Are Everton a 'small' club?

super_furry

Rafa Benitez has caused a bit of a stir by calling them 'one of the smaller clubs', but honestly I think they are. They've struggled on the pitch for the best part of 15 years now, with really only an FA Cup win to their name. They've had more relegation fights than European chases and I think would be unable to still consider themselves as one of the Premierships big teams.

jesus_thats_gre

Considering his english is merely so so, I would assume he didn't mean it in a derogatory sense. Most clubs, besides Chelsea, United and Arsenal and even them sometimes, go to Anfield only to defend. I think he was putting Everton in that bracket.

mike65

I thought he said like a smaller club, ie they came for a hopeful draw instead of a full-on performance like say Man Utd or Arsenal would.

Mike.

applehunter

Say that to an Evertonian!

I would consider them a top 10 team!

aidan24326

With home crowds of circa 40K and a reasonable amount of past success (2 title wins in the eighties, cup winners cup etc.) I don't think they could be classed as a small club. They had a bad run in the nineties but have improved considerably since Moyes took over. I believe they are one of (if not the) longest-surviving members of the top division having not been relegated in donkeys years (though they might have Hans Segers to thank for that )

ciaran76

I think Rafa was just trying to deflect attention away from his strikers not scoring and the money he has spent on them!

But Everton did go there for the draw I think and the game wasn't the best either.

bucks73

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

Considering his english is merely so so, I would assume he didn't mean it in a derogatory sense. Most clubs, besides Chelsea, United and Arsenal and even them sometimes, go to Anfield only to defend. I think he was putting Everton in that bracket.

I agree. I think he just meant a club outside the top 4 sides in the league. Just a poor choice or words.

mike65

He's Spanish!

Mike.

Little-Devil

We all know Everton are not as BIG a club as liverpool and probably never will be, but i think you could put them in the top 10. I think Rafa was expecting 3points and if you ask me it was souer grapes. They didn't do enough to try and win the game and they didn't create many chances, just knocking long balls forward to the stocking Crouch so what does he expect. Also he played 3 strikers, maybe there not good enough. I'd have expected more from BELLAMY this season myself

thebaz

mike65 wrote:

I thought he said like a smaller club, ie they came for a hopeful draw instead of a full-on performance like say Man Utd or Arsenal would.

Mike.

As an Evertonian , I agree , and the fact is we have slipped out of the Big 5 status , we had in the mid eighties when i started supporting them . Sometimes , we have a bit of a chip on our shoulder about our decline, Moyes has produced a miracle with a limited budget , but the quality of football from the legendary school of science is more on par with Bolton and Watford (boring & unattractive) , thats just a fact -- i wish we were more adventurous and attack minded , but the beautifull game is not a priority to Moyes , but i suppose when was the last time we were relegated ? it wont be soon, under Moyes.

Jazzy

they arent a "small club" but I still think the idea of half of merseyside being all wound up is hilarious

if ever there was a time for calming down

PHB

I think Rafa was just trying to deflect attention away from his strikers not scoring and the money he has spent on them!

I agree, perhaps Rafa is finally adjusting to parts of the English game, specifically the press

Mossy Monk

i think it is all kind of hillarious

event

its ironic how he is saying that they played for teh draw

yet, if memory serves correct, did liverpool not do the same think to Juve a few years back when they won the champs league?

mike65

They did, having won the first leg though.

Mike.

super_furry

event wrote:

its ironic how he is saying that they played for teh draw

yet, if memory serves correct, did liverpool not do the same think to Juve a few years back when they won the champs league?

There's a slight difference in playing for a draw in a two-legged Champions League affair when you're leading from the first leg, than playing for a draw in a league game.

Bateman

Mountain out of a molehill if you ask me? Tags such as "small club" don't matter to Reading, do they? I agree it was probably sour grapes on Betinez' part, but for Everton fans to get wound up kind of reinforces what was said.

super_furry

Bateman wrote:

Mountain out of a molehill if you ask me? Tags such as "small club" don't matter to Reading, do they? I agree it was probably sour grapes on Betinez' part, but for Everton fans to get wound up kind of reinforces what was said.

Exactly. The fact they released an official press statement rebuting Benitez's comment only add weight to the 'small club' tag.

Ping Chow Chi

mike65 wrote:

I thought he said like a smaller club, ie they came for a hopeful draw instead of a full-on performance like say Man Utd or Arsenal would.

Mike.

he was priased as a tactical genius when he played for draws at Juve and Chelski on the way to the Euro Cup. I guess they where playing like a 'smaller club' then

but my take is, it is liverpools local rivals and he weillnever lose any points with the fans for having a pop at them

event

super_furry wrote:

There's a slight difference in playing for a draw in a two-legged Champions League affair when you're leading from the first leg, than playing for a draw in a league game.

why though?

moyes decided that they would look for a draw
he looked at his team and perhaps knew that if they went out and attacked liverpool, they could get caught on the break a lot. With 3 up front, they could tear them apart.

he played for the draw. When you are at home, its up to you to open them up.
When it was at goodison, he went for it and beat them 3-0.

Its sour grapes really,

aidan24326

event wrote:

moyes decided that they would look for a draw
he looked at his team and perhaps knew that if they went out and attacked liverpool, they could get caught on the break a lot. With 3 up front, they could tear them apart.

he played for the draw. When you are at home, its up to you to open them up.
When it was at goodison, he went for it and beat them 3-0.

Its sour grapes really,

True. The onus was on Liverpool to go out and attack and beat the supposed 'smaller' club. Moyes has done a good job in turning Everton around after the a bad period over 10 years or so. But I'd agree with 'thebaz' that Everton won't win any awards for their style. I know another Everton fan who wishes they would be a bit more adventurous, Moyes being obsessed with a negative 4-5-1 setup and avoiding defeat, even at Goodison sometimes.

jesus_thats_gre

ciaran76 wrote:

I think Rafa was just trying to deflect attention away from his strikers not scoring and the money he has spent on them!

But Everton did go there for the draw I think and the game wasn't the best either.

He has spent the guts of 24 million on the 4 strikers that played yesterday.

How much have United, Chelsea or United spent?

Jazzy

PHB wrote:

I agree, perhaps Rafa is finally adjusting to parts of the English game, specifically the press

the combined total of PL goals scored by pool's main 3 strikers (Crouch, Kuyt & Bellamy) is 19.
the combined total of PL goals scored by Man Utd's main 3 strikers (Rooney, Saha & Solskjaer) is 24.

the combined total price of Kuyt, Bellamy & Crouch is £24m.... isnt that less then what was paid by Utd. for young Mr. Rooney ?

Savman

Simple answer is "No" - Everton would not be considered a small club. They'd be along the lines of Villa, Newcastle, Spurs, Chelsea pre-Abramovich, Man City etc.

The smaller clubs of the premiership would refer to Fulham (Craven Cottage and Dalymount park are not a million miles away from each other), Wigan (good backing but poorly supported) and any of those teams with a small stadium and small travelling support. I know that Fulham have almost no support away from home, when they come to Villa Park the away fans section is opened up to home fans. Weird.

ciaran76

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

He has spent the guts of 24 million on the 4 strikers that played yesterday.

How much have United, Chelsea or United spent?

Haven't Liverpool outspent every club bar Chelsea in the last 3 years ?

el rabitos

fupp sake, talk about the media machine kicking into gear and stiring the pot.

rafa said they were a "smaller team", ie smaller than liverpool. was he right? of course he was ffs. in every measurable way in football liverpool are a superior club to everton

are everton in themselves a "small club", of course not, they have a succesfull history, their well supported, have a fine stadium that they fill and have a good squad.

rafa was obviosly frustrated that they parked the bus yesterday, but thats it. it was hardly an "attack" on everton

Pepe LeFrits

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

He has spent the guts of 24 million on the 4 strikers that played yesterday.

How much have United, Chelsea or United spent?

Manchester, Newcastle or Leeds?

Carcharodon

I think the definition of "small club" is what is up for debate, Everton are obviously not a small club, big stadium, good following, reasonable past success and consistent in English league over the years.
They may however be "small" in respect to recent success and future success, they have not competed with the big boys for a long time and doesn't look like that will change anytime soon.
Compard with Liverpool they are small, teams in the lower divisions may be bigger than Everton but struggling at the moment, footballing wise.

Its funny to see them release a statement about it, in a way they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing that.

jesus_thats_gre

ciaran76 wrote:

Haven't Liverpool outspent every club bar Chelsea in the last 3 years ?

In the last 3 years? I would doubt it to be honest. During the Houllier years we easily spent on par with the biggest spenders.

If we did outspend everyone bar Chelsea it would also be for different quality players. Rafa came in and pretty much got rid of 15 players straight away just 3 years ago. He replaced them with players that cost 5 or so million each to create a half decent squad with some depth. During the same period, a pretty settled United were spending 30 million on Rooney and 18 million on Carrick and Chelseas were - well you know. Arsenal are also in similar position to United where they have a very stable squad with 1 or 2 quality players being brought in for decent money to improve the first team.

That is not meant as an excuse. Hope you get my point

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

He has spent the guts of 24 million on the 4 strikers that played yesterday.

How much have United, Chelsea or United spent?

Remember the context of how this point was made. I am pretty confident that Rafa did not purposely set out to call Everton a small club in order to deflect attention from the strikers that he has bought not being able to finish.

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

Manchester, Newcastle or Leeds?

*#@$

RasTa

£30 million for Rooney was a bargain

When was the last time Liverpool bought a world class player?

el rabitos

RasTa wrote:

£30 million for Rooney was a bargain

When was the last time Liverpool bought a world class player?

couple of years ago, xabi alonso

RasTa

el rabitos wrote:

couple of years ago, xabi alonso

Meh.

Third_Echelon

I think his statement was slightly taken out of context from what i've read. I haven't heard him actually say it in a video or audio interview... I reckon its more a case of 'lost in translation'.

I reckon it was also out of frustration. Everton didn't let them play their game and have their own way. Not bad for a "small club" to take 4 points and 3 goals from them this season....

As for Everton being a small club, anyone with a decent football knowledge will class that as rubbish. They are a club with a long and proud tradition in the english league. They were one of the founding members of the league.

They were relegated twice in their history in 1931 and 1951 and have been in the top flight ever since. Arsenal currently are the only team never to have been relegated but they have been around 15 years less than everton....

As one of the other posters mentioned they have been in top flight football for 104 seasons. More than any other club in england. Also the first club to break the 100 seasons record in top flight footy.

9 league championships, 7 times league runners up, 5 FA cups wins, 7 times FA cup runners up, European Cup Winners Cup in 1985. Don't tell me that is the history of a small club.....

The 90's were a bad period for Everton. The wrong people were in the boardroom at the time where we should have been investing in the club on the back of the 80's success, there was the exact opposite. An idiot of a chairman, and that's where it all started to go bad.

Since moyes has been at the helm he has brought stability and confidence back to the club. His tactics are mostly conservative, but he has the right idea. We have to build ourselves back up and not over-spend etc on random players (look at leeds). He has got rid of a lot of average players and is building a good squad of players. Buys such as Arteta, Cahill, Lescott, Yobo, Johnson have all been great buys. Young players with great careers ahead of them and Moyes is trying to make sure that their future is with Everton...

Pepe LeFrits

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

*#@$

I'm hurt!

jesus_thats_gre

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

I'm hurt!

I very doubt there is much I could say to hurt you but I want to say more than that lol

thebaz

Now Carsley is re-igniting it again , saying he feals insulted -- get over it -- dragging it out and making it into a big deal , is the behaviour of a small club -- it amazes me at times the way we can get so easily offended by the actions of other clubs !

Bluetonic

thebaz wrote:

Now Carsley is re-igniting it again

The interview with Carsley was done on Sunday - 24 hours after the match. It's the press that are re-igniting it not Carsley, there is a difference.

Bluetonic

Phewwwww

Spain's national coach has reassured Mikel Arteta the midfielder does not have to leave Everton to fulfill his international ambitions.

The Blues' playmaker has not yet made the step up to the senior international stage despite emerging as one of the Premiership's most consistent midfield performers since his arrival at Everton from Real Sociedad in January 2005.

There was widespread speculation he would earn a call up to Luis Aragones' squad for this week's friendly with England at Old Trafford but, yet again, Arteta was disappointed.

It left the midfielder to suggest he was not being considered because he does not play in Spain or for one of England's Champions League regulars.

But Aragones insists the 24-year-old is in his thoughts and that he does not have to leave Everton to try and force his way into the international set-up.

Aragones said: “I think what will be good for Mikel, for Everton and for Spain is for him to keep playing in the same form that he is at the moment.

“I have been watching his progress from over in Spain and I know that he is doing well. His form has been very good.

“But Mikel is slightly unfortunate. He is in a very difficult position as there are so many good central midfielders battling for a place.”

Although he faces competition with Liverpool's Xabi Alonso, Arsenal's Cesc Fabregas and Barcelona's Xavi, Aragones admits Arteta is very close to getting the chance to show what he can do.

And playing for a club with such a rich tradition as Everton has not gone unnoticed by the Spanish boss.

He continues: "He must keep improving. I think he knows this. But he is at a good club. Everton are a big club, a massive club. There is no doubt about that. They have won lots of titles.

“I have a good friend in Spain who is an Everton fan and he is always telling me about them. Liverpool is a proud football city but whenever it comes to a choice in my affections, I choose Everton.

“On average, every year you get between four and five players breaking into the squad. Of course, I will always look to pick the players who are in form.”

http://www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/aragones-hails-arteta-and-blues.html?page=full

Chardee MacDennis

to answer the original question - yes, yes they are.

that is all...

spockety

super_furry wrote:

Exactly. The fact they released an official press statement rebuting Benitez's comment only add weight to the 'small club' tag.

As if there wasn't already enough weight to the argument by the fact that they did an official DVD release of the 3-0 from earlier in the season... sad!