Pit Bulls are less likely to bite

EGAR

NIAMH HORAN

CUDDLY family pets such as Golden Retrievers and Cocker Spaniels are more likely to bite people than "vicious" dogs such as Pit bulls, according to new research into aggressive behaviour in dogs.

Although the research is not complete, Edmond O'Sullivan, a veterinary inspector with Cork County Council, has debunked some of the myths about vicious dogs.

His study, the first of its kind in Ireland, has also warned that dog owning is turning into a legal minefield.

The preliminary research found that "restricted breeds" such as the Staffordshire Pit Bull are not more likely to bite than non-restricted breeds.

It is the damage that a dog can do and not the likelihood that it could attack, which is central to a dog's restricted status, he explained.

"The idea of saying a breed is dangerous is neither here nor there. The reason certain breeds are restricted is not because they are more likely to bite but because, if they do attack, they are more likely to kill you.

"For example one of the restricted breeds, the Staffordshire bull terrier, on the basis of our results, was one of the five breeds that were least likely to bite."

The five breeds he cited as being most likely to attack are the Golden Retriever, Labrador, German Shepherd, Rottweiler and Cocker Spaniel.

Mr O'Sullivan is now calling calling for the compulsory micro-chipping of all dogs in Ireland because of the significantly low rate of owner prosecutions.Speaking before the findings of his project were due to be released, he said the entire area of dog owner responsibility had turned into a legal minefield.

"Micro-chipping of all dogs or even just restricted breeds is an absolute must. We have an absolute nightmare trying to enforce legislation here because owners can argue so easily that the dog isn't theirs. It's been a legal nightmare for us and there have been very few prosecutions in Ireland as a result."

The research, which took into account 100 dogs that had been previously involved in a biting incident, focused on both their past behaviour and the event itself.

With the data collected, O'Sullivan was able to find characteristic links between the dogs that had no history of previous aggressive behaviour and the dogs that had.

Preliminary findings suggested that adult dogs, which had been fully house trained, began to have house wetting accidents a certain period before the attack took place.

The project, which is due out in the next few weeks, was jointly undertaken by the Cork County Council veterinary department and the faculty of veterinary medicine at UCD. The aim of the scheme is to put together an education package which will teach how to prevent aggressive behaviour and biting by dogs.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1764840&issue_id=15181

Heinrich

What is your opinion on this?

How does this help the child with the damaged leg?

lightening

I think it makes interesting reading, the hysteria about these dogs is a little overhyped to be honest. I lived in the inner city for a long time. All my neighbours had staffs. I even ended up with one for a few months. They were out on the street playing with the kids and in and out of neighbours houses. I thought they were great little dogs. I moved to the burbs and got bitten by my new neighbours king charles!

grahamo

Dangerous dog breeds should be banned. End of story. Dog owners were given a chance to prove they were responsible pet owners last time there was uproar over these dog attacks. Laws were brought in stating dangerous dogs should be muzzled when in public. How many dangerous dog owners muzzle their dogs? Not many.The people who flout this law should be banned from owning dogs.

Saruman

As the article states.... You are more likely to get bitten by another family type dog! I would put the poodle forward as being the most likely to bite a person.. however all the bite will do is piss me off and make me want to do some animal cruelty!!
If a staff or a pit bull bites though... It might not let go until its dead!

EGAR

Heinrich, no it doesn't, neither does it help me, having been mauled by a yellow lab a few years back, requiring over 40 stitches and a stay in hospital but that never made the news as there wasn't Bull Breed involved .

GrahamO, there are no dangerous dog, just dangerous and/or irresponsible owners. The law needs to be enforced and harsh sentences meted out. The only way to change something is by hitting them where it hurts. I have had APBT and other Bull Breeds for over 20 years. I rescue BB's and never once have I been attacked by one.

Punish the deed, not the breed. There are thousands of responsible Bull Breed owners to whom a ban would mean the death of their beloved companion dog.

Kathy_BBBA

Dangerous dog breeds should be banned. End of story. Dog owners were given a chance to prove they were responsible pet owners last time there was uproar over these dog attacks. Laws were brought in stating dangerous dogs should be muzzled when in public. How many dangerous dog owners muzzle their dogs? Not many.The people who flout this law should be banned from owning dogs.

Dangerous humans should be banned from having any dogs or kids for that matter. The laws should be implemented, people who do not keep the laws of the land should be impounded - retrained and then microchipped.

Danes

I stand to be corrected on this but I think ABPTs ARE banned in the UK and a lot of good it does there. All it does is drive unscrupulous breeders underground and add to the problems caused by badly bred and unsocialised dogs.

If APBTs are banned in this country, what next? All Bull breeds? GSDs? Retrievers? Collies? Dogs in general?

There will always be poor owners and they will always find a dog to suit their needs whether that's a bull breed or not.

Nala

The most aggressive dog I ever knew was a Golden Cocker Spaniel, he was nasty. He wasn't trained and the owner's idea of telling him right from wrong was "No!!!" in a HAPPY voice- she would not listen when I told her they listen to the tone of your voice. I have also been snapped at by a different Cocker Spaniel, a Jack Russell, and a Labrador/Collie mix. You won't see "COCKER SPANIEL ATTACKS GIRL" in the papers because it's not sensational enough.

cowzerp

i have a rotty and he is well socialised and a big pet!! but guarding is in there nature and if some **** gets in my back thats there mistake-my dog would never bite for the sake of it. pitbulls are probably the most human friendly dogs going and are vilified over isolated incidents..

peasant

Although the research is not complete, Edmond O'Sullivan, a veterinary inspector with Cork County Council, has debunked some of the myths about vicious dogs

It is very encouraging to see that some official body is actually doing scientific research into the subject, rather than just pander to mass hysteria.

Tabitharose

cowzerp wrote:

pitbulls ...... are vilified over isolated incidents..

very true :mad:

deaddonkey

grahamo wrote:

Dangerous dog breeds should be banned. End of story. Dog owners were given a chance to prove they were responsible pet owners last time there was uproar over these dog attacks. Laws were brought in stating dangerous dogs should be muzzled when in public. How many dangerous dog owners muzzle their dogs? Not many.The people who flout this law should be banned from owning dogs.

People who work on knee jerk reactions after reading the papers shouldn't be in public unsupervised, and certainly not without a lead and muzzle

that study is bullpoop. 100 dogs and you're calling that a scientific study?

pffft.

I'm still not muzzling my german shepherd or keeping her on a lead if i don't need to. other people's fears are not my responsiblity.

my dog is not aggressive or bad tempered. End of. (if someone acts threateningly towards me, that's a different story)

"dangerous dogs" is BS. There's no dangerous breeds, and hell will freeze over before i control my dogs differently at the request of a bunch of overpaid polticians.

lisajane

Iv got a staff. Im sick of people telling me she's viscious. But they never had the guts to pet her and find out for themselves how frienly she is. They keep comparing her to the pit bull. But they're different breeds. She's far from viscious. She's more of a friendly coward.

Danes

Hmmm - I do think that those of us who own bull breeds or large dogs have to be extra careful to be seen to be in control of them in public. Its all vey well to say other peoples fears are not our problem but these dogs get enough bad press without us adding to it. I own two Great Danes who are never loose in public places. They are both sweet natured and have never shown any aggression but I cant expect other people to know that. I dont think anyone can give a cast iron guarantee that their dog will never bite under any circumstances - a provoked dog who bites from fear or pain is still at fault so I'm not about to put my dogs in a situation where their lives may be at risk.

Nala

Danes wrote:

a provoked dog who bites from fear or pain is still at fault.

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. An animal cannot be blamed for biting through fear or pain. They have a right to defend themselves if they feel they need to.

EGAR

DeadDonkey, I hate to disagree with you but it is law in this country to have certain breeds muzzled and leashed and the GSD is on that list .

peasant

Nala wrote:

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. An animal cannot be blamed for biting through fear or pain. They have a right to defend themselves if they feel they need to.

True ...but you try and argue that point when the tabloid press is screaming for kill, with pictures of the "mauled" or "savaged" "victim" all over the front page.

Nobody wants to know that the dog was poked in the eye with a stick (for example) before the "victim" was bitten ...all they want to see is a dead dog.

EGAR

In the Uk the media frenzy has taken hold and dogs are being stabbed, shot and poisoned nearly every day. Peeps are too frightened to walk their dogs and alot of Bull Breed owners walk their dogs at night :mad: .

We need to nip this in the butt before we have a situation like that over here.

peasant

Bud, Egar ...bud


But you're right ...and that's why I'm so thrilled about the report you mentioned in your OP.

That veterinary man sounds level-headed enough. I just hope that his report gets out before the frenzy gets over here and that a sensible and meaningful discussion can take place.

EGAR

Pfffft, I don't drink beer .

EGAR

Has it started?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6318869.stm

deaddonkey

EGAR wrote:

DeadDonkey, I hate to disagree with you but it is law in this country to have certain breeds muzzled and leashed and the GSD is on that list .

I don't give 2 hoots what the law says - i'm not changing my dog's right to be a dog by making her wear a muzzle, which stops her barking, picking things up, eating and drinking, and keeping her on a lead to stop her running and chasing sticks/balls/children, all of which are things a dog is meant to do (:D ). To hell with the law, my dog isn't going to hurt anyone, and i'm not condemning her to a life like that with breed specific legislation, she hasn't done anything wrong.
I will have time for the law when the law has time for me. I don't care if that's illegal, I really and truely don't, my dog is a rescue and has been given a second chance at life, and i am not restricting her second life like that.

If anyone wants to challenge me about it, bring it on. my dog isn't dangerous and i am not going to give in to anyone who thinks her quality of life should be changed because of her breed. she hasn't done anything wrong, and she won't, because she's a well socialised, well trained dog. I don't say we should keep all muslims/black people on leads because they may be dangerous, and I don't do it for dogs.

deaddonkey

EGAR wrote:

Has it started?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6318869.stm

y'see

these are the same people who say I have no respect for the law because my friendly dog isn't muzzled.

Who has less respect for the law, someone who supervises his dogs when they're out for walks, or someone who beats a dog to death, vigilante style?

I'm not changing a thing about how I walk my dogs. I don't give a poopie what the law says, my dog's quality of life is not going to be compromised to pander to the affections of other people. It's not my fault other people are frightened of my dog's breed.

Stark

I just saw that article. Made me sick to my stomach.

Nala

deaddonkey wrote:

I don't give 2 hoots what the law says - i'm not changing my dog's right to be a dog by making her wear a muzzle, which stops her barking, picking things up, eating and drinking, and keeping her on a lead to stop her running and chasing sticks/balls/children, all of which are things a dog is meant to do (:D ). To hell with the law, my dog isn't going to hurt anyone, and i'm not condemning her to a life like that with breed specific legislation, she hasn't done anything wrong.
I will have time for the law when the law has time for me. I don't care if that's illegal, I really and truely don't, my dog is a rescue and has been given a second chance at life, and i am not restricting her second life like that.

If anyone wants to challenge me about it, bring it on. my dog isn't dangerous and i am not going to give in to anyone who thinks her quality of life should be changed because of her breed. she hasn't done anything wrong, and she won't, because she's a well socialised, well trained dog. I don't say we should keep all muslims/black people on leads because they may be dangerous, and I don't do it for dogs.

The law says that ALL dogs should be on a lead when in a public place. My cat would still be alive if the owner of the dog that ran into our garden and killed her had done what the law says. He said "My dog isn't dangerous" and "my dog would not attack another animal", until eventually he admitted it was his dog. Your dog hasn't done anything wrong now, what does she have to do before you'll put her on a lead? It took the death of a pet I'd had for 11 years to make the owner of the dog that killed her cop onto himself.

deaddonkey wrote:

she hasn't done anything wrong, and she won't

How do you know this?

deaddonkey wrote:

because she's a well socialised, well trained dog.

So because of this you'd trust her 100%? Any and all animals can be unpredictable. It doesn't matter how well trained an animal is, they can revert to their natural instincts very quickly.

fits

In fairness deaddonkey was referring more to muzzling than to being on a lead. I'd agree with her, there's absolutely no reason why she should have to muzzle her well-behaved GSD.

The law states that dogs have to be 'under control' in public places, not on a lead. The dog that attacked and killed your cat obviously wasnt, and should have been on a lead.

Sorry to hear about your cat by the way, it must have been horrible. I have two lurchers and three of my neighbours keep cats. I really have to be careful with said cats, as I'd hate for something to happen. I still let them off the lead, away from my house, as if they couldnt run, and sniff and be doggies the most joyous thing to them would be taken away.

Wotzit

I rarely post an opinion (mostly lurk about but get some great advice on pet care all the same) but I just couldn't let this go.

For the past few weeks the news has been scattered with such incidents involving this breed and all they're doing is making this breed more desirable to the 'undesirable' - yes I'm talking about the gangs of young teenagers who seem to think that this breed is now the newest and most coolest fashion accessory and jesus they haven't got a breeze how to handle the dog! I laugh everytime I see one them being dragged down the road by this powerful dog...I know many people who have staffs and I've never felt uncomfortable around them, I know their owners are responsible and know how to control their dog if necessary.

Unfortunately the reality is, we're being faced with a media onslaught that will result in many innocent dogs being destroyed. Its a damn shame.

deaddonkey

Nala wrote:

The law says that ALL dogs should be on a lead when in a public place.

no it doesn't. Don't write about what you don't know.

Nala wrote:

How do you know this?

because I have confidence in my ability to train and socialise my dog.

So because of this you'd trust her 100%?

No, which is why I wrote that I only keep her off lead if I know I can't control her without it. If there's dogs she doesn't know in sight, or i know there's cats about, she walks to heel/lead, because I know she may not be predictable. But I'm damned if i'm going to let anyone tell me how to walk my dogs. And if another dog is off lead and growls at my dog, I don't have a problem with that in the slightest, because it's normal doggy behaviour to want to check out other dogs and see who the top dog is between them.

Mags does not need a muzzle to go for walks. End of.

Dave!

grahamo wrote:

Dangerous dog breeds should be banned. End of story. Dog owners were given a chance to prove they were responsible pet owners last time there was uproar over these dog attacks. Laws were brought in stating dangerous dogs should be muzzled when in public. How many dangerous dog owners muzzle their dogs? Not many.The people who flout this law should be banned from owning dogs.

How about you complain about the Gardaí for not enforcing the legislation set out in the Control of Dogs Act. I've never seen anybody be reprimanded for not having a muzzle of their dog.

Danes

Sorry Nala, I should have been clearer - I meant that a provoked dog who bites through pain or fear will be treated as an aggressive dog and possibly PTS. If such a dog ends up in rescue they cant be re-homed. A bite is a bite regardless of how it happens. You cant argue that a dog has the right to defend itself and so attack a two year old child who pokes it in the eye or pulls its tail. All you can do is prevent your dog getting in that situation in the first place.