programmed applications?

Richard Dower

They will ship with 32bit, 64bit has compability issues still. I'm using 32bit for now until say SP1 for 64bit, by then driver support will be better.

kaisersose77

What advantage does 64bit have to the normal user?


all i see is posts on various forums (overclockers in particular) from ppl who have it trying to justify it, saying all you'll be fecked with 32bit down the line. And then the same ppl saying "so and so wont work, where are the 64bit drivers?????"