detroit city

knighted

Colonel Sanders wrote:

yes he was at leopardstown, that where he spoke to him. Possibly a hint that Brave inca wasn't fully wound up for the AIG (please note David Hyland amongst others were laying the horse at 6/4 at the off and there wasn't a bean for it) or possibly the syndicate member being over optimistic.

He never said that hardy isn't a threat just that they're confident of reversing form in march and sees macs joy as a far bigger threat.

maybe there wasnt a bean for it as people thought it was still no value ?
plus one of the prominant syndicate members is a bookie who stood there also so i wouldnt read too much into the 6/4 -he is some horse but he not for me in the ch -probably an e/w bet to nothing- but i think we will see a new kid on the block this year -

Sublimity

Time will tell......

EoS.;)

fade2black

Sublimity wrote:

Time will tell......

EoS.;)

Muppet.

knighted

Sublimity wrote:

Time will tell......

EoS.;)

i hope time will tell as i have backed him -i would love for this horse to win but i think u have entered this forum on the wrong foot -if ur connected to the horse just say so and u will be left alone if u wish but i would love if u discussed ur opinion

scojones

knighted wrote:

i hope time will tell as i have backed him -i would love for this horse to win but i think u have entered this forum on the wrong foot -if ur connected to the horse just say so and u will be left alone if u wish but i would love if u discussed ur opinion

I think our friend there has been spending too much time with Knackers eating strawberries.

Sublimity

fade2black wrote:

Muppet.

The Muppets are a group of puppets and costume characters, and the company created by Jim Henson. Individually, a Muppet is properly one of the puppets made by Jim Henson or his Creature Shop – though the term is often used erroneously to refer to any puppet that resembles the distinctive style of The Muppet Show and Sesame Street characters, the term is both an informal name and legal trademark linked to the characters created by The Jim Henson Company. After frequently changing hands since the death of creator Jim Henson in 1990, The Muppets have been owned by The Walt Disney Company, through The Muppets Studio (formerly known as Muppets Holding Company), since early 2004.

The word "Muppet" itself was said by Henson to have been created by combining the words "marionette" and "puppet"; however, Henson was also known to have stated that it was just something he liked the sound of, and he made up the "marionette/puppet" story while talking to a journalist because it sounded plausible.[1]

Muppets are distinguished from ventriloquist "dummies", which are typically animated only in the head and face, in that their arms or other features are also mobile and expressive. Muppets are typically made of softer materials. They are also presented as being independent of the puppeteer, who is usually not visible, hidden behind a set or outside of the camera frame.

scojones

Look, the muppet can copy and paste from wikipedia!

Hoofer

Hey Sub, I think your on the wrong thread here mate with that muppet lark.

Hoofer

Hey Sub, fill us in with any news on your horse sublimity and not fecking muppets man

Colonel Sanders

sublimity continues to shorten today, just had a quick look at oddschecker. really reminds me of newmill last year. kept shortening and i kept scratching my head as to who was backing it.

Btw whoever has the 900 on betfair is in a nice position

knighted

md wexford is going to lay me 50s to a ton -:D lol

masterK

Colonel Sanders wrote:

sublimity continues to shorten today, just had a quick look at oddschecker. really reminds me of newmill last year. kept shortening and i kept scratching my head as to who was backing it.

Btw whoever has the 900 on betfair is in a nice position

Having backed him at last years festival I do think he's a horse with a lot of potential but I think this years Champion may be a year too soon for him. He was rated 108 on the flat compared to Detroit City who was on 96.

Phillip Carberry sounds confident on his chances
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/07/02/14/RACING_Sublimity.html

Sublimity

masterK wrote:

Having backed him at last years festival I do think he's a horse with a lot of potential but I think this years Champion may be a year too soon for him. He was rated 108 on the flat compared to Detroit City who was on 96.

Phillip Carberry sounds confident on his chances
http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=racing/07/02/14/RACING_Sublimity.html

20's still value.

fade2black

PM from Sublimity

I know more about racing and know people you've only dreamed of... Idiot.. now **** off to your sad world... :cool:

knighted

sad that he wont engage in conversation-im on it at at a decent enuff price 55s-i think he has a major chance and am going to have a go on course also -but it would be nice to hear his reasoning instead of i told u so -is he off ur christmas card list fade ?

fade2black

I was another who backed Sublimity last year and I thought he was very unlucky. The train has left the station for this year though and I'm not on at the right price so Im going to leave it go.

Your man is just one of many ignorants who pass through the forum every now and again.

knighted

sublimity -why is the horse entered into the county hurdle at cheltenham also ?

Tush

Any news on the other Hobbs horse (Noble Request) for the champion Hurdle??

Crumbs

Sublimity could fall early in the race or be brought down or any other number of things, meaning he might hardly have a race and could then try for the County Hurdle instead. He does look to be on a good mark. With three days between them, he could even run in both but I'd say it's more of a safety net.

Noble Request is injured and out for the season.

Tush

Cheers Crumbs.

knighted

Crumbs wrote:

Sublimity could fall early in the race or be brought down or any other number of things, meaning he might hardly have a race and could then try for the County Hurdle instead. He does look to be on a good mark. With three days between them, he could even run in both but I'd say it's more of a safety net.

Noble Request is injured and out for the season.

crumbs -that a generalised situation and why most horses are doubly entered at the festival -i was trying to establish from sublimity if they were going to switch -ive laid my bet off any way -just hoping he not to shy to answer

bookiebasher

well done john carr....even though i layed detroit city for the sweep he is better than that...also thanks to brace inca and hardy for all the memories.
Inca might come back but will need a break i think

masterK

What odds Brave Inca going chasing next year? He very nearly did after he won the triumph a few years back.

twenty8

mdwexford wrote:

my god you'd know this was an Irish forum, complete rubbish about Sublimity, anyone who thinks this horse can come in the top 5 is wrong.

Detroit City has been immaculate all season, the only Champion Hurdle contender who is unbeaten all year. had to make his own pace in dawdling races and still won. the faster pace and course is not a plus for anyone as ALL THE ABOVE contenders are proven at the course. at the end of the day its whoever gets their horse there 100% on the day and has luck in running etc as theres sfa between them all. my money will be going on Straw Bear as i think hes still relatively unexposed and has more to come and if he comes back before the festival Harchibald who has nothing to find on past form.

Sometimes I love reading over old posts!!!!

jimi_t

twenty8 wrote:

Sometimes I love reading over old posts!!!!

Hindsight is 20/20. I think that people should avoid having overly strong opinions on festival races - they're so unpredictable and horses that deserve to win are often brought down (I had a lot of sunday gamblers going "I told you so" after My Way de Solzen won).

mdwexford

twenty8 wrote:

Sometimes I love reading over old posts!!!!

i didnt see any of your posts before the race so how about you shut your mouth. anyone who backed Sublimity yesterday wanted their head tested, he had 35lbs to find and was way too short regardless of the result. Detroit City ran below par, Straw Bear bled and Iktitaf may well have been the winner but for falling. Brave Inca and Hardy got shown up for being past it imo by a young horse with a bit of speed at last.

mdwexford

masterK wrote:

What odds Brave Inca going chasing next year? He very nearly did after he won the triumph a few years back.

Brave Inca never won the Triumph

Morgans

gracious MdWexford.

35lbs to find even though he finished close to straw bear when hampered in the Surpreme Novices. Connections knew what they had before hand which took balls giving that it was a champion hurdle. And those slag off connections and form students as needing to have their heads tested, need to look at themselves a bit. All you needed to do is not to be so dogmatic.

And finally, after three years of battles Brave Inca were beaten a couple of lengths by a group winner on the flat.

There was no fluke about this win, and if the race was run again next week, Sublimity should start a short price favourite. He has now proven himself far ahead of Detroit City, and Brave Inca who for being a slow old horse still managed to finish second, having help set a scorching pace. A very very good horse. ANy horse that has a record of 1312 at the cheltenham festival cannot be knocked. Just as Hardy's record was 1134. Two great horses.

mdwexford

Morgans wrote:

gracious MdWexford.

35lbs to find even though he finished close to straw bear when hampered in the Surpreme Novices. Connections knew what they had before hand which took balls giving that it was a champion hurdle. And those slag off connections and form students as needing to have their heads tested, need to look at themselves a bit. All you needed to do is not to be so dogmatic.

And finally, after three years of battles Brave Inca were beaten a couple of lengths by a group winner on the flat.

There was no fluke about this win, and if the race was run again next week, Sublimity should start a short price favourite. He has now proven himself far ahead of Detroit City, and Brave Inca who for being a slow old horse still managed to finish second, having help set a scorching pace. A very very good horse. ANy horse that has a record of 1312 at the cheltenham festival cannot be knocked. Just as Hardy's record was 1134. Two great horses.

are you gracious about Aran Concerto

twenty8

mdwexford wrote:

i didnt see any of your posts before the race so how about you shut your mouth. anyone who backed Sublimity yesterday wanted their head tested, he had 35lbs to find and was way too short regardless of the result. Detroit City ran below par, Straw Bear bled and Iktitaf may well have been the winner but for falling. Brave Inca and Hardy got shown up for being past it imo by a young horse with a bit of speed at last.

I think you need to calm down Wexford. Nobody here minds people giving tips and them not coming in. That is the nature of the game - and perhaps actually adds to the fun of it.

However, your comments were completely offsided and refused to accept the fact that you could - and were - wrong. And your recent comments even underline that even more. Get over it. The best horse on the day won....

Morgans

MdWexford, If you think you will upset me about Aran Concerto, you will be wrong....again. I had laid off my stake on the horse long ago, I could have done better at the odds but was happy to have a 22/1 pure profit going for me in it.

As for being gracious about it. I havent commented one way or another on it. I think several things went against him, but no excuses. I wouldnt write off the horse just yet, jumping went to pieces after he hit the fourth last - Carberry probably knows the horse more and the change of jockey didnt help. Maybe it was the better ground in the bigger field. I would still fancy him to beat Catch me if they met for a third time.

Were you right not to back him when I recommended him at 25/1...maybe yes because five months after the fact you would have lost money, but one of my greatest pleasures this season was watching him come down in price and left me with a free bet at 22/1 about a horse that opened up this morning at 7/4.

scojones

mdwexford wrote:

are you gracious about Aran Concerto

That is the most childish post I have seen on this form in a long long time.

masterK

mdwexford wrote:

Brave Inca never won the Triumph

Apologies, I meant the Supreme, always nice to have people like yourself around to correct any mistakes.

mdwexford

scojones wrote:

That is the most childish post I have seen on this form in a long long time.

maybe thats true but i dont need some idiot who doesnt even post here regularly bringing up my post about Sublimity in the middle of racing yesterday going "i love reading over old posts". i had an opinion before the race and dont need some muppet to point out that he won.

mdwexford

masterK wrote:

Apologies, I meant the Supreme, always nice to have people like yourself around to correct any mistakes.

i presume thats a poor attempt at sarcasm but would you rather i say nothing and go on getting things wrong

CiaranC

chillax dude

Morgans

mdwexford wrote:

maybe thats true but i dont need some idiot who doesnt even post here regularly bringing up my post about Sublimity in the middle of racing yesterday going "i love reading over old posts". i had an opinion before the race and dont need some muppet to point out that he won.

The funny thing about it is eventhough he won, and won well (easiest winner of a Champion hurdle since Rooster Booster if not Istabraq) you still think those who backed him at all rates down to 16/1 needed their heads examined.

Its one thing to have an opinion before the race is run, and to be proved wrong, even if you are so dogmatically opposed to it, but to do when the race has been run, and have been proven wrong, that takes a certain type of personality.

Colonel Sanders

16/1 was a poor value price for a horse who had only won an egg and spoon race this yr. Fair enough he was unlucky in the supreme last yr but looked out of his depth subsequently at punchestown. Maybe he'll turn out to be a superstar but you could not back it on what he'd shown over hurdless so far.

bettings all about value, if somene tosses a coin and offer you 1/2 about heads you might welll draw on the bet but you need you head examined for placing it in the first place.

Morgans

There was sound logic behind the support. 3l behind straw bear clear of Jazz Messenger. The form of last year's Supreme stacked up. Straw Bear was 7/1 despite having a stinker at Kempton with no excuse. The trends boys who supported the irish horses told you that it has been 22 years since a 5yo has won the race. The last 10 year old to win the race was 27 years ago. Sublimity fitted many of the trends. The horse runs well fresh, and was clearly not right at Punchestown last year - where he was still only 4l behind Straw Bear. As the trainer intimated afterwards would have hacked up off 10-12 in the County. They were bold enough to go for the big one, because they were convinced that they had a really special horse on their hands. I know the jockey rated him an 8/1 shot after his Navan win.

Those who think 16/1 wasnt a decent price, even in hindsight, need to be less sure about their opinions, and understand the basics of racing. The fact that Sublimity looks a better horse on worse ground makes me think he is one of the best we have seen in a long while.

mdwexford

Morgans wrote:

There was sound logic behind the support. 3l behind straw bear clear of Jazz Messenger. The form of last year's Supreme stacked up. Straw Bear was 7/1 despite having a stinker at Kempton with no excuse. The trends boys who supported the irish horses told you that it has been 22 years since a 5yo has won the race. The last 10 year old to win the race was 27 years ago. Sublimity fitted many of the trends. The horse runs well fresh, and was clearly not right at Punchestown last year - where he was still only 4l behind Straw Bear. As the trainer intimated afterwards would have hacked up off 10-12 in the County. They were bold enough to go for the big one, because they were convinced that they had a really special horse on their hands. I know the jockey rated him an 8/1 shot after his Navan win.

Those who think 16/1 wasnt a decent price, even in hindsight, need to be less sure about their opinions, and understand the basics of racing. The fact that Sublimity looks a better horse on worse ground makes me think he is one of the best we have seen in a long while.

more rubbish from you as usual. the Colonel above posts exactly what i was thinking and still am. its not a results based thing, its a fact he was a terrible bet at 16/1, end of story.

you just dont get the Supreme Novices form at all, Straw Bear improved by 20lbs to give him a shot, Sublimity hadnt run to a high enough mark to give him a chance. trends are there to be broken. look at Trabolgan and Well Chief in recent years for evidence. jockey said he should be 8/1, is that just a made up quote??

what are you on about dont understand the basics of racing, you talk tripe non stop. HE WAS A TERRIBLE BET AT 16/1 END OF STORY, ANYONE WHO THINKS HE WAS VALUE IS INSANE. when did he look better on worse ground, his best 2 runs by a mile were on good ground at cheltenham. your whole post is a joke. this is my last post on this

Morgans

As i said, a fundamental misunderstanding of horse racing.

What you are saying is that Sublimity couldn't have improved 20lbs, when connections were confident that he had. He fit all the trends, and he was priced accordingly. He was beaten 3l by straw bear despite being hampered, and making his ground up too quickly. I dont know if you have watched the Supreme. I'm guessing not. Connections backed him to win fortunes, and caused his his price to contract as well as the lack of viable each way alternatives who were exposed as not being good enough. All the elements are factored into his price. Connections didnt think he would win but he wouldn't be far away.

So, if Kauto Star wins doing handstands tomorrow, he will still be a bad bet at 7/4 as he wasnt likely to stay and cant jump. He is 7/4 because there is a possibility that he wont stay and cant jump round. You take the cahnce at hte odds. Its what value is all about. COnnections were happy to think Sublimity had improved that amount. You didnt. They were right, you were wrong. Live and learn.

Also, the soft ground...he beat horses like Cairdeas, Tolpuddle, Acropolis (when he was decent) over 10f at Curragh on sfot ground. Soft ground which was more like the Somme. Knee action, the way he ate the hill at Naas when winning his trial. While he hasnt needed to show it on soft ground, connections were reportedly delighted when it was forecasted heavy.

Morgans

A further update on Sublimity's plans and another hint towards ground preference from the Racing Post.

Carr said: "The Scottish Champion Hurdle was the first thing that came into my head when I was asked about possible plans after he won on Tuesday.

"We'll decide what we're going to do in about ten days, but the ACC Bank Champion at Punchestown is probably a bit more likely than going to Ayr, although a lot would depend on the ground. He wouldn't run if it got any way fast."

Colonel Sanders

grand, maybe connections knew he was the next istabraq but to the general public (myself included) on all known form 16s was bad value, my last contribution to this thread end of story

Morgans

He didn't need to be the next Istabraq to win, the RPR handicapper has him 6lbs inferior to Istabraq's 2000 win, however, he rates him the as good as Rooster Booster and Hardy Eustace.

I wouldnt underestimate the horse, although i do think he needs time between his races, and he might not have the fast pace that sees him at his best. Not many horses travel on the heels of Brave Inca and Hardy Eustace like that, and have enough power to get clear of them, without getting into a fight.

I have to admit that I find the "end of story" attitude funny.

knighted

Colonel Sanders wrote:

grand, maybe connections knew he was the next istabraq but to the general public (myself included) on all known form 16s was bad value, my last contribution to this thread end of story

what i would suggest to any member of the general public is to take a trip down to the mile start on the curragh and the old vic gallop b4 these big festivals cause this is where the majority of these horses can be found doing preparations and gauge them for urself -lot of talk on here about finding 20lbs and official ratings etc -have a look at the horses in training and see if u can gauge the ratings urself -this should sort the men from the boys -

in my opinion we not helping each other by attacking each other -logical posts and informed opinion is whats needed -if u dont know something ask someone thats how knowledge is spread

on sublimity -i was sweet on it all along -i backed at a few prices which averaged out at 55s -i laid off at 20s-would i have went in large at 16s? probably not -i think all of u have valid points just the communication of these need to be sorted out -

roll on punchestown festival

terry mac

"In my opinion" Sublimity was too short prior to Champion Hurdle. Looking at a horse that had only won 2 from 5 over hurdles, and those 2 being a maiden and a poor race in Navan the form hardly inspired confidence. However if Sublimity had won just one more hurdle race this year he may have turned a few more heads. Plenty of horses have shown dramatically improved form a season on, but you'd like them to confirm this a few times before you back them - Rooster Booster, Harchibald, Macs Joy etc.

Fair play to everyone who backed him. Delighted to see owners who really appreciate a victory like that, jumping around and going mad in the parade ring as opposed to the Graham Wylies of this world who just smile and say how great it is. Not sure on the trainer though, hope he runs him against the other top horses at Punchestown, why bother going for the Ebor when there are plenty of top hurdle races to be won!!!!

knighted

yes ur right -why waste a good horse in micky mouse contests -might be the excitement of it all that they nominate races -they should dtep back and look at the races that a horse of his mark should be running in and have a long term target again -if they try to mop up every on the flat what chance do they have of keeping the horse interested to win another champion hurdle -he could very well be the next istabraq

Sublimity

Time did tell..... blew them away.... as he will next year...

Wexford, you're an idiot.

fade2black

Sublimity. You're banned.

knighted

u must know who sublimity is now fade ?

tell ur daddy well done and dont waste ur time going flat racing or im not backing him next year -istabraq never went back to the flat