Tiger Kidnapping

stepbar

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0201/swords.html

It worries me to think how easy it could be done. I work in BOI and TBH anybody in the branch could be a potential target. And the problem is that there is no simple answer to the problem either. Branch staff are very exposed to these types of incidents. I wonder can ANYTHING be done to combat the uprise in Tiger Kidnappings?

biko

Stop overcharging your customers is a start.

stepbar

biko wrote:

Stop overcharging your customers is a start.

Wot? Stick to the topic will ya. :rolleyes:

Dave!

Unless you're a manager or someone with alot of security clearance, I doubt you have anything to worry about to be honest. No point in kidnapping the cleaner if they can't give you access to the safe.

InFront

stepbar wrote:

I wonder can ANYTHING be done to combat the uprise in Tiger Kidnappings?

I don't know, but I thought McDowell's 'stern words' to the financial institutions were comical. The Minister for Justice complaining that financial institutions were allowing these crimes to happen. How typically... PD

CLADA

(1) Some kind of mobile personal panic alarm linked to a monitoring company. i'm sure in this day and age such things exist.

(2) Security protocols preventing withdrawal of cash by individual employees.

Two to think about.

stepbar

Its hard to know, I mean if you were a manager and one of your lower level staff was implicated in such a suitation, I think you would give them the access.

And its not only the banks, in the last few weeks there has been 4 seperate incidents. Its getting out of hand TBH

biko

Afaik this is not uncommon on the continent. Does anyone know how they have tried to solve it over there?

MooseJam

One way to fight the rise in tiger kidnappings would be to charge the bank personnel who walk out of the banks with all the money with theft and lock them up for 10 or 15 years, why haven't any of these people been charged, if they knew they were going to face a lenghty sentence they would inform the guards as they should do rather than playing along with the kidnappers

InFront

MooseJam wrote:

rather than playing along with the kidnappers

Yeah because they play along, like just for fun.



Would you go to jail or give your husband/ wife a bullet?
There's your answer.

ballooba

The gardai did well today.

Hopefully this will deter other scumbags.

Futureman

Am I missing something? What the f*ck has a tiger got to do with a bank kidnapping?????

Ruu_Old

Never heard of it meself. I was expecting some story fro Dublin Zoo or somesuch. From Wiki.

Tiger kidnapping is taking an innocent hostage to make a loved one or associate of the victim do something, e.g. a child is taken hostage to force the shopkeeper to open the safe; the term originates from the usually long preceding observation, like a tiger does on the prowl.

MooseJam

InFront wrote:

Yeah because they play along, like just for fun.



Would you go to jail or give your husband/ wife a bullet?
There's your answer.

I'd call the guards and let them deal with the situation not rob a bank like these people do, they should be prosecuted, there is no excuse.

InFront

Someone is holding a gun to a member of your family and you're going to walk casually to the phone and call the guards?

Right and then you'd probably go and do the shopping while they clean up the mess, yeah? Yeah that's tough.

ballooba

MooseJam wrote:

I'd call the guards and let them deal with the situation not rob a bank like these people do, they should be prosecuted, there is no excuse.

Are you insane? Do you have family?

The bank's money is no where near as important as a person's life.

MooseJam

ballooba wrote:

Are you insane? Do you have family?

The bank's money is no where near as important as a person's life.

you're implying that going along with these scumbags is the right thing to do, why don't any of these people just call the guards, it's not that hard a concept to understand, if they called the guards then there would be a lot less of these kidnappings.

InFront

No there wouldn't, there'd be the one idiot who called the guards and his dead relative, and then there'd be the smart victims with husbands and wives getting back to normal.

This is a job for the minister for justice and the gardai, it's not up to victims to police gangland.

Would you expect a staff member of a bank to allow himself to be shot instead of handing over money in an armed robbery?
What about a girl behind a counter in a shop?

ballooba

MooseJam wrote:

you're implying that going along with these scumbags is the right thing to do, why don't any of these people just call the guards, it's not that hard a concept to understand, if they called the guards then there would be a lot less of these kidnappings.

And their families would most likely get slapped around, maimed or killed.

What do you envisage would happen once the victim calls the police?

Bear in mind that the livelihood of the kidnappers depends on fear and the continuance of this practice.

MooseJam

InFront wrote:

This is a job for the minister for justice and the gardai, it's not up to victims to police gangland.

exactly its a job for the guards, calling the guards does not make you an idiot,

scenario ... bank worker goes to the bank as requested and while there calls the guards and says armed gang are in my house, said house gets surrounded by the guards and gang give up or get shot dead. This might give the criminals planning the next raid second thoughts.

InFront

MooseJam wrote:

scenario ... bank worker goes to the bank as requested and while there calls the guards and says armed gang are in my house, said house gets surrounded by the guards and

hostage gets shot

MooseJam wrote:

This might give the criminals planning the next raid second thoughts.

And the guy who called the guards as well.

MooseJam

InFront wrote:

hostage gets shot

yeah the kidnappers are just going to start popping caps, it'd be just like the movies

:rolleyes:

Lorax

MooseJam wrote:

exactly its a job for the guards, calling the guards does not make you an idiot,

scenario ... bank worker goes to the bank as requested and while there calls the guards and says armed gang are in my house, said house gets surrounded by the guards and gang give up or get shot dead. This might give the criminals planning the next raid second thoughts.

lol your gas, do you think the kidnappers just let the family wander about the house while all this is going on? they more than likely have guns to their heads ordering them around.. so your chances of making a phone call are slim to be honest.. never mind putting your son/daughters/girlfriends/wifes life at risk by doing so aswell..

Having said that, Kudos to u if u are willing to die, or have your children shot dead to teach these bowsies a lesson. Someone needs to stand up to them :rolleyes:

MooseJam

Lorax wrote:

lol your gas, do you think the kidnappers just let the family wander about the house while all this is going on? they more than likely have guns to their heads ordering them around.. so your chances of making a phone call are slim to be honest.. never mind putting your son/daughters/girlfriends/wifes life at risk by doing so aswell..

the bank worker has to go to the bank to get the money out, he could call from the bank

Lorax

MooseJam wrote:

the bank worker has to go to the bank to get the money out, he could call from the bank

If u would play dice with the lives of your children then thats your business, personally I wouldnt call their bluff as to whether they'd actually shoot or not.

Dave!

MooseJam, your intelligence is showing....

spanner

home security will need to be beefed up especially people in high risk catorgies. not just spending money on alarms but changing the Attitude in security. With all the crime at the moment people are still very lax to security, leaving the door open, not turning on the alarm etc

Hagar

DaveMcG wrote:

No point in kidnapping the cleaner if they can't give you access to the safe.

Fair point. In my experience though only a very select few people in any company had access to every single room in the building, usually the most Senior Manager, his/her PA and the cleaner. So from the point of view of gathering intelligence for a future robbery the cleaner is a definitely at risk.

The Hill Billy

Futureman wrote:

Am I missing something? What the f*ck has a tiger got to do with a bank kidnapping?????

These type of kidnappings have been termed "tiger" due to the predatory nature of the crims involved. They obviously stalk their prey for some time before the attack to determine their movements, etc.

DaveMcG wrote:

MooseJam, your intelligence is showing....

Dave, really! You know as well as I that even the most experienced Tiger Kidnapper would have trouble tracking down intelligence in those posts.

lol, moosejam's posts have me sitting here crying from laughing, that's hilarious

I duno what can be done about it... I was wondering why people would kidnap tigers til ruu's post...

humanji

MooseJam wrote:

yeah the kidnappers are just going to start popping caps, it'd be just like the movies

:rolleyes:

Do you honestly think that once the police surround the house that everything will turn out fine? The kidnappers will be backed into a corner and get desperate, and that's when people can get killed.

NeiloMac

Maybe when the dude is in the bank, they can be called and only when the money and family are safe do they move in, but really its not your money and its insured anyway,

ballooba

NeiloMac wrote:

Maybe when the dude is in the bank, they can be called and only when the money and family are safe do they move in, but really its not your money and its insured anyway,

That is EXACTLY what happened yesterday. Pretty much to a T.

The only difference was that MooseJam's theory relied on the victim knowing where his family was. The family are kept at a secret location, in this case 10-15 miles north of the man's home, while the cash drop-off was 10-15 miles south of his home.

Only when the family were located did the Gardai act. As I said, fair play to the Gardai, they did well.

As for MooseJam, potential there in the future for a Darwin Award.:rolleyes:

Agamemnon

Ruu wrote:

Never heard of it meself. I was expecting some story fro Dublin Zoo or somesuch. From Wiki.

Tiger kidnapping is taking an innocent hostage to make a loved one or associate of the victim do something, e.g. a child is taken hostage to force the shopkeeper to open the safe; the term originates from the usually long preceding observation, like a tiger does on the prowl.

Aha! I thought it was a reference to the Celtic Tiger, what with these types of robberies becoming more frequent in recent years.

Moosejam, I can't believe some of the things you're posting. No-one in their right mind would put the lives of their family in peril to save their employer's money.

muletide

MooseJam wrote:

exactly its a job for the guards, calling the guards does not make you an idiot,

scenario ... bank worker goes to the bank as requested and while there calls the guards and says armed gang are in my house, said house gets surrounded by the guards and gang give up or get shot dead. This might give the criminals planning the next raid second thoughts.

Mr. Jam you obviously know very little about the Modus Operandi of these guys. They dont normally sit in the manager or bank workers house waiting for the money. Normally the family members are taken somewhere remote or to a derelict building and kept there. So informing the Gardai will do very little to save your unfortunate family members and will not help in catching the crims. The only solution is increased security for bank workers but even at that you cant protect everyone 24-7

Or else some brave manager could try the Mel Gibson trick from Hostage and offer the money to whoever kills the kidnappers.

ScumLord

Fair play to the guards for catching them, however they did it?

I'd say there's only a few gangs in the country that could pull these off. I wouldn't call the cops all they want is the cash I wouldn't risk my family for any amount of money, especially considering the gangs can send someone else to kill them reguardless of weather or not the guys carrying out the kidnapping get caught.

slipss

ballooba wrote:

The gardai did well today.

Hopefully this will deter other scumbags.

Hopefully what will deter other scumbags? Maybe some of you have other information but going on the link posted the gardai did not foil the robbery or catch anyone red handed, they didn't recover the money or any weapons. As far as I can see all they have done is lift suspects for questioning and their cars for forensic examination. Unless the people they lifted are complete amatuers they will tourched the cars they used for transporting the family, not used there own cars and will either no comment their way through interegation or stare blankly at a spot on the wall and say nothing. Again going solely on the information in that link I wouldn't be surprised at all if the suspects are released without charge after the maximum time they can be held.

brianthebard

Was BOI keeping a tiger in the vault? Do they appreciate in value at a better rate than the normal rate of a current account?

MooseJam

muletide wrote:

Mr. Jam you obviously know very little about the Modus Operandi of these guys. They dont normally sit in the manager or bank workers house waiting for the money. Normally the family members are taken somewhere remote or to a derelict building and kept there. So informing the Gardai will do very little to save your unfortunate family members and will not help in catching the crims. The only solution is increased security for bank workers but even at that you cant protect everyone 24-7

Or else some brave manager could try the Mel Gibson trick from Hostage and offer the money to whoever kills the kidnappers.

Thanks for putting me right muletide, I don't know why everyone thinks im an idiot, it's the bank staff handing over the money without calling the guards that has them marked as soft targets, the guards should be informed as soon as possible and then the money and the gang can be tracked and if the family are found then they can move against the gang, maybe thats what happened in this case. If this is done then these gangs will be cought, it's actually very very easy to catch these people, just call the guards and follow the money. If they just hand over the money they are setting up the next family to be held hostage.

Rb

Christ Moosejam, thats some of the most stupid shít I've read on Boards in a while. Well done sir, just when I think I've seen it all, you go and set the bar that one bit higher.

Tiger Raids, or any other form of robbery, is absolutely nothing to worry about. Sure enough they're an absolutely horrible experience, particularly in the cases of Tiger Raids or other such personal raids (i.e the criminals approach 1/2 members of staff, rather than wandering in and holding the whole place up), but the victims just have to realise that
a: Your life and your families is the most important thing, the bank/business will not give two f*cks about the money as every cent of it is insured
b: You owe the company/business/employer absolutely nothing
c: Co-operate with the criminals and you'll be absolutely fine.

If I was held at gunpoint, or any member of my family were, I'd do absolutely everything the captors told me to do. Similarly, if the place I work in was held up, I'd help the gunmen/raiders in any way possible, direct them to every bit of cash so as to save my own skin and get the whole thing over and done with as quickly as possible.

And Moosejam thinks that would warrant me being arrested and charged with theft?!LOL, I hope your house is broken into and your whole family is held at gunpoint, then we'll see how brave you are and how willing you are to go against the peoples orders. Idiot.

Matthewthebig

Yeah these crimes are bad yada yada...

But Dear Lord the use of the term Tiger makes them seem ****ing retarded

2c

Rb

MooseJam wrote:

Thanks for putting me right muletide, I don't know why everyone thinks im an idiot, it's the bank staff handing over the money without calling the guards that has them marked as soft targets, the guards should be informed as soon as possible and then the money and the gang can be tracked and if the family are found then they can move against the gang, maybe thats what happened in this case. If this is done then these gangs will be cought, it's actually very very easy to catch these people, just call the guards and follow the money. If they just hand over the money they are setting up the next family to be held hostage.

LOL.

So you'd happily put your own or your families life at risk to save your company a bit of (insured) cash?And you have to ask why people think you're an idiot?!LOL!

Its the Gardaís job to catch the criminals, your priority lies in protecting your own ass and your families.

Go for it though, you'll make the headlines for sure (if it ever happens), and it won't just be the users on Boards.ie calling you an idiot then.

MooseJam

rb_ie wrote:

LOL.

So you'd happily put your own or your families life at risk to save your company a bit of (insured) cash?And you have to ask why people think you're an idiot?!LOL!

Its the Gardaís job to catch the criminals, your priority lies in protecting your own ass and your families.

Go for it though, you'll make the headlines for sure (if it ever happens), and it won't just be the users on Boards.ie calling you an idiot then.

If done properly there wouldn't be any extra risk involved for the family, the gang could just be observed discreetly and the guards could move in when the whereabouts of the family is discovered, they are professionals after all, why not give then some credit and trust. Why do you think its a good idea playing along with these gangs, maybe the gang that kidnaps your family will be a bunch of psychos and they'll be laughing at you playing along and getting the money cause they are just gonna kill everybody anyway, have you considered that possibility.

Rb

MooseJam wrote:

If done properly there wouldn't be any extra risk involved for the family, the gang could just be observed discreetly and the guards could move in when the whereabouts of the family is discovered, they are professionals after all, why not give then some credit and trust. Why do you think its a good idea playing along with these gangs, maybe the gang that kidnaps your family will be a bunch of psychos and they'll be laughing at you playing along and getting the money cause they are just gonna kill everybody anyway, have you considered that possibility.

They're not going to kill your family unneccessarily. They're professional criminals, killing people without the need to just adds more to their records. If the Gardaí get involved and surround the house as you so stupidly suggested, they may use you and/or your family as proper hostages and start killing them if their demands aren't met, as they have to express their power/excert their control in the situation. Its an absolutely stupid and unnecessary risk. Playing along, doing what you're told and getting them what they want will ensure the safety of you and your family. It is the WISE DECISION TO MAKE IN THE SITUATION.

Its not my job to catch the criminals, its the Gardaí's, I'm certainly not going to f*ck around with people with guns to save a company that I owe absolutely nothing to a bit of hassle.

You have to be trolling (and quite poorly at that), theres no way someone could actually seriously come out with this crap.

Karoma

Folks, less of the abuse. Grow up or shut up.

Nermal

We all pay the cost of the insurance, so saying 'it's all insured anyway' is of no good. Hardly in society's interest to let vast sums end up in criminal hands either.

Quite simply, the consent of more people should be necessary to open a safe. McDowell is perfectly correct, the banks and security companies can solve this one easily, they just don't care enough.

MooseJam

Playing along with these guys has led to the situation we have now with families being taken every other week, it could quite easily have been nipped in the bud if the first couple of gangs who tried this had been apprehended

Rb

Nermal wrote:

We all pay the cost of the insurance, so saying 'it's all insured anyway' is of no good. Hardly in society's interest to let vast sums end up in criminal hands either.

You're quite clueless too, aren't you? Bank branches are not allowed hold very substantial amounts of money, a bank raid will have little or no effect on YOUR insurance premiums.

MooseJam

rb_ie wrote:

You're quite clueless too, aren't you? Bank branches are not allowed hold very substantial amounts of money, a bank raid will have little or no effect on YOUR insurance premiums.

how do you know that, who insures the banks ?

Rb

MooseJam wrote:

how do you know that, who insures the banks ?

Because I'm very well aware of the limits a bank branch can hold. A persons house burning to the ground would have more of an effect (still little or none) on the overall price of insurance than a single bank raid.

MooseJam

didn't the ira steal 28 million sterling from a bank, whats that in euros