Serie A Fixtures Cancelled

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

eirebhoy

Something serious will be done judging by this from a few days ago.

ROME, Jan 29 (Reuters) - The president of the Italian Football Federation (FIGC) has threatened to halt the country's championships after a weekend of violence left one man dead.
"We are on high alert. To defend referees and the image of football, I am ready to take drastic measures," Luca Pancalli said in a statement on the FIGC's website on Monday.
"I hope that with the contribution of everyone -- officials, coaches and players on the pitch and also the true fans and football lovers in the stadiums -- we can restore a climate of sportsmanship and respect that will avoid a stop to the leagues."
Tragedy struck in the southern town of Luzzi on Saturday when an official of amateur league club Sammartinese died after being caught up in a fight at the end of a game.
Ermanno Licursi, 40, collapsed and died after being punched while trying to separate brawling players and fans at the end of a match against local rivals Cancellese.
The violence continued on Sunday in cities across the country.
In Florence, a Livorno fan needed 20 stitches in his head after being attacked by Fiorentina fans shortly before their teams met at the Stadio Franchi.
In the northern city of Bergamo, police battled with a hundred Atalanta fans who tried to attack coaches carrying supporters of visiting team Catania.
In the fourth division, Serie D, a game between Genzano and Normanna was suspended early in the second half after a linesman was hit by a drum thrown from the stands.

Guy:Incognito

Never a dull week in Italian football is there?

gandalf

The Italian National teams international fixture next week is cancelled as well. Oh and apparently it might be longer than just the one weekend according to Sty News.

Savman

Disgraceful but cancelling games won't really do anything.

eirebhoy

gandalf wrote:

The Italian National teams international fixture next week is cancelled as well. Oh and apparently it might be longer than just the one weekend according to Sty News.

I'd say more than a 50% chance of the league being scrapped for the rest of the season.

therecklessone

Its the English disease don't ya know...

mike65

That offical dying was unfortunate and could have happened at a few GAA matches in the last year or two. Its not a footie thing.

Mike.

eirebhoy

mike65 wrote:

That offical dying was unfortunate and could have happened at a few GAA matches in the last year or two. Its not a footie thing.

Mike.

He was killed with a bomb though. That's murder.

Mr. Presentable

therecklessone wrote:

Its the English disease don't ya know...

Sad, but true. Who knew it would be so contagious.

mike65

nipplenuts I could be wrong but I suspect thercklessone was being at least half sarcastic, anyway you can ask the Dutch, Germans, Swedes, Poles etc about hooliganism.

Mike.

eirebhoy

mike I think nipplenuts was being sarcastic back at him.

Bateman

what a disaster, heading to Milan tomorrow with no game to look forward to on Sunday :mad:

jank

mike65 wrote:

nipplenuts I could be wrong but I suspect thercklessone was being at least half sarcastic, anyway you can ask the Dutch, Germans, Swedes, Poles etc about hooliganism.

Mike.

Yea maybe, but its well known that it originated in England. When Liverpool fans murdered 39 Italian fans at Heysel in 1986 it was a watershed for the end of violence in the English game. Hope the same is true here.

Helix

jank wrote:

its well known that it originated in England

ahahah

yeh

the english invented violence

jank

Helix wrote:

ahahah

yeh

the english invented violence

Eh no. We are on about football hooliganism. General violence is another issue altogether which should be discussed in Politics or Humanities.

evilhomer

eirebhoy wrote:

He was killed with a bomb though. That's murder.

Yeah it was extremely well organised hooligans from reading some news reports, they brought TEAR GAS! and threw it on the pitch. Not to mention the high explosives they were throwing at the police.

That kind of thing cannot be tolerated. Hopefully the Italian FA will sort this out once and for all. Even if it means playing the rest of the seasons games behind closed doors or calling off the rest of the season.

justfortherecor

Yet another disgraceful day for Italian Football.

Something serious has to be done about this; a life has been violently ended over a game of football, and suspending some fixtures will always appear as light actions in the face of this.

I agree with a previous poster, I think the FIGC will take some drastic measures after this latest incident.

Helix

jank wrote:

Eh no. We are on about football hooliganism. General violence is another issue altogether which should be discussed in Politics or Humanities.

the english didnt invent football hooliganism

to even suggest that is ridiculous

wherever there is violence therell be violence among football fans

theyre not mutually exclusive

jank

Helix wrote:

the english didnt invent football hooliganism

to even suggest that is ridiculous

wherever there is violence therell be violence among football fans

theyre not mutually exclusive

So your saying that because we live in violent world that its a natural progression into the world of sport. But if that is true why isn't it true when it comes to NFL, Rugby, GAA even Golf fans.

If you feel that strongly about it raise the issue in Humanities.

Mutually exclusive in only a few circumstances so therefore not mutually exclusive at all.;)

YeatsCounty

Disgusting. Absolutely disgusting. If the FIGC does not act now and make a true stand against the power of the Ultras and the violence that is overwhelming the Italian game at the moment (and simply cancelling fixtures for a couple of weeks or so doen't count as a "true stand" to me), then who knows what will happen to football in that country?

Please Italy, crush the hooligan element of your football clubs once and for all.

Oh, and this incident does not involve England in any way, shape or form. So is there really any need to speak about their problems, past or present?

evilhomer wrote:

Yeah it was extremely well organised hooligans from reading some news reports, they brought TEAR GAS! and threw it on the pitch. Not to mention the high explosives they were throwing at the police.

According to Channel 4's Football Italia site:
"Following Andrea Caracciolo’s (Palermo) goal, flares were thrown from the Catania section towards the Palermo fans and when they fought back the police used tear gas to disperse the crowd."

Of course, neither report is 100% clear at the moment AFAIK.

griffdaddy

jank wrote:

...When Liverpool fans murdered 39 Italian fans...

I presume you're either a trolling idiot or you dont know what murder means? It's generally accepted to mean to commit a premeditated attack on someone with the intent of purposely and deliberately ending their life. Granted i'm a liverpool fan, and a young one at that, too young to remember the disaster, but i'm pretty sure most people wouldnt agree with language like that. Call them hooligans, thugs, manslaughterers or whatever, but not murderers.

YeatsCounty

PS: Rest in peace, officer Filippo Raciti.

Healio

If they all hate each other so much they will find each other. When a match is on it is convenient for them, as they get to see a match and kick the living piss out of each other, cancelling a few matches will do nothing.

By the sounds of it they should start Serie H (H for hooligan), squad of 100 scum, playing against 19 other teams home and away, it'd be the easiest way to get them out of football!!

griffdaddy

i just cant understand the whole hooligan mindset, i mean, it's pretty funny slagging the shít outta one of your mates who supports a rival team if you beat them or something,but even that has a limited appeal. I think the underlying political problems in Italy are undestimated in the whole hooligan saga over there, sometimes people forget that southern Italy is one of the poorest regions in Europe, and a lot of people there feel they get dicked around by the wealthier parts of Italy.

Helix

jank wrote:

So your saying that because we live in violent world that its a natural progression into the world of sport. But if that is true why isn't it true when it comes to NFL, Rugby, GAA even Golf fans.

If you feel that strongly about it raise the issue in Humanities.

Mutually exclusive in only a few circumstances so therefore not mutually exclusive at all.;)

its simply because more scum are into soccer

therecklessone

Helix wrote:

the english didnt invent football hooliganism

to even suggest that is ridiculous

They popularised it, and helped spread it through Western Europe (and on into the former Eastern bloc after the fall of the wall)

My point in raising the spectre of English hooliganism was to contrast the usual reaction to incidents involving English fans and those involving other nationalities. The recent World Cup was a case in point, some conveniently ignored the pitched battle fought between German and Polish hooligans to highlight the misbehaviour of England supporters.

When football authorities and governments across Europe get serious the way the British government and FA did in the late 80s/early 90s, then we might see a reduction in football violence (and it will only be a reduction, for football violence will always manifest itself)

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

mike65

I would'nt put any store in the authorities tackling this in Italy, the state is corrupt at so many levels, the olde worlde mafia may not be a big influence any more but the Big Money as propogated by Silvio runs riot.

Where would you even start? Sack all the governing bodies? Close clubs?

written before yesterday.

Mike.

jank

its simply because more scum are into soccer

If so why aren't there fights in golf, rugby gaa, F1 etc etc.

You said they were not mutually exclusive but yet they are it seems by your very own admission.

more scum are into soccer

I presume you're either a trolling idiot or you dont know what murder means?

What happened to attack the post not the poster rule?

You may be right that murder has to be defined as premediated and manslaughter has a more "accidental" note attached to it. However the fact remains that 39 almost exclusively Italian fans died because of the deliberate actions of a section of liverpool fans to cause trouble.

Might be manslaughter in your eyes but thats murder in my eyes. Feel free to disagree but calling me a troll because my opinion is different says more about you then me.
The attack on that policeman is murder in my eyes but would you call it manslaughter or murder?
I know many that would call it murder.

Its a bit of a crazy world we live in.

Bodhidharma

I dont think it is fair to call last night's event in Italy murder. Clearly the whole thing got out of control, and mob rule went crazy. The Italian fans are known for their fondness for firecrackers and flares, and from what i understand a firecraker exploded in the policeman's face.

I wouldn't say its murder, just a tragic event that should never have happpened. The football authorities in Italy must take as much responsibility as the violent fans.

As for Liverpool fans being murderers, this is something that really upsets me. As a Utd fan i have often heard of our fans calling Liverpool fans murderers, and to be honest its just as bad as them singing songs about Munich. By degrading them with these names, we are as bad as they are.

gimmick

Jank wrote:

Liverpool fans murdered 39 Italian fans at Heysel in 1986

What happened to attack the post not the poster rule?

^ Ill attack your post then Jank, and I must say I am very surprised that you made such an awful statement. The Heysel disaster was an horrific night for Brussles, Turin and Liverpool. Sure there were a number of idiots in the Liverpool entourage who were looking for trouble, probably no more or less than what would have been in istanbul in May 05. The fact is, the Heysel stadium was not equipped to deal with such a huge match, and the police were not equipped to deal with such large numbers. To make a sweeping staement that Liverpool fans 'murdered' 39 Italians is very wide of the mark. I am not rtrying to lessen this tragedy, I remember the night clearly and I was only 7 at the time FFS, so get your facts staright before making a very 'trollish' comment like you did.

Anyway, back on topic, I dont know what stopping games is going to achieve? If fellas want to riot/cause trouble, they will, football is a handy excuse. Sure, tensions are high at a match, but this? Its a disgrace that a man doing his job should be injured, let alone fatally injured. What restrictions are there on fans on entering grounds? How did they get these explosives through the turnstiles in the first place.

Bodhidharma wrote:

I wouldn't say its murder, just a tragic event that should never have happpened. The football authorities in Italy must take as much responsibility as the violent fans.

Its more than juts a tragic event. Those involved should be punsihed to the full extent of the law. Throwing an explosive device, even like a flare, is at best reckless, and is most likely designed to cause harm. Now Im no solicitor, but thats at least voluntary manslughter, if not murder (to use the yank term - 3rd degree muder, does that apply in ireland?)

Mr. Presentable

eirebhoy wrote:

mike I think nipplenuts was being sarcastic back at him.

Spotted!

mike65

Do'h!

Mike.

evilhomer

YeatsCounty wrote:

According to Channel 4's Football Italia site:
"Following Andrea Caracciolo’s (Palermo) goal, flares were thrown from the Catania section towards the Palermo fans and when they fought back the police used tear gas to disperse the crowd."

I got the whole Tear Gas thrown onto the pitch Idea from quotes from Luca Pancalli the Italian Federation commissioner.

Luca Pancalli wrote:

Before then, nothing had happened, but they started causing trouble and as the images show threw tear gas onto the pitch.

Source : http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?HLID=445852&CPID=21&title=Italian+games+called+off&lid=&channel=Football_Home&f=rss&clid=1248

Shocking stuff that fans can even get into the stadiums with that sort of thing, especially since the Italian Police must know who these people are, they cause trouble most weeks.

I agree with other posters that the Football Associations of countries like Italy, Poland, Germany, etc. must get tough like the British police did. It's the only way.

Guy:Incognito

jank wrote:

ou may be right that murder has to be defined as premediated and manslaughter has a more "accidental" note attached to it. However the fact remains that 39 almost exclusively Italian fans died because of the deliberate actions of a section of liverpool fans to cause trouble.

Might be manslaughter in your eyes but thats murder in my eyes. Feel free to disagree but calling me a troll because my opinion is different says more about you then me.
The attack on that policeman is murder in my eyes but would you call it manslaughter or murder?
I know many that would call it murder.

Its a bit of a crazy world we live in.

I assume you've read about and researched what happened? If the 39 people had been beaten to death I'd say yes, murder. The simplest way to describe itwas that there was fighting and clashes. Juve fans backed off and a lot of pressure was put on an old wall which collapsed, people were also killed by being trampled.

Theres no excuse for rioting and hooliganism but at the same time the stadium shouldnt collapse. UEFA were neglegent to have such a big game in what was a delapidated stadium.



If you have a fight on the street and the other person runs away from you, but as they are running, trip, fall and die. Did you murder them?

godtabh

Just saw the news. Holy shit is all I can say. The pictuers on RTE was like what you used to see up North.

These people arent fans. They arent interested in football. I just cant get over the fact that a police man was killed by a home made bomb at a football team.

Guy:Incognito

In fairness, it has been coming, so much crap goes on at the game sit's a wonder anyone gets to see the game at all.

A link was posted a while ago of a moped being dropped from the top tier of one of the grounds. How can an FA that allows a moped to be brought into a football ground be expected to sort anything themselves?

jester77

Stekelly wrote:

I assume you've read about and researched what happened? If the 39 people had been beaten to death I'd say yes, murder. The simplest way to describe itwas that there was fighting and clashes. Juve fans backed off and a lot of pressure was put on an old wall which collapsed, people were also killed by being trampled.

Theres no excuse for rioting and hooliganism but at the same time the stadium shouldnt collapse. UEFA were neglegent to have such a big game in what was a delapidated stadium.



If you have a fight on the street and the other person runs away from you, but as they are running, trip, fall and die. Did you murder them?

I for sure wouldn't call that murder but yesterdays case I would definetly class as murder. The bomb was thrown directly into the police vehicle. There's no way that can't be classified as murder as it was very deliberate.

therecklessone

jank wrote:

Might be manslaughter in your eyes but thats murder in my eyes. Feel free to disagree but calling me a troll because my opinion is different says more about you then me.

I wouldn't call your post trolling, I'd call it crass and insulting.

Mossy Monk

Stekelly wrote:

A link was posted a while ago of a moped being dropped from the top tier of one of the grounds. How can an FA that allows a moped to be brought into a football ground be expected to sort anything themselves?

that was at the San Siro. i believe the moped got up there after being driven up a ramp thats used by the emergency services

Mr. Presentable

kearnsr wrote:

Just saw the news. Holy shit is all I can say. The pictuers on RTE was like what you used to see up North.

These people arent fans. They arent interested in football. I just cant get over the fact that a police man was killed by a home made bomb at a football team.

In one respect you're absolutely right. It's not about football. Football's just the social excuse.

To hark back to the 70s and 80s in England, they had the same problems caused by unemployment, social deprivation and racism - it had bugger all to do with football. Italy, as we all know, is a country of civil abuse, high unemployment, internal and external racism and poor legal enforcement. The hooliganism has bugger all to do with football. In the end the Govt has to provide the solution, but with the help of the clubs, who can identify and exclude the hooligan from associating with their real fans, in the manner the English have done. OK the English still have a problem - mostly with travelling national team support - but it's a huge step on from where they were and should be examined and copied where appropriate by the Italians.

It would be an awful thing for football if the Italians are lost to the game, or become a backwater through this disaster. Apart from Liverpool, Ajax, Bayern and Real Madrid they are home to the only other true aristocrats of the game in Europe.

Guy:Incognito

Mossy Monk wrote:

that was at the San Siro. i believe the moped got up there after being driven up a ramp thats used by the emergency services

I did kind of assume they didnt take it through the turstile.:D I'd LOVE to see someone try that though. "what's that under your jacket"? "who me?, it's a big scarf"

When I said "allow" I was'nt meaning it in the sense that they are fine with people bringing in mopeds, but more in that it shouldnt be possible for people to get a moped in. The only Uk stadium I've been to is Anfield and I'd be fairly certain you wouldnt get a moped in there anywhere if you were that way inclined.

nipplenuts wrote:

In one respect you're absolutely right. It's not about football. Football's just the social excuse.

To hark back to the 70s and 80s in England, they had the same problems caused by unemployment, social deprivation and racism - it had bugger all to do with football. Italy, as we all know, is a country of civil abuse, high unemployment, internal and external racism and poor legal enforcement. The hooliganism has bugger all to do with football. In the end the Govt has to provide the solution, but with the help of the clubs, who can identify and exclude the hooligan from associating with their real fans, in the manner the English have done. OK the English still have a problem - mostly with travelling national team support - but it's a huge step on from where they were and should be examined and copied where appropriate by the Italians.

It would be an awful thing for football if the Italians are lost to the game, or become a backwater through this disaster. Apart from Liverpool, Ajax, Bayern and Real Madrid they are home to the only other true aristocrats of the game in Europe.

Trouble inside the grounds (premiership ones at least) seems to be more or less eradicated in England. Outside the ground is a police matter and I dont think clubs or football in general should be held accountabel for what happens off their premises. It's very for autorities to blame football when two random people caus etrouble or start a fight, but happen to be wearign a Jersey. The Italians on th eother hand dont seem overly bothered with stoppign the fans doing what they want. Maybe their hand will be forced now and needed something like this to happen to make them react.

aidan24326

Stekelly wrote:

Trouble inside the grounds (premiership ones at least) seems to be more or less eradicated in England. Outside the ground is a police matter and I dont think clubs or football in general should be held accountabel for what happens off their premises. It's very for autorities to blame football when two random people caus etrouble or start a fight, but happen to be wearign a Jersey. The Italians on th eother hand dont seem overly bothered with stoppign the fans doing what they want. Maybe their hand will be forced now and needed something like this to happen to make them react.

The English actually deserve credit for stamping out alot of the hooliganism that used to plague their game.

But it's always been a big problem in Italy aswell and I just wonder why they didn't do something about it before, or why it should need a serious incident like this to make them take action. When you see gangs of mask-wearing hoodlums inside some of the stadia it's obvious that there's a major problem.

mike65

Aparently many grounds in Italy are not owned by the clubs who just lease the property. So they won't raise money to invest in someone elses' infrastucture while the local authorites let things rot.

Mike.

Mr. Presentable

aidan24326 wrote:

The English actually deserve credit for stamping out alot of the hooliganism that used to plague their game.

Great credit! But it had to go right to the edge of destruction before action was taken. Same in Italy, I'd say. I believe there'll be statements made, promises made, and sod all done until they have a Heysel of their own.

Raskolnikov

I can't believe people are trying to blame the English for this :rolleyes: The English league has had its problems, but have taken huge steps to crackdown on hooliganism (racism too) in their game. Italy however, have remained on the dark ages in both these aspects. Is it little wonder that Italian stadiums lay half empty on match day?

Bateman

Stekelly wrote:

The simplest way to describe itwas that there was fighting and clashes. Juve fans backed off and a lot of pressure was put on an old wall which collapsed, people were also killed by being trampled.

The simplest way to describe what happened at Hillsborough was that thousands of piss-up Liverpool fans turned up outside the ground without tickets, causing a major public order situation, the police made a decision to open exit gates, and ticketless fans charged in.

redspider

My thoughts on this are an over-reaction that will hurt genuine fans more than those that cause problems and get involved in riots. The games should not be cancelled. Worst case, they should be held behind closed doors with a limited number of officials or indeed free tickets to families, etc. That may still affect the genuine single-male fan, but I'm just talking about a first 'worst case' reprimand.

I have a feeling that if it was a fan that was killed in the melee/riots that all matches would not be called off. The fact that it was a policeman has undertones of the police withdrawing their support to police the stadiums for all other matches. That to me is double standards.

I'm all against hooliganism, but the way that football is ran in many clubs is geared towards masses of males and mixed with alocohol and intense rivalry, and that can and does lead to trouble. This particular case in Italy was a match between two local rivals in Siciliy. There is trouble all over Europe most weekends, pockets here and there, small things that seldom get reported. The authorities are right not to emphasise these imo.

So, this action to cancel ALL matches is playing right into the hands of those that were involved in any shape or form, as they are loving it.

Redspider

ps: no need to re-hash Hillsborough or Heysel I would have thought. They have been discussed at length on other threads and are not relevant to this particular case.

Bateman

redspider wrote:

My thoughts on this are an over-reaction that will hurt genuine fans more than those that cause problems and get involved in riots. The games should not be cancelled. Worst case, they should be held behind closed doors with a limited number of officials or indeed free tickets to families, etc. That may still affect the genuine single-male fan, but I'm just talking about a first 'worst case' reprimand.

I have a feeling that if it was a fan that was killed in the melee/riots that all matches would not be called off. The fact that it was a policeman has undertones of the police withdrawing their support to police the stadiums for all other matches. That to me is double standards.

I'm all against hooliganism, but the way that football is ran in many clubs is geared towards masses of males and mixed with alocohol and intense rivalry, and that can and does lead to trouble. This particular case in Italy was a match between two local rivals in Siciliy. There is trouble all over Europe most weekends, pockets here and there, small things that seldom get reported. The authorities are right not to emphasise these imo.

So, this action to cancel ALL matches is playing right into the hands of those that were involved in any shape or form, as they are loving it.

Redspider

ps: no need to re-hash Hillsborough or Heysel I would have thought. They have been discussed at length on other threads and are not relevant to this particular case.

Top post, hard to argue with any of that.